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[BreezyLimbo]

If Druids innervate is touched, then here is my wishlist of the other classes sacrifices:

Mage:Ice Block
Warlock: Siphon Soul
Hunter: Highmane
Paladin: Blessing of Kings
Warrior: Fiery War Axe
Rogue: Preparation
Shaman: Hex

it's only fair

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

It's not about being fair.

 

[Kangi]

Four Obsidian Statues before it's actually playable by normal means is not fun to play against, but I definitely want to play that deck.

 

[ZeroX03]

Make a deck of 30 elementals. Takes me three games to play 10 of them. fml what a waste of time.

VS's lack of RNG was one of the things that killed it! That's why they went so far overboard w/ it in constructed-level cards in HS early on.

Yeah because it didn't appeal to the casuals. As a competitive game it was a thing of beauty.

 

[traveler]

Make a deck of 30 elementals. Takes me three games to play 10 of them. fml what a waste of time.



Yeah because it didn't appeal to the casuals. As a competitive game it was a thing of beauty.

Lack of RNG =/= greater skill

Piloting a braindead combo deck that can consistently combo off a certain turn is not as skill intensive as piloting a much less consistent control deck where dealing with unpredictable RNG for yourself and your opponent is a part of the skill in managing your resources.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

playing to your outs include some of the most incredible plays I've ever seen.

There was that one time where someone put their opponent to 4 in magic for the low chance for a Bob to flip exactly Kalitas.
On the one hand it's bullshit on the other incredible.

In Hearthstone those would be Firelands Portal for a taunt and such kinda plays.

 

[Lyng]

Lack of RNG =/= greater skill

Piloting a braindead combo deck that can consistently combo off a certain turn is not as skill intensive as piloting a much less consistent control deck where dealing with unpredictable RNG for yourself and your opponent is a part of the skill in managing your resources.

Only true to a point. When rng becomes a deciding factor you remove strategy.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Only true to a point. When rng becomes a deciding factor you remove strategy.

Not true at all since few of the random effects are entirely random.

 

[FeD.nL]

Turn 3 coin + barnes into Y'shaarj > Y'shaarj. Ah well sometimes you are just destined to lose a game.

 

[ZeroX03]

Lack of RNG =/= greater skill

Piloting a braindead combo deck that can consistently combo off a certain turn is not as skill intensive as piloting a much less consistent control deck where dealing with unpredictable RNG for yourself and your opponent is a part of the skill in managing your resources.

Braindead? Did you play (OG) VS System...?

Trying to think of what decks could even be considered that simple. Big Bat variations? Justice League of Arkham? Both of which were nerfed. And still pretty easy for a bad player to screw up.

 

[Karsticles]

If Druids innervate is touched, then here is my wishlist of the other classes sacrifices:

Mage:Ice Block
Warlock: Siphon Soul
Hunter: Highmane
Paladin: Blessing of Kings
Warrior: Fiery War Axe
Rogue: Preparation
Shaman: Hex

it's only fair

The fact that you had to stoop to Siphon Soul amplifies how shitty Warlock cards are.

 

[gutshot]

If Druids innervate is touched, then here is my wishlist of the other classes sacrifices:

Mage:Ice Block
Warlock: Siphon Soul
Hunter: Highmane
Paladin: Blessing of Kings
Warrior: Fiery War Axe
Rogue: Preparation
Shaman: Hex

it's only fair

I can't even imagine what the Hunter class would look like without Highmane. May as well delete it from the game at that point.

 

[Yoshichan]

If Druids innervate is touched, then here is my wishlist of the other classes sacrifices:

Mage:Ice Block
Warlock: Siphon Soul
Hunter: Highmane
Paladin: Blessing of Kings
Warrior: Fiery War Axe
Rogue: Preparation
Shaman: Hex

it's only fair

lol

 

[traveler]

Uh, in what universe does siphon soul pose as much of a potential meta problem as innervate? Or any of the other spells on that list outside preparation and ice block potentially for that matter. (and I don't think those 2 are that close to innervate either)

Braindead? Did you play (OG) VS System...?

Trying to think of what decks could even be considered that simple. Big Bat variations? Justice League of Arkham? Both of which were nerfed. And still pretty easy for a bad player to screw up.

I was responding to the implication that a lack of rng is somehow catering to casuals.

I've never played VS and don't have any opinion on it. For all I know, it was as great a game as you suggest.

 

[Crazyorloco]

The fact that you had to stoop to Siphon Soul amplifies how shitty Warlock cards are.

Yeah I looked at that and laughed. Siphon soul does not compare to those other cards.

The only card I feel that could possibly get nerfed is Bloodreaver guldan for warlock. But that's a late 10 mana card anyway.

 

[Htown]

The fact that you had to stoop to Siphon Soul amplifies how shitty Warlock cards are.

that's only because the "problem" warlock card got Hall of Fame'd already

 

[Ikkarus]

If Druids innervate is touched, then here is my wishlist of the other classes sacrifices:

Mage:Ice Block
Warlock: Siphon Soul
Hunter: Highmane
Paladin: Blessing of Kings
Warrior: Fiery War Axe
Rogue: Preparation
Shaman: Hex

it's only fair

....madness.

Innervate is broken in Druid. They can empty their hand with ramp and replenish via UI or even Nourish if needs be. The fact Power Overwhelming is in the hall of fame and innervate isn't is mind blowing. The only negative thing about innverate is that it's a terrible top deck but otherwise the card literally has no downsides.

Also if I was to shelve one Paladin card it would be Divine Favour.

 

[Hybris]

I don't understand the logic.

Druid ladder population is too high. Other classes are not. Better nerf 1 card from each class ????

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

It's a strawman argument. Only other basic card that comes close to innervat is FWA in powerlevel.

 

[Dahbomb]

LMAO @ Siphon Soul and Blessing of Kings!

 

[supervillain]

Yeah, they really have to do something about druid, it's out of control.
And also a big lol at that nerf list.

 

[Yaboosh]

Saw on Reddit that Naga Sea Witch now changes Giant base mana cost to 5 and it reduces from there. So you only have to be missing 5 life for molten giants to be free, have five cards in hand for mountain giants to be free, played five spells for arcane giants etc.

 

[cartographer]

If Druids innervate is touched, then here is my wishlist of the other classes sacrifices:

Mage:Ice Block
Warlock: Siphon Soul
Hunter: Highmane
Paladin: Blessing of Kings
Warrior: Fiery War Axe
Rogue: Preparation
Shaman: Hex

it's only fair

Wat.

I'm the first one here to point out the ridiculousness of FWA and Ice Block and I agree that Prep can be problematic but Siphon Soul? Really?

 

[wiibomb]

Saw on Reddit that Naga Sea Witch now changes Giant base mana cost to 5 and it reduces from there. So you only have to be missing 5 life for molten giants to be free, have five cards in hand for mountain giants to be free, played five spells for arcane giants etc.

that sounds nice. wonder if that would make that card somewhat playable in those nutty giant decks floating on wild

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

So this was just my draw with druid.

Turn 1 coin wild growth, turn 2 jade blossom, turn 3 nourish into wild growth, turn 4 innervate UI

If I'd known I'd draw an innervate the next turn I would have kept the wild growht but I had an UI in hand I wanted to accelerate out.
Almost lost the game to a doubly buffed spreaded plague but cleared his board with 2 doomsayers behind my own plague. Surprisingly enough my opponent played Geist.

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

If Druids innervate is touched, then here is my wishlist of the other classes sacrifices:

Mage:Ice Block
Warlock: Siphon Soul
Hunter: Highmane
Paladin: Blessing of Kings
Warrior: Fiery War Axe
Rogue: Preparation
Shaman: Hex

it's only fair

Hating on Blessing of Kings, but not Divine Favor?

 

[Lyng]

Not true at all since few of the random effects are entirely random.

Wrong. A roll of a dice is entirely random, even if you have a fixed number of outcomes. Several cards in hearthstone now are essentially dice. You roll, maybe the give you trash or they give you the one card you need to win. Especially the random spells ones.
This is monopoly levels of gameplay which ofc is outdated and garbage design.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Wrong. A roll of a dice is entirely random, even if you have a fixed number of outcomes. Several cards in hearthstone now are essentially dice. You roll, maybe the give you trash or they give you the one card you need to win. Especially the random spells ones.
This is monopoly levels of gameplay which ofc is outdated and garbage design.

well if you want to go down that route then you're wrong because Hearthstone is definitely using a pseudo random number generator.

The point was it takes cosndierable skill to stack the odds in your favour against all odds and even if that just means playing towards high rolling a doomguard from a firelands portal.

 

[ZealousD]

....madness.

Innervate is broken in Druid. They can empty their hand with ramp and replenish via UI or even Nourish if needs be. The fact Power Overwhelming is in the hall of fame and innervate isn't is mind blowing. The only negative thing about innverate is that it's a terrible top deck but otherwise the card literally has no downsides.

Actually, Innervate is supposed to have one other downside. Anything you Innervate out has to do serious work. If you Innervate out a Viscious Fledgling for example, if it gets immediately removed by a Frost Bolt, War Axe, SW, or whatever else, you are down a card. That can put you at a disadvantage for the rest of the game.

But when Druids have UI, card advantage in Druid is turned completely on its head. People are innervating into Nourish for ramp. Prior to this expansion, a play like that would be some straight up YOLO nonsense. But if you can draw an extra 3-4 cards for free, then the card advantage drawback of Innervate has no meaning anymore.

This is why I say that the issue here is UI and not Innervate.

 

[Yaboosh]

Actually, Innervate is supposed to have one other downside. Anything you Innervate out has to do serious work. If you Innervate out a Viscious Fledgling for example, if it gets immediately removed by a Frost Bolt, War Axe, SW, or whatever else, you are down a card. That can put you at a disadvantage for the rest of the game.

But when Druids have UI, card advantage in Druid is turned completely on its head. People are innervating into Nourish for ramp. Prior to this expansion, a play like that would be some straight up YOLO nonsense. But if you can draw an extra 3-4 cards for free, then the card advantage drawback of Innervate has no meaning anymore.

This is why I say that the issue here is UI and not Innervate.

Aggro druid may be a larger problem than jade druid and they don't run ramp or UI. Druid has way more problems than any one card.

 

[wiibomb]

this can't be...

this brawl couldn't have come in a worst time. I just lethaled an opponent on turn 3 with jade druid

 

[TankUP]

this can't be...

this brawl couldn't have come in a worst time. I just lethaled an opponent on turn 3 with jade druid

Paladin can do it T1

 

[wiibomb]

Paladin can do it T1

consistently? because I literally just did it on turn 2. now I'm aiming to do it on turn 1

 

[TankUP]

consistently? because I literally just did it on turn 2. now I'm aiming to do it on turn 1

Okay, I did it with Druid turn 1. Innervate / Violet Illusionist / Ultimate Infestation and I went off from there.

 

[ZealousD]

People talking about the brawl without telling the rest of us what it is is cancerous.

 

[Yaboosh]

People talking about the brawl without telling the rest of us what it is is cancerous.

Spells cost health. Standard only.

 

[wiibomb]

Okay, I did it with Druid turn 1. Innervate / Violet Illusionist / Ultimate Infestation and I went off from there.

I just did that...

omg fastest brawl of my life.

 

[BananasWithGuns]

Well this brawl is a fucking clown shoe. Killed my opponent on turn 1 in the first game.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I hate this meta so much, time to check out wild.

 

[Lyng]

well if you want to go down that route then you're wrong because Hearthstone is definitely using a pseudo random number generator.

The point was it takes cosndierable skill to stack the odds in your favour against all odds and even if that just means playing towards high rolling a doomguard from a firelands portal.

So you think rolling dice = skill?

 

[Yaboosh]

I hate this meta so much, time to check out wild.

Hope you don't hate the meta because of druid, pirate warrior and priest. Because i have some bad news for you.

 

[Karsticles]

Actually, Innervate is supposed to have one other downside. Anything you Innervate out has to do serious work. If you Innervate out a Viscious Fledgling for example, if it gets immediately removed by a Frost Bolt, War Axe, SW, or whatever else, you are down a card. That can put you at a disadvantage for the rest of the game.

But when Druids have UI, card advantage in Druid is turned completely on its head. People are innervating into Nourish for ramp. Prior to this expansion, a play like that would be some straight up YOLO nonsense. But if you can draw an extra 3-4 cards for free, then the card advantage drawback of Innervate has no meaning anymore.

This is why I say that the issue here is UI and not Innervate.

It could be both. Innervate into Fledgling is a goddamn problem.

 

[Raxus]

This brawl is hilarious. OTKO from druid almost guaranteed.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

So you think rolling dice = skill?

no I think maneuvering a game into the position where rolling a specific number of eyes wins you the game is.

Hope you don't hate the meta because of druid, pirate warrior and priest. Because i have some bad news for you.

please give me all the pirate warriors, I love playing against that deck in comparison and not because of a great matchu or anything.

 

[LyleLanley]

UI/Violet Illusionist in this brawl sure is fun...

 

[Lyng]

no I think maneuvering a game into the position where rolling a specific number of eyes wins you the game is.

please give me all the pirate warriors, I love playing against that deck in comparison.

Then we will just have to agree to disagree I prefer more deterministic gameplay.

 

[TankUP]

no I think maneuvering a game into the position where rolling a specific number of eyes wins you the game is.

Some people need to believe that Hearthstone requires no skill. It doesn't matter that it's the same players who reach top legend every month -- they're just luckier, and if they were that lucky, they'd be top legend too.

 

[cartographer]

Actually, Innervate is supposed to have one other downside. Anything you Innervate out has to do serious work. If you Innervate out a Viscious Fledgling for example, if it gets immediately removed by a Frost Bolt, War Axe, SW, or whatever else, you are down a card. That can put you at a disadvantage for the rest of the game.

But when Druids have UI, card advantage in Druid is turned completely on its head. People are innervating into Nourish for ramp. Prior to this expansion, a play like that would be some straight up YOLO nonsense. But if you can draw an extra 3-4 cards for free, then the card advantage drawback of Innervate has no meaning anymore.

This is why I say that the issue here is UI and not Innervate.

Pretty much. And fatigue isn't even a downside because of Jade Idol (which even gets put into non-Jade lists for this purpose).

No matter what other changes get made, the card draw from UI has to get hard if you want ramp to have a downside.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Then we will just have to agree to disagree I prefer more deterministic gameplay.

Welcome to card games?

 

[wiibomb]

oh fuck, I didn't realize nerubian unraveler can be taken out from a moonglade portal.