Keyser Soze
Member
Druid dont do combo?
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- Thread starter ZealousD
- Start date
Druid dont do combo?
cartographer
Member
Other classes happily play 3 mana 3/2 weapons without taking advantage of synergy. And warriors have strong weapon synergy anyway.
It is far from bad.
Innervate is CF coin. Again, far from bad, especially in druid.
Would not really be surprised if this was the set of changes that made me quit. Something like the Fiery War Axe change is completely shortsighted and hurts Warrior decks not running Pirate cards more than anything else. This hit squad on classic cards is not the sort of thing that helps struggling deck types, but weaken the baseline of the class when they are not running a power deck in the meta. Feel the same way about Hex. Great on pushing people even further towards token decks where they just need to Devolve the board I guess? What happens when Devolve rotates out?
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
Finicky changes like that are the worst kind of balance. Things should be as intuitive and consistent as possible. Making one weapon unable to hit face is not a solution.
BlackBuzzard
Banned
Win Axe for me is just a weird nerf its now worse then any other 3 slot weapon.
Also 9+ Plagues in my collection gimme the dust Blizz.
Also 9+ Plagues in my collection gimme the dust Blizz.
I concede that innervate may still see play, while being much worse than coin in rogue, which isn't stellar , but Fiery war axe is terrible.
The point of playing 3 mana 3/2 weapons is that those other classes aren't weapon classes and as such play subpar weapons. And still, those classes have 3/2 for 3 with good upsides.
Now Warrior has arguably worse weapons than pally. King's defender is worse than rallying blade or coghammer. The best weapon in the game is now Death Bite me thinks.
The point of playing 3 mana 3/2 weapons is that those other classes aren't weapon classes and as such play subpar weapons. And still, those classes have 3/2 for 3 with good upsides.
Now Warrior has arguably worse weapons than pally. King's defender is worse than rallying blade or coghammer. The best weapon in the game is now Death Bite me thinks.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
it does hurt considerably since the health buff served both as healing, to enable value trades, and to get murlocs out of early aoe range.
It doesn't otoh change the potential for murlocs to highroll the shit out of you.
pally and rogue are weapon classes though and hunter gets them occasionally too.
Keyser Soze
Member
You could hold onto it, get a Medivh out early, they use the higher Mana cost of Plague to get some taunts out an a decent 6-drop on Turn 7
Medivh Druid got a buff!
BlackBuzzard
Banned
Maybe winaxe should have been 3mana 3/3 to balance it.
Than give the Axe 2 armor for swinging or just something, why the hell warrior of all class had the worst basic weapon
BananasWithGuns
Member
I don't see any reason why Druid will see less play to be honest.
The Innervate change hurts, sure, but Spreading Plague is still too good to not play and Ultimate Infestation wasn't touched.
cartographer
Member
The upside for Warrior weapon synergy is built into other cards versus the Weapon itself as in other classes. It's more versatile and not limited to specific weapons.
Keyser Soze
Member
You can't confidently deal with a Mana Wyrm or Murloc Tidecaller before they get slightly out of control as a Warrior anymore 
Nerfing Hex w/ Priest lurking is so bad.
It seems like you guys have tunnel vision. Only focusing on just UI and jade idol while blizzard is looking at the big picture.
If hex was changed last year during shamanstone you guys would have been ecstatic. Now you're like Wtf blizzard shaman did nothing wrong.
I don't know if these are the right nerfs but just because they don't directly address the cards you're complaining about doesn't mean they're bad.
They also have to keep in mind the next set they're releasing and the long term viability of basic cards.
I prefer slight tweaks to giant nerfhammers anyway.
If hex was changed last year during shamanstone you guys would have been ecstatic. Now you're like Wtf blizzard shaman did nothing wrong.
I don't know if these are the right nerfs but just because they don't directly address the cards you're complaining about doesn't mean they're bad.
They also have to keep in mind the next set they're releasing and the long term viability of basic cards.
I prefer slight tweaks to giant nerfhammers anyway.
Rogue has the better weapons and weapon sinergy. Which may intended, but still. It's a huge shift in class identity.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
If you think nothing changes, I just want to point out every top aggressive list was hit. token druid, murloc paladin, pirate warrior and then the top druid list jade druid. This hits 90% of the top metagame atm.
You run coins outside of combo decks too. Most miracle decks aren't even combo anymore. I haven't seen much combo decks for rogue since like MSG.
You run coins outside of combo decks too. Most miracle decks aren't even combo anymore. I haven't seen much combo decks for rogue since like MSG.
Much harder to pull off ridiculously stupid UI turns without the extra mana from innervate though.
After reading the article I am satisfied with the changes, even though I don't think I would have done them this way. I appreciate they are sticking to their guns and not moving anything to Hall of Fame mid-year, especially because a lot of these cards are equally if not MORE problematic in Wild.
The innervate change is probably the best thing they could do to maintain the soul of the card. Turning it into a coin effect is pretty weak, but the card was OP AF, so they were kinda in a bad place here.
FWA change puts it in line with Eaglehorn Bow and makes it kinda bad. The card was too good at 2 cost and everyone, everywhere knew it. This is another case of damned if you and damned if you don't. If they made it 2 attack the weapon would be even worse than it is at 3 mana. As a bonus, this change hits Pirate Warrior REALLY hard. That deck uses FWA more aggressively than any other warrior archetype so taking it down a peg without affecting the control decks is important for the health of the class.
Spreading Plague was a good choice for a change over UI. Apparently this is a controversial statement? Plague is the thing that lets druids wall out aggro so they can run and play the greediest shit possible like nourishing for crystals every time. I mean when you think about it, using Nourish for Crystals was considered one of the worst possible plays before this expansion. The things that changed were UI adding better card draw and Plague making the aggro match up a non-factor. All the card draw in the world isn't going to help druid if they can't avoid losses to stuff like Pirates and aggro Murlocs. (although maybe those decks won't be so good anymore...)
The innervate change is probably the best thing they could do to maintain the soul of the card. Turning it into a coin effect is pretty weak, but the card was OP AF, so they were kinda in a bad place here.
FWA change puts it in line with Eaglehorn Bow and makes it kinda bad. The card was too good at 2 cost and everyone, everywhere knew it. This is another case of damned if you and damned if you don't. If they made it 2 attack the weapon would be even worse than it is at 3 mana. As a bonus, this change hits Pirate Warrior REALLY hard. That deck uses FWA more aggressively than any other warrior archetype so taking it down a peg without affecting the control decks is important for the health of the class.
Spreading Plague was a good choice for a change over UI. Apparently this is a controversial statement? Plague is the thing that lets druids wall out aggro so they can run and play the greediest shit possible like nourishing for crystals every time. I mean when you think about it, using Nourish for Crystals was considered one of the worst possible plays before this expansion. The things that changed were UI adding better card draw and Plague making the aggro match up a non-factor. All the card draw in the world isn't going to help druid if they can't avoid losses to stuff like Pirates and aggro Murlocs. (although maybe those decks won't be so good anymore...)
cartographer
Member
That doesn't erase warriors synergy though. It's just disingenuous to act like War Axe has no synergy like other 3 mana 3/2s when that synergy is available to every Warrior weapon. That's all.
SonicXtreme
Member
the worst part is jack for free dust from the nerfs ((
((Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Considering I'd need something like 6000 dust to complete raza priest I'll instead craft Jaina since I need 0 other cards for that deck.
Yes. They've consistently been a problem.
BlackBuzzard
Banned
the worst part is jack for free dust from the nerfs
100 dust per Plague and 400 for warleader.
Alright time for a less knee jerk response to these changes.
Warleader: Best change of the set IMO. The change is such that both Murloc decks and this card are still good enough to see play which should be the goal of balance changes. Most importantly, this change removes the dumb interaction of Finja suiciding himself into a big minion, then resurrecting itself to 1 HP due to Warleader being cheated out of the deck.
Spreading Plague: Another solid change, 1 mana can be the difference between win and loss against aggro. This card should still be played in Druid decks as even now it's a good enough card to play.
Hex: This change doesn't really impact things much. It will still see about the same amount of play as before in decks that need tor run Hex. It still gives you less mana to work with in the late game though which is where the nerf is significant. Honestly this should've been set to 4 mana last year when they were going ham with the Shaman changes.
Innervate: The big change that everyone was expecting and god damn is it a lazy one... I get that they want to make basic cards easier to understand but I still feel they could've just done the "replenish 2 mana crystals" change. In any case, Innervate will now not be an auto include two of in Druid decks. I think maybe Aggro Druids still run it and Token/Spell based Druids still run it but it's less likely to be usable in slower Druid decks but we'll see. We still have to deal with turn 1 Vicious Fledgling (if you are going 2nd) so there is still chance of Druid scumming out wins with this. This card is definitely not unplayable now but the change is very flat.
War Axe: Win Axe forever rest in peace. I do not like this change at all. This is clearly a bad response to fixing Pirate Warriors when everyone knows what the real problem is. So now Pirate Warriors are nerfed but this nerfs every other Warrior deck as well especially Control Warrior decks which are in a rough spot at the moment.
Meta game implications:
Pirate Warrior and Murloc Paladins nerfed but not enough to not be run commonly. PW have it worse because now they have more 3 drops than they need and less 2 drops than before.
Jade Druids and Druid decks in general nerfed but not enough to not be run commonly. I think that Midrange Token Druid deck is hit hardest though, same for most Combo/Malygos type Druid decks.
Priest remains untouched, probably tier 1 now.
These changes are not that bad but they probably should have hinted at these changes in advance to prepare the community. I expect a lot of knee jerk reactions over this and especially over cards that didn't get changed like UI.
Warleader: Best change of the set IMO. The change is such that both Murloc decks and this card are still good enough to see play which should be the goal of balance changes. Most importantly, this change removes the dumb interaction of Finja suiciding himself into a big minion, then resurrecting itself to 1 HP due to Warleader being cheated out of the deck.
Spreading Plague: Another solid change, 1 mana can be the difference between win and loss against aggro. This card should still be played in Druid decks as even now it's a good enough card to play.
Hex: This change doesn't really impact things much. It will still see about the same amount of play as before in decks that need tor run Hex. It still gives you less mana to work with in the late game though which is where the nerf is significant. Honestly this should've been set to 4 mana last year when they were going ham with the Shaman changes.
Innervate: The big change that everyone was expecting and god damn is it a lazy one... I get that they want to make basic cards easier to understand but I still feel they could've just done the "replenish 2 mana crystals" change. In any case, Innervate will now not be an auto include two of in Druid decks. I think maybe Aggro Druids still run it and Token/Spell based Druids still run it but it's less likely to be usable in slower Druid decks but we'll see. We still have to deal with turn 1 Vicious Fledgling (if you are going 2nd) so there is still chance of Druid scumming out wins with this. This card is definitely not unplayable now but the change is very flat.
War Axe: Win Axe forever rest in peace. I do not like this change at all. This is clearly a bad response to fixing Pirate Warriors when everyone knows what the real problem is. So now Pirate Warriors are nerfed but this nerfs every other Warrior deck as well especially Control Warrior decks which are in a rough spot at the moment.
Meta game implications:
Pirate Warrior and Murloc Paladins nerfed but not enough to not be run commonly. PW have it worse because now they have more 3 drops than they need and less 2 drops than before.
Jade Druids and Druid decks in general nerfed but not enough to not be run commonly. I think that Midrange Token Druid deck is hit hardest though, same for most Combo/Malygos type Druid decks.
Priest remains untouched, probably tier 1 now.
These changes are not that bad but they probably should have hinted at these changes in advance to prepare the community. I expect a lot of knee jerk reactions over this and especially over cards that didn't get changed like UI.
the worst part is jack for free dust from the nerfs
Speak for yourself. I'll be raking in the dust from my 8 Spreading Plagues one of which is golden.
they are a constant problem. murlocadin is the highest winrate after druid decks
BlackBuzzard
Banned
Warleader is def the best nerf of the bunch.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I think the FWA change is solid tbh. I think it'll still see play too. It's a bit problematic having cards like innervate and FWA be an include in almost every single deck since the game started. Also the cards were both pretty busted in terms of power level, unlike say a frostbolt or eviscerate, which actually have been cut from some decks for their respective classes.
I was on board for 3 mana FWA back in MSG, also back in warrior dominance of what I recall was OG where they nerfed execute instead. I am still on board with it.
I was on board for 3 mana FWA back in MSG, also back in warrior dominance of what I recall was OG where they nerfed execute instead. I am still on board with it.
Yeah, half an innervate is still a broken card, as Rogue has shown, especially if Druids start running Auctioneer again.
slightconfuse
Banned
Those nerfs are insane especially war axe.
Also why are they nerfing hex????
Also why are they nerfing hex????
veryslowhand
Banned
I liked to play token druid while it lasted, now will be gone.
SonicXtreme
Member
lol nice , warleader isn't worth dusting if you play finja/murloc decks though, it's still auto include, just not as insane as it was
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
People were already running mire keeper and innervate.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Reminds me of the Yogg patch when everyone wanted Shaman nerfed and it ended up being a buff for Shaman.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
wild growth
No it's Jade Idol, I was making a rhetorical statement. We have the stats on it already, Jade Idol is actually well above both Innervate and Spreading Plague.
Though Jade Idol stats are a bit skewered because the card's power level gets stronger each time it is played in a game and it is played more than twice in a game sometimes. A late game Jade Idol summoning a 1 mana 7/7 is hella busted. If you make it to the late game and are able to play multiple Jade Idols then you are positioned to win anyway.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
To be fair, FWA is what made that card garbage in comparison. 3 mana 3/2 weapons have often found a place in hunter and paladin decks just for being 3/2 weapons.