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Hearthstone |OT9| Our raid wiped in Icecrown Citadel
- Thread starter ZealousD
- Start date
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
prince could be dece
The Mango Sentinel
Member
Always Cho, always.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
3 mana 3/3 and 4 mana 4/4 are only slightly below average in Arena. Nothing worth getting upset about compared to some real stinkers they can throw at you.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
I'd rather play Cho in constructed where people actually have spells in their decks.
The Mango Sentinel
Member
There seems to be a lot more spells in arena now. Isn't that one of the changes they made?
Karsticles
Member
Yeah, it's an interesting combination, but I choose not to run it because it doesn't help against the decks Jade Druid REALLY struggles with. Or at least that was the case before Giant decks. I really hope they just nerf those, though...they're far above and beyond anything else in the game right now.
Eh, in that interview a designer said they don't think of Druid as a class with strong draw (wut). I think UI might get hit as well. I agree Jades probably won't get hit hard or at all.
A lot of people are arguing that Hunter does this deck best. You use Stitched Tracker to make sure you get Naga Sea Witch on curve.
Return of Giants Handlock though.
I think I should try it in Wild. Pretty easy to discount Mountain Giants and Molten Giants as Warlock. Only issue is that I would have to craft Molten Giants. I think I will just wait until they nerf UI to craft Molten Giants again.
Hell since you hero power so much you can even use Frost Giants.
I think I should try it in Wild. Pretty easy to discount Mountain Giants and Molten Giants as Warlock. Only issue is that I would have to craft Molten Giants. I think I will just wait until they nerf UI to craft Molten Giants again.
Hell since you hero power so much you can even use Frost Giants.
Holy shit standard sucks, and it's not druids.
It's losing to Priest draws.
Barnes on 4? RIP
Raza and Shadowreaper by 8? RIP.
seeing Priests twice as often as druids, and losing twice as much to Priests.
I'd play Wild but every game is turn 5 one million 8/8s.
Nerfs are gonna make the game worse.
Remember when they nerfed quest rogue and then Jade druid took over? Well, goodbye druid hello Priests.
It's losing to Priest draws.
Barnes on 4? RIP
Raza and Shadowreaper by 8? RIP.
seeing Priests twice as often as druids, and losing twice as much to Priests.
I'd play Wild but every game is turn 5 one million 8/8s.
Nerfs are gonna make the game worse.
Remember when they nerfed quest rogue and then Jade druid took over? Well, goodbye druid hello Priests.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
DRUID WAS THE LAST BASTION OF DEFENSE
AND YOU'VE ABANDONED HIM IN THE TIME WHERE HE WAS NEEDED MORE THAN EVER
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
mill rogue shits over both versions of priest at least.
I had a priest kill their own 4/8 just so I couldn't bounce it again.
I had a priest kill their own 4/8 just so I couldn't bounce it again.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
My Giant Druid only has a 61% winrate today over 30 games. Stupid pirate warrior and the mirror getting more popular. I didn't see a single wild Jade Druid today when that was all that was in ladder two days ago. I miss feeding on those.
I wonder if wrath is even that good against aggro right now. It feels like it doesn't get me anywhere. I probably need golakka crawlers.
Doesn't help that all the streamers are getting in on the naga giant action. Yesterday reynad did it and today Day9's doing it.
I wonder if wrath is even that good against aggro right now. It feels like it doesn't get me anywhere. I probably need golakka crawlers.
Doesn't help that all the streamers are getting in on the naga giant action. Yesterday reynad did it and today Day9's doing it.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Druid 60% in legend lol. I mean, it's super early but you can tell what ranks up the fastest in this meta.
Big priest is okay. It's definitely not even close to where druid is atm and has bad match ups even if druid didn't exist.
Big priest is okay. It's definitely not even close to where druid is atm and has bad match ups even if druid didn't exist.
23 priest/druid, 15 everyone else.
Druid not so bad at the low ranks because they're so bad at piloting the deck. I legit saw a guy shuffle idols and t1 and t2--haven't seen that since like week one of the MSG meta.
Priest is just super frustrating at every level. I kept track--when they played their important cards on curve (either Barnes or Raza/Reaper) I lost, and when they didn't, I won. I guess I'll have to switch decks if Priest becomes the meta tyrant but fuck me if I can think of a deck that can beat that nonsense.
Today Reynad took credit for inventing the deck, lol. "I can't wait until a month from now when everyone says the combo was obvious."
He also said ranks don't represent skill, the majority of legend players have as much skill as a brand new player stuck at rank 18, and that the only thing important in Hearthstone is time investment.
He's not wrong on the time investment > skill part given that a baseline level of competency and a deck with a good enough winrate should eventually get you to legend given enough time.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Reynad likes to say provocative things like that.
That's not really provocative though. A grindy ladder system doesn't make any sense as a mechanism for judging "skill" in a TCG.
Seeing a guy like Reynad spouting that skill doesn't matter in the slightest in Hearthstone is gross. There's a reason some guys hit legend every season and some guys never see single digit ranks and it's not all down to time investment.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
He is saying the brand new player at rank 18 is as good as the rank legend player. He knows this isn't true.
Not to mention he knows he didn't pioneer the Naga / Giants interaction but he was quick to take credit for it, saying "what a coincidence" that the top post on r/competitivehs is about the deck.
Except that top post is a guy who grinded that deck to rank one legend on the wild ladder. Hard to do if Reynad invented the deck yesterday.
Karsticles
Member
The ladder system in HS really sucks for the type of game HS is and completely over-rewards time investment relative to other factors.
Yes, he's being deliberately provocative, its Reynad. Underlying point is valid.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
It's likely that he played the deck off stream before playing it on stream. I obviously don't know. I heard about the deck a couple days ago.
edit:
friday
Yeah, Priest is still the most frustating thing to fight for me. The sad part is they'll likely just ride it out since the important things rotate 'soon', but both decks are so incredibly reliant on drawing specific cards that if they get it on curve the game is damn near a blowout.
Given that bots have hit Legend in the game, I would say that time investment is certainly more important than skill if we are talking about just reaching Legend rank. Of course both attributes are necessary if you want to succeed in the game.... the best player in the world can't rank up without time investment and the worst player in the world cannot progress even with infinite time.
After a certain point, skill just kinda plateaus in the game. It boils down to who plays more at that level. Someone can be the best player in the game but slacks off playing ranked and suddenly drops down hella numbers at the end of the season.
Of course it's easy to tackle the strawman, clearly troll bait arguments that Reynad loves to present.
After a certain point, skill just kinda plateaus in the game. It boils down to who plays more at that level. Someone can be the best player in the game but slacks off playing ranked and suddenly drops down hella numbers at the end of the season.
Of course it's easy to tackle the strawman, clearly troll bait arguments that Reynad loves to present.
He was rank 25 0 stars in wild when he started his stream yesterday.
He took credit for inventing the deck today.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Are you saying bots don't have skill? A "bot" beat the world champ in chess. That doesn't mean chess doesn't take skill. Why even bring up bots? lol. It's like... not even relevant. We're talking about human skill here, right?
Other regions? Specific deck list? I dunno the info here.
Other regions? Specific deck list? I dunno the info here.
Other games like MTG and Poker regularly have large open tournaments where top players consistently do well! That consistency is how people figure out who's really good!
HS does not have this. It has a grindy ladder system that primarily rewards you w/ a "Legend" rank based on a combination of time investment and a baseline skill level. It's easier for a bot to hit Legend because a bot doesn't have to worry about eating, sleeping, working etc. - it's just a bot!
HS does not have this. It has a grindy ladder system that primarily rewards you w/ a "Legend" rank based on a combination of time investment and a baseline skill level. It's easier for a bot to hit Legend because a bot doesn't have to worry about eating, sleeping, working etc. - it's just a bot!
toddhunter
Member
Skill is crucial to reaching legend. Unless you are prepared to play the 2-3 games required to learn pirate warrior or some netdeck druid you will consistently get crushed by more experienced players.
As far as I know Reynad only plays on one region. He spent yesterday in Wild testing the naga/Giants interaction with every class trying to find the best class for that package.
As he started his stream today, someone in chat brought up that the top post on the compHS reddit was about the Naga/Giants interaction and he went "what a coincidence. I can't wait until a month from now when everyone says the interaction was obvious.". This was right after he perma banned someone for saying that weren't a lot of viewers for the stream and right before he said new players at rank 18 have as much skill as most any legend player.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Not sure if you're aware but there definitely are open cups. Biggest one I am aware of is dreamhack which starts with 7 swiss events each in a different major city leading up to DH winter in december.
As for bots, it just shows if you play enough you can get legend even with sub-50 winrate. But no real player can put that in themselves. That bot though, is obviously way better than a typical rank 18 player who just started the game.
Bots getting pretty advance these days man.
That DOTA 2 Shadowfiend bot beat all the DOTA players fucking free!
That said the current crop of bots in HS are like worse than rank 18 players most of the time. Until that changes, bots in HS aren't an indication of any skillful play. Like if you made a tournament of bots versus rank 18 players then the rank 18 players would win.
That's actually a pretty hilarious idea/experiment to try out. Too bad multiple accounts would get banned over it!
That DOTA 2 Shadowfiend bot beat all the DOTA players fucking free!
That said the current crop of bots in HS are like worse than rank 18 players most of the time. Until that changes, bots in HS aren't an indication of any skillful play. Like if you made a tournament of bots versus rank 18 players then the rank 18 players would win.
That's actually a pretty hilarious idea/experiment to try out. Too bad multiple accounts would get banned over it!
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
You only have to look at this topic 3 days back to see how that's not true, but I noticed people were really underrating that deck on reddit, partly because Tempostorm and everyone else was apparently playing it wrong and rated it tier 3 as "Ramp Druid" in their meta snapshot with a link to a bad version of the deck.
Now everyone is no longer underrating the deck. Posts like this might have taught everyone how good it is without reynad, but reynad barely beat out the popularity wave.
As for Giant Hunter, that was also beaten to the punch by at least Mason Steel, and probably others I don't know about, but just the number of viewers reynad gets allows him to basically "invent" any meta shaping wild deck because there's usually so few eyes on wild stuff to give players any direction.
BRB making a Giants Handlock deck and then claim that I "invented it".
Look at this genius level deck building yo!
Look at this genius level deck building yo!
Karsticles
Member
Been trying to climb with Jade Druid all evening. Swap between Pirate Warrior and Egg Druid and make it with only 1 loss
.
Hit rank 10 - final opponent was a guy who was trying some Standard-only Zoolock...lol.
against Pirate Warrior
Hit rank 10 - final opponent was a guy who was trying some Standard-only Zoolock...lol.
Weird. Until nerf I'll be using druid and pirate warrior. After nerf, we'll see.. mage maybe.
Pretty much. I cannot stand Reynad but the underlying point is very true in Hearthstone. Invest enough time and with just a baseline of skill you will reach legend rank.
The ranking system sucks.
Crazyorloco
Member
This is pretty much my experience. It's not even fun anymore going against priest. Just take my all my cards. Congratulations priest players.
We can basically lose in under 4 turns.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Sad thing is it is pretty genius compared to the garbage most people put in their decks.
But yeah, there's enough players out there that someone out there did "invent" a Giant version of every class the minute the interaction was discovered. If I was as popular of a streamer as Reynad I could probably claim I invented Murloc Paladin because I happened to be playing it the day of un'goro release because I thought it would be fun and maybe good, and it was quickly apparent it was very good.
I don't know how you give credit to deck builders when everything is so iterative around mostly obvious possible archetypes. Like 2/3rds of every deck is immediately obvious from the moment you hear the name, even if you've never thought of that archetype before, like Secret C'thun Paladin.
I think deck builders do deserve more credit, but it's hard without looking like Reynad trying to take all the credit.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
If Blizzard takes Innervate they can put mulch into classic to compensate once it's safe.
I made this deck as a joke and I took it to Wild ladder.
I won 3 games in a row on turn 6-7.....
This interaction is hella busted. I am honestly thinking of putting Enhanco Mechano in this deck just to scumbag a Windfury Giant out for the win.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
lol, that might actually be a good idea. Spreading plague is annoying as hell against it, but they'll never expect your giants can get through their taunts being able to attack again.
Priest will be annoyed that their lightbomb wont full clear too. And pirate warrior has to go through giant taunt. Just have to get lucky.
There are services who do this. Of course you have to give your account to them and it's hella illegal but these services do exist (ie. you pay them and they get you to Legend).
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
it's not illegal, breaking the terms of service is just that. You're voiding a contract that will have a hard time to hold up in court, if it comes to that.