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[C4Lukins]

:lol

WTF`

The point is that any top video game is outselling both formats combined on a monthly basis. Not only that, but it is outselling both formats combined at triple the pricepoints. Look at this. Gears of War sold 1 million copies at 60 plus bucks its opening week/ maybe month. From what I have read, over the entire BR/HDDVD lifetime they have still not sold 2 million copies total, and the average price payed is under 30 bucks per a movie.

Correct me if I am wrong. But everyone is losing a lot of money right now. Losing a bit less is not a bragging right. Casino Royale would be dancing if it was able to break even on its extras for BR.

 

[Brofist]

The point is that any top video game is outselling both formats combined on a monthly basis. Not only that, but it is outselling both formats combined at triple the pricepoints. Look at this. Gears of War sold 1 million copies at 60 plus bucks its opening week/ maybe month. From what I have read, over the entire BR/HDDVD lifetime they have still not sold 2 million copies total, and the average price payed is under 30 bucks per a movie.

Correct me if I am wrong. But everyone is losing a lot of money right now. Losing a bit less is not a bragging right. Casino Royale would be dancing if it was able to break even on its extras for BR.

yeah so what was your point again?

 

[C4Lukins]

yeah so what was your point again?

That whatever numbers we are throwing at each other to prove a winner are completely insignifigant at this moment. We are talking about billions of dollars invested with only a couple hundred of millions of dollars in sales at best. Both the BR and HDDVD people are losing a shit ton of money right now.

 

[mckmas8808]

The point is that any top video game is outselling both formats combined on a monthly basis. Not only that, but it is outselling both formats combined at triple the pricepoints. Look at this. Gears of War sold 1 million copies at 60 plus bucks its opening week/ maybe month. From what I have read, over the entire BR/HDDVD lifetime they have still not sold 2 million copies total, and the average price payed is under 30 bucks per a movie.

Correct me if I am wrong. But everyone is losing a lot of money right now. Losing a bit less is not a bragging right. Casino Royale would be dancing if it was able to break even on its extras for BR.

Yeah buy Bubble yum is outselling Wii Play 3 to 1. So what's your point again?

 

[C4Lukins]

Yeah buy Bubble yum is outselling Wii Play 3 to 1. So what's your point again?

My point is that people are deeming BR a success because it is doing much better then HDDVD right now. If you look at it on a grander scale, and you try to look at the actual income, and then start trying to look at the cost, it does not look as pretty.

Lets say the average PS3 loses 200 dollars. Lets pretend that BR is free to produce and they make 30 bucks on each copy sold. PS3 has maybe sold 3 million units, that is a loss of 600 million dollars right. That is 20 million BR's sold before we are even looking at a profit, and that is assuming every dollar goes to Sony. That is 20 times the amount they are at now. This is not a rag on Sony thing, you just cannot brag about one format kicking anothers ass while at this moment, it is an obvious dollar sink.

 

[Lain]

Why are you comparing apples to oranges?

 

[C4Lukins]

Why are you comparing apples to oranges?

Because oranges are better, they always have been, and everyone who disagrees sucks.

 

[MickeyKnox]

Because oranges are better, they always have been, and everyone who disagrees sucks.

Oranges are for pussies who can't handle the citrusy awesomeness that is grapefruit.

 

[fortified_concept]

My point is that people are deeming BR a success because it is doing much better then HDDVD right now. If you look at it on a grander scale, and you try to look at the actual income, and then start trying to look at the cost, it does not look as pretty.

Lets say the average PS3 loses 200 dollars. Lets pretend that BR is free to produce and they make 30 bucks on each copy sold. PS3 has maybe sold 3 million units, that is a loss of 600 million dollars right. That is 20 million BR's sold before we are even looking at a profit, and that is assuming every dollar goes to Sony. That is 20 times the amount they are at now. This is not a rag on Sony thing, you just cannot brag about one format kicking anothers ass while at this moment, it is an obvious dollar sink.

The only "point" you made here and has become pretty clear is that you can't handle something -anything- on PS3 being a success so you feel obliged to make very very lame comparisons to proove that it isn't. Whatever it takes, even if it means that you have to compare game sales to movie sales. These threads really show the efralopes of this forum.

 

[EviLore]

My point is that people are deeming BR a success because it is doing much better then HDDVD right now. If you look at it on a grander scale, and you try to look at the actual income, and then start trying to look at the cost, it does not look as pretty.

Lets say the average PS3 loses 200 dollars. Lets pretend that BR is free to produce and they make 30 bucks on each copy sold. PS3 has maybe sold 3 million units, that is a loss of 600 million dollars right. That is 20 million BR's sold before we are even looking at a profit, and that is assuming every dollar goes to Sony. That is 20 times the amount they are at now. This is not a rag on Sony thing, you just cannot brag about one format kicking anothers ass while at this moment, it is an obvious dollar sink.

Why are you putting the weight of sony's loss per console with the PS3 solely on the back of blu-ray movie sales? And it's sony's strategy every gen so far to launch with the hardware at a loss and make it up in the long term, so blame the blu-ray drive for the high price point but not for sony losing money on each console sold.

 

[Mrbob]

PS3 isn't the only blu ray player.

Sony isn't the only major blu ray backer.

C4Lukins keep the console crap out of this thread.

 

[el Diablo]

My point is that people are deeming BR a success because it is doing much better then HDDVD right now. If you look at it on a grander scale, and you try to look at the actual income, and then start trying to look at the cost, it does not look as pretty.

Lets say the average PS3 loses 200 dollars. Lets pretend that BR is free to produce and they make 30 bucks on each copy sold. PS3 has maybe sold 3 million units, that is a loss of 600 million dollars right. That is 20 million BR's sold before we are even looking at a profit, and that is assuming every dollar goes to Sony. That is 20 times the amount they are at now. This is not a rag on Sony thing, you just cannot brag about one format kicking anothers ass while at this moment, it is an obvious dollar sink.

Have you magically forgot that Toshiba has been subsidizing part of the cost of players since the very beginning?

 

[quest]

PS3 isn't the only blu ray player.

Sony isn't the only major blu ray backer.

C4Lukins keep the console crap out of this thread.

With pricing the PS3 might as well be the only blue ray player. I was hoping with the low pricing recently of hd-dvd players we would see some lower priced blue ray players.

 

[mckmas8808]

With pricing the PS3 might as well be the only blue ray player. I was hoping with the low pricing recently of hd-dvd players we would see some lower priced blue ray players.

Without counting the PS3, more stand-alone blu-ray player have been sold than stand-alone HD-DVD players.

 

[maharg]

Without counting the PS3, more stand-alone blu-ray player have been sold than stand-alone HD-DVD players.

Is there a source on this? Someone said it earlier as well without sourcing. Best I could find was this:
http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/new...nue_to_Rise,_But_No_Winner_Likely_in_2007/512
which contradicts that.

 

[AVclub]

Correct me if I am wrong. But everyone is losing a lot of money right now. Losing a bit less is not a bragging right. Casino Royale would be dancing if it was able to break even on its extras for BR.

Extras on a disc cost very little to make. Nobody judges the success of a home video release based on whether they break even on the extras. The costs of creating home video releases on DVD/HD-DVD/Blu-ray in general are quite small in comparison with a film's overall budget or even its advertising budget.

So while Casino Royal is a movie and therefor cannot dance. I can assure you that it has already broke even on the cost of its Blu-Ray extras before even a single disc was sold.

 

[Captain N]

can someone help me out here? I own Superman Returns on Blu Ray and the movie is very, very grainy. Any reason why it might be like this? All my other Blu Ray movies look crystal clear..is that just how the PQ turned out? Will I find a better PQ on the HDDvD?

 

[EviLore]

can someone help me out here? I own Superman Returns on Blu Ray and the movie is very, very grainy. Any reason why it might be like this? All my other Blu Ray movies look crystal clear..is that just how the PQ turned out? Will I find a better PQ on the HDDvD?

Identical transfers on blu-ray and hd-dvd. Highdefdigest calls the video quality "so pristine looking that it feels sterile", and it's had numerous complaints for being too soft, but this is the first I've heard of graininess. May be a component of your home theater.

 

[pswii60]

Might be LTTP, but just noticed that Planet Earth on HDDVD (#4 in DVD) is completely trouncing Planet Earth on Blu-Ray (#16 in DVD) in sales... according to amazon.com

I thought Blu-Ray was taking over the world?

 

[djkimothy]

Might be LTTP, but just noticed that Planet Earth on HDDVD (#4 in DVD) is completely trouncing Planet Earth on Blu-Ray (#16 in DVD) in sales... according to amazon.com

I thought Blu-Ray was taking over the world?

If you haven't noticed from the last page or so. Yesterday was "Let's buy an HDDVD movie(s) day." So most adopters have been holding off purchases till Sunday (15th), hence the huge surge of HDDVD movie sales.

BTW, planet earth (HDDVD) is number 4!!

I think this'll be a good week for HDDVD and should see market share swing the other way. But when May comes...

 

[pswii60]

If you haven't noticed from the last page or so. Yesterday was "Let's buy an HDDVD movie(s) day." So most adopters have been holding off purchases till Sunday (15th), hence the huge surge of HDDVD movie sales.

BTW, planet earth (HDDVD) is number 4!!

I think this'll be a good week for HDDVD and should see market share swing the other way. But when May comes...

Forgive me for being stupid, but what is happening in May? I know there's Pirates on Blue, but anything else major for either format?

 

[EviLore]

Forgive me for being stupid, but what is happening in May? I know there's Pirates on Blue, but anything else major for either format?

Lots of blu-ray movies hitting in May (Most significantly Pirates 1 and 2):


May 01, 2007
Dreamgirls (DreamWorks)
Happily N'Ever After (Lionsgate Entetainment)

May 08, 2007
Battle of the Bulge (Warner)
Catch & Release (Sony)
Dirty Dancing (Lionsgate)
Donnie Brasco (Sony)
Revenge (Sony)
The Road Warrior (Warner)

May 15, 2007
The Fountain (Warner)
Stomp the Yard (Sony)

May 22, 2007
Apocalypto (Buena Vista)
Closer (Sony)
The Cowboys (Warner)
Flags of Our Fathers (DreamWorks)
Freedom Writers (Paramount)
Letters from Iwo Jima (Warner)
M:I-2 (Paramount)
Mission: Impossible (Paramount)
Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest (Buena Vista)
Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl (Buena Vista)
Primeval (Buena Vista)
Rio Bravo (Warner)

May 29, 2007
Basic Instinct (Lionsgate)
Blood & Chocolate (Sony)
Chris Botti Live: With Orchestra and Special Guests (Sony BMG)
Curse of the Golden Flower (Sony)
Weeds: Season One (Lionsgate)






HD-DVD

May 01, 2007
Alpha Dog (Universal)
Dreamgirls (DreamWorks)
The Hitcher (2007) (Universal)

May 08, 2007
Battle of the Bulge (Warner)
The Road Warrior (Warner)

May 15, 2007
The Fountain (Warner)

May 22, 2007
The 40-Year-Old Virgin (Universal)
The Complete Matrix Trilogy (Warner)
The Cowboys (Warner)
Flags of Our Fathers (DreamWorks)
Freedom Writers (Paramount)
The Hurricane (2000) (Universal)
Letters from Iwo Jima (Warner)
M:I-2 (Paramount)
Mission: Impossible (Paramount)
Rio Bravo (Warner)
The Skeleton Key (Universal)
Smokey and the Bandit (Universal)
The Ultimate Matrix Collection (Warner)

May 29, 2007
The Big Lebowski (Universal)
Dragonheart (Universal)
The Frighteners: Director's Cut (Universal)
Lost in Translation (Universal)
Midnight Run (Universal)
The River (Universal)

 

[pswii60]

Lots of blu-ray movies hitting in May (Most significantly Pirates 1 and 2):
<edit>

Holy sh**. HD officially launches in May, tons of stuff for both formats.

Looks like it'll be Matrix vs Pirates. While Matrix arguably launched the original DVD format in to success, I think the sequels (and time) have ruined any chance of the franchise having any similar impact again.

Which movie studio owns the rights to The Matrix, Universal?

EDIT: D'oh, just seen you listed them with studios. So, how come Warner aren't releasing it on Blu-Ray? Do we know?

 

[Zoe]

EDIT: D'oh, just seen you listed them with studios. So, how come Warner aren't releasing it on Blu-Ray? Do we know?

They're holding off for BD-J. I think it's slated for a fall release.

 

[pswii60]

They're holding off for BD-J. I think it's slated for a fall release.

Jeez this is turning in to the console wars with timed exclusives now. Suckzors.

I have a PS3 for blu-ray but held off on a HDDVD drive for my 360 as I didn't think the format stood a chance, but to be fair it still seems to be holding up fairly well. But I'd much rather there was one standard.

 

[ManaByte]

Jeez this is turning in to the console wars with timed exclusives now. Suckzors.

I have a PS3 for blu-ray but held off on a HDDVD drive for my 360 as I didn't think the format stood a chance, but to be fair it still seems to be holding up fairly well. But I'd much rather there was one standard.

How is it like a timed exclusive? They CAN'T release the same Matrix set on BRD until 1.1 works (cue the "extras suck" brigade).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc#Profiles

What is typically referred to as "Profile 1.1" (but is more formally known as "Final Standard Profile") adds a secondary video decoder (typically used for picture in picture), secondary audio (typically used for interactive audio and commentary) and capability of supporting a minimum of 256MB of local storage (for storing audio/video and title updates). Compliance with this profile will be mandatory for player models introduced to the market after October 31, 2007[1], but existing products will be unaffected. No players compliant with this profile have been announced or released.

 

[Oni Jazar]

The big news of late is Samsung (formerly BD exlcusive) releasing a dual format player this fall. Full BD-J and HDi support.

 

[pswii60]

How is it like a timed exclusive? They CAN'T release the same Matrix set on BRD until 1.1 works (cue the "extras suck" brigade).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc#Profiles

So does that mean that 1.1 stuff won't work on older Blu-Ray Players? (that is, if they ever release a 1.1 Blu-Ray player?)

 

[Oni Jazar]

The titles that use 1.1 will work on older models but the features like PIP will not.

 

[pswii60]

The titles that use 1.1 will work on older models but the features like PIP will not.

Right, I understand now. Extras suck, btw.

Spoiler

j/k!

 

[jjasper]

How is it like a timed exclusive? They CAN'T release the same Matrix set on BRD until 1.1 works (cue the "extras suck" brigade).

It isn't an extra's suck brigade, I (like a lot people) just don't care about them. And before some people come back and call me a Sony Fayboy again, I had the 360 add on and never once used any of the extra features in Batman, Troy, or King Kong.

 

[Ryu1999]

HD-DVD

May 22, 2007
The 40-Year-Old Virgin (Universal)

May 29, 2007
The Big Lebowski (Universal)
Lost in Translation (Universal)

The 3 HD-DVD exclusives that I want

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I have yet to read "extras suck." I have read "Give me the movie now, I don't care about the extras enough to wait" and "extras don't sell discs."

Mana, one reason you manage to piss people off so often is that you misrepresent them.

 

[Druz]

The mainstream market is going to choose who wins (remember Beta Max and VHS? course you do)

Fact is, consumers are stupid.. and they will pick the cheapest alternative. The cheapest currently being HD-DVD - so keep it in your pants, kids. Besides, who needs this shit right now aside from technogeek early adopters and playstation fanboys? Seriously.

 

[mckmas8808]

The mainstream market is going to choose who wins (remember Beta Max and VHS? course you do)

Fact is, consumers are stupid.. and they will pick the cheapest alternative. The cheapest currently being HD-DVD - so keep it in your pants, kids. Besides, who needs this shit right now aside from technogeek early adopters and playstation fanboys? Seriously.

Not all the time.

 

[djkimothy]

The mainstream market is going to choose who wins (remember Beta Max and VHS? course you do)

Fact is, consumers are stupid.. and they will pick the cheapest alternative. The cheapest currently being HD-DVD - so keep it in your pants, kids. Besides, who needs this shit right now aside from technogeek early adopters and playstation fanboys? Seriously.

At this point that's moot since only early adopters are the ones purchasing these movies. And so far that point has swayed little interest in this group.

I'm more inclined to think the "mass makret" will be willing to wait this out until a winner is clearly visible before jumping into the format. hence the annoyance of everyone since this "war" will be on going for a while.

Beaten by mckmas8808 . I should stop rambling.

 

[Captain N]

Identical transfers on blu-ray and hd-dvd. Highdefdigest calls the video quality "so pristine looking that it feels sterile", and it's had numerous complaints for being too soft, but this is the first I've heard of graininess. May be a component of your home theater.

I don't know why it'd be a problem with my set up since all of my other movies work perfectly fine and are crystal clear.

 

[kaching]

(cue the "extras suck" brigade)

Cue Mana's list of who thinks is on the "extras suck" brigade. Can't wait for this.

 

[Captain N]

I went to best buy

Spoiler

ended up leaving with a 360 HD add-on

, but I did look into getting some Blu Ray movies too. Crash has two different cases...Any difference in them>

 

[TAJ]

Superman Returns is soft, soft, soft, (so are Superman and Superman II) but has hardly any grain.

 

[DarkJediKnight]

Superman Returns is soft, soft, soft, (so are Superman and Superman II) but has hardly any grain.

Agree. It looks decent on a tv, but I've got a 100" screen and it surprised me how bad it looked. I own the HD DVD version.

Compare that to a launch title in Pitch Black, which OWNS Superman Returns left and right.

 

[Karma Kramer]

I am suprised.

HD-DVD's line-up actually looks just as good if not better then Blu-Rays in the upcoming months.

 

[YYZ]

I am suprised.

HD-DVD's line-up actually looks just as good if not better then Blu-Rays in the upcoming months.

I don't see how. Only Universal is HD-DVD exclusive. They have some good movies like every other studio. Disney/Pixar, Fox, and Sony are exclusives to Blu-Ray. Personally, I really want some films under Sony Classics that will be awesome in HD. If Warner were still HD-DVD exclusive then I would be singing a different tune, they have some kickass franchises.

 

[Stinkles]

Dual format releases kill me. I wish there was even a price difference to make me choose.

<Stares angrily at The Fountain.>

 

[Bad_Boy]

Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest (Buena Vista)
Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl (Buena Vista)

Mine!

I liked Apocalypto, but I'm not sure I'll pick that up. Seems like something I could only watch once or twice.

 

[Karma Kramer]

I don't see how. Only Universal is HD-DVD exclusive. They have some good movies like every other studio. Disney/Pixar, Fox, and Sony are exclusives to Blu-Ray. Personally, I really want some films under Sony Classics that will be awesome in HD. If Warner were still HD-DVD exclusive then I would be singing a different tune, they have some kickass franchises.

Just saying

Lost in Translation (one of my favorite films)
Big Lebowski (one of the best comedies of all time)
The Matrix Trilogy (pure action bliss with excellent visuals)
40 Year Old Virgin (hilarious movie)

appeal to me more than

Piratess 1+2 (awesome visuals and of course johnny depp)
Apocalypto (great cinematography but not really re-watchable)

 

[mollipen]

How in God's name did Blu-Ray get released without this BR-J stuff already worked out? It amazes me the amount of products at this point that get released and then are "fixed" later to be what they originally should have been. They had to have known that not having the interactive stuff nailed down was going to cause releases to be held back until it is done.

No, I know why Blu-Ray came out when it did, obviously. I just wonder what really looks worse - Blu-Ray not being around at all while HD-DVD is out, or HD-DVD getting a title that Blu-Ray should be getting, but isn't because the format isn't even done.

 

[Argyle]

How in God's name did Blu-Ray get released without this BR-J stuff already worked out? It amazes me the amount of products at this point that get released and then are "fixed" later to be what they originally should have been. They had to have known that not having the interactive stuff nailed down was going to cause releases to be held back until it is done.

No, I know why Blu-Ray came out when it did, obviously. I just wonder what really looks worse - Blu-Ray not being around at all while HD-DVD is out, or HD-DVD getting a title that Blu-Ray should be getting, but isn't because the format isn't even done.

Wow, a lot of people don't seem to be getting it here.

All players support BD-J. There are compatibility problems with some implementations of Java, but then there are incompatibility problems with HDi on HD DVD as well. It's the typical teething problems of a new and complex format - those of you who had early DVD players remember how spotty the implementation of DVD menus were back in those days. (Remember when the test of how good your DVD player was whether or not it could play the Matrix without freezing?) Several discs already use BD-J (The Descent, Dragon's Lair, Chicken Little, etc.)

What isn't implemented yet is the secondary video decoder, which I personally couldn't care less about. But if you insist on watching your commentary while the movie is playing (and for some reason you are up in arms about the "faked" PiP on a few BD discs, which I really don't understand), that support becomes mandatory in October.

Another profile deals with network connectivity which could in theory be cool, but again, we'll see what people do with it once it shows up. Honestly I'd rather not have updating banner ads in my movie menus, so again, we'll see if it proves more useful than annoying.

PS3 has the hardware to support all planned BD profiles, but as always with firmware updates, don't count your chickens until they update the firmware to support it.

 

[Oni Jazar]

Listen to Argyle. It has nothing to do with interactivity and everything to do with Secondary Video Decoder (BD Profile 1.1). The Matrix box set is set to release in BR format later this year BTW.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

Just saying


Lost in Translation (one of my favorite films)
Big Lebowski (one of the best comedies of all time)
The Matrix Trilogy (pure action bliss with excellent visuals)
40 Year Old Virgin (hilarious movie)


appeal to me more than

Piratess 1+2 (awesome visuals and of course johnny depp)
Apocalypto (great cinematography but not really re-watchable)

Seriously I hate this format war. When does those hybrid players come out?
(the ones that play both)

I want a player that plays Bluray/HD-DVD/old ass DVD

must buys for me are

Lost in Translation
The Matrix Trilogy