fwiw I did have and play through Normal Karazhan before (hence Medivh and Valet), but I was only doing PvE stuff in the game and have only recently gotten into PvP
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Hearthstone |OT9| Our raid wiped in Icecrown Citadel
- Thread starter ZealousD
- Start date
fwiw I did have and play through Normal Karazhan before (hence Medivh and Valet), but I was only doing PvE stuff in the game and have only recently gotten into PvP
SodiumBenzoate
Member
There's probably going to be 2 Primoridial Glyphs in every mage deck until it rotates out in 18 months - go for that first.
Don't play Shatter bro, real advice
and you know what I think you can jam DK jaina into that deck easily, I think Alextrasza is better craft tho, because that basically bog standard freeze mage deck shell, which is decent deck
EDIT : yeah dont forget about primordial glyph
1990 dust is real close for crafting 2 glyph and 1 of alex/jaina, and you get mage netdeck
pretty surprising tbh for new player
and you know what I think you can jam DK jaina into that deck easily, I think Alextrasza is better craft tho, because that basically bog standard freeze mage deck shell, which is decent deck
EDIT : yeah dont forget about primordial glyph
1990 dust is real close for crafting 2 glyph and 1 of alex/jaina, and you get mage netdeck
pretty surprising tbh for new player
bemusedchunk
Banned
I've heard good things about this expansion...
However, I'm apprehensive about diving back into Hearthstone - I've been out of the game from probably since June. I REALLY liked Un'Goro that first month - but then the meta just became stale again.
Has Icecrown mixed things up enough? Or is the same old meta with just a few tweaks thrown in?
However, I'm apprehensive about diving back into Hearthstone - I've been out of the game from probably since June. I REALLY liked Un'Goro that first month - but then the meta just became stale again.
Has Icecrown mixed things up enough? Or is the same old meta with just a few tweaks thrown in?
With all the focus on Druid, I want to call attention to a few other cards that are still running rampant and pose significant issues:
*Arcanologist: Everyone knew this card was too good and now every Mage plays two of these in their deck. This is not an easy card to change as 2/2 would be too weak.
*Primordial Glyph: Needed a nerf months ago, card is ridiculously stupid. Mana discount should be 1 mana, not two mana. It would still see a ton of play.
*Patches: Enough fucking said!
*Gentle Megasaur: Nothing gentle about this card, this card enables Murlocs to finish games by turn 5/6 with ease. This card was always statted way too good.
*Priest DK: If Priest had a card that was "8 mana Destroy all minions that have 5 attack or more and heal for 5"... it would still see play as a one of. And then you attach a win condition on top of it. Probably the strongest battlecry of the DKs in terms of mana. This should be 9 mana minimum.
*Hydrologist: I got to rank 5 this month in Standard with a jank Handlock Bloodreaver deck (with a mix of other decks). It was teched to beat Druids and Priests, did ok against some aggro decks. One deck I could never beat was Murloc decks. Why? Because they would always play Hydrologist into Repentance before turn 4 and cock block my Giants and Drakes. Shit is insane man.. that card is balanced in a Midrange/Control deck but in a Murloc deck it is kinda busted. I don't known how to change it and it probably should not be changed but man is it infuriating to go against.
*Arcanologist: Everyone knew this card was too good and now every Mage plays two of these in their deck. This is not an easy card to change as 2/2 would be too weak.
*Primordial Glyph: Needed a nerf months ago, card is ridiculously stupid. Mana discount should be 1 mana, not two mana. It would still see a ton of play.
*Patches: Enough fucking said!
*Gentle Megasaur: Nothing gentle about this card, this card enables Murlocs to finish games by turn 5/6 with ease. This card was always statted way too good.
*Priest DK: If Priest had a card that was "8 mana Destroy all minions that have 5 attack or more and heal for 5"... it would still see play as a one of. And then you attach a win condition on top of it. Probably the strongest battlecry of the DKs in terms of mana. This should be 9 mana minimum.
*Hydrologist: I got to rank 5 this month in Standard with a jank Handlock Bloodreaver deck (with a mix of other decks). It was teched to beat Druids and Priests, did ok against some aggro decks. One deck I could never beat was Murloc decks. Why? Because they would always play Hydrologist into Repentance before turn 4 and cock block my Giants and Drakes. Shit is insane man.. that card is balanced in a Midrange/Control deck but in a Murloc deck it is kinda busted. I don't known how to change it and it probably should not be changed but man is it infuriating to go against.
BlackBuzzard
Banned
Stonehill Defender remove the legendary options.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Priest would definitely not play 8 mana AOE that hit all 5 attack minions. That is such a bad card.
I think the malfurion is the strongest battlecry in terms of mana, because being 2 less and still being 4 mana, if not 9 (fandral) of value.
Sometimes priest DK is twisting nether of a sort, but usually it's just a double if not single shadow word death. But honestly, priest having a win condition of a sort outside of attrition or board flooding is not the worst thing ever imo.
lol @ hydrologist beating your giants though
Fair enough, I gave my list a few days ago. I haven't changed my position on that since
I think the malfurion is the strongest battlecry in terms of mana, because being 2 less and still being 4 mana, if not 9 (fandral) of value.
Sometimes priest DK is twisting nether of a sort, but usually it's just a double if not single shadow word death. But honestly, priest having a win condition of a sort outside of attrition or board flooding is not the worst thing ever imo.
lol @ hydrologist beating your giants though
Fair enough, I gave my list a few days ago. I haven't changed my position on that since
Hydrologist is one of the best designed cards in the history of the game. You're just mad because you want to play janky Handlock decks. =P
Arcanologist would not be too weak as a 2/2. Still easily playable in a deck that runs secrets.
Arcanologist would not be too weak as a 2/2. Still easily playable in a deck that runs secrets.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
A lot. Like 5 or 6 minimum
That doesn't seem right. You'd have to build your deck around it like Barnes to get any consistent benefit.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Barnes at 4 cost is a pretty broken card already and it only gives you a 1/1 version of the minion and it doesn't draw the minion. You're talking about drawing and playing a card, which at 4 mana could be a 4 mana UI or a 4 mana twisting nether, plus a card draw.
But having any targeted burn cards in your deck could go really poorly, in general single target spells would be mostly wasted. Obviously stuff like flamestrike and twisting nether and UI would be op.
I was thinking a 3-4 mana rogue spell.
i feel like i saw some reviews for primo glyph when it was revealed that were like "this isnt unstable portal its just not that good" but like, even if thats theoretically true, i dunno how anyone ever saw glyph and didnt immediately think it was broken
im never right about how good any card will be but that one seemed obvious
im never right about how good any card will be but that one seemed obvious
As a guy who just returned to Hearthstone recently I agree with this. Fuck this card.
I think the extra cost reduction from unstable portal set primordial glyph up to be a worse card in the eyes of the reviewers. In fact, I'm not sure many people gave unstable portal a great review when it was first revealed since many looked at the early tempo loss from playing a 2 cost card and essentially passing a turn seemed so bad.
It's okay that there's strong cards. We need more strong cards, we don't need to cast Obliterate on every card that's a bit higher on the power curve than everything else.
SodiumBenzoate
Member
Sweet, more Earth Elementals
Hearthstonetopdecks.com
Kibler's Mage list looks relatively cheap without the Baron Geddon and Pyros.
I'm actually surprised he doesn't have to run Tar Creepers or Potion for aggro decks, but I watched him defeat 2 Murloc Paladins in a row. Medivh might be a good cut to go into that direction.
I've been having trouble with Mage lately. I had a deck pretty similar to this but without skulking Geist and with mana wyrm. I also don't think tempo Mage actually has enough gas nowadays so I'll bounce between this and big priest for the time being.
Edit: just got a free pack for no reason. Must be the tournament pack.
Stay away... stay far away... Unless you like druids on a population higher than shaman was at the peak of shamanstone. This meta is extremely unhealthy.
Winners get two everyone else one.
Has Stonehill been nerfed? I've been playing it in priest and I hardly see Obsidian Statue.
Of course it's ok to have powerful and strong cards. Like I think Primordial Drake is a very strong card but not overpowered, you have to make a solid case to include two of them in most decks that can run it.
My issue is with cards that every archetype in a class throws two of a card in because it's too dumb not to include them. It limits intelligent deck building and limits choices in general. Every card in that list follows this design except the Dino which you definitely shove two of them in any Murloc deck so in terms of deck design it has the same impact (running Shaman/Warlock Murloc? You play two of these too).
Like some of these cards you can reduce their stats and they would still be two of in a deck. You can make Dino into a 5/3 and it will still see play as a two of. That's when you know something is too good.
Fellow USA voters, your 40 dust has arrived!
Or that there needs to be more competition for those mana slots.
Or that there needs to be more competition for those mana slots.
Nerf arcanologist and mage doesn't run secrets.
Then you same people will laugh and say mage secrets aren't worth running and poorly designed, because there's no synergy and no reason to have them in your deck.
This is what people said after mad scientist rotated out. "Why run secrets there's no point?"
Lol
Nerf hydrologist and then no one plays it. Then you guys say man it's such a shame pally doesn't have a good 2 drop since minibot.
Same with glyph and megasaur.
before megasaur people went "see this is why murlocs suck, they have no finisher". Now it has one and people cry.
You guys have no foresight at all.
Then you same people will laugh and say mage secrets aren't worth running and poorly designed, because there's no synergy and no reason to have them in your deck.
This is what people said after mad scientist rotated out. "Why run secrets there's no point?"
Lol
Nerf hydrologist and then no one plays it. Then you guys say man it's such a shame pally doesn't have a good 2 drop since minibot.
Same with glyph and megasaur.
before megasaur people went "see this is why murlocs suck, they have no finisher". Now it has one and people cry.
You guys have no foresight at all.
I didn't get any packs
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nerf hydrologist? why? no way.
Stonehill needs a nerf. It undermines card draw and meaning of value with how powerful it is. Make it discover a neutral taunt. There is a reason Tirion and Sunkeeper are legendary, you are limited to one copy per game, not 3. The card is beyond broken in arena too.
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nerf hydrologist? why? no way.
Stonehill needs a nerf. It undermines card draw and meaning of value with how powerful it is. Make it discover a neutral taunt. There is a reason Tirion and Sunkeeper are legendary, you are limited to one copy per game, not 3. The card is beyond broken in arena too.
I just cut it. It's supposed to be 50% to get a class card, and there's two class priest taunts as far as I can recall, so I should be offered the statue about 25% of the time. But I keep having to pick Evil Heckler or other low value garbage.
Put Geist back in my deck, worst case scenario it thins my deck a bit and gets me closer to my wincon. Lost a game today because Raza, Lightbomb and Dragonfire potion were all bottom 5.
I got a golden rare and a regular one so more like 135 dust /emote
So true.
Clearly the way to make archetypes powerful is to make busted cards. Talk about sledgehammer game design.
I can make cards like that in my sleep:
New Hunter card:
"1 mana 1/1 Charge Beast. If you have only Beast minions in your deck, then gain +2/+2"
Yay I made Hunter good again guys, you can stop complaining about Hunter being bad now.
Now everyone hates Hunter because they realize it's a terrible class anyway but now it's a tier 1 terrible class.
I can make cards like that in my sleep:
New Hunter card:
"1 mana 1/1 Charge Beast. If you have only Beast minions in your deck, then gain +2/+2"
Yay I made Hunter good again guys, you can stop complaining about Hunter being bad now.
Now everyone hates Hunter because they realize it's a terrible class anyway but now it's a tier 1 terrible class.
If they stealth nerfed Stonehill they should REALLY say something. The card's value in Paladin and Priest comes because they have relatively few taunts that are amazing. If the percentages for cards from Discover as a whole are changed that's even BIGGER.
I certainly hope they wouldn't do something like that without informing the players. But this is Blizzard so... who knows?
I certainly hope they wouldn't do something like that without informing the players. But this is Blizzard so... who knows?
The reason both Stonehill and Primordial Glyph got worse is the larger pool of cards to pull from. They added a 1/1 taunt to Paladin which significantly reduces your chances to pull Tirion. They added a ton of bad spells to Mage, making Glyph way more likely to whiff.
Even with the 1/1 it still has DS and Taunt so it can be an effective roadblock for aggro. You also still have Tarim in the pool. The outcomes still seem really good for Paladin, and for Priest it should be even better you only really have Tortolla Preserve Us and Obsidian Statue.
Karsticles
Member
This is a pretty goddamn good suggestion.
But if that is the case, do we make the same change for all Discover cards? That would be a huge hit to Primordial Glyph.
Well, I'm playing in Wild so I assume that's why my Stonehill's have sucked. It's a huge card pool and most taunts are bad.
I did get offered The Lich King once, and Obsidian Statue once, and Tortolla probably a half dozen times, but it's not consistent enough. I'd rather run Glimmeroot and Kabal Courier for discovers in Wild Priest. I almost always get something worth playing.
besides patches none of the cards are busted or ridiculously over the top in power level that they need to be nerfed.
They just get played a lot. That is it. You don't instawin the game whenever you play hydrologist on turn 2.
Just because cards get played doesn't mean they're busted.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Primordial Glyph is way overtuned. It's essentually a free spell.
A free spell you get with the cost of playing a 2 mana spell.
What's better, drawing a card or discovering a card? Most would say draw.
Glyph is pay 2 mana now, discover a spell and it costs 2 less.
If it was pay 2 mana, DRAW a spell and it costs 2 less, people would say it's even more broken.
Far sight is 3 mana, draw a card it cost 3 less. Saw no play lol.
The problem isn't glyph. Mage has good spells, board clears, removal burn and secrets like ice block. Glyph can get you lucky and sometimes you discover the perfect one.
And that's ok. It's not busted or broken, it's a strong card.
What's better, drawing a card or discovering a card? Most would say draw.
Glyph is pay 2 mana now, discover a spell and it costs 2 less.
If it was pay 2 mana, DRAW a spell and it costs 2 less, people would say it's even more broken.
Far sight is 3 mana, draw a card it cost 3 less. Saw no play lol.
The problem isn't glyph. Mage has good spells, board clears, removal burn and secrets like ice block. Glyph can get you lucky and sometimes you discover the perfect one.
And that's ok. It's not busted or broken, it's a strong card.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Far sight definitely sees play in certain decks, even competitive decks in the past.
I think control shaman is potentially pretty good if there weren't so many control hate decks atm.
I think control shaman is potentially pretty good if there weren't so many control hate decks atm.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Just lost to a turn 3 Lich King. Innervate is fine though.
Ignoring that dimensions matter between 2 and 3, Shaman doesn't have a deck benefiting from floating mana right now while Mage is a class thriving on doing explosive things. Their kit is filled with ways to stall the game.
You could nerf everything Mage does or you could change some numbers in an overtuned card.
What are you talking about Farsight is a strong card and saw play in Malygos Shaman.
Ignoring that dimensions matter between 2 and 3, Shaman doesn't have a deck benefiting from floating mana right now while Mage is a class thriving on doing explosive things. Their kit is filled with ways to stall the game.
You could nerf everything Mage does or you could change some numbers in an overtuned card.
Or you could leave it be since Mage doesn't need to be nerfed.