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[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

I think MS is making a mistake developing ANY specific versions of next-gen games for XBO; they already have Xcloud. If people on the X and XBO want to play the next-gen games but not pay for an XSX immediately, they can just...stream the game. They probably won't have the DLC or post-release content (and the quality will vary a lot depending on their internet plan and connection), but that's kind of what you have to give up if you want to play next-gen games on previous-gen hardware.

Plus, with that way they save money on developing specific XBO/PC etc. versions, that money can go towards more next-gen games and services. Gives more incentive to upgrade to the next-gen system, too. They can stagger the Xcloud deployment so that Xbox devices can stream it first, then PC, then mobile after that. Keep the streaming version to the base release; if people want the DLC they either buy the DLC and maybe use it in the streaming version (no idea how that'd work), or just buy the game on XSX.

Develop a non-streaming PC version later on if feasible, maybe collecting the DLC and post-game release content too in a GOTY style edition. All I'm saying is, if they want to do this cross-gen stuff right, IMO this is the best way to do it. Keeps XBO/X players in the loop technically, saves money on outsourcing dev resources for versions of the game on older system that could undermine next-gen versions (and next-gen system sales), staggers Xcloud streaming support on tiers that make sense, leaves the DLC and post-game bonus content for next-gen gamers (and PC gamers down the line) so that they're rewarded for investing in next-gen hardware, and more.

That said I think they'd have to make this a Gamepass + Xcloud kind of thing; XBO owners shouldn't have to buy the XSX physical or digital version of the game only to stream it, that would be unfair. But maybe by them accessing it on Xcloud through Gamepass, they can get a redeem code for a discount towards a digital purchase of the game on XSX (or PC if a PC version is eventually made).

 

[nani17]

Every new generation has cross gen games. Why are people acting like this is new?

People expect that one title that's only on the new system that shows at least the full potential of the system. The feel if all the titles are cross-gen they won't

 

[ethomaz]

....

FH2 was developed "cross gen"... FH3 and 4 were specifically developed for the next gen console.... and look similar. They use many of the same assets across the games.. but improved the lighting and textures and effects, as well as the general presentation. Visually and gameplay-wise they are all in the same league... and would be regardless of the 360 version of FH2 existing or not.

So remind me again how FH2 being on Xbox 360 held back FH2 on Xbox One, when FH3 and FH4 (XO exclusives) aren't generational leaps over it? Those were games SPECIFICALLY built for the Xbox One.

Why are you talking about X1X? First of all.. the whole point of X1X was to scale XO games up to 4K resolution for use on 4K TVs. The entire design philosophy of that console was to do exactly that. Which is why it doesn't have a different CPU. FH4 itself WAS taking advantage of the X1X in exactly the way MS intended. FH4 WAS built with the X1X in mind... which is why you got a 60fps 1080p mode, and a 4K 30 mode.

FH4 built ONLY for X1X.... would look largely the same as it does now.

Xbox Series X could easily have games built to take advantage of the graphical capabilities, while those same games are scaled down to Xbox One family of consoles with increased loading times, more frequent loading, less detailed models, paired back graphical effects and so on. With the Series X.. there's incentive on the part of MS to push the hardware and differentiate it from the previous gen versions.. (because the real capability to do so is there) whereas with the Xbox One X... there was only the incentive to boost resolution and potentially framerate.

Graphics: FH4 > FH3 >>> FH2

When you compare FH4 with FH2 on Xbox One looks like a generation jump.... FH4 and FH3 looks more similar than FH3 and FH2... even when FH2 was developed separated from two different developers to take advantage of the new hardware.

So your example helps my point... MS had to develop two separately games to mitigate the limitation of the weak hardware and they result have still limitation from old hardware.

Imagine if FH5 was developed exclusive to Xbox One X... better exclusive to Xbox One Series X.

 

[Panajev2001a]

That's how it's always been in the past. How many ps3 versions of games worked on a PS4? Ffs

How many things are you dancing with int his post? Congrats for picking the only console generation transition without l strong BC support in 25 or so years btw .

Still, you seem to make a point about BC and that was not related to what I was saying...

 

[ethomaz]

FH2 had 2 versions made by 2 different studios. Xbox SeX 1st party games will be bad-looking, shitty xbone games with bells and whistles, so Papa Phil is going to make sucky sucky again.

Even doing that you could see it was hold back by 360 hardware to make both games be most similar possible.

 

[Freedom Gate Co.]

Usually there are wacky threads before new consoles launch but most of these are basically pointless with zero relevant content. We know cross-gen games are going to look better on the new consoles this is not a revelation.

 

[Ellery]

That is not really how it works. I mean in a way yes that is part of how it works. The underlying problems aren't really adressed though.

The consoles that are being held back by older consoles are acting more like mods and enhancements instead of new games from the ground up. (for a lack of better phrasing on my end my apologies).

People are completely disregarding the substantial boost the new Xbox Series X console is going to have over the Xbox One BESIDES THE RAW PERFORMANCE FROM THE GPU. People seem to think a console is solely defined by the random TFLOP number they have heard somewhere...

It is not like icreasing sliders a bit and having true 4K resolution, bigger draw/render distance and prettier textures.


I can only come up with half assed analogies so here we go :

Imagine you want to build a house and have bought enough building land and the newest tools to do so. Lets call that house Dreamhouse Series X, but your neighbor doesn't have enough building land for the Series X Dreamhouse.
So instead of building your Dreamhouse Series X the people responsible for building your Dreamhouse, tell you that you can have the Garden Shed Series X and that they are also building the Garden Shed One for your Neighbor.
Because you have the newest tools your Garden Shed Series X is going to look better (visual improvements) than your Neighbors Garden Shed One.
But at the end of the day both of you have a Garden Shed Infinite instead of Dreamhouse Infinite.

 

[93xfan]

Yea, that's am eye opener. Do you know if they handed out this year's Nobel Prizes?

If you'd bother to read, you'd see that I'm speaking of actual gameplay differences. Physics, weather, courses, etc. Gameplay.

But you're pre-occupied with showing how witty you can be, so I'll let it slide.

 

[Vawn]

Because Sony said that their games will all be exclusive to PS5, that's why crossgen games are now a BAD than

Sony never said that. If a game makes sense to be on both, that's what it'll be. If a game is made to ge a full next-gen experience, then it'll only be on PS5.

Cross-gen games end up looking like Dead Rising 3.

While next-gen games end up looking like inFamous Second Son.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

Graphics: FH4 > FH3 >>> FH2

When you compare FH4 with FH2 on Xbox One looks like a generation jump.... FH4 and FH3 looks more similar than FH3 and FH2... even when FH2 was developed separated from two different developers to take advantage of the new hardware.

So your example helps my point... MS had to develop two separately games to mitigate the limitation of the weak hardware and they result have still limitation from old hardware.

Imagine if FH5 was developed exclusive to Xbox One X... better exclusive to Xbox One Series X.

Actually your point completely erodes because the reason that Forza Horizon gradually got better looking on the same hardware is the same reason Uncharted looks worse than Uncharted 2, and Uncharted 2 looks worse than Uncharted 3.

Developers get more familiar with the hardware over time, they find new ways to push limitations, they update and advance their game engines.

 

[Self_Destructive]

Graphics: FH4 > FH3 >>> FH2

When you compare FH4 with FH2 on Xbox One looks like a generation jump.... FH4 and FH3 looks more similar than FH3 and FH2... even when FH2 was developed separated from two different developers to take advantage of the new hardware.

So your example helps my point... MS had to develop two separately games to mitigate the limitation of the weak hardware and they result have still limitation from old hardware.

Imagine if FH5 was developed exclusive to Xbox One X... better exclusive to Xbox One Series X.

... lol serious.........

No shit they look better... because devs become more accustomed to the hardware.. and dev kits improve.. ect ect. There's absolutely NOTHING about FH3 or 4's game design that couldn't have been done like FH2 was on the 360...

At some point devs have to stop developing for the old platform of course... but there's nothing inherently holding devs back... when they set out to create two different products in the first place. The FH series is a perfect example of this.

 

[quest]

... lol serious.........

No shit they look better... because devs become more accustomed to the hardware.. and dev kits improve.. ect ect. There's absolutely NOTHING about FH3 or 4's game design that couldn't have been done like FH2 was on the 360...

At some point devs have to stop developing for the old platform of course... but there's nothing inherently holding devs back... when they set out to create two different products in the first place. The FH series is a perfect example of this.

The biggest jumps always come from launch to after launch games your right about that. Launch games are developed on incomplete kits and api's ect and rushed to get out. Even though different types of games killzone to horizon was a massive upgrade for GG.

 

[ethomaz]

... lol serious.........

No shit they look better... because devs become more accustomed to the hardware.. and dev kits improve.. ect ect. There's absolutely NOTHING about FH3 or 4's game design that couldn't have been done like FH2 was on the 360...

At some point devs have to stop developing for the old platform of course... but there's nothing inherently holding devs back... when they set out to create two different products in the first place. The FH series is a perfect example of this.

Yeap serious.

You usea game that was developed to Xbox One by the main developer and it still get hold back by the old generation and says it is a perfect example lol

Fun fact even being exclusively developed to Xbox One due having another second developer working on 360 it got held back by old generation because they should be similar games.

Imagine if MS didn't make two games instead choose to make one scaling to the target power lol

Your perfect example shows exactly what I said... old hardware hold new hardware development.

That is why PC minimum requirement needs to increase each year.... because if developers were to develop to minimum Riva TNT today even GTX 2080 should have crap graphics.

Bigger the minimum requirements of a game on PC = better graphics on high-end hardware.

Now imagine if some dev choose to only focus on Ryzen top CPU and RTX 2080... the game could looks insane and way better than everything we have on the market today.

 

[Self_Destructive]

Imagine if MS didn't make two games instead choose to make one scaling to the target power lol

Then you'd get the same thing that we got............


Again... FH3 and FH4 prove that. They are not generational leaps over FH2 in any respect...

 

[Varteras]

How many threads of this are we going to create? Do we think that if we make enough of them peoples' positions will change? That never happens. No one is being converted. Move on.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Series X is BC with Xbox One.

PS5 is BC with PS4.

Seriex X and PS5 versions to look better than last gen versions.

Who knew?

 

[DiscoJer]

If you use FH4, you should compare it between the Xbox S and the Xbox X. The S version is ugly and runs at 30 fps, while the X version has better textures, no popup and runs at 60 fps (or 4k and 30 fps) while on PC it's 4k and 60 fps (if you have a good computer).

Next generation, it will be like that, only presumably the Xbox SX will look like a good computer, and the PC version will look even better.

 

[JustP_Gaming]

Every new generation has cross gen games. Why are people acting like this is new?

A certain subset of people are trying to slow down the momentum of the barrage of Xbox Series X announcements by making a mountain out of a mole hill. Nov 2020 will be a blast!

 

[bitbydeath]

thats why only for the first year games will be crossgen, after that there will be exclusive games, makes sense then. but not at launch, this is ridiculous.

its just a cheap and greedy cash crab by sony, and yet, people HAIL sony for it here. WHAT THE FUCK??? seriously?

if it would be the other way around, people would kill MS lol

Sony are doing it for buy-in, MS aren't as console oriented these days and have already stated they aren't going to try compete. Their focus is services.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

Sony are doing it for buy-in, MS aren't as console oriented these days and have already stated they aren't going to try compete. Their focus is services.

This is totally false.

 

[bitbydeath]

This is totally false.

Which part do you disagree with?

 

[Panajev2001a]

A certain subset of people are trying to slow down the momentum of the barrage of Xbox Series X announcements by making a mountain out of a mole hill. Nov 2020 will be a blast!

Oh yes, I remember... well... uhm... I actually do not remember any console launch where the manufacturer of said console announced there would be no exclusive game from them in the launch window. That was bound to cause some gnashing of teeth and furious articulations of why this was actually:

1. Great news as exclusive games are not inclusive and pro consumer
2. Limited to one or two years
3. ... and then back to the awesome exclusives baby

 

[DynamiteCop!]

Which part do you disagree with?

It's not that I disagree, the underlined is just simply false.

Expanding your focus doesn't entail that you're less oriented on consoles, you're simply introducing broader aspirations. This isn't a person that's limited to a specific task to which multitasking would then steal away resources, it's a company, a huge company that has the ability to expand with the aspirations so focus isn't lost.

Not trying to compete huh?


"We're not building Scarlett to not be the best console, I want to be number one, I'm as competitive as anybody. That doesn't mean I need somebody else to suffer from a business standpoint."

"I want to build a great Project Scarlett, I want people to feel like they can have amazing console experiences they've never seen before. That they've got the best content lineup and services of any platform out there, and we're totally focused on that."

"Being a leader in console is something that the team is committed to doing, we're not building this program to try to aim for second place, we're building it aiming for first place and that's what I want to hit."

-Phil Spencer E3 2019

 

[DavidGzz]

Does anyone remember 2013-2014 PS4 games? That first year will fly by and no one will remember or give a shit. Launch year will matter not by the time we get well into next gen. MS not supporting the current One and X after the console owners have Game Pass paid off until 2022 wouldn't be too smart. They got shit when they killed the original Xbox, and not they are getting shit for supporting the 40+ million Xbox users out there today.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

Does anyone remember 2013-2014 PS4 games? That first year will fly by and no one will remember or give a shit. Launch year will matter not by the time we get well into next gen. MS not supporting the current One and X after the console owners have Game Pass paid off until 2022 wouldn't be too smart. They got shit when they killed the original Xbox, and not they are getting shit for supporting the 40+ million Xbox users out there today.

Nobody actually gives a shit one way or the other, it's fanboy fodder. Early gen games get dusted under the rug with the quickness, are generally forgettable and don't really push the boundaries beyond graphics anyway.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Does anyone remember 2013-2014 PS4 games? That first year will fly by and no one will remember or give a shit. Launch year will matter not by the time we get well into next gen. MS not supporting the current One and X after the console owners have Game Pass paid off until 2022 wouldn't be too smart. They got shit when they killed the original Xbox, and not they are getting shit for supporting the 40+ million Xbox users out there today.

Launch year with some exclusive games that push the new machine properly (which is one of the great things about console generations, please stop trying to make them exactly like PC's an their ecosystem, they are not) does matter.

It also important not to screw your customers over with huge droughts in your current console lineup as soon as the next generation comes about and hopefully all console players start managing these transitions better. A year without many big first party releases and then launch titles backported to the old system is not the approach I am talking about: PS3 to PS4 transition is one example about how a console transition should be executed and the PS4 to PS5 one is shaping up to be aligned to it by looking at the titles coming out for PS4 this year.

 

[bitbydeath]

It's not that I disagree, the underlined is just simply false.

Expanding your focus doesn't entail that you're less oriented on consoles, you're simply introducing broader aspirations. This isn't a person that's limited to a specific task to which multitasking would then steal away resources, it's a company, a huge company that has the ability to expand with the aspirations so focus isn't lost.

Not trying to compete huh?


"We're not building Scarlett to not be the best console, I want to be number one, I'm as competitive as anybody. That doesn't mean I need somebody else to suffer from a business standpoint."

"I want to build a great Project Scarlett, I want people to feel like they can have amazing console experiences they've never seen before. That they've got the best content lineup and services of any platform out there, and we're totally focused on that."

"Being a leader in console is something that the team is committed to doing, we're not building this program to try to aim for second place, we're building it aiming for first place and that's what I want to hit."

-Phil Spencer E3 2019

Here's some quotes that prove otherwise, they're simply moving in a different direction.

"The business is selling software and services," he said. "The business is not how many consoles you sell

Phil Spencer: Xbox Focus Is on Software and Services, Not Console Sales - IGN

The future, as Spencer sees it, is everywhere, not just in a plastic box.

au.ign.com

First of all, Sony's done a fantastic job just across the board in terms of what they've done with building an audience, selling consoles, obviously, a number of amazing, great games that have come out of their first party teams. I try to stay away from framing things as a head-to-head bout with Sony

Microsoft's Matt Booty Isn't Interested in a 'Head-to-Head Bout' With Sony, Praises PlayStation - PlayStation LifeStyle

Microsoft's Matt Booty doesn't seem interested in PS5 vs Xbox Series X debates and he has nothing but praises to sing for Sony.

www.playstationlifestyle.net

 

[Panajev2001a]

Nobody actually gives a shit one way or the other, it's fanboy fodder. Early gen games get dusted under the rug with the quickness, are generally forgettable and don't really push the boundaries beyond graphics anyway.

Halo: CE, Toshinden, Ridge Racer (I and V), Wipeout, Tekken (I and TT), Kameo, Condemned, PGR, SM64, Resogun, TimeSplitters, SSX, Resistance: FoM, ... and well... this speaks for itself (during first year or so from its U.S. launch):

You can look and see quite a few memorable early games for tons of consoles and you can surely find more I would think.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

Here's some quotes that prove otherwise, they're simply moving in a different direction.

Phil Spencer: Xbox Focus Is on Software and Services, Not Console Sales - IGN

The future, as Spencer sees it, is everywhere, not just in a plastic box.

au.ign.com

Microsoft's Matt Booty Isn't Interested in a 'Head-to-Head Bout' With Sony, Praises PlayStation - PlayStation LifeStyle

Microsoft's Matt Booty doesn't seem interested in PS5 vs Xbox Series X debates and he has nothing but praises to sing for Sony.

www.playstationlifestyle.net

This is just poorly framed, his statements are infinitely clear. He's reciting realities of the industry, console sales are an access point but they are not the business, software is. Money is not made on hardware, in reality they are a loss leading item for a number of years when R&D is factored in and X amount of units and X amount of software need to be sold to overcome this.

Phil even said in his interview that he's be happy if they both sold more because together it produces growth for the industry, but that doesn't mean he doesn't want to sell more or be number one, that is the fundamental goal and he is quite transparent with that. Having said that it doesn't mean one needs to fail for the other to succeed, it doesn't mean they won't compete, in some aspects they will, in some they won't.

The metric of sales as a measurement of competition is becoming less important, what is becoming more important is engagement, total spend, the amount of games a user buys. That doesn't mean they don't want people to buy a console, it simply means the financially important aspect is how much software people buy or services they use via that access point.

Halo: CE, Toshinden, Ridge Racer (I and V), Wipeout, Tekken (I and TT), Kameo, Condemned, PGR, SM64, Resogun, TimeSplitters, SSX, Resistance: FoM, ... and well... this speaks for itself (during first year or so from its U.S. launch):

You can look and see quite a few memorable early games for tons of consoles and you can surely find more I would think.

Do you not find it poetic that you had to go back nearly 20 years and three generations for this? Also that's 2001, that's a year later and by then this whole non-exclusivity thing could be over. To add to this exclusivity has never been more elusive in general than it is now, more and more developers and publishers have walked away from it, it's a minute fraction of releases now.

Silent Hill is on Xbox
GTA is on Xbox
Metal Gear Solid is on Xbox
Final Fantasy is on Xbox
Ace Combat is on Xbox
Devil May Cry is on Xbox
Baulder's Gate is on Xbox

You're fighting a rising tide.

 

[Panajev2001a]

This is just poorly framed, his statements are infinitely clear. He's reciting realities of the industry, console sales are an access point but they are not the business, software is. Money is not made on hardware, in reality they are a loss leading item for a number of years when R&D is factored in and X amount of units and X amount of software need to be sold to overcome this.

Phil even said in his interview that he's be happy if they both sold more because together it produces growth for the industry, but that doesn't mean he doesn't want to sell more or be number one, that is the fundamental goal and he is quite transparent with that. Having said that it doesn't mean one needs to fail for the other to succeed, it doesn't mean they won't compete, in some aspects they will, in some they won't.

The metric of sales as a measurement of competition is becoming less important, what is becoming more important is engagement, total spend, the amount of games a user buys. That doesn't mean they don't want people to buy a console, it simply means the financially important aspect is how much software people buy or services they use via that access point.

This is their model which they adapted to by necessity and as you see with the recent CES speech when you also selL a lot of consoles metrics such as the ones mentioned above do get better too (hence MS is also quiet about metrics such as MAU's too lately).
I do not hate MS, but when their business targets/priorities and mine do not align, I will not make excuses for them and cheer for them to twist console gaming into something they like vs the reality I as a consumer prefer to have (regardless of who pushes it... as long as their interests align with mine, same reason why I am in the iOS ecosystem: my interests and priorities align with the business priorities/USP's Apple builds its profitable niche on).

 

[DynamiteCop!]

This is their model which they adapted to by necessity and as you see with the recent CES speech when you also selL a lot of consoles metrics such as the ones mentioned above do get better too (hence MS is also quiet about metrics such as MAU's too lately).
I do not hate MS, but when their business targets/priorities and mine do not align, I will not make excuses for them and cheer for them to twist console gaming into something they like vs the reality I as a consumer prefer to have (regardless of who pushes it... as long as their interests align with mine, same reason why I am in the iOS ecosystem: my interests and priorities align with the business priorities/USP's Apple builds its profitable niche on).

If I'm being frank I doubt you'd cheer for them under any circumstances.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Do you not find it poetic that you had to go back nearly 20 years and three generations for this? Also that's 2001, that's a year later and by then this whole non-exclusivity thing could be over.

[...]

You're fighting a rising tide.

Oh, you are so cute . I went back across generations to give a more comprehensive answer to your throwaway trollish comment about "early gen games always being forgettable" and instead of admitting your earlier comment was off the mark you moved the goalpost and went on the offensive .

 

[DynamiteCop!]

Oh you are so cute . I went back across generations to give a more comprehensive answer to your throwaway trollish comment about "early gen games always being forgettable" and instead of admitting your earlier comment was off the mark you moved the goalpost and went on the offensive .

You can't even quote me correctly, did I said "early gen games always being forgettable" or did I say this....

"Early gen games get dusted under the rug with the quickness, are generally forgettable and don't really push the boundaries beyond graphics anyway."

And that's been the reality for the last two generations, the last real periods of relevance, you're literally running to what are now considered retro consoles from damn near 20 years ago to find an example.

 

[Panajev2001a]

You can't even quote me correctly, did I said "early gen games always being forgettable" or did I say this....

"Early gen games get dusted under the rug with the quickness, are generally forgettable and don't really push the boundaries beyond graphics anyway."

And that's been the reality for the last two generations, the last real periods of relevance, you're literally running to what are now considered retro consoles to find an example.

Even the world "generally" does not fly in this case. You know it, you know it does not fit the narrative you want to establish, you dismiss/dodge it, and you keep moving the goalpost.

 

[Panajev2001a]

If I'm being frank I doubt you'd cheer for them under any circumstances.

Good thing you are not called Frank .
See, difference is that I can call out stupid, idiotic, and short sighted choices like lack of UHD Blu-Ray in PS4 Pro (much much earlier than getting a 4K TV) while I would guess you in my position would have found a way to look at the bright side of it .

 

[DynamiteCop!]

Even the world "generally" does not fly in this case. You know it, you know it does not fit the narrative you want to establish, you dismiss/dodge it, and you keep moving the goalpost.

These are the 8th generation launch exclusive games of note.

• Killzone
• Knack
• Forza Motorsport 5
• Dead Rising 3
• Ryse Son of Rome

These are the 7th generation launch exclusive games of note.

• Amped 3
• Cameo
• Perfect Dark Zero
• Project Gotham Racing 3
• Resistance: Fall of Man
• Genji: Days of the Blade

Right.....

 

[bitbydeath]

This is just poorly framed, his statements are infinitely clear. He's reciting realities of the industry, console sales are an access point but they are not the business, software is. Money is not made on hardware, in reality they are a loss leading item for a number of years when R&D is factored in and X amount of units and X amount of software need to be sold to overcome this.

Phil even said in his interview that he's be happy if they both sold more because together it produces growth for the industry, but that doesn't mean he doesn't want to sell more or be number one, that is the fundamental goal and he is quite transparent with that. Having said that it doesn't mean one needs to fail for the other to succeed, it doesn't mean they won't compete, in some aspects they will, in some they won't.

The metric of sales as a measurement of competition is becoming less important, what is becoming more important is engagement, total spend, the amount of games a user buys. That doesn't mean they don't want people to buy a console, it simply means the financially important aspect is how much software people buy or services they use via that access point.

The quote doesn't even see hardware as an access point, they're moving to software and services ala Gamepass.

You only have to look as far as their financials, Sony still measure and report on hardware where as MS do not. That alone should tell you how different they have become.

 

[Fenris Wolf]

This tweeter thread is interesting


TL;DR is Jez corden from windows central says 8th gen won't hold next gen's hardware because "XsX's devkits have all the tools to scale games completely across the ecosystem"

 

[ZywyPL]

That is not really how it works. I mean in a way yes that is part of how it works. The underlying problems aren't really adressed though.

The consoles that are being held back by older consoles are acting more like mods and enhancements instead of new games from the ground up. (for a lack of better phrasing on my end my apologies).

People are completely disregarding the substantial boost the new Xbox Series X console is going to have over the Xbox One BESIDES THE RAW PERFORMANCE FROM THE GPU. People seem to think a console is solely defined by the random TFLOP number they have heard somewhere...

It is not like icreasing sliders a bit and having true 4K resolution, bigger draw/render distance and prettier textures.


I can only come up with half assed analogies so here we go :

Imagine you want to build a house and have bought enough building land and the newest tools to do so. Lets call that house Dreamhouse Series X, but your neighbor doesn't have enough building land for the Series X Dreamhouse.
So instead of building your Dreamhouse Series X the people responsible for building your Dreamhouse, tell you that you can have the Garden Shed Series X and that they are also building the Garden Shed One for your Neighbor.
Because you have the newest tools your Garden Shed Series X is going to look better (visual improvements) than your Neighbors Garden Shed One.
But at the end of the day both of you have a Garden Shed Infinite instead of Dreamhouse Infinite.

While everything you say is indeed true, bare in mind the development time of modern games - the games that are gonna be launch titles started being developed somewhere in 2017, if not earlier, long before the devs received the devkits, and I mean even the very first prototypes with just orientational specs. It was somewhere last year, and they needed to refine their tools and engines first in order to actually utilize the new hardware, right? Because if Jaguar is such a limiting CPU, no one bothered implementing advanced physics, AI and what's not into their engines, and it also takes time.

So, we have launch titles that are far into development, and what most kids here ask for is a simple corridor shooter to change into sophisticated open-world RPG within a year... Whether a launch title for the upcoming gen will be available on older consoles or will be exclusive to new ones, I honestly don't expect much more than just prettier graphics, higher framerates and faster loadings. Basically like playing base PS4/XB1 games on a 5k$ PC.

The so-called "true" next-gen titles started being developed just recently, or haven't even begun yet, and won't be available earlier than 2022-2023, halfway of the generation, like it always have happened.

But then again, time will tell as always. Bottom line is, current-gen consoles sooner or later will have to be abandoned, when it will happen? It's up to us gamers entirely, the sooner the majority of us jumps onto new hardware the sooner the publishers will start to take notice.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

This tweeter thread is interesting


TL;DR is Jez corden from windows central says 8th gen won't hold next gen's hardware because "XsX's devkits have all the tools to scale games completely across the ecosystem"

Well they're developing with PC in mind now as well so it makes sense for the devkit and its tools be able to scale effectively.

 

[Panajev2001a]

These are the 8th generation launch exclusive games of note.

• Killzone
• Knack
• Forza Motorsport 5
• Dead Rising 3
• Ryse Son of Rome

These are the 7th generation launch exclusive games of note.

• Amped 3
• Cameo
• Perfect Dark Zero
• Project Gotham Racing 3
• Resistance: Fall of Man
• Genji: Days of the Blade

Right.....

Yawn ... (you keep leaving games out of the first year or two which is the fair comparison with your overarching point) still does not change the point no matter how much you circle around it just because this time... this time your console of choice has no exclusive and you gotta justify that year or two of first party cross generation support.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Well they're developing with PC in mind now as well so it makes sense for the devkit and its tools be able to scale effectively.

You and odium need to have a group meeting... either this scaling bit is easy and been done before for years or it is new and "that what then and this is now... tooling... etc..." .

 

[ethomaz]

Then you'd get the same thing that we got............


Again... FH3 and FH4 prove that. They are not generational leaps over FH2 in any respect...

Nope you should got not the FH2 you got.
MS choose to develop two games instead one for obvious reasons.

FH3 and FH4 are way ahead FH2 in graphics.... a lot of effects and visual bells were only implemented in the later two.

I love how your best example support perfectly my point.

 

[TriSuit666]

FH2 360 version was a port, which was done by Sumo, it's quite a different game in some respects to the XO version. FH3 targeted Xbox One, FH4 targeted Xbox One X.

 

[Ellery]

While everything you say is indeed true, bare in mind the development time of modern games - the games that are gonna be launch titles started being developed somewhere in 2017, if not earlier, long before the devs received the devkits, and I mean even the very first prototypes with just orientational specs. It was somewhere last year, and they needed to refine their tools and engines first in order to actually utilize the new hardware, right? Because if Jaguar is such a limiting CPU, no one bothered implementing advanced physics, AI and what's not into their engines, and it also takes time.

So, we have launch titles that are far into development, and what most kids here ask for is a simple corridor shooter to change into sophisticated open-world RPG within a year... Whether a launch title for the upcoming gen will be available on older consoles or will be exclusive to new ones, I honestly don't expect much more than just prettier graphics, higher framerates and faster loadings. Basically like playing base PS4/XB1 games on a 5k$ PC.

The so-called "true" next-gen titles started being developed just recently, or haven't even begun yet, and won't be available earlier than 2022-2023, halfway of the generation, like it always have happened.

But then again, time will tell as always. Bottom line is, current-gen consoles sooner or later will have to be abandoned, when it will happen? It's up to us gamers entirely, the sooner the majority of us jumps onto new hardware the sooner the publishers will start to take notice.

Yep true. I don't expect the PS5 to launch with a game that is going to look as good as a <insert random Naughty Dog PS5 exclusive game> that will come out in 2025. It always takes a bit of time and usually the big AAA games are in development for 3-8 years depending on how well it goes and how many times they have to start over.

However I still expect that we will get PS5 exclusive games at launch (or around the launch window. lets say between Nov 2020 and July 2021) that will look better than the cross generational Microsoft titles à la Halo infinite. And by look better I also mean the scale, the things besides graphics.

 

[CrisPy2019]

Removed the part about the graphics. My bad.

You haven't responded to the gameplay related portion. It's a shame, because I came here to discuss a real world example of how MS has done cross-gen in the past.

I believe it to be an indicator of how MS will fulfill their promise.

I don't think that will be the case.

XSX can basically play XBO games out of the box. 360 is totally different architecture and there were actual ports needed. If you already have to make the port you can as well change modes etc.

I think XSX will play games let's say 4k60Ultra and XBO will play them 1080p60 medium and 720p30 low.
On the OneX or OneS consoles.

Or if needed then 900p60 on X and 600p on S.

Everything else will be way to much effort. Therefore no new modes or other modes. If anything missing modes on old gen.

 

[Ten_Fold]

I wonder if they will do cross play between the one and the X