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Hearthstone |OT9| Our raid wiped in Icecrown Citadel

Q

QFNS

Unconfirmed Member
Quest/Taunt Warrior is a wonderful deck to play when you don't want to think that hard and need to grind up some ranks. It's not going to do the work to get you to legend probably since I bet up there playing it on autopilot isn't gonna cut it anymore, but from 20-10 you probably can play while watching netflix or whatever and do some chillstone.

That's why I'm liking it. It might not be the most interesting to play as (currently looks like Exodia Mage or Quest Rogue is there for me), nor the actual winning-est deck (probably Midrange Hunter or elemental something), but its straightforward and fun.
 
Y

Yaboosh

Super Sleuth
Egg druid rocketed me from 13-10 yesterday in wild. Firefly feels pretty good in that deck, similar to echoing ooze but better at filling out a curve. Worse with mark of the wild obviously but that seldom happens anyway.
 
B

BananasWithGuns

Member
Turn 3 10/10 Van Cleef.

Seems fine. Yep. Nothing wrong with that.

Edit: Fuck it, I'll just craft the rest of what I need for Miracle Rogue. The deck is completely broken.
 
V

vall03

Member
What are the thoughts on Jungle Giants and Tyrantus? Out of the Legendaries that I got from packs, those are the ones that I'm not so sure about. I need some dust to craft epics and those two are my top disenchant targets along with maybe Nozdormu.
 
B

bjaelke

Member
1871 said:
Pretty sure you can get a 8/8 first turn.

Miracle is actually less strong than it used to be.
Click to expand...
Why stop at 8/8?
AjuQKR6.png
Click to expand...
 
Y

Yaboosh

Super Sleuth
vall03 said:
What are the thoughts on Jungle Giants and Tyrantus? Out of the Legendaries that I got from packs, those are the ones that I'm not so sure about. I need some dust to craft epics and those two are my top disenchant targets along with maybe Nozdormu.
Click to expand...


Strictly for having fun with ramp druid. Seems mostly terrible. Could theoretically become relevant in future metas/expansions, but probably not.
 
G

Grief.exe

Member
Freeze Mage looks so much fun to play. Just very expensive since I'm missing so many classic cards. I would dust all my spares to try to make f2p decks back then.
 
F

Familienoberhauptvogel

Banned
Lyng said:
No decks are difficult in Hearthstone, but Freeze mage, Sherazin rogue, quest priest all require more skill then quest Rogue. Only taunt and pirate warrior are easier.
Click to expand...

I never understood why miracoli was supposed to be all that difficult. Like always you play to your draw you just draw more.

Quest priest isn't even a good deck.
 
M

Mobius and pet octopus

Member
1871 said:
Pretty sure you can get a 8/8 first turn.

Miracle is actually less strong than it used to be.
Click to expand...

I think it's stronger in a way because some of the horrible match ups are better, like shaman. The loss of conceal, pillager, and drake wasn't as big as people thought it would be. I predicted conceal would be the hardest to go on without, but knowing arcane giants was held back by conceal decks... I felt arcane giants would actually be good replacement.

What miracle rogue did also gain was a good 2 drop, a good spell (hallucination), a good 4 drop (sherazin), decent draw (mimic pod), and excellent hard removal (vilespine slayer and to some extent envenom although it's not seeing play atm).
 
B

BananasWithGuns

Member
So, crafted the cards I was missing. Instantly win 4 straight lol.

At least with this version of Miracle Rogue I can actually have fun with a tier 1 deck as opposed to something like Pirate Warrior which is an absolute snooze fest.
 
C

cHinzo

Member
I reslly should craft two Primordial Glyphs, since I expect them to be included in every mage deck for the next two years. Why are they epics. 😫
 
H

Htown

STOP SHITTING ON MY MOTHER'S HEADSTONE
sibarraz said:
I'm trying midrange hunter
Click to expand...

tech in deadly shot and/or hunter's mark

that said, it is a pretty bad matchup if you can't get ahead early

also, save your kill commands if at all possible. if you have a choice between using a minion to clear a taunt and using kill command, use the minion

you need as much damage that bypasses taunt as possible
 
S

sibarraz

Banned
Htown said:
tech in deadly shot and/or hunter's mark

that said, it is a pretty bad matchup if you can't get ahead early

also, save your kill commands if at all possible. if you have a choice between using a minion to clear a taunt and using kill command, use the minion

you need as much damage that bypasses taunt as possible
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tips!

Should I replace an eaglehorn bow for deadly shot? or another minion?
 
oktarb

oktarb

Member
Well the quests killed this game for me. Every match is just a race to complete your quest and there no counters that I've seen. I've played since launch and weathered each iteration but these quests are just game killers for me. I knew I was done once i started conceding as soon as i saw the quest played. Those matches just aren't fun.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Any deck with a lot of draw potential/option is a higher skill deck than normal. If you don't have the option to draw then you are mostly playing from hand where as if you have draw options then you are playing from your deck. Knowing when to draw and when not to draw to increase win chances is what makes these decks harder to play than average.

It is way harder to play Miracoli than Midrange Hunter. Hunter has no draw so it's just playing from hand and their combos/synergies are straightforward with little long term game planning. And I have someone who has played Midrange Hunter a lot especially at higher ranks... but Miracoli is a different beast. It's the only deck in the game I don't do as well as I do with other decks.

Same is also true for Zoolock and Handlock because they always have access to draw option so they will always be harder to master decks.
 
Z

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
oktarb said:
Well the quests killed this game for me. Every match is just a race to complete your quest and there no counters that I've seen. I've played since launch and weathered each iteration but these quests are just game killers for me. I knew I was done once i started conceding as soon as i saw the quest played. Those matches just aren't fun.
Click to expand...

What quests are you having trouble against?
 
F

Familienoberhauptvogel

Banned
This new version of miracoli doesn't even have that much draw. Draws from auctioneer are much less weighted as you're going all in with it and the skill is more in making the correct choices quick.
Draw isn't the end all be all decider for skill either and living of the top of the deck has completely different outlets for skill.
I agree that Zoo is one of the more difficult decks but that's also because positioning matters so much. Something UnGoro introduced playing around to the game again in the form of meteor and grievous bite and such only issue being that they are discovered not played.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Familienoberhauptvogel said:
This new version of miracoli doesn't even have that much draw. Draws from auctioneer are much less weighted as you're going all in with it and the skill is more in making the correct choices quick.
Draw isn't the end all be all decider for skill either and living of the top of the deck has completely different outlets for skill.
I agree that Zoo is one of the more difficult decks but that's also because positioning matters so much. Something UnGoro introduced playing around to the game again in the form of meteor and grievous bite and such only issue being that they are discovered not played.
Click to expand...

Of course draw isn't the only thing that makes a deck harder to play.

Combo decks are in general harder to play especially those ones where some of the combo pieces can be used for board control or other purposes.

Minion based decks that need positioning and playing minions with lots of effects that are situational is also skill based. Knowing when to play Ravasaur Runt on curve with no buff and when to save it is a skill. This also is relevant for minions with "Combo" effects as in Rogue's case.


Miracoli has the added issue of the "all in" plays where at some point it can pull the trigger and dump all their cards/coins for a massive play. That's similar to Druid's Innervate only it's even more risk/reward because more cards are involved. If you pull the full combo and get punished you lose the game... but it can also win you the game. That element of risk also makes it tougher to play. By contrast Zoo doesn't have a lot of all in plays like that... sometimes you might go all in a Doomguard double discard play to gain advantage but there aren't a lot of other cases like that.


A lot of Miracoli is sitting on cards that are playable at any time because they are 0 mana but you wait for the correct moment. Unlike minions where a ton of them you can just play on curve and be fine with them, with the Rogue's 0 mana spell arsenal... technically you can use that whenever but knowing when to use them is a big skill divider. A Counterfeit Coin can be used whenever and thus is one of the highest skill cards in the Rogue's deck.
 
G

Grief.exe

Member
oktarb said:
Well the quests killed this game for me. Every match is just a race to complete your quest and there no counters that I've seen. I've played since launch and weathered each iteration but these quests are just game killers for me. I knew I was done once i started conceding as soon as i saw the quest played. Those matches just aren't fun.
Click to expand...

The data actually shows the majority of quest decks are underperforming.
 
oktarb

oktarb

Member
ZealousD said:
What quests are you having trouble against?
Click to expand...
There's not one quest in particular that troubles me, it's the mechanic overall. The decks that are built around the quests are a mad dash to get the OP prize from the quest. These decks are just boring to play against. I can beat a quest deck (not every time) but I get no joy when facing them.

I guess its the forced theme like C'Thun. I preferred facing decks that were self constructed themes. Quests and C'Thun essentially force a theme. C'thun I could counter, hold a sheep or a similiar giant killer. I get no enjoyment watching someone play a 1 cost critter, unsummon, resummon it, unsummon it just to meet the quest criteria. meanwhile there's no count to the quest criteria. You can't stop someone from summoning deathrattle cards or cards of the same name. Then you're facing infinite 5/5's.

I acknowledge that the game will continue to evolve and these quests will probably fall out of favor for the new flavor but for now its a pile of yuck for me.
 
Q

QFNS

Unconfirmed Member
Dirty Rat x2 is essential in every deck that is facing quest decks.

If you Dirty rat one of their quest pieces that gives you the advantage. Anyone trying to beat a quest deck should be playing 2x Dirty Rat. That card is GODLIKE in this meta.
 
B

bjaelke

Member
QFNS said:
Dirty Rat x2 is essential in every deck that is facing quest decks.

If you Dirty rat one of their quest pieces that gives you the advantage. Anyone trying to beat a quest deck should be playing 2x Dirty Rat. That card is GODLIKE in this meta.
Click to expand...

I'd rather Mind Vision their Quest and make a race out of it.
 
B

butts

Member
Rank 16 is a hellish fucking nightmare. Just played a perfect curve pirate warrior who then played GEDDON on 7 into fucking BRAWL on 8 to win the 50/50. I don't even know anymore.
 
F

Familienoberhauptvogel

Banned
Dahbomb said:
Of course draw isn't the only thing that makes a deck harder to play.

Combo decks are in general harder to play especially those ones where some of the combo pieces can be used for board control or other purposes.

Minion based decks that need positioning and playing minions with lots of effects that are situational is also skill based. Knowing when to play Ravasaur Runt on curve with no buff and when to save it is a skill. This also is relevant for minions with "Combo" effects as in Rogue's case.

Miracoli has the added issue of the "all in" plays where at some point it can pull the trigger and dump all their cards/coins for a massive play. That's similar to Druid's Innervate only it's even more risk/reward because more cards are involved. If you pull the full combo and get punished you lose the game... but it can also win you the game. That element of risk also makes it tougher to play. By contrast Zoo doesn't have a lot of all in plays like that... sometimes you might go all in a Doomguard double discard play to gain advantage but there aren't a lot of other cases like that.

A lot of Miracoli is sitting on cards that are playable at any time because they are 0 mana but you wait for the correct moment. Unlike minions where a ton of them you can just play on curve and be fine with them, with the Rogue's 0 mana spell arsenal... technically you can use that whenever but knowing when to use them is a big skill divider. A Counterfeit Coin can be used whenever and thus is one of the highest skill cards in the Rogue's deck.
Click to expand...
I don't think Combo decks are all that much harder. You get a feeling for how much resources you can trade and how much damage you have left in the deck through experience. If you're running a deck tracker you don't even need a feel you can just count.

This new form of Miracle Rogue is minion based. There's no conceal turn anymore that sets up 1 turn lethal. You're playing a value game and are vying for board control, Evis on minions is better than it's ever been.

Zoo is all in by nature, they have no tools to recover losing the board but to play multiple low drops at the cost of life.
With Questing there definitely were huge risks involved because you had to commit prior to going off but on variants with more damage from hand options the decisions got simpler with every card drawn.

Fair point on the coin it's definitely one of the more skill requiring cards. Especially now with Pillager gone.
 
M

Mobius and pet octopus

Member
Ever since I hit rank 1 full stars I've faced egg druid, freeze mage, pirate warrior... over and over and over. edit: weird browser error

At least I won the last egg druid match and the last pirate warrior... but I haven't won one freeze mage iirc
 
Q

QFNS

Unconfirmed Member
Ladekabel said:
Man, the Taunt Warrior feels like is mostly decided by who goes first.
Click to expand...

The Mirror match is almost entirely decided by who completes the quest first.

Going first really has very little to do with that generally. Just who has more draws and plays out their taunts quicker.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Mirror is decided by who gets the quest hero power first assuming equal board/HP states.

That depends on who gets taunts in their opening hands or draws.

Stonehill Defender is the best card in the match up because it double dips.
 
L

Ladekabel

Member
squidyj said:
it's really not.
Click to expand...

QFNS said:
The Mirror match is almost entirely decided by who completes the quest first.

Going first really has very little to do with that generally. Just who has more draws and plays out their taunts quicker.
Click to expand...

I just had three mirrors against Taunt Warrior where I went second. If you go second your trying to catch up the rest of the time. The only method against that is if your opponent draws really shitty.
 
Z

Zemm

Member
I think there's only been a few decks that have been tricky to play, patron warrior required the most thought probably. Current Warrior has gone the complete opposite way and pirate and quest are braindead easy. I used to love warrior but I can't even play it now because those two decks are so boring.
 
S

squidyj

Member
Getting sulfuras first is an advantage but it doesn't necessarily determine victory. I've won plenty of mirrors where I didn't manage to get sulfuras first.
 
Z

Zakalwe

Banned
Those of you playing Elemental Shaman, have you tech'd in anything?

I have one Eater of Secrets and one Bloodlust. EoS for getting through Ice Block, and Bloodlust to burst down Quest Rogue when all I have is totems and 1/2s on the board. I also add one Spirit Echo. With all the low cost cards with useful battlecries, this can get insane value.

Decklist is this one.

- 1 Tol'vir Stoneshaper
- 1 Servant of Kalimos
- 1 Jade Claws

It's working well so far. Anyone else running similar?
 
C

cartographer

Member
Zemm said:
I think there's only been a few decks that have been tricky to play, patron warrior required the most thought probably. Current Warrior has gone the complete opposite way and pirate and quest are braindead easy. I used to love warrior but I can't even play it now because those two decks are so boring.
Click to expand...

I think old Handlock was harder to get right than Patron. Patron was just understanding the math for the combo, which could get complicated. Handlock really walked that tightrope a lot of time and you could really see the difference between solid pros and people who really knew Handlock and how it matched up.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Zakalwe said:
Those of you playing Elemental Shaman, have you tech'd in anything?

I have one Eater of Secrets and one Bloodlust. EoS for getting through Ice Block, and Bloodlust to burst down Quest Rogue when all I have is totems and 1/2s on the board. I also add one Spirit Echo. With all the low cost cards with useful battlecries, this can get insane value.

Decklist is this one.

- 1 Tol'vir Stoneshaper
- 1 Servant of Kalimos
- 1 Jade Claws

It's working well so far. Anyone else running similar?
Click to expand...
There's no way you don't use double Jade Claws in that deck. Jade Claws is one of the best cards in the game right now.

Bloodlust is fine, Eater of Secrets is super meh... you can win the Mage match up even without that card. I don't know much about Spirit Echo either, that deck generally has enough value as it is.
 
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