I'm still looking for someone to do it as friend challenge, people are getting the pack that way
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Hearthstone |OT9| Our raid wiped in Icecrown Citadel
- Thread starter ZealousD
- Start date
I'm still looking for someone to do it as friend challenge, people are getting the pack that way
Time for some theory crafts boys and girls:
Standard
Prince Keleth Zoolock
Pretty easy deck to make, throw in some of the newer cards that I think might be solid in a Zoo deck.
Kazakus-Lock (ie Highlander Handlock)
Probably not enough heals to make this viable.
Wild
Demonlock ft. Warlock Deathknight (non-Zoo variation)
There's no Jaraxxus in there because this deck has tons of midrange style threats anyway. And if you curve out you should win especially with a good Voidcaller. Deathknight for the late game win condition if you get there. Cut one of the early game demons if need be although if you are running a lot of early game Demons then Demonfire becomes a pretty good choice (or the other demon buff cards).
Demonlock Highlander variant (with Krul)
This deck ends up having enough space for Kabal Trafficker and it makes sense to have her in as well. This type of Krul deck may finally be playable after so long.
That new Warlock legendary not being a Legendary is a major buzzkill. I could've squeezed her in first Wild deck.
Standard
Prince Keleth Zoolock
Pretty easy deck to make, throw in some of the newer cards that I think might be solid in a Zoo deck.
Kazakus-Lock (ie Highlander Handlock)
Probably not enough heals to make this viable.
Wild
Demonlock ft. Warlock Deathknight (non-Zoo variation)
There's no Jaraxxus in there because this deck has tons of midrange style threats anyway. And if you curve out you should win especially with a good Voidcaller. Deathknight for the late game win condition if you get there. Cut one of the early game demons if need be although if you are running a lot of early game Demons then Demonfire becomes a pretty good choice (or the other demon buff cards).
Demonlock Highlander variant (with Krul)
This deck ends up having enough space for Kabal Trafficker and it makes sense to have her in as well. This type of Krul deck may finally be playable after so long.
That new Warlock legendary not being a Legendary is a major buzzkill. I could've squeezed her in first Wild deck.
I can help you with that this evening if you can't find someone earlier.
Not surprised tbh. The "you jackasses can't have a civil conversation about this" lock happens occasionally here as well and the moderation is a lot more strict here. Eloise mentioning not getting respected because she's a woman was guaranteed to draw out the neckbeard brigade.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
LOL
playing against a Shammy who has me on the run with a zooish deck of low cost cards, I had already blown my aoe
he has about 6 monsters out, he uses evolve
one of them transformed into Doomsayer. Then he conceded. It's great.
playing against a Shammy who has me on the run with a zooish deck of low cost cards, I had already blown my aoe
he has about 6 monsters out, he uses evolve
one of them transformed into Doomsayer. Then he conceded. It's great.
Karsticles
Member
You absolutely need Oozes and a Crawler in any Renolock deck. At least 1/4 of your match-up are Pirate Warrior. With Aggro Shaman and Egg Druid it approaches half.
I don't think Implosion is good. You don't want to resurrect a bunch of 1/1s that push out Mal'Ganis when you play the DK. I think you have to limit your demons so the DK ends the game. The winning play has to be Krul to board fill, and then DK if they wipe it, and they probably can't wipe your super strong board twice in a row.
Not a lot of taunts or heals, either.
Edit: WTF no Twisting Nether?!
That deck is the most popular deck on ladder I think.
trying again for opinions on my horrible Jade/Taunt Hadronox list
Jade Idol is basically Geist bait to make people waste turn 6 & blow up their cards. Taldaram is just because I know I'm getting a prince, so hey, if it's him I could put him here and save him for late game when the Crypt Lords & Jade Blossoms are gone. (Realistically he gets cut for something.)
0 Innervate × 2
1 Jade Idol × 1
2 Druid of the Swarm × 2
2 Loot Hoarder × 1
2 Wild Growth × 2
2 Wrath × 2
3 Crypt Lord × 2
3 Jade Blossom × 2
3 Prince Taldaram × 1
4 Strongshell Scavenger × 2
4 Swipe × 2
5 Spreading Plague × 2
6 Aya Blackpaw × 1
6 Jade Behemoth × 2
7 Malfurion the Pestilent × 1
8 The Lich King × 1
9 Hadronox × 1
10 Kun the Forgotten King ×1
10 Ultimate Infestation x2
Jade Idol is basically Geist bait to make people waste turn 6 & blow up their cards. Taldaram is just because I know I'm getting a prince, so hey, if it's him I could put him here and save him for late game when the Crypt Lords & Jade Blossoms are gone. (Realistically he gets cut for something.)
0 Innervate × 2
1 Jade Idol × 1
2 Druid of the Swarm × 2
2 Loot Hoarder × 1
2 Wild Growth × 2
2 Wrath × 2
3 Crypt Lord × 2
3 Jade Blossom × 2
3 Prince Taldaram × 1
4 Strongshell Scavenger × 2
4 Swipe × 2
5 Spreading Plague × 2
6 Aya Blackpaw × 1
6 Jade Behemoth × 2
7 Malfurion the Pestilent × 1
8 The Lich King × 1
9 Hadronox × 1
10 Kun the Forgotten King ×1
10 Ultimate Infestation x2
My top 5 underrated cards for the new expansion (like yeah yeah I know Bonemare and Skelemancer are potentially good, this is not about those cards that most people think are good):
*Acherus Veteran: I think a lot of people including myself kinda gleened over this card when they first saw it. They were probably "oh its like Abusive Sergeant but better stats and smaller battlecry, cool". Well a lot of people are not mentioning that the +1 attack is actually permanent which is significant enough to bring up. This is a really solid 1 drop aggressive card, which means someone is going to play the hell out of it in some deck.
*Bone Baron: Decent stats up front and adds 2 minions to your hand which is perfect for Handbuff Paladin which also uses Igneous Elementals and Firefly.
*Grim Necromancer: Another card that works well in Aggressive decks. People look at this card "oh it's kinda like Dragonling Mechanic, but that card sucks". That's true but two 1/1s are a lot better than 2/1 when you are playing an aggressive deck that wants to buff the board like Token Druid. This is a very playable card even in Constructed.
*Phantom Freebooter: Having a big weapon equipped as a Pirate Warrior is more common than one might think. A very common scenario is having a War Axe equipped with 1 charge, this is a 6/4 for 4 mana Pirate in that case. Any time you start having 2 or more charges equipped then this card starts to become kinda nuts for the cost and it will always be aggressively statted which is what you want in that deck anyway.
*Saronite Chain Gang: I think most people consider this a good to decent card but to me this looks like the Firefly/Tar Creeper/Stonehill Defender of the set ie. a very strong, bordering on power creep neutral minion. There are just so many applications for this card, I honestly thought about putting this card in my control Warlock decks too because why not? It generates two taunts on the floor. This card is also amazing in both Evolve Shaman and Handbuff Paladin, not to mention in aggressive decks like Zoo and Token Druid. This card has too many applications for it to not see play IMO.
I should definitely remove Implosion in those Demonlock deck but that deck purposely has very limited board clears and heals. That deck is playing for tempo and board control above anything else.. you can't afford to be wiping your own minions and having no board afterwards which makes Twisting Nether a bad option for that deck. A lot of heals and taunts are also anti tempo, I have Fellhound and Void Walker for taunts anyway and that's enough for a Midrange deck. It's not a control deck after all.
*Acherus Veteran: I think a lot of people including myself kinda gleened over this card when they first saw it. They were probably "oh its like Abusive Sergeant but better stats and smaller battlecry, cool". Well a lot of people are not mentioning that the +1 attack is actually permanent which is significant enough to bring up. This is a really solid 1 drop aggressive card, which means someone is going to play the hell out of it in some deck.
*Bone Baron: Decent stats up front and adds 2 minions to your hand which is perfect for Handbuff Paladin which also uses Igneous Elementals and Firefly.
*Grim Necromancer: Another card that works well in Aggressive decks. People look at this card "oh it's kinda like Dragonling Mechanic, but that card sucks". That's true but two 1/1s are a lot better than 2/1 when you are playing an aggressive deck that wants to buff the board like Token Druid. This is a very playable card even in Constructed.
*Phantom Freebooter: Having a big weapon equipped as a Pirate Warrior is more common than one might think. A very common scenario is having a War Axe equipped with 1 charge, this is a 6/4 for 4 mana Pirate in that case. Any time you start having 2 or more charges equipped then this card starts to become kinda nuts for the cost and it will always be aggressively statted which is what you want in that deck anyway.
*Saronite Chain Gang: I think most people consider this a good to decent card but to me this looks like the Firefly/Tar Creeper/Stonehill Defender of the set ie. a very strong, bordering on power creep neutral minion. There are just so many applications for this card, I honestly thought about putting this card in my control Warlock decks too because why not? It generates two taunts on the floor. This card is also amazing in both Evolve Shaman and Handbuff Paladin, not to mention in aggressive decks like Zoo and Token Druid. This card has too many applications for it to not see play IMO.
This is like a first draft so I am purposely missing tech options.
I should definitely remove Implosion in those Demonlock deck but that deck purposely has very limited board clears and heals. That deck is playing for tempo and board control above anything else.. you can't afford to be wiping your own minions and having no board afterwards which makes Twisting Nether a bad option for that deck. A lot of heals and taunts are also anti tempo, I have Fellhound and Void Walker for taunts anyway and that's enough for a Midrange deck. It's not a control deck after all.
Lone_Prodigy
Member
The odds are low but it does happen. That's why I try to play tokens/HP after evolve to minimize the odds. Most of the time a 1 drop becoming a 2 drop isn't a big deal.
I rated those respectively:
Acherus Veteran: 4
Bone Baron: 4
Grim Necromancer: 4
Phantom Freebooter: 4
Saronite Chain Gang: 5
No underrating here! Of course, I rated pretty much every other card a 4 as well, BUT STILL.
Not a lot of conversation around these cards, I just thought people thought they were OK cards and moved on.I rated those respectively:
Acherus Veteran: 4
Bone Baron: 4
Grim Necromancer: 4
Phantom Freebooter: 4
Saronite Chain Gang: 5
No underrating here! Of course, I rated pretty much every other card a 4 as well, BUT STILL.
Some of those cards are probably going to impact the game more than some of the DKs.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
When your reno mage opponent draws 2 renos before you draw a single Mysterious Challenger but you're equal on cards drawn. Variance.
What about overrated cards? I feel like Corpsetaker is getting way more hype than it deserves. Let's break down why it's probably not that great of a card.
-99% of the time you won't even get Windfury and even if you do, it's irrelevant on a defensive card such as this. So you may as well ignore that keyword.
-If you get only Divine Shield, congrats you just played a Silvermoon Guardian. Wow.
-If you get Divine Shield and Taunt, it's a little better. But how much better really? Tol'vir Stoneshaper, a 3/5 Taunt with Divine Shield, had a lot of hype prior to Un'goro as a great anti-aggro tool. And it got played a ton early on but ended up getting cut from most Elemental lists. Turns out Tar Creeper was good enough to stop early aggression. This is Tol'vir but minus 2 health. Meh.
-So best case scenario, you get Divine Shield, Taunt and Lifesteal. Great! It's Wickerflame with +1/+1 for 1 more mana. Is that super exciting? Wickerflame is a decent card, but not auto-include in all Paladin decks. Do you really need two more of them in your Control Paladin list? Especially one that is only another Wickerflame before you've drawn Wickerflame, which means you can't curve one into the other. And if you top deck this in the late game? You will be super sad.
Overall, I think it is an OK card (I rated it a 3) and one that will probably see a lot of experimentation early on. But will ultimately end up getting cut from most Paladin lists. And definitely won't see any play outside of Paladin. Feel free to put me on blast if I'm wrong.
-99% of the time you won't even get Windfury and even if you do, it's irrelevant on a defensive card such as this. So you may as well ignore that keyword.
-If you get only Divine Shield, congrats you just played a Silvermoon Guardian. Wow.
-If you get Divine Shield and Taunt, it's a little better. But how much better really? Tol'vir Stoneshaper, a 3/5 Taunt with Divine Shield, had a lot of hype prior to Un'goro as a great anti-aggro tool. And it got played a ton early on but ended up getting cut from most Elemental lists. Turns out Tar Creeper was good enough to stop early aggression. This is Tol'vir but minus 2 health. Meh.
-So best case scenario, you get Divine Shield, Taunt and Lifesteal. Great! It's Wickerflame with +1/+1 for 1 more mana. Is that super exciting? Wickerflame is a decent card, but not auto-include in all Paladin decks. Do you really need two more of them in your Control Paladin list? Especially one that is only another Wickerflame before you've drawn Wickerflame, which means you can't curve one into the other. And if you top deck this in the late game? You will be super sad.
Overall, I think it is an OK card (I rated it a 3) and one that will probably see a lot of experimentation early on. But will ultimately end up getting cut from most Paladin lists. And definitely won't see any play outside of Paladin. Feel free to put me on blast if I'm wrong.
It's kind of hard to score one's own ratings once the meta settles down already, but have we ever tried it after waiting an extra expansion? For some of the cards I imagine they may see more use once the NEXT expansion hits and/or Gadgetzan rotates out, but naturally we probably won't be rerating the entirety of Frozen Throne at that point.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
When you're building to survive early game so you can win late game with cards like DK paladin, a 4m 3/3 lifesteal, divine shield, taunt, is very good. And paladin has very few options for 4 drops.
Tol'vir breaks your elemental train, that's why it didn't get played.
veryslowhand
Banned
I wonder if the free legendary from the adventure resets the piti timer, maybe is better to stop opening packs right after a legend if thats the case.
Yeah I expect to see A LOT of Acherus Veteran in all the aggro decks this cycle. In Standard almost guaranteed, but I bet they show up in Wild too. Aggro Paladin would love the (permanent) face damage vs the extra +1 from Abusive Sergeant that goes away. So would Zoolock (and Zoo anything really).
I think this set has enough strong cheap cards that we might see Zoo lock make a return. In Wild if nothing else.
I think this set has enough strong cheap cards that we might see Zoo lock make a return. In Wild if nothing else.
Control Pally typically does not struggle to survive to the lategame. Their main weakness was they lacked a finisher.
And let's not forget that this is a conditional 4 mana 3/3 with Lifesteal, Divine Shield and Taunt. There will be more than a few times where you won't get the Lifesteal keyword at all, which makes the card slightly worse, and if you don't get Divine Shield, it's terribad.
That was definitely a part of it getting cut. But you could argue that issue is less relevant in a meta where all of the top-end Elementals aren't seeing play but Fireflys and Tar Creepers are still prevalent. Tol'vir seems like it would be a strong anti-aggro choice, but still sees no play. My contention is that is because Tar Creeper and, to a lesser degree, Stonehill are good enough early game taunts.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
tolvir also saw play in quest rogue for some time
SonicXtreme
Member
moorabi and rotface are so bad. idk how anyone give them > 1
BigJonsson
Member
When do the new packs go live?
SonicXtreme
Member
noon PST tmrw
I know right!
Seeing all the pros shit on it has made me feel a lot better. I thought I was taking crazy pills when so many people were trying to convince an 8 mana 4/6 with a bad to mediocre effect was a good card.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Were people from other websites calling it a good card? I don't remember seeing anyone here defend it as anything more than mediocre at best.
Trump's top 10 cards:
10. Bonemare
9. Corpsetaker
8. Valeera the Hollow
7. The Lich King
6. Uther of the Ebon Blade
5. Malfurion the Pestilent
4. Ultimate Infestaion
3. Forge of Souls
2. Blood Razor
1. Righteous Protector
Honorable Mentions (good cards in bad classes):
Defile
Deathstalker Rexxar "best card of the set if not Hunter"
10. Bonemare
9. Corpsetaker
8. Valeera the Hollow
7. The Lich King
6. Uther of the Ebon Blade
5. Malfurion the Pestilent
4. Ultimate Infestaion
3. Forge of Souls
2. Blood Razor
1. Righteous Protector
Honorable Mentions (good cards in bad classes):
Defile
Deathstalker Rexxar "best card of the set if not Hunter"
Rotface is similar to Paletress. Whirlwind is more difficult than Inspire but you could setup for multiples in a single turn. Also he is basically inspire when you are Scourgelord Garrosh.
cartographer
Member
I never play shaman and I'm probably going to craft Moorabi because he was in possibly my favorite WoW dungeon.
I have plenty of good legs that I could craft, but he turns into a mammoth in WoW so hard to compete.
I'm so dissapointed that Team 5 didn't make any way to recover discarded cards.
I'm seeing kibler playing quest warlock and he got on had a Jaraxxus, a felhound and a Deathwing. Already tapped and almost dead, he had to play felhound or he would die.
Making the hero card a way to get cards from that discarded pool could have made some very interesting plays and thought process, and the discard not as utterly destroying as it was there for kibler.
I know the current hero card is good, pretty good, but they have been pushing this archetype and that card was the way they could have made discardlock much better.
I'm seeing kibler playing quest warlock and he got on had a Jaraxxus, a felhound and a Deathwing. Already tapped and almost dead, he had to play felhound or he would die.
Making the hero card a way to get cards from that discarded pool could have made some very interesting plays and thought process, and the discard not as utterly destroying as it was there for kibler.
I know the current hero card is good, pretty good, but they have been pushing this archetype and that card was the way they could have made discardlock much better.
I still think this is a 2, but you were calling this the literal worst card of the set.
I had to say something.
I'm also curious about how this could run with DK warrior.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I liked Discardlock after Karazhan perfect mix but that still had PO and didn't have to compete witht the current aggro.
So not thinking a card is unplayable trash warrants pulling out some quotes? Most of those quotes are quite level headed and neutral in their assessment .
I too think the card is 2/5 "mediocre to below average" but worst card of the set this is not.
cartographer
Member
I think there's a chance they are going to stop pushing it. IIRC somebody in this thread mentioned they talked about making handlock a thing again so maybe there won't be so much focus on discard in other sets. They don't strike me as particularly agile on big picture design stuff like pushing discard mechanics so they could realize it's not worth it but still have cards yet to be released that push it.
I think it worked well that way, too. The big issue is current aggro decks either have access to better minions, better buffs / synergy or have weapons (or all three in some cases). But having a few discard cards and then Imp seemed like the right amount unless they are going to fundamentally change how discard works. I still play a similar deck from time to time, it's just not good.
I was asked what the responses were. I didn't editorialize (except in spot where I bolded a sentence, I guess)
I have to go through my posts, but I believe I called this the worst warrior legendary ever printed, but I don't think I called it the worst card of the set. (the set wasn't even revealed at the time and I thought the warrior DK would be as bad/worse)
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I think if they hadn't lost PO then Warlock could at least compete with other aggro decks and find the reach for slower decks. PW exposes itself in aggro matchups by keeping boardcontrol with their face, that's exactly where PO shines.
Like Zavvas is a decent card as is the 4/4 adapter.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Certainly saying it's not unplayable garbage doesn't mean it's a strong card either.
^
Yeah, I never said it was the worst card in the set. Not sure where that is coming from. Here's what I said at the time.
(The synergy with the warrior hero actually has me raising my estimation of the card from a 0 to a 1, btw. So now I think it's equal to Grapplehammer.)
(The synergy with the warrior hero actually has me raising my estimation of the card from a 0 to a 1, btw. So now I think it's equal to Grapplehammer.)