• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Hellblade 2 represents the single largest visual leap and most significant technical achievement in videogame history (56K/Mobile No)

And still it seems to be one of the biggest fllops. The Steam numbers were terrible from the start and now it’s basically dead. I still don’t understand why their next game has been greenlit and Tango Workshop was closed. Even today the Steam numbers of Evil Within 2 and HiFi Rush are better than Hellblade 2, although they are much older…
 
Comedy Central Lol GIF
 

fallingdove

Member
On PC, you may have an argument.


On console, it's the best looking game in existence but I don't know that I'd call it "the single largest visual leap and most significant technical achievement in videogame history". Resolution/IQ/framerate holds it back a bit on consoles.


People saying "it's a movie" or "it's just a tech demo" either haven't played it or are dumb as shit though. I've played many, MANY games with far less traditional gameplay than what's in Hellblade II.
Less traditional gameplay wasn’t the issue. Grueling forced walking/running, mindless puzzles and insultingly basic combat were.
 

M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
I agree, yet I think its a shit game, with lazy "gameplay" boring fights and it ends when you fill its finally starting to pick up the pace, combat etc. I mean these people done DMC, clearly they could have done more.
 

CamHostage

Member
...So, because it looks good to you, it's the most significant technical achievement in gaming history?

Technologically, Hellblade 2 is three things: a cumulative usage of high-end existing technology, a prolonged investment of time and resources from top craftsmen in digital modeling and photogrammetry application, and an intelligent selection of limiting factors to optimize the impact of visual techniques.

It's the industry working at the best of its capacities.​
It is not the industry changing the paradigm or breaking new ground.​

I'm really looking forward to a Boundary Break or something beyond the bounds of Hellblade 2 to show how it works and how it pulls off its tricks, because I think people don't understand what it is actually doing. If we're going to talk about this game besides, "it looks very very pretty", it would be good for us to have a better idea how they got away with this impressive visual onslaught, and how this one game's techniques are made for this one game.

Like, when you get close up on Senua as her mind spins out of control and her world goes dark, that's an intense scene of drama, but it's also a good ol' Loading Elevator swapping out the level and changing the lighting while the camera and gameplay is stopped. (Same when it looks up into the clouds; also when it pans over rocky landscapes, I have a guess that those are procedural placement of the same few Quixel megascans flipped around and dropped in rather than an actual stretch of geometry specifically modeled for scenes.) The face model is incredible, building upon techniques used in the previous Hellblade as well as other games (Death Stranding, RE Village, Crime Boss Rockay City, the whole of MetaHumans,) but it accomplishes a lot of its lifelike human qualities by being a recording of a human; similarly, the action is 100% mo-capped, allowing for incredibly nuanced and visceral combat with the limitations of being it is made to play or blend in/out of what was physically recorded. And the use here of Nanite and photogrammetry is at the extraordinary level of scrutiny-defying quality that we've been waiting for since the debut presentation of UE5 in 2020, but homebrewers have been doing "photorealistic" work for 3 years already and it's just taken the industry time to actually ship the games they implemented this tech in way back when they too started their UE5 projects. (Plus, again, the slow pace and the mostly-nighttime or sunrise/sunset setting allows a lot of repetition and delayed asset loading so that they can prioritize higher-resolution objects than faster-paced games can manage.)

There aren't a lot of glitch reports or off-map cases to look at yet, but this fire glitch in photo mode kind of shows an example. Snap out of the limited viewpoint of the game in that scene where Senua is way far away from the giant as he burns, and you can see that the fire is actually a 2D element; not even a 3D VDB, which would be a technical achievement (well, kind of... it's still a playback rather than a fire sim, and I'm not sure experienced UE technicians would be all that impressed with laying in a sparse volume texture even if it's only now coming into realtime use.) It's a great fire effect for what this game needs; it'd perhaps not be a great fire effect for other games where players have full control over the playfield. They used the right trick for the right effect, and the limitations of the game design kept them from having to throw out the book in hopes of finding new ways to advance the technology.

 
Last edited:

BlackTron

Member
SM64 came out in the second year of the PSX/Saturn generation. We had 3D games for two years by the time it was out. It was revolutionary for its gameplay, how it used analog controls, and the 3D camera that every platformer after it copied.

Can I ask you what the actual first 3D game ever made was so we can mark the beginning of the gen with the correct title in the future?
 

IAmRei

Member
graphic are pretty? yes
chick is ugly? yes
biggest leap in history? no

(we still had snes to ps1, ps1 to ps2, and ps2 to ps3)
 

DaciaJC

Gold Member
The following images are all RAW unedited screencaps featuring me flying the camera around at 50-100fps. NONE are CG videos or Live Action Stills, everything is 100% real time.

The only modifications performed in some case are in-game focus readjusted from moving camera, and in-game exposure boosted to correct the HDR > SDR conversion crushing shadow detail. I did NOT adjust lighting, color, effects, etc..., everything is vanilla gameplay/cutscenes @ default photomode.

Captured on PC High at a mix of 4K DLSS Quality and 4K DLAA. Mods Chromatic Abberation and Letterbox Removed in config.ini, Film Grain and Lens Curvature DOF effect left intact.

Screenshot-2900.png

11-Screenshot-2591.png

Screenshot-2731.png

1-Screenshot-2536.png

2-Screenshot-2545.png

3-Screenshot-2546.png

4-Screenshot-2549.png

5-Screenshot-2735.png

Screenshot-2369.png

Screenshot-2371.png

Screenshot-2377.png

Screenshot-2384.png

Screenshot-2396.png

Screenshot-2405.png

Screenshot-2410.png

Screenshot-2462.png

Screenshot-2472.png

Screenshot-2497.png

Screenshot-2521.png

Screenshot-2526.png

Screenshot-2558.png

Screenshot-2561.png

Screenshot-2572.png

Screenshot-2584.png

Screenshot-2592.png

Screenshot-2593.png

Screenshot-2595.png

Screenshot-2625.png

Screenshot-2628.png

Screenshot-2641.png

Screenshot-2643.png

Screenshot-2647.png

Screenshot-2653.png

Screenshot-2662.png

Screenshot-2678.png

Screenshot-2703.png

Screenshot-2712.png

Screenshot-2713.png

Screenshot-2717.png

Screenshot-2736.png

Screenshot-2745.png

Screenshot-2747.png

Screenshot-2750.png

Screenshot-2756.png


Nice screenshots
 

Perrott

Member
Metal Gear Solid 2 and Gran Turismo 3 are the largest leaps in visuals, performance and technology in the history of gaming.

Higher resolution, higher framerate and higher visual fidelity games than what was possible in the previous generation, which made for an increase in the overall quality of the gaming experience that we haven't seen again since.

Oh, and those were actual videogames, not some pretentious on-rails art game that feels like a disgrace to Ninja Theory's rich heritage in the action genre.
 
Last edited:

Angry_Megalodon

Gold Member
Good thing OP put ‘visual leap’ and ‘technical achievement’ in the title, so we won’t have a flood of folks wailing about the gameplay (or lack thereof)

Oh, wait.


Even if he's referring only to visuals the argument is dumb.

Every generational leap has been bigger than the alleged leap of this game over others this gen. Let alone the map in Hellblade is a non-interactive linear scenery so it's pretty much an interactive movie ala Detroit Become Human.
 

Fredrik

Member
I don't get the hype for these games but hey, have fun!
Usually not my cup of tea either, I love movies but story focused games never reach the needed quality to please the movie fan inside me. So I usually want highly gameplay focused games and the story can be whatever I don’t care.

But here I finally think the gaming and movie mediums merged. I essentially played it to watch, interact, immerse myself in a movie. Loved it. The puzzles were boring but I absolutely loved the fights and general story telling.
Just wish there was more of it. Took me 11 hours to go through it. Long movie but short game.
 
You mentioned "Visual and technical achievement".

Fanboys : but Sales & I found it boring. So my console am Win!

If fanboys want to talk about those things, go ahead and create a separate thread to discuss that and defend your console's honour. Stop trying to derail this thread.

The graphics are absolutely stunning. Haven't had time to play it fully but watched my friend complete it. I did Complete Hellblade 1. Currently completing Rdr2.

Helllbalde 2 Felt like it was real life at times. I don't have a PS5 yet so can't compare there but for the XSX, it's another level of realism.
 

poppabk

Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
It looks fantastic - but it is a large step at most from other current games. There have been much more significant jumps in the past.
 

ShaiKhulud1989

Gold Member
With all due respect, but we've jumped the shark with tech and visual fidelity during the PS4 Pro/GTX 1080 PC era. Titles like Death Stranding, TLOU2 or, hell, even MSFS 2020 are photorealistic enough for most of the sane people out there. It's very hard to justify even more details especially when we're trading them for dev time.

Hell, the ever-mentioned The Order 1886 aged better than I thought (bar the somewhat basic facial animations and resolution issues). In 2024, visuals in games are not about the tech or even the ability to deliver something like HB2, when indie devs can create something like Bramble in a Nordic shed with a stock UE5. It's about pure scope, complexity of the visual language. Moreover it's a constand struggle with balancing the hardware budget between the gameplay mechanics, myriad of assets, procedural stuff and said fidelity. Plus there's some very lowly things like man hours, release window and production budgets.

Recently (on PC and PS5 at least), I was way more impressed by Alan Wake 2, Phantom Liberty (and 2077 with PT in general) and Horizon Forbidden West than with my 5 hours with HB2 with everything cranked-up to Ultra. Because unlike HB2 those games were full of life, tried to deliver some amazing new tech to bigger scope, were filled with interactivity and were bult around thoroughly unscripted gameplay situations. They are packed with myriads of characters, combat and non-combat scenarios, different means of traversal and some clever prosedural systems. The number of things that are running under the hood of games like CP 2077 or HFW is insane, considering they are both technically cross-gen titles, but still maintaining more or less consistent WOW visuals across the vast open-world and 50+ hours of mostly open-ended gameplay. In the meantime HB2 has like 1 attack and 1 block for the whole game. While animations are very lifelike, there's just so much you can do without breaking the immersion with tiny pre-recorded moveset.

In respect of scope, HB2 fails to impress massively. It's a restricted and fairly pre-recorder tech demo where you have a very narrow path without any real interactions or player's agenda for that matter. Very rarely you'll see more than 3 human beings in a shot at once. Everything is transpiring on deliberately sparse locations even if we forget about the idiotic corridor nature of the game. The fights are basically all the same because they are heavily pre-scripted, you have like one combat scenario for every fight in the entire game. The moveset is tiny, but I've mentioned that. Comparing with HB1 (not a big game by any stretch of imagination) even the puzzling is basically became a 'find-the-trigger' minigame, while the combat system (as a gameplay system) was scaled back to be more predictable for devs, so they can create the illusion of fluidity in all 10 animations they've pre-recorded in such details.

One can argue that any competent AAA dev could accomplish this level of fidelity with such a tiny scope, miniscule number of interactive systems and with 7 years of development and almost unlimited budget. That's why tech demos are not working for general public anymore, we know that the tech is there for years, it's not news. Scope, gameplay and interactivity is what really matters in the end, that's why the world is no fire by a DLC for a game that is made with an aging tech, that itself is based on an archaic PhyreEngine. The best possible fidelity is just a thing that is naturally expected form a platform-holders AAA title at this point, especially from a rich company like Microsoft.

The HB2 is a very expensive tech experiment that in grand scheme of things proves nothing to nobody and moves nothing industry-wide. Said industrtry is is already overspending on fidelity and in a bit of a crisis because of it.

Games like CP2077, RDR 2, GTA VI and Death Stranding 2 are what tech achievment mean. Because they strive to combine cutting-edge tech with never-before-seen scope or complexity of their systems. Perhaps they won't reach the same level of skin PBR or useless overanimation on MC face, but at this point of time it's not the thig that people really care abnout. Games like RDR2 are tech marvels to be looked upon for years to come because of sheer technological scope and gameplay complexity at the same time. Hellblade 2, on the other hand, will end up in the 'peculiar failures' bin, along with hollow, unimaginative and very restricted games like The Order 1886 and Beyond Two Souls.

Thanks for listening to my TED Talk, I guess.
 
Last edited:
The HB2 is a very expensive tech experiment that in grand scheme of things proves nothing to nobody and moves nothing industry-wide. Said industrtry is is already overspending on fidelity and in a bit of a crisis because of it.

Games like CP2077, RDR 2, GTA VI and Death Stranding 2 are what tech achievment mean. Because they strive to combine cutting-edge tech with never-before-seen scope or complexity of their systems. Perhaps they won't reach the same level of skin PBR or useless overanimation on MC face, but at this point of time it's not the thig that people really care abnout. Games like RDR2 are tech marvels to be looked upon for years to come because of sheer technological scope and gameplay complexity at the same time. Hellblade 2, on the other hand, will end up in the 'peculiar failures' bin, along with hollow, unimaginative and very restricted games like The Order 1886 and Beyond Two Souls...
extremely well said. when a particular dial gets turned up to 11, but all the other dials are set somewhere around the middle? it's like featuring an exceptional dancer in an otherwise average chorus line. what's actually being accomplished?...
 

diffusionx

Gold Member
This game does a little bit more than other graphically advanced games, at a massive cost, and runs on Unreal Engine 5. Sorry OP your thread title is hilarious to the point of clickbait. Look at what Crysis did to PCs when it came out and how long it took for other companies to catch up (like, over 5 years), and yea just take the L.
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
Its good stuff, but hardly "a leap" given UE5's capabilities.

What it is, is what happens when a team narrows down the focus of what they are trying to achieve visually, and pours all their resources into doing a limited number of scene elements at maximum fidelity.

Real-time cinematics being usually higher fidelity than "gameplay" graphics is not because they are more technically advanced; its because in controlled conditions more resources can be allocated to doing things to improve the visual presentation.
 

Zarak

Member
Put down the crack pipe. Game looks good but not much of a leap or the best. Not to mention game itself is fried dogshit.
 

OmegaSupreme

advanced basic bitch
At stock settings with all of the horrible post processing it looks like shit. I had to mod it to be able stand and look at the thing.

It looks good otherwise but it's also barren and lifeless. Something like Alan Wake 2 looks miles better.
 
The graphics are indeed amazing but god damn, something must have gone VERY wrong with the games development as they not only didn't improve the combat, they actually made it even more shallow than the first game! This is a cardinal sin for a sequel with a larger budget and more dev time than the first game. The combat was the biggest complaint with the first game too. Just so fucking strange they failed to realize the importance of needing to add to the combat.

Also, the game being just as short as the first despite being a sequel is another failure. It's a shame because the game does a lot of cool things it's just a bad sequel from a design standpoint.
 

yurinka

Member
These are empty scenes with only one or two persons, so they can put all the polygons, textures, etc. there. Blurring or hiding the background with fog they can also drop its detail, to use it on the characters.

Same goes with having limited gameplay and narrow corridos making it more linear, eases the streaming and clean faster from memory stuff that won't be needed, so can focus more on what is shown.

But yes, looks great.
 

Fafalada

Fafracer forever
In many ways both remarkably good looking compared to what went before and yet somehow neither impressed me much at all. I'm just not interested in graphics if the game isn't a fucking GAME first of all. The same with Flight Sim: it's not a GAME. I'm interested in game graphics, not glorified tech demos or niche simulators.
Given the hardware The Order was achieved on - it's arguably more impressive - but - The Order distinctly felt like a stage-play to me. It looks great, but the scenes never felt grounded to me in a real place - but rather more like actors on a literal theater stage.
Hellblade *visually* avoids that (for the most part - there are parts of the game that fall prey to this too) - so world - feels world-like at least (not stage-like). But like The Order - it feels very constrained it its scale. Even in the sweeping outdoor shots, the scale never feels large, not even momentarily.

I don't think Flight Simulator is really comparable to either here - it's obviously simulating a real world at scale - and doesn't have above problems as result.
But tbh I never thought it looked good outside of things Flight Sims always looked good in (as far away as possible from any ground elements). It even kind of falls apart in showcase areas (like - why is there a scripted-scenario with NewYork at all when it looks as bad as it does in this game - even Google Earth representation holds up better for intended purporse).
 
Top Bottom