Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
keep resetting unless you have ysharj.
Some had success with lists intending to go past turn 7 but I don't know ay succesful lists.
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Hearthstone |OT9| Our raid wiped in Icecrown Citadel
- Thread starter ZealousD
- Start date
Some had success with lists intending to go past turn 7 but I don't know ay succesful lists.
slightconfuse
Banned
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
regular evolve shaman works just fine. I switched the thing from belows for doomsayers.
slightconfuse
Banned
Just beat hunter. Got double molten giant on turn one and just snow balled him
Just pally and mage left
Just pally and mage left
Karsticles
Member
I really am happy with how good the Lich King AI is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyaZcLnKJSc&t=19s
I don't think other adventures would have made a play this intelligent, though maybe I'm wrong.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyaZcLnKJSc&t=19s
I don't think other adventures would have made a play this intelligent, though maybe I'm wrong.
oh hey I didn't see this when I entered the thread before, congrats! you have been trying to get legend for some time now, glad you could make it finally
Karsticles
Member
Grats! =D
Don't try to be creative like it's a constructed deck, draft for stats and tempo on curve.
I don't want to be that guy but watch trumps arena vids, he goes through his drafts and why he picks what he picks.
Kripp never explains his picks and just goes by the tier score.
slightconfuse
Banned
What list did you use for palidan I can't get past him
homeworkfilms
Member
Challenge a friend Asia anyone?
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
What if nourish was not choose one, and simply did both. It would be like casting the current version of nourish twice. You draw 3, play wild growth twice, and innervate.
I think fandral should have only affected minions, not spells.
I think fandral should have only affected minions, not spells.
Used this, but I think it's just mainly pure luck. Was able to get finja to draw the warleaders, got board and left him with 2/2 on 6, equality and consecrate on 7, then he didn't clear, megasaur on 8. It was the last class I had to win with, so there's probably something easier. Lucked out with no blizzard and he used the buff/can't target his minions in early game for some reason.
### Custom Paladin
# Class: Paladin
# Format: Wild
#
# 1x (1) Grimscale Chum
# 2x (1) Grimscale Oracle
# 2x (1) Hungry Crab
# 2x (1) Murloc Tidecaller
# 2x (2) Bluegill Warrior
# 2x (2) Equality
# 1x (2) Hydrologist
# 2x (2) Rockpool Hunter
# 1x (3) Aldor Peacekeeper
# 2x (3) Coldlight Oracle
# 2x (3) Coldlight Seer
# 2x (3) Murloc Warleader
# 2x (3) Primalfin Lookout
# 2x (4) Consecration
# 2x (4) Gentle Megasaur
# 1x (5) Finja, the Flying Star
# 2x (10) Anyfin Can Happen
#
AAEBAaToAgSPCdO8AuO+ArPBAg27A8UD2wPcA/4D4wX0BfgHpwjSFp3CArHCAobEAgA=
#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Fandral Nourish is problematic in only 2 out of 3 scenarios. Those being he sticks for a turn and you innervate out the nourish immediately after playing him.
Lategame he makes nourish a 3 mana draw 3, which is excellent but not problematic.
Karsticles
Member
I would rather see more classes have playstyles that are draw-heavy like Jade Druid and Miracle Rogue. Not less. Those decks are the most fun to play. I like huge hands with lots of decisions to make.
So now Fandral works with a total of 6 cards in Standard, of which only two are seeing play.
Fandral into Nourish is hardly a problem - it's a 9-mana combo that gives you back 2 mana. So at best you're talking about spending 7 mana to draw 3 cards and put a 3/5 on the board. Why is that a problem? Fandral is only overpowered if he lasts more than a turn. He's like Thaurissan, Brann, Antonidas, etc. If you get value off of him, he's absolutely insane over several turns. If you kill him on the turn following his play, he's strong but reasonable.
Side note: remember that brief period where Fandral, Innervate, Wisps of the Old Gods was a win condition? LOL
So now Fandral works with a total of 6 cards in Standard, of which only two are seeing play.
Fandral into Nourish is hardly a problem - it's a 9-mana combo that gives you back 2 mana. So at best you're talking about spending 7 mana to draw 3 cards and put a 3/5 on the board. Why is that a problem? Fandral is only overpowered if he lasts more than a turn. He's like Thaurissan, Brann, Antonidas, etc. If you get value off of him, he's absolutely insane over several turns. If you kill him on the turn following his play, he's strong but reasonable.
Side note: remember that brief period where Fandral, Innervate, Wisps of the Old Gods was a win condition? LOL
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Not the quest card. Maybe vellen, doesn't seem necessary though.
4* Fandral into DK is a lot of fun. Jade Idol, Wrath, Nourish, DK Malf.
Karsticles
Member
LOL, yes it is! And not really overpowered, really. 11 mana to upgrade your hero and get two poison dudes plus two weak taunts. I love pulling it off, but it has only won me the game once or twice. It's actually incredibly strong against Jade Druid and other decks that struggle to remove the 1/2 spiders.
I don't know why Raven Idol doesn't get play with him in Wild. Fandral + double Raven Idol is a ton of value, and I have found some great things in those Discover plays. I just wish the minion search was Druid-focused instead of a bunch of random neutrals.
cartographer
Member
Both playing Malf and the hero power. And even Mire Keeper in some decks, though that's similar to Nourish in the situations it happens, just less impact.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Mire Keeper, Nourish, Jade Idol, Malfurion the Pestilent (+ the hero power), Wrath, Druid of the Swarm and Claw
All cards I've played fandral with and against this season, 7 and a a half.
All cards I've played fandral with and against this season, 7 and a a half.
cartographer
Member
Somebody running Claw is the story here. Also not a Choose card.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I don't know where you're getting 6 standard cards and only 2 are being played. These are all viable choose one cards.
Jade idol
wrath
nourish
Malfurion DK
Feral rage
Mire keeper
Kun
druid of the claw
druid of the swarm
ancient of war
even cenarius
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Oh yeah forgot Kun and Feral Rage so 9 and a half I've played or faced.
Druid of the Claw, this guy
Druid of the Claw, this guy
cartographer
Member
Nah I like Fandral and think he's fine power wise but he's the type of card that needs to rotate to switch things up and open up design space. Choose One is often a fun mechanic and he understandably limits that.
That makes more sense!
I would support this.
Karsticles
Member
I'm not sure where the misunderstanding is, but you said Fandral should only work with minions, and not spells. That's what I was responding to.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
You said there were only 6 standard cards, not spells.
Fandral only affecting minions is a suggestion because it is much higher impact to get both choose one off spells since it effectively doubles the impact of the spell. While with minions you only get 1 minion. It's stronger than normal but it's not like you're getting a 4/4 charge and a 4/6 taunt with DOTC.
And even if you narrow it to only non-minions there is wrath, jade idol, nourish, feral rage, power of the wild, and malfurion (which also doubles the immediately impact and the impact of any hero power). 6 seeing play right now. More proven viable like wisps of the old gods and starfall.
Karsticles
Member
Yeah, but I was quoting your post and responding to it.
Anyway, my point is just that Fandral is not a problem. He's probably the only good legendary Druid has gotten since the game came out. Let's not nuke him because Jade Druid is too strong right now, ok? He's rotating out soon anyway.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I love Fandral once OG becomes wild only might be the point in time Wild becomes a serious contender.
Kun has now been in 2 top tier decks. Avianna being the center piece of the other. Cenarius saw play every now and then even during standard with token druid.
Kun has now been in 2 top tier decks. Avianna being the center piece of the other. Cenarius saw play every now and then even during standard with token druid.
I think this would be very fine. Fandral is just a 1 off, doesn't limit any deck archetype because it just acts alone by itself, doesn't need a ton of synergies more than the cards that are already going to be printed.
Cenarius is just such a terrible card.
Fandral is a great card but it's a legendary, so I'll give it a pass. The problem cards that actually need nerfing are ultimate infestation and spreading plague. These cards give Jade druid the means to tech in cards like bgh, black night, silence, mc tech, etc. without any drawbacks. Jade druid has no counter at the moment.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
If you meant only spells, you should have said spells. Either case that is not accurate.
I think it's been a problem since the card came out and I said that much even before it was recognized as good. 4 mana is way too cheap for it's impact to double your spell's value, and it's not like it's a shitty statline like some other 4 mana legendaries with high value.
I think people are so obsessed with jade druid they don't want to recognize that there are other issues that don't get talked about. I never brought up jade druid, but we're viewing everything through that lens anyway
Karsticles
Member
If you meant only spells, you should have said spells. Either case that is not accurate.
I think it's been a problem since the card came out and I said that much even before it was recognized as good. 4 mana is way too cheap for it's impact to double your spell's value, and it's not like it's a shitty statline like some other 4 mana legendaries with high value.
I think people are so obsessed with jade druid they don't want to recognize that there are other issues that don't get talked about. I never brought up jade druid, but we're viewing everything through that lens anyway
Totally accurate, and the "now" in that sentences signifies that my sentence is a follow-up to your claim.
Every class has some bullshit. Why aren't you asking for a Van Cleef nerf? What do you think is more ridiculous: a 14/14 on turn 3, or spending omg 7 net mana to draw 3 cards?
Every class has peak cards. The power levels are all over the place in this game, and it's just a waste of time to pretend any of it will change. Unless a card is decimating the game or severely limiting design space (or it's inconvenient RIP Dreadsteed), it's not changing. Is Fandral an overtuned card? Absolutely! Just like Van Cleef is a broken, game-deciding card with the right hand! But whatever! Team 5 isn't going to micro-adjust cards that are slightly overtuned and undertuned. And that's all Fandral is. He's just a little too good for his mana cost. He's not breaking the game, he's not defining the meta, and he's even going to rotate soon.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
You said there are only 2 choose spells being played in standard. That is definitely false, even in jade druid alone running 3-4 of them.
Re: the rest of the post - If you want to talk about other cards, okay. But I am not talking about other cards and that is just deflection to a different topic.
Good, that mu was always hugely favored for rogue pre kft. Glad the meta is changing.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I also enjoy seeing less and less classes...
Got a list for me?
Karsticles
Member
Like I said, I was responding to your suggestion about minions-only. You're right that there are a few more - I forgot to include cards I haven't crafted.
Here are ALL of the "Choose One" minions in Standard:
Druid of the Swarm
Keeper of the Grove
Mire Keeper
Shellshifter
Druid of the Claw
Ancient of War
That was my original 6. I forgot:
Ancient of Lore
Cenarius
Kun the Forgotten King
Of those, only these two cards are seeing play:
Druid of the Swarm
Mire Keeper
If the meta changed and people are using the others a lot, I'm glad to accept that I'm wrong. The point is that Fandral synergy would become pretty minimal. None of those cards would be worth running with Fandral. I don't give a damn about getting a 1/5 poison taunt or an extra 2/2 with my mana crystal. The spells are where his actual utility are.
How is everyone beating Lich King with Warrior?
I've tried versions that use Dead Man's Hand and Arcane Giants with Sunfury Protectors and another version that tries to fatigue him with Dead Man's Hand and the murloc that draws two but I can't seem to get either to work for the life of me.
I've tried versions that use Dead Man's Hand and Arcane Giants with Sunfury Protectors and another version that tries to fatigue him with Dead Man's Hand and the murloc that draws two but I can't seem to get either to work for the life of me.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
fine fewer
### Standard Token Shaman
# Class: Shaman
# Format: Standard
# Year of the Mammoth
#
# 2x (1) Bloodsail Corsair
# 2x (1) Evolve
# 2x (1) Fire Fly
# 1x (1) Patches the Pirate
# 2x (2) Devolve
# 2x (2) Flametongue Totem
# 2x (2) Jade Claws
# 2x (2) Maelstrom Portal
# 2x (2) Primalfin Totem
# 2x (3) Mana Tide Totem
# 2x (4) Jade Lightning
# 1x (4) Saronite Chain Gang
# 2x (5) Bloodlust
# 2x (5) Doppelgangster
# 1x (5) Thrall, Deathseer
# 1x (6) Aya Blackpaw
# 2x (6) Thing from Below
#
AAECAaoIBJG8ApS9ApvLAuvPAg3lB/qqAuvCAva9AvAH0bwCoLYCkcECgQSHvAKTCfm/AvuqAgA=
#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone
# https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/deck-library/shaman-decks/token-shaman/standard-token-shaman/
I did it w/o thrall and doomsayers in place of thing from below.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
You should have been clear in what you intended to say.
2mana 1/5 posionous with taunt is actually incredibly strong.
5 mana 4/6 charge taunt is also very strong.
Getting a 5/5 stats off of 4 mana with wild growth attached is also very strong.
Hell, they're all very strong. You're just used to the broken power levels that druid enjoys atm to think these synergies are not strong.
My point however is largely that it's brokenly strong with spells which it shouldn't be. Doublling the power of a spell for 4 mana, that also gets a 3/5 is quite over the top imo. At 4 mana it should not have that power. Perhaps 5 or 6 mana is more appropriate for that text. I am not concerned with whether the card is even played, there are a ton of balanced but not played legendary cards.
Karsticles
Member
Except none of these are true. It's a 2-card combo that costs 4 + the card you are playing. Is a 2-mana 1/5 poisonous taunt good? Fuck yeah, it is!
But really it's 6-mana for a 3/5 and a 1/5 poisonous taunt across two cards. Is that still good? It's okay. It's nothing amazing or great. It's certainly not worth crafting a legendary over. Neither is 9 mana for a 3/5 and a 4/6 taunt charge. Hell, Call of the Wild is better than that, and it's just one card!
I already agreed that Fandral is probably overtuned. But my counter-point was that in any given set, a LOT of cards will be overpowered, and a LOT of cards will be underpowered, because a lot of this is meta-dependent. Unless it's breaking the game or causing a meta black hole, I don't think it's worth addressing. Antonidas, with the right setup, turns into a 7-mana card that gives you infinite fireballs. That's game-determining, but still not worth nerfing.
In the current meta, here are the cards I really think are potentially worth addressing:
Jades (as a mechanic)
Innervate
Ultimate Infestation
Patches (but more importantly, Ship's Cannon in Wild)
Murlocs
DK Anduin
Plus something from Aggro Druid, though I don't even know what. Maybe Innervate would be enough to keep it in check - it would be healthy to make that change and let it roll for a while.
Skulking Geist is something I wish would just get straight-up deleted, and I think we both have similar feelings of distaste for that card.
We'll see how Bonemare turns out. It's definitely an extremely strong card. Someone in the Wild Discord joked that a common is now better than Dr. Doom, and I can see where he's coming from.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
It's not just a 3/5 for 4 mana, it's a 3/5 must remove or it continues to get value. It's never been just a 3/5. 6 mana 3/5 + a 1/5 posionous taunt is amazing. I don't know how you can call that just okay. The 1/5 poisonous taunt means a tempo deck has to eat through 10 health to deal with that! Or you have 5 damage removal lined up, which most classes don't. And when you can't deal with that 3/5 behind a 1/5 poisonous taunt, you're giving another turn of double combos to hit the board.