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Hearthstone |OT9| Our raid wiped in Icecrown Citadel
- Thread starter ZealousD
- Start date
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Outside of Raza the issue Anduin poses is that he is unconditional removal.
You have a wrath stapled to a hero power that will make it almost impossible to regain board control for the opponent.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah, as long as Standard keeps power creeping and they keep nerfing things like Dreadsteed to account for clearly broken new synergies, it'll probably be fine.
Karsticles
Member
The strongest stuff in Wild is the strongest stuff in Standard. It's not a Wild issue, it's that the sets keep featuring so much power creep.
You can only spend so much mana per turn. If I play an 8/8 giant, it will take 8 mana for Anduin to remove him with the hero power. That's not even counting the cards he has to play to regain the hero power. I'm not saying it isn't very strong still, but I'm also the kind of person who favors incremental changes over nuking a card. /shrug
Maybe it's just Priest's turn, though:
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I'm not even for nerfing Anduin I just hate pretty much everything about the cards design. It is what it is I just hope priest only gets straight garbage going forward.
Or HP play a Dragonfire Potion HP again to clear the giant and any creature you had with 5 health. It's not like Priest is playing spells that do nothing to refresh the HP. Anduin forces you to overextend onto the board and is great at punishing you for it.
You need a way for infinite value or be considerably more threat dense than priest has removal.
Yeah that's what I am saying. Standard has its power creep reset every year, Wild doesn't. So Wild just keeps getting power crept forever.
SonicXtreme
Member
I mean you can cram any good core in druid and be successful with it right now considering the core cards which have insane ramp and draw. poof, dragon druid, I just made a 55% wild deck. it's funny when people nitpick over the last 1 or 2 cards to perfect a druid deck when you could just throw leper gnomes to finish your creation out and still probably wreck most good decks from other classes.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I don't think that is true. Wild takes longer to figure out the broken stuff I think. And isn't the most broken deck right now naga/giant druid lists? That's a wild only thing. The reno priest stuff with that inspire card, that is also wild only.
Karsticles
Member
Naga/Giant is an unfair example since they JUST changed Naga specifically to create that deck in Wild, which is weird. It's not the result of any kind of power creep. Blizzard just said "Hey, let's make this stupid bullshit deck an archetype in Wild for fun!" Most of the Wild community I talk to is not happy about it. I think that deck loses hard to aggro, though (I could be wrong about this).
Reno Razakus isn't OP because of Inspire cards. Since the deck doesn't generate any big boards, you can save your board wipes for Paletress - that's fine. The problem is when the hero power costs 0 mana and the deck runs 0-mana penguins and Velen for an OTK combo. That's all Standard cards. Some people use the inspire minion that deals 4-damage to both players instead, but Velen seems stronger to me. In general, though, neither one would be a problem if the hero power wasn't 0 mana every time it was refreshed.
The deck also has weak draw and loses hard to OTK Mage decks. It's possible that the deck ISN'T super strong, and I'm definitely biased in that I hate spending 20 minutes playing against a Priest just to lose to an OTK combo, and I don't want that to be a common experience in the meta. I don't mind OTK decks, but I do dislike very very long games, and I dislike how Priest now auto-beats Renolock.
As a side note, I think Warlock needs something like Jade Idol, Dead Man's Hand, or the new Priest legendary to thicken its deck. The future of Warlock can't be value anymore - Jaraxxus is shit now. Warlock's future isn't in the DK, either, because a one-time board that isn't sticky at all is a free counter. They really need to look at Warlock and think about how it can compete with the new DK cards, because the Warlock DK card doesn't cut it.
Yeah, but they also just blew Dragonfire Potion and 7 mana. It's not unreasonable for that to do 5 to the board + 4 to a target. That's my point. The card is still good, but not absurd.
If you're playing against a Priest and the match has gone to 10 mana, then you either need a late-game win condition or you need to accept your loss. It has always been that way, and DK Anduin doesn't change that.
Ah, ok.
I don't think Priest beats Renolock if you are using the Combo version in Wild. I have played many times against these Priest decks and they end up exposing themselves when they use Anduin to a Leeroy Faceless combo.
The value of the Warlock DK isn't just a solid board, it's the hero power and self sustain. You get to control their board and keep healing up. I have replaced Jaraxxus with this card in all Control decks (and added a few more demons) and it has done work. Works really well with the Combo version too because you can sneak in incidental 3 damage to put them within 20 HP range.
The Warlock DK gets stronger with each strong demon they make as well. Imagine if they made an Obsidian Statue like card for Warlock that is a demon and that's just a mild example.
The value of the Warlock DK isn't just a solid board, it's the hero power and self sustain. You get to control their board and keep healing up. I have replaced Jaraxxus with this card in all Control decks (and added a few more demons) and it has done work. Works really well with the Combo version too because you can sneak in incidental 3 damage to put them within 20 HP range.
The Warlock DK gets stronger with each strong demon they make as well. Imagine if they made an Obsidian Statue like card for Warlock that is a demon and that's just a mild example.
I tried running felguard for just this reason. Having another taunt on the board with Guldangerous will be really helpful to making the hero power have some stability.
To be honest, for me at least, what warrants the UI nerf more than anything it just watching now "skillless" (for lack of a better term) it makes playing Druid is right now. 2/3 of the standard archetypes are basically just -- ramp ramp ramp, disregard any tempo disadvantage it gives you because you'll be able to make it up on turn 10.
I wouldn't mind them removing the card draw altogether, although I do think that's too hard of a nerf, probably. Nerfing it to draw 2, or draw 1 and set it's cost to 5 (which was somebody's suggestion here) is probably the better solution.
Blizzard probably could have avoided this mess if they printed UI after Jade Ramp and the 3/3 ramp rotated out. Fewer options to gain mana means that you would actually have to slow down and maybe decide if you can skip the card draw from nourish, knowing that you have to survive to turn 10 without any further ramp (on average).
I wouldn't mind them removing the card draw altogether, although I do think that's too hard of a nerf, probably. Nerfing it to draw 2, or draw 1 and set it's cost to 5 (which was somebody's suggestion here) is probably the better solution.
Blizzard probably could have avoided this mess if they printed UI after Jade Ramp and the 3/3 ramp rotated out. Fewer options to gain mana means that you would actually have to slow down and maybe decide if you can skip the card draw from nourish, knowing that you have to survive to turn 10 without any further ramp (on average).
Karsticles
Member
I just tried to play old Tempo Mage in Wild. Holy shit that deck has been eclipsed! lol!
Warlock would need sticky demons for it to be a top tier win condition. The value in N'Zoth is that you can get stuff like Sylvannas, Sneed, Sludge Belcher, Highmane, and White Eyes. These are all incredible value cards, and to get them twice is flat-out fantastic. Compare that to Warlock DK which just gets you a bunch of 6/6s and such that die to Lightbomb.
The Anduin DK usually gets used out of desperation or as part of the OTK combo. I don't see players use it on curve just to start pelting away.
Warlock would need sticky demons for it to be a top tier win condition. The value in N'Zoth is that you can get stuff like Sylvannas, Sneed, Sludge Belcher, Highmane, and White Eyes. These are all incredible value cards, and to get them twice is flat-out fantastic. Compare that to Warlock DK which just gets you a bunch of 6/6s and such that die to Lightbomb.
Infinite Stars
Member
I don't know what you were on about earlier Karsticles about Reno and Amara being oppressive in Standard together. Reno rotated out when Amara came in.
Again, Nzoth doesn't give you a buffed hero power that you can sustain and board clear with. If a Nzoth board gets answered by a Kazakus Potion then that's it. Whereas if the Warlock DK board gets answered you still have the hero power to generate hero power with.
Also getting two Dreadlords out often acts like a board clear for you too. They should keep making cards like that for Warlock.
Also getting two Dreadlords out often acts like a board clear for you too. They should keep making cards like that for Warlock.
Karsticles
Member
Wasn't there a brief overlap? Or am I remembering wrong and it was Kaz + Reno?
2 damage has never wiped a late board for me.
But DK Anduin is waaaay better for that is my point. Why play second class win conditions?
Keyser Soze
Member
Worth it for 500 gold...
Maybe?!
Maybe?!
Karsticles
Member
150 wins or $8.
Infinite Stars
Member
It was Kaz and Reno. Amara came out with Ungoro, which rotated out BRM, TGT, and LoE.
Well Warlock has more consistent draw and can play a highlander deck more consistently. It's why for the longest time Renolock was the top highlander deck around. Warlock can just put more pressure on the Priest through superior card draw and just putting down threats (as Warlock doesn't need to put card draw cards in their deck they can have more threats). Then since they start thinning their hand they might miss a removal and start taking some damage. That's when they get forced to use the DK and that opens up some chance to combo them.
As to why play Warlock over Priest.. Life Tap that's why. Warlock is always going to be more likely to draw his DK before the Priest DK. Doesn't mean Warlock or his DK is better... just that Warlock has been more consistent than Priest decks. You would never see me play those Big Priest decks that high roll Barnes into a win.
As to why play Warlock over Priest.. Life Tap that's why. Warlock is always going to be more likely to draw his DK before the Priest DK. Doesn't mean Warlock or his DK is better... just that Warlock has been more consistent than Priest decks. You would never see me play those Big Priest decks that high roll Barnes into a win.
Keyser Soze
Member
I am happy about it when you put it in those terms. Getting 10,000 gold will make me feel better - saving $100+
BreezyLimbo
Banned
So one thing I've noticed:
Druids who use the DK don't use his emotes. Those people suck.
Druids who use the DK don't use his emotes. Those people suck.
It's not even really Mill Rogue, but still, it's crazy that he's doing so well with it.
After you reveal all the cards in the pack, you can hit the spacebar to open the next pack faster, but that's about all you've got.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
I don't like breathing, either, but it's something we have to do.
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thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Can even purposely thin your deck out with it if you want to make the curse a positive.
But even in the announcement of the boss fight, they emphasised that they wanted a few classes to be easy just so everyone can get one win on him.
I guess that means blizzard thinks Priest and Druid players as the easy mode players, and mage, hunter, and paladin players as the hard mode players.
Karsticles
Member
Just tuned in to see him lose to DK Anduin. lol
Oh I see, it's a weird OTK deck.It's not even really Mill Rogue, but still, it's crazy that he's doing so well with it.
After you reveal all the cards in the pack, you can hit the spacebar to open the next pack faster, but that's about all you've got.
If you're going that far to grind some gold might as well create a bunch of dummy accounts, keep rolling quests everyday until you hit CAF, donate the quest to your main.
That probably takes less effort for gold once you set it up than grinding hundreds of wins per one odd tavern brawl. Actually wondering if some no life people already do that, probably.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
The games in this Tavern Brawl in particular are really quick though. Takes less than an hour to get 30 wins.
If you buy packs, do it through Amazon coins and the Amazon HS app if you can, it saves you money.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
THIS IS COMPLETELY FAIR AND BALANCED
DON'T YOU DARE TAKE AWAY MY NATURAL PLAYBOY
DON'T YOU DARE TAKE AWAY MY NATURAL PLAYBOY
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Honestly, now that I've embraced the druid darkside I don't want them to nerf it. They definitely should, but I don't want them to.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Yes, the Druid is finally in the spotlight
I remember in Vanilla he sucked
In Goblins and Gnomes he sucked
In Naxxramas he sucked
Our boy has finally made it and they're going to tear him apart from us.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
I don't know if you know this
But there was a time where it was a valid strategy to run Druid Melee DPS, Druid Ranged DPS, Druid Healing, and Druid Tanking.
That was the best time in WoW.
Honestly it's a lot of fun to play if you ask me. Winning is fun, winning a lot back to back is the most fun. I had a blast last season playing jade druid and the mirror matches are a major skill test usually outside of insane draws on one side and poor on the other. I liked it but it's time to change it.
I had a blast with combo druid too and people HATED that deck more than they ever had with jade druid. Then malygos druid became a thing, that was the most fun druid deck to date and people didn't really hate that, only yogg was hated, rest of the deck was fine.
Druid is probably my favorite class. It used to be rogue but since flurry nerf they're too mediocre for my taste and they basically never get cards that are too strong ever, they're always too extra careful with rogue cards unlike in other classes... I like strong decks that give you a lot of options and only druid really does that. I hope it's not nerfed too much.
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thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
They spent a long difficult time in tier two behind the shaman and pirate meta. It's just not fair.
Well except for that time when Yogg was good and made Druid tier one, but other than that.
Ah that so that is why I played 2 of those at the end of my play session tonight.
I beat them both pretty easily but I suspect they don't play the deck as well as Dog.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
it seems blizz servers are laggy
lagging in hearthstone now heroes
watch out
lagging in hearthstone now heroes
watch out