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Hearthstone |OT9| Our raid wiped in Icecrown Citadel

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
Unless there are better ways to earn dust, this seems like it would be very challenging.

If they refunded dust and let you re-buy the new standard/classic cards that could work.

1. Funnel all existing basic cards and Hall of Fame cards into the classic set.
2. Make the classic set wild-only.
3. Create a new core set every two years, and give away all core set cards for free. The key is to make the core set relatively small.
4. Repeat process every couple of years.
 
too confusing, the average hearthstone player can only distinguish when a large number in front of their face changes by 1, if you did something drastic like gave them a bunch of cards they would be very angry/confused and stop playing HS
 

zoukka

Member
1. Funnel all existing basic cards and Hall of Fame cards into the classic set.
2. Make the classic set wild-only.
3. Create a new core set every two years, and give away all core set cards for free. The key is to make the core set relatively small.
4. Repeat process every couple of years.

Lmao
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
Brand new core set every 2 years sounds very unfeasible.

Hall of fame, nerf, or redesign like 30 cards of the evergreen set, maybe even buff a few of the most terrible cards, and it's fine.
 
Ben Brode responded to a few reddit threads today, nicely detailed in this article:

http://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/...ing-nerfs-fiery-war-axe-murloc-warleader-etc/

Hmm

The issue becomes apparent in the way Brode is talking about metas and cards played. Because Hearthstone is unique and that there is a standard list of cards that never rotate out, it creates issues where these cards are obviously going to be overused, and in certain cases are going to be overpowered.

Magic, Pokemon, and Yu-Gi-Oh all rotate out cards. There is no 'standard' set. There are reprints of cards with similar affects, but essentially each expansion you have to create a new deck from the new set of cards.

Brode mentions " Our goal isn’t to cripple archetypes. Control Warrior needs control cards, yes, but is it fun to play the same cards every year?" and the answer is, yes it is. Because they only rotate out very small selections into the Hall of Fame each year, you're going to have to utilize cards from the basic set. It's not a matter of if it's fun or if you have a choice, but that is how it is because each new set doesn't bring in a sufficient amount of class cards to replace those standard cards.
 

jerd

Member
Gotta rant for a second. I've never been a believer in the whole "the game tries to give you bad matchups" thing until now. Played hand buff paladin from 20-16, nothing but priest, druid, murloc paladin, all no problem. Them I get hit with 3 straight token shaman, which idk the stats but has to be the deck's worst matchup since you really don't have removal and devolve makes your entire deck irrelevant. Switch to warlock and get a mirror and a druid. Think I'm fine to go back to hand buff and see two more token shaman.

Blizz is out to get me clearly they're scared of me taking over the hs scene.
 
And then there's examples of where, because the standard set never rotates out, issues are created with new sets. And it's a major reason of why card games tend to always rotate out old sets.

Innervate, Wild Growth, Nourish. They're good cards, but with the inclusion of Ultimate Infestation, they became egregious. Suddenly a Druids goal isn't to get ahead in mana or having spells with a meaningful choice, it's to completely empty out their hand, and to hit the goal of drawing their deck and dumping it at a faster pace than the opponent can react to. Because of UI, Druid jumped to the complete top of the list of being broken in a severe way. Because of cards like Malfurion the Pestilent or Spreading Plague, a Druid stopped having to worry about having to stop an opponents board from filling up.

It's a precarious situation, for sure.
 

Hycran

Banned
The thing that I like the most about the nerfs is that fiery win axe is always fun to play and they couched it's nerf as if it was a drag. I'm sure now that the Meta will accommodate tentacles for arms and the knuckles elegiggle
 
here is my drakkari enchanter priest, for anyone who wants to have some fun with that card

### END OF TURNS
# Class: Priest
# Format: Wild
#
# 2x (1) Northshire Cleric
# 2x (1) Power Word: Shield
# 2x (2) Resurrect
# 2x (2) Shadow Ascendant
# 2x (2) Shadow Visions
# 2x (3) Drakkari Enchanter
# 2x (3) Mirage Caller
# 1x (4) Barnes
# 2x (4) Eternal Servitude
# 2x (5) Cobalt Scalebane
# 2x (5) Onyx Bishop
# 1x (6) Emperor Thaurissan
# 2x (6) Shadow Essence
# 1x (8) Free From Amber
# 1x (8) Kel'Thuzad
# 1x (8) Ragnaros the Firelord
# 1x (9) Obsidian Statue
# 1x (9) Ysera
# 1x (10) Y'Shaarj, Rage Unbound
#
AAEBAa0GCPYCogmCDtYRqKsChbgCmcgC5swCC+UE8gz6Ec6zAsPBAtHBAsrLAs7MAuXMArTOAv3hAgA=
#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone
68DUYso.png

here is an example game of how it can run away, cleric into ascendent into mirage caller for ascendents and just gone, 5 mana ragnaros + drakkari enchanter to close out vs lich king and 8 health
https://hsreplay.net/replay/DBLstk6Sbmv5uE6ch42Sb6

i tried hogger for the lulz but nah

u can ditch onyx biship for lightbomb or dragonfire but i go max greed for max salt
i should add sylvanas
 

G.ZZZ

Member
Also, beside Wild being all Priest, i wanna complain about another thing.

All nerfs (except warleader) made cards cost 1 more. Why was innervate reduced to 1 mana produced instead!?!? Had it costed 1 not only it would have been slightly worse with UI and Auctioneer, but it also would have differentiated it from Counterfeit Coin. Ugh, i hate that there are two perfectly identical cards in different classes.

"we prefer nerfing mana costs because it's easier to see the change" - nerf innervate to be the same card as counterfeit coin NotLikeThis

EDIT: Also, at this point, since it seems they want to nerf every card from the basic set instead of just removing the basic set from standard to make buying new sets more appealing, a list of future nerfs:

- wild growth, 3 mana changed to : choose 1 , gain 1 mana crystal or draw a card (remove the confusion about it drawing a card at 10 mana etc...)
- mana wyrm, changed to 2 mana: we think 1 mana creatures should be answerable and mana wyrm is often not counterable easily and as such bla bla bla
- frost bolt, 3 mana: we need to open design space because frost bolt make designing new burn spells too dangerous because critical mass of spells bla bla bla
- fireball 5 mana: we wanted mage to have the best damage spells, but fireball is obviously intimidating to new players and too often remove much more expensive creatures, making people feel bad, also it has been part of every combo bad bla bla bla
- backstab changed to deal 1 damage: we think that class identity is really important, so after nerfing the weapon class to have worse weapons than other classes, we're gonna make druid and rogue the same class slowly but steadly. After counterfeit coin being innervate, backstab is changed to moonfire. Coming soon, Nourish changed to 7 mana draw 4.
- acidic swamp ooze changed to 3 mana, players like playing cards, and they don't like when said cards get destroyed. As such, acidic swamp ooze was a bit too efficient at removing cards, so we're nerfing it slightly. We're confident it's still gonna be a card that see play in some very specific metagames instead that in only somewhat specific metagames. Also, you can find gluttonous ooze in Un'Goro packs.
- Power: word shield changed to 2 mana: since purify is played alraedy, PWS should also cost 2. Free cyclers are bad for deck variety and all that blablablabal
- Savage Roar changed to 4 mana: cost was changed to bring it more in line with Bloodlust. No seriously.
- Shadow Word: Death , changed to 4 mana. We've found that this card gained too much tempo for priests when they could play it. Since priest shouldn't have tempo efficient answers because of its class identity, we've increased its cost to 4. Board clears don't count.
- Stonetusk Boar: changed to 2 mana. Over time, we've seen that in problematic decks, this card tend to appear. With this nerf, we hope to reduce the appearance of problematic decks.
- Wolfrider: changed to 4 mana. See Stonetusk Boar.
 
Also, beside Wild being all Priest, i wanna complain about another thing.

All nerfs (except warleader) made cards cost 1 more. Why was innervate reduced to 1 mana produced instead!?!? Had it costed 1 not only it would have been slightly worse with UI and Auctioneer, but it also would have differentiated it from Counterfeit Coin. Ugh, i hate that there are two perfectly identical cards in different classes.

"we prefer nerfing mana costs because it's easier to see the change" - nerf innervate to be the same card as counterfeit coin NotLikeThis

uh

making it cost 1 would make it the same exact thing as counterfeit coin. Except, you know, it does a backwards thing of costing 1 for 2 mana. It'd be obtuse to make it cost 1, and give you two tbh.
 

G.ZZZ

Member
uh

making it cost 1 would make it the same exact thing as counterfeit coin. Except, you know, it does a backwards thing of costing 1 for 2 mana. It'd be obtuse to make it cost 1, and give you two tbh.

Except it's not the same thing?

At 1 it can't be a starter. That's a significant difference when you spam card draw spells.
 
also i would be very careful about calling pirate warrior dead. murlocs could swarm their minions pretty well and their captain is better at boards now. they still have insane face tools and spreading plague got worse. patches has avoided nerf just like ultimate infestation LOL
 

scarlet

Member
Actually their reasoning for FWA, happened to me with shaman's ice breaker.

Played as priest, got the weapon. Keep attacking minion twice in 2 turns, and wondering why it didn't kill them, cuz I didn't read the card stats, only the mana. :|
 
I think this is really the first time they have gone after class defining cards. Before when they nerfed basic cards it was usually the side basic cards that were just generic removal or damage cards.
Hall of Fame hit at least 2 Class Defining cards for mage and warlock

At some point I'm sure they'll have to rework the dust system. These changes just confirmed to me that Team 5 hates the idea of everlasting sets or free sets. Decks will become more expensive for sure.
DEcks already have become more expensive since they have built deck archetypes largely around legendaries for 2 sets now as well as pushing highlander.
 

Bunga

Member
Remember yesterday when I said I was struggling with ladder and that I was switching to Druid?

Guess what? 10 game win streak so far. Class is ridiculous.
 
Except it's not the same thing?

At 1 it can't be a starter. That's a significant difference when you spam card draw spells.

It..is?

Spend 1 mana to gain two.

Turn 1, you use it, you end up with 2 mana.

As it is now-Get 1 mana. You end up with 2 mana.

The only downside is you can't use it when you've ran out of mana, so it'd actually be a worse nerf than just making it give 1 mana.
 

FeD.nL

Member
Druid reaching 10 mana while im on 5 mana, glad this pos class is getting nerfed to hell.

I don't think Jade Druid is getting much weaker tbh. If anything it gets stronger because some of their 'worst' matchups are getting nerfed harder than they are.
 

zoukka

Member
Remember yesterday when I said I was struggling with ladder and that I was switching to Druid?

Guess what? 10 game win streak so far. Class is ridiculous.

It can work the other way around too. I'm seeing nothing but quest mage in my rank and my druid decks are completely useless.

I don't think Jade Druid is getting much weaker tbh. If anything it gets stronger because some of their 'worst' matchups are getting nerfed harder than they are.

Mage was not nerfed.
 

Bunga

Member
It can work the other way around too. I'm seeing nothing but quest mage in my rank and my druid decks are completely useless

Yes, I'm seeing increasing numbers of Quest Mage as well but thankfully I seem to be getting the nuts in my opening hand every time so I'm steamrolling them before they get the combo. Definitely the only match up I go into though where I think there's a chance of losing. I know it isn't, but Jade Druid feels untouchable to me when I go into a game against any other class.
 

G.ZZZ

Member
It..is?

Spend 1 mana to gain two.

Turn 1, you use it, you end up with 2 mana.

As it is now-Get 1 mana. You end up with 2 mana.

The only downside is you can't use it when you've ran out of mana, so it'd actually be a worse nerf than just making it give 1 mana.

So it's not the same thing ? The difference is particularly relevant when you play 2 nourish 2 innervates
 

Hybris

Member
Nah pirate warr is pretty dead at least in standard

Its worse than the time they had to play huge toad as minion even

I think it can survive. Significantly weaker, but forge of souls definitely gets put into the deck now. They need something on 2, and that card helps their game plan of repeated damage from weapons.
 

Fewr

Member
I tried the hunter DK today for the first time, and had tons of fun with it. I love the card, it's probably my favourite so far in this expansion.
 

Hycran

Banned
I really wish you got a one Mana discount on the Zombeasts. I guess they tested that and it was too strong though.

Zombeasts with a one mana discount would be absurd. Every time I see a zombeast played I always think, well, it's a beast how bad can it be? But the way stats and abilities are cobbled together make the cards far more valuable than the mana cost alone.

Ironically, if it did happen maybe hunter would be viable although probably not.
 

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
I like how they admit shaman has no identity, that's very true.

That's kind of the drawback of using WoW classes as the baseline. In WoW, Shaman is basically "do everything at once". Melee damage. Spell damage. Healing.

Druid was "do everything, but at separate times" and so they might have had similar problems, but their mana spells gave Blizzard an out to play with Ramp in the class.
 

Haines

Banned
Probably two weeks.

Where did that guess come from? Why would they tell is two weeks away?

I was hoping for more like today during the scheduled mainetnenace

Shamans identity to me was always high power at a cost, and go wide with minions. I actually love the hex nerf. That shit was boring to play against, and needed smacked a bit.

Now it will feel like a poly, and i can love with that.
 
Where did that guess come from? Why would they tell is two weeks away?

I was hoping for more like today during the scheduled mainetnenace
HCT playoffs. People already submitted deck lists before nerfs were announced. Safe to say at least those will run their course before implementation.
 

wiibomb

Member
Where did that guess come from? Why would they tell is two weeks away?

I was hoping for more like today during the scheduled mainetnenace

they never announce changes and make them overnight.

in the best case this is 1 week away, but considering the HCT playoffs, this is at least 2 weeks away. maintenance in HS never come with updates to clients.
 

Nachos

Member
Where did that guess come from? Why would they tell is two weeks away?

I was hoping for more like today during the scheduled mainetnenace
The announcement didn't have a single mention of a patch date. If the patch were coming today, they'd have said so.
 
The teams looked really unbalanced. But reynad is a solid deck builder and he might be able to make up for kripp... lol. Dunno the third player on team light.

It might not be so slanted because of kripp's audience though. Team light might just get the most card packs lol
 

TankUP

Member
The teams looked really unbalanced. But reynad is a solid deck builder and he might be able to make up for kripp... lol. Dunno the third player on team light.

It might not be so slanted because of kripp's audience though. Team light might just get the most card packs lol

Allie is Jackie's teammate on F2K and probably equal in skill to him, so I think they cancel each other out.

So sign up for Amazon Prime/Twitch Prime choose Team Light and proceed to concede as many matches as possible. Ready.

You'd get the same effect just not participating at all, LOL.
 

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
So no real benefits for the playerbase? Just a community event for the streamers?
 
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