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[SonicXtreme]

bonedrake is such fucking hype for wild reno/raza/kaz/hero dragon priest. that deck is going to be super cancer (well that and nzoth variant, but the dragon version has always been more fun since games are more varied)

also I forgot renomage cos im sick af of mages, despite the best hero card I think reno mage and priest will still be better than warlock overall but we'll see

 

[Mulgrok]

go 0-12 trying to get a jade rogue to work

say "fuck it" and make pirate aggro rogue deck

go 12-0

this is the meta

 

[gutshot]

Thanks for your hard work gutshot, going to fill it out now.

No problem!

The only thing I didn't do was find a way to get the DK hero powers on there somewhere. I couldn't find a clean image of them anywhere and cutting them out from screencaps was just going to take too long. I wanted to get it done ASAP since we only have a couple days until the expansion goes live. Hopefully everyone here already knows the hero powers or, if not, will look them up.

Oh, and here is the response spreadsheet, which should update in real time as the ratings come in: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LLHGCAPCvMjlzw3bXx8emy87nYm7v2s17d1igF2Cf7M/edit?usp=sharing

 

[scarlet]

No problem!

The only thing I didn't do was find a way to get the DK hero powers on there somewhere. I couldn't find a clean image of them anywhere and cutting them out from screencaps was just going to take too long. I wanted to get it done ASAP since we only have a couple days until the expansion goes live. Hopefully everyone here already knows the hero powers or, if not, will look them up.

Oh, and here is the response spreadsheet, which should update in real time as the ratings come in: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LLHGCAPCvMjlzw3bXx8emy87nYm7v2s17d1igF2Cf7M/edit?usp=sharing

Do we have scoring standard?

Like 1 is totally unplayable, 2 might see play or something like that

 

[gutshot]

Do we have scoring standard?

Like 1 is totally unplayable, 2 might see play or something like that

Yeah, the scoring scale is described on the first page of the rating form. Quote my post above for a link to it (want to keep it hidden from lurkers and banned users). You don't add your scores to the spreadsheet directly btw.

 

[scarlet]

Yeah, the scoring scale is described on the first page of the rating form. Quote my post above for a link to it (want to keep it hidden from lurkers and banned users). You don't add your scores to the spreadsheet directly btw.

Noted! Will try after work!

 

[Pooya]

skelemancer is easily 4/5, don't sleep on that card. think about it for a second, you will realize.

1/5 ratings are baffling.

I don't know how to guldan really, yeah the card is crazy good in wild but it's nearly worthless in standard, it's clearly a card that is strong in its core but the support is completely nonexistent in standard. I rated it 3 but it's not really 3, it's like 2 in standard, 4 in wild so it averages out! lol. It can be good in future standard I guess.

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

I have 1 year being here and I haven't seen that complain.

I still bitch about it every now and then. Fucking awful card.... until I play it

 

[thekillermuffin]

Card rating spreadsheet is ready! Quote to reveal link.

Thanks, filled out!

 

[cartographer]

Went ahead and preordered with WoW gold. I could have done with Un'goro I guess but I was pretty down on the game after Shamanstone -> Shamanstone & Dragon Warrior -> Pirate Warrior. Un'goro brought some bullshit that needs to be packed into a rocket and shot into the sun (hi Primordial glyph) but other than a fairly polarized meta it's been fun.

 

[Htown]

Does this break the game? Would need to hit 3 pieces with emperor to do in one turn but theoretically this goes infinite?

I guess it could in theory. Seems a lot of trouble to go to when you can just drop a twisting nether.

 

[A Pretty Panda]

skelemancer is easily 4/5, don't sleep on that card. think about it for a second, you will realize.

1/5 ratings are baffling.

I think I gave that to all "do something when you die on the opponent's turn" cards. Now that you mention it this could be pretty ok in Paladin since you could Steed it.

 

[SonicXtreme]

how do u fill this survey out, it says view only?

 

[Pooya]

The more I think about it, the more I like Skelemancer, if I could go back I would rate it 5/5 even.

Why?

It's absurdly sticky, it's the stickiest minion you can possibly play on 5 or really any mana cost in standard honestly. It's very good in midrange paladin deck because basically your opponent doesn't want to kill it so you have a great target for steed on 6.

But that's not all, playing this on 5, protects your board against board clears, you don't want to brawl anymore, it's extremely annoying.

One of the defining cards in the meta right now is Primordial Drake. It's a card that you can easily tell if it's in hand or not and whether it's coming down next turn, well you play this, you completely deny it.

It comes back with N'Zoth, duh!

I don't know if it's going to be as effective in other classes but Bonemare is good and this is like the best target for it as no one wants to kill this. Minion oriented decks will want to have both.

People might want to start running silence, that is all. Sure priest can punish this with potion, they won't get an 8/8 but they still killed your 5 drop with a one mana card, you can be smart about it though and play it at the right time. Overall if priest wants to dumpster paladin they can run all kind of dumb cards like the new 6 cost spell, cabal or whatever, that doesn't change anything, they're still good cards every where else.

 

[Yaboosh]

The more I think about it, the more I like Skelemancer, if I could go back I would rate it 5/5 even.

Why?

It's absurdly sticky, it's the stickiest minion you can possibly play on 5 or really any mana cost in standard honestly. It's very good in midrange paladin deck because basically your opponent doesn't want to kill it so you have a great target for steed on 6.

But that's not all, playing this on 5, protects your board against board clears, you don't want to brawl anymore, it's extremely annoying.

One of the defining cards in the meta right now is Primordial Drake. It's a card that you can easily tell if it's in hand or not and whether it's coming down next turn, well you play this, you completely deny it.

I don't know if it's going to be as effective in other classes but Bonemare is good and this is like the best target for it as no one want to kill this.

People might want to start running silence, that is all. Sure priest can punish this with potion, they won't get an 8/8 but they still killed your 5 drop with a one mana card, you can be smart about though and play it at the right time. Overall if priest want to dumpster paladin they can run all kind of cards that can, that doesn't change anything.

You could have made these arguments before i rated it without putting any thought into it.

 

[BananasWithGuns]

how do u fill this survey out, it says view only?

Quote the post before that. The actual rating is done through a survey.

 

[SonicXtreme]

ah ic. does druid of swarm become beast like most other transform cards?

 

[fertygo]

I think Bolvar is underrated, I changed my mind after realizing he also has Divine Shield

he really hard to kill without hard removal

he may see more play than the DK tbh

 

[FormallyFamicom]

Always happy to contribute my shitty picks to the GAF card polls. Gave out a lot more 1s this time over Un'goro but I think I like this set more because at least the bad cards have interesting effects.

Spoiler

Fess up, who gave the Penguin 5/5

 

[wiibomb]

Bolvar is a 4 at least, imo

 

[Pooya]

Bolvar is another good target for steed, I think I rated it 3, I don't remember, I think it's probably 4 too. It's not hard to make it to 5 attack. Yeah the card is probably a lot better when people actually play it. Sticky minions are powerful in paladin. I can't see what I rated.

It's just that when I saw all the cards my opinion changed on a bunch of them. Like Sindragosa, I was down on it at first and thought maybe it has some potential in future but now that we've seen Lich King, why would you ever play Sindragosa? It's like a 2/5 card now instead of maybe 3 that was before. Similarly some of the cards that didn't look that much useful are a lot better now. Another sleeper hit I think is the divine spelldamage guy, that card is not just a better kobold, that has a lot of implications. I think people will play that in warlock.

 

[fertygo]

Also I'm still not sold on DK Valeera.. I still can't put it in my mind how this card gonna help you progress in winning a game

ok, you set up 1 turn ice block with 9 mana? then you do what to win the game from there?

there's prolly some broke ass reliable gameplan with the card, but we not see that yet

 

[f0lken]

Also I'm still not sold on DK Valeera.. I still can't put it in my mind how this card gonna help you progress in winning a game

ok, you set up 1 turn ice block with 9 mana? then you do what to win the game from there?

there's prolly some broke ass reliable gameplan with the card, but we not see that yet

Bluegil warrior + coold blood + cold blood + cold blood copied + faceles manipulator = 28 Damage

 

[wiibomb]

Bolvar is another good target for steed, I think I rated it 3, I don't remember, I think it's probably 4 too. It's not hard to make it to 5 attack. Yeah the card is probably a lot better when people actually play it. Sticky minions are powerful in paladin. I can't see what I rated.

to kill bolvar you either need a lot of damage or an special effect; with that 7 health and it still has divine shield, taking out the obvious cases where it can die to hard removal, it is still a pretty damn sticky minion.

Also, very very good on spikeridge steed, as well as other buffs, which make the card outstandingly sticky without a hard removal.

Also, damn that entrance is glorious

 

[SonicXtreme]

the more i think about it, i think death knight rexxar is a pita to build around, but if you build it well, honestly since you can customize the beast you could start using it whenever you got it, since even 7 mana will at least be something playable and will help when you have dead late game hunter draws. also if you limit your deck to real quality hunter cards the discover a copy card really helps with draw, i think that will be better than ppl realize. corpsewidow is a no brainer since late game can often drop 5 mana deathrattle beast you build same turn or that plus highmane and rat pack on same turn. assuming meta slow down enough. but i would use in wild deathrattle deck with nerubian eggs and such. ill make them work well somewhere

 

[Grief.exe]

Trump making a miracle rogue deck right now, says it could be one of the best decks of the expansion.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

The more I think about it, the more I like Skelemancer, if I could go back I would rate it 5/5 even.

Why?

It's absurdly sticky, it's the stickiest minion you can possibly play on 5 or really any mana cost in standard honestly. It's very good in midrange paladin deck because basically your opponent doesn't want to kill it so you have a great target for steed on 6.

But that's not all, playing this on 5, protects your board against board clears, you don't want to brawl anymore, it's extremely annoying.

One of the defining cards in the meta right now is Primordial Drake. It's a card that you can easily tell if it's in hand or not and whether it's coming down next turn, well you play this, you completely deny it.

It comes back with N'Zoth, duh!

I don't know if it's going to be as effective in other classes but Bonemare is good and this is like the best target for it as no one wants to kill this. Minion oriented decks will want to have both.

People might want to start running silence, that is all. Sure priest can punish this with potion, they won't get an 8/8 but they still killed your 5 drop with a one mana card, you can be smart about it though and play it at the right time. Overall if priest wants to dumpster paladin they can run all kind of dumb cards like the new 6 cost spell, cabal or whatever, that doesn't change anything, they're still good cards every where else.

On the other hand, playing a 2/2 for 5 that can't pressure the board in any shape, does nothing vs taunt, puts the ball in your opponents court to pop it and most importantly is when...

The card has potential but it doesn't build a body you really need to remove as the opponent and you can't trade either, or play your own primordial drake for that matter.

 

[wiibomb]

Trump making a miracle rogue deck right now, says it could be one of the best decks of the expansion.

trump said that priest would never see play in the ungoro meta. He also predicted that quest warlock would be one of the bests decks in that meta.

I lost my trust on trump. If only he would make much more reserved predictions instead of going all in with his ideas...

 

[Blizzard]

Well that was exhausting. Despite trying to go quickly it took about 2.5 hours to make it through all 135 cards. Thanks to the 3 random people (Breezy, not sure who the other 2 were) who showed up and made the last third way less boring! I overrated everything because I keep thinking about the perfect situation to use various cards, but I'm hoping talking through every card will help me deckbuild later on. Time to copy my ratings into the spreadsheet, thanks gutshot.


Overall feelings on the expansion: I really like that they're experimenting with mechanics, though I hope they won't drive people away. I understand concerns that the pirate/token aggro classes will still work well, though maybe the eventual gadgetzan rotation will help. I think it's good for at least some aggro and midrange potential to exist though.

Think about it. If you lose in 4 minutes to a pirate warrior, you might feel that was random and RNG-based. But if fatigue decks become viable or high-tier, you could easily spend 25 minutes in a game, and THEN lose because of an RNG draw or effect. The punishment / reward is exactly the same in either case, but 25 minutes is a lot more draining and soul-crushing to me.

Also, even though some things probably still won't work (death knight hunter, warlock whatever), I think there's a lot of potential in various cards for the next expansions to flesh in as needed.

 

[Karsticles]

I wish Rogue for a Deathrattle tutor card. The only thing keeping me from making a full-blown Sherazin deck is his uncertainty.

Bluegil warrior + coold blood + cold blood + cold blood copied + faceles manipulator = 28 Damage

Don't forget to ping face for 1!

Trump making a miracle rogue deck right now, says it could be one of the best decks of the expansion.

Damn, I thought Rogue was going to do better in this expansion.

On the other hand, playing a 2/2 for 5 that can't pressure the board in any shape, does nothing vs taunt, puts the ball in your opponents court to pop it and most importantly is when...

The card has potential but it doesn't build a body you really need to remove as the opponent and you can't trade either, or play your own primordial drake for that matter.

It has the Big Bad Wolf problem.

 

[fertygo]

Bluegil warrior + coold blood + cold blood + cold blood copied + faceles manipulator = 28 Damage

Which part of this is "reliable"

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Which part of this is "reliable"

The part where auctioneer draws all those cards like every other rogue deck?

 

[Grief.exe]

trump said that priest would never see play in the ungoro meta. He also predicted that quest warlock would be one of the bests decks in that meta.

I lost my trust on trump. If only he would make much more reserved predictions instead of going all in with his ideas...

Damn, I thought Rogue was going to do better in this expansion.

lol no respect for Trump.

 

[bunbun777]

Looks like skelemancer has the most variance so far. Interested to see if it actually gets used.

 

[ZealousD]

Thanks for everybody who came to our card review stream. We will get to the neutrals tomorrow, hopefully. However we will probably start a bit later.

Twitch Archive: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/165249340

I'll post the YouTube when I can.

 

[fertygo]

The part where auctioneer draws all those cards like every other rogue deck?

Why this better than outtempo plan than current miracoli already run with Auctioneer then?

Why DK Valeera help the gameplan progress more smoother?

 

[Dart]

Well that was exhausting. Despite trying to go quickly it took about 2.5 hours to make it through all 135 cards. Thanks to the 3 random people (Breezy, not sure who the other 2 were) who showed up and made the last third way less boring! I overrated everything because I keep thinking about the perfect situation to use various cards, but I'm hoping talking through every card will help me deckbuild later on. Time to copy my ratings into the spreadsheet, thanks gutshot.

Great stream, it was nice to take a look at each card individually. More or less watched your stream to go over the entire set. I have an idea now of what I want to craft. Enjoyed the Skyrim music too

 

[Pooya]

On the other hand, playing a 2/2 for 5 that can't pressure the board in any shape, does nothing vs taunt, puts the ball in your opponents court to pop it and most importantly is when...

The card has potential but it doesn't build a body you really need to remove as the opponent and you can't trade either, or play your own primordial drake for that matter.

They can't ignore it when you buff it, you don't play it elsewhere and you don't trade with it ever when it's a 2/2. It's very doable in a mid range/token style deck. There are 2 good buffs for this now, steed and bonemare too so it has the support.

If people start running sap and silence again I think that's admitting that the card is powerful.

Why this better than outtempo plan than current miracoli already run with Auctioneer then?

Why DK Valeera help the gameplan progress more smoother?

Why? because currently your threats are easily dealt with and you lose. All it takes to beat a miracle is that you shadow vision into deaths plus drawing one of them. It's not very good at beating control at all. Control paladin completely dumpsters it. These are the decks you want to beat with rogue and you're like slightly favored at best. The deck has sub 50 winrate against most decks. The card also beats mage and burn plan. That's good enough reason to play it.

 

[SonicXtreme]

i think brrrrlloc is pretty nice actually. curves very well into protecting 1 drop for coldlight seer or warleader play, good at getting bodies on the board esp in wild for everyfin is awesome.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Why this better than outtempo plan than current miracoli already run with Auctioneer then?

Why DK Valeera help the gameplan progress more smoother?

Well you for sure live for an extra turn unless you're so dead you die to aoe. And the DK helps outside of the combo, but you are adding 8 damage to that kind of combo, or even if you're just pressuring with spells like eviscerate you're adding additional damage per turn without cost of additional cards.

It's sorta like head crack, but good. And it works with head crack, you can get 3 headcracks a turn going lol

They can't ignore it when you buff it, you don't play it elsewhere and you don't trade with it ever when it's a 2/2. It's very doable in a mid range/token style deck. There are 2 good buffs for this now, steed and bonemare too so it has the support.

If people start running sap and silence again I think that's admitting that the card is powerful.

You want to land buffs on things with high health to really take advantage of them.

I disagree about sap/silence, there are plenty of reasons to run those cards aside from this 5 drop that doesn't pressure. It reminds me of devilsaur egg but with a slightly less useless front end body but you can't really take advantage of it either. It's in an odd place.

 

[Cat Party]

I gave Ultimate Infestation 5 but it's probably going to end up being the most overrated card. I think drawing 5 will end up being a drawback in the long run, and the 5 damage won't be enough given the huge minions that are going to be on the board by turn 10.

Moorabi, Bolvar, and Lillian Voss are underrated right now, IMO. There are powerful uses for each. Bolvar especially, because I don't think people realize that he is already a 3/7 once he loses his shield. Divine Shield is a powerful mechanic and there are a lot of underused cards that have it.

 

[Pooya]

You want to land buffs on things with high health to really take advantage of them.

I disagree about sap/silence, there are plenty of reasons to run those cards aside from this 5 drop that doesn't pressure. It reminds me of devilsaur egg but with a slightly less useless front end body but you can't really take advantage of it either. It's in an odd place.

Guess what, it has a lot of health, there is an 8/8 in there. It pressures by the way of your other minions. Just imagine it's loatheb on 5. Your murlocs suddenly have much more protection and it's an ongoing protection for turns to come.

 

[Dahbomb]

Rogue legit got a lot of dumpster cards. The DK is nice at least.

 

[zoukka]

They can't ignore it when you buff it, you don't play it elsewhere and you don't trade with it ever when it's a 2/2. It's very doable in a mid range/token style deck. There are 2 good buffs for this now, steed and bonemare too so it has the support.

If people start running sap and silence again I think that's admitting that the card is powerful.

Almost all cards that give initiative to opponent have been shit in HS. An 8/8 is a strong effect but again, if your opponent decides when it pops, it's not that hard to deal with.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Guess what, it has a lot of health, there is an 8/8 in there. It pressures by the way of your other minions. Just imagine it's loatheb on 5. Your murlocs suddenly have much more protection and it's an ongoing protection for turns to come.

There is an 8/8 in there only if your opponent removes it. Or you can just play an actual 8/8.

Rogue legit got a lot of dumpster cards. The DK is nice at least.

I think rogue got a nice diverse set of cards, most playable imo. I think lilian voss will be underrated too. I was buying a bit into leeching poison too as they've added a lot of support for weapon based decks outside of pirate focused decks.

I think shadowblade and doomerang is real nice synergy, as is doomerang with obsidian shard if you get the cost reduced to 0. Doomerang also applies weapon poisons, which is confirmed and according to text (like betrayal).

 

[Pooya]

We'll see a bout skelemancer, it doesn't give initiate to your opponent, you play this in a deck that's all about board control. They ignore it, you punish by taunting it up.

Doomerang is not going to be any good. Running weapons in rogue is already sketchy, how many weapons you have to play for doomrang to be worth it? That card is like slightly better than savagery. Actually savagery has many more and better activators now. This is probably the most overrated card there.

The idea is that it works with envenom? I don't know, how many hard removal you want to run. Slayers just do the job clean and efficiently without running mediocre cards to combo with.

 

[Blizzard]

I think the main takeaway from rogue is that they have some interesting cards and mechanics that have potential for an eventual weapon-based deck.

Maybe once 2 more expansions are added and Gadgetzan rotates out?

 

[fertygo]

Why? because currently your threats are easily dealt with and you lose. All it takes to beat a miracle is that you shadow vision into deaths plus drawing one of them. It's not very good at beating control at all. Control paladin completely dumpsters it. These are the decks you want to beat with rogue and you're like slightly favored at best. The deck has sub 50 winrate against most decks. The card also beats mage and burn plan. That's good enough reason to play it.

You made it sound like Priest can easily won against Rogue

no they not, in most of time you won because they cannot answer 2 threat at same time, actually most deck can't answer board with auctioneer + big rogue stuff, that how you runaway with rogue at t7-8, that's my question.. now instead doing that, this DK gonna help you change the gameplan? or the made up the deck is really flexible enough so you can win with the "old way" but this DK open up that limitation so if that not working you has another way of winning.. that part is what I'm questioning, I still can't picture how this DK win you games in flexible way.

 

[SonicXtreme]

tainted zealot is kinda nasty with defile, 4 guaranteed damage

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

We'll see a bout skelemancer, it doesn't give initiate to your opponent, you play this in a deck that's all about board control. They ignore it, you punish by taunting it up.

Doomerang is not going to be any good. Running weapons in rogue is already sketchy, how many weapons you have to play for doomrang to be worth it? That card is like slightly better than savagery. Actually savagery has many more and better activators now. This is probably the most overrated card there.

The idea is that it works with envenom? I don't know, how many hard removal you want to run. Slayers just do the job clean and efficiently without running mediocre cards to combo with.

Doomerang returns the weapon to your hand though.

Doomerang upsides:
no face damage taken
1 mana (auctioneer cycle, combo enabler)
poisons applied (imortant more for the fact that you can get usage out of each charge of the poison, or at least plan to)
returns weapon to hand for multiple battlecry uses and additional swings generated for weapons with more than 2 charges.

Shadowblade turn 3, remove something. Later (as soon as turn 4), you doomerang and replay the shadowblade for immunity again and remove something. I think it's real solid single target removal akin to arcane blast rather than something clunky like savagery.

Obsidian shard will return the weapon at cost reduced, so you can hit face twice, doomerang something, and equip for 3 more hits, getting you an additional 6 damage. 5 hits instead of 3.

Perdition's blade, similar to shadowblade but the 2 damage battlecry instead of immune. Maybe not good enough, although maybe it is dunno.

Maybe these 3 weapons aren't good enough yet? Can't say for sure. Maybe they're just 1 weapon better than perdition's blade away. Maybe assassin's blade is viable as it would get 7 hits potentially and with leeching poison that seems actually possible.