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Hearthstone |OT9| Our raid wiped in Icecrown Citadel
- Thread starter ZealousD
- Start date
Typical
He is been awful on all the latest tournaments
Really hard to perform in tourney while being top flight streamer that cater to casual
Probably been thought of by why not introduce a rotating class ban to ladder once they meta gets stale? Only maybe the top 3 classes and every week ban a different class from ladder.
This would allow players to experience something a little more similar to tourney play while also allowing pros to do the same. Could be missing some fatal flaw though.
This would allow players to experience something a little more similar to tourney play while also allowing pros to do the same. Could be missing some fatal flaw though.
Karsticles
Member
The fatal flaw is that a lot of newer players only have one viable deck. Plus, it would upset a lot of people if you removed their favorite deck.
How about only at legend then? Maybe make it half week normal and half week ban or even less? Like I said this would only be after the meta is already stale.
BlackBuzzard
Banned
Udyr didn't ban Druid.
It did not
SodiumBenzoate
Member
I think the game is mature enough to support a third ranked format with rotating rules.
- one month with a 15 second turn timer
- one month with a rotating daily class ban
- one month with 60-card decks
I'm just spitballing specifics here but I think it would be a good addition to the game.
- one month with a 15 second turn timer
- one month with a rotating daily class ban
- one month with 60-card decks
I'm just spitballing specifics here but I think it would be a good addition to the game.
I could swear army of the dead just has a higher drop rate because man I get that shit all the time
BlackBuzzard
Banned
Its on the radar.
Should I craft Y'Shaarj just to play big priest? I would have to dust my golden tinkmaster overspark as well. I don't have the dust for highlander priest and all the other decks i've been playing have felt like shit. Just feels bad to craft a legendary that will get wild'ed next year. Also i'm not even sure big priest counters druid at this point (not that anything does).
Te match that just finished, as the twitch chat said was basically professional coin flipping. (it was quest warrior vs dk shaman)
Also, I'd really like it if arena mixed 1-3 expansions every month. You'd get Naxx+KFT, Ung only, GvG+OinK+KFT, etc.
That sounds good. The game need more variety.
Also, I'd really like it if arena mixed 1-3 expansions every month. You'd get Naxx+KFT, Ung only, GvG+OinK+KFT, etc.
I wouldn't recommend that since it's a relatively weak deck with polarizing win percentages. It beats up on slower decks when it draws correctly, but gets dominated by the rest of the meta.
I read the explanation for what is going on there and I still don't think I understand it. So Power Overwhelming was somehow stuck on Zavas because it was returned to hand by the Ambusher before the PO effect resolved?
Illidan's effect triggers "whenever" a card is played which means it takes place in the phase prior to the spell being cast. Hearthstone runs death processing at the end of each phase because they wanted the game to feel snappy and quick by not delaying the resolution of other triggers. So that whole sequence where everything dies and Zavas returns to hand is all resolved before PO is even cast. Afterwards, there is no second check by PO to revalidate that the target is still on the board before casting. So plop, PO gets cast when Zavas is in hand. That of course initiates all the other weirdness where Blizzard coded that when a card in hand "dies" it is the same as being "discarded" and then the fact that Zavas is coded to retain its buffs when discarded.
These Illidan/Knife Juggler/Explosive Sheep setups can create all sorts of weirdness because it's one of the few ways you can actually trigger stuff dying or returning to hand before their effects are able to resolve.
what a weird bug lol.
Okay, you how in Hearthstone everything works in "phases"? Like there's a "before play" phase, a "play" phase, and an "after play" phase?
ZealousD explanation is better than the one I was making.. read that one.
in summary, they are the convination of some very badly placed HS interactions, not because they are bad, but because they aligned badly
Absoludacrous
Member
Because of the way order is coded in, PO gets cast on Zavas after she's in hand. So PO is trying to kill her at the end of every turn the way it does a minion on the board. The game treats this the same as discarding, so Zavas just gets returned to hand, but still keeps PO, so every turn PO is trying to kill her again. That's why at the end she finally dies on the turn where she gets placed on the board and is no longer considered "discarded"
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I just wanna be there when someone plays malfurion as rogue then uses the hero power bug to win.
Professor Lich
Member
It blows my mind that cards in hand 'exist, but I guess it makes sense when you look at handbuff cards and other like effects. Coding in games is probably one of the best/worst things ever.
HS as a card game that has so many wacky interactions and different mechanics is a very special and particular hell. I've been thinking about the code of this game and I just end up admiring the work of the programmers. Programming those many cards without breaking everything once they introduce a set is some huge work.
I don't even know if that zavas interaction is a bug or not... I mean, it is supposed to work like that. May be the wrong thing is to assume a dead minion as discarded.
Professor Lich
Member
It's possible that something dying / being discarded / milled is the same thing, to save time / thinking when it came to programming those interactions. Then when you have a card like Dynomancer, it just looks at dead minions who died from the hand, and not ones who died on the board, but only Blizzard knows for sure.
Also have to remember that Hearthstone started out as a small pet project that was blown up into something larger, so the core programming of the game could be pretty janky as well. However, if that was the case, I would assume it would of been fixed way long ago, but it's hard to say.
Dying in hand and being discarded should of course be separate things. But I guess this is such a rare interaction that they hadn't even thought of it or didn't think it's worth the effort.
The issue with arena is that you can complete a run as slowly as you want. So you could still face pretty much anything and players could try to game the system by saving decks from a better arena cycle.
SodiumBenzoate
Member
This is so easy to fix, just end all ongoing arena runs at the end of the month with ladder resets. Waiting to snipe Kripp at 11-1? You get your 11 win rewards but your run is over.
This is what they do for Heroic tavern brawls at the end of the Brawl week already.
I'm speculating, but they probably are. Whenever they added the very first handbuff card to the game (Mistcaller I think), someone probably brought up the idea/possibility of *negative* handbuffs. They might have coded in a [If card "dies" or maximum health is reduced to 0 --> discard the card] logic since there needed to be some way to handle it.
SonicXtreme
Member
i get happy when I run into an ancient arena run with mechs or something. it's like a temporary time warp to days gone by. if the guy sat on an arena run for months or years there's no reason to hate, that's dedication.
BlackBuzzard
Banned
That mage game was good.
As much as people claim that Hearthstone is built on spaghetti code, most of the weird shit that ends up happening looks to me more like that everything is actually very compact and compartmentalized as much as possible. They're trying to create a very flexible system so they can do as little hardcoding as possible and make it easy to slide new mechanics in.
The original Auchenai / Lifesteal interaction is a great example. If you read the wording of how Lifesteal said it worked, you could see how the interaction was easily "unintended" but that it actually made sense why it worked the way it did when you realize it was exactly following the rules of the game. Whenever they "fixed" the interaction as part of The Frozen Throne, they probably had to add a hardcoded killswitch into the code to stop the recursion.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Giant Druid is gaining a lot of popularity. Apparently the giant discount happens after the "set your minions to (x) mana" effect, so Naga Sea Witch and Aviana lets you dump your hand of giants.
Look at this crap. I'm at 7 mana and dead to a huge board.
Look at this crap. I'm at 7 mana and dead to a huge board.
Yeah, they could do that. Some people would be pretty pissed if they're like 1-0 with an insane deck and forgot about the reset, but you can't please everyone. And I think there would have to be some overlap so people can actually start runs on the last few days of a rotation.
Be as it may, dying in hand is currently handled as a discard. I wonder if "whenever a minion dies" effects are triggered when it happens?
they already said it is intentional
EDIT: this is the confirmation: https://twitter.com/EntropyQ1/status/902985619172859904
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
I need more experience with it to say for sure, but it feels absolutely broken. I hope they're open to changing the interaction if it's as bad as I fear.
The Sea Witch / Giant interaction is tough, because you have two different effects attempting to manipulate the mana cost of the card, a direct set and a variable set. Should a direct set always override a variable set?
Karsticles
Member
Dreadsteed is too powerful, but a board full of 8/8s on turn 5 is OK.
Professor Lich
Member
Yeah, that is way more likely, and makes way more sense as well. Especially with how different things have been with Knights.
SonicXtreme
Member
I can't see what deck he posted but in my wild giants deck you can drop aviana > kun > lol anything you have in your hand
if sea witch somehow survives in the mid game aviana will override the discount so lets say its turn 6 you can drop aviana + loatheb or anything, perhaps kun then get all your crystals back, aviana /kun is a huge part of it
Well there it is then.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Well, I suppose it might just be another combo that's only insane if you draw is the nuts, but Druid can draw their entire damn deck by turn 10, which makes it pretty damn consistent.
You're probably not going to see it in hunter for instance, or maybe any other class, even though Naga Sea Witch is a neutral.
You're probably not going to see it in hunter for instance, or maybe any other class, even though Naga Sea Witch is a neutral.