Support NeoGAF

[Lord Error]

Lost in Translation (one of my favorite films)
Big Lebowski (one of the best comedies of all time)
40 Year Old Virgin (hilarious movie)

The thing about those movies (I obviously excluded Matrix) is that their quality is not very dependent on the quality of their visual presentation. LiT and BL are two of my all time favorite movies but they're the exact kind of movies I don't intend to re-buy on HD format, because I could watch them on a 30 year old black and white TV and still enjoy the hell out of them.

 

[Meier]

I think Lost in Translation would benefit from HD quite a bit with all the cityscapes. The club scene would look amazing too. I'm going to buy Eternal Sunshine, but I doubt I'll buy the others at least initially (even though I love them).

 

[plagiarize]

If you haven't noticed from the last page or so. Yesterday was "Let's buy an HDDVD movie(s) day." So most adopters have been holding off purchases till Sunday (15th), hence the huge surge of HDDVD movie sales.

BTW, planet earth (HDDVD) is number 4!!

I think this'll be a good week for HDDVD and should see market share swing the other way. But when May comes...

as someone who wondered early in this thread if the blu-ray 'takeover' would be permanent or if we'd see the formats go back and forth, the recent sales spike in HD-DVD is pretty interesting.

it certainly isn't a one day spike either:

amazon sales, i know... they don't represent the whole market and that, but they were fair game when blu-ray took over.

now the change at the top is probably down to the 'lets all buy an hd-dvd' thing (so so so lame if you ask me) but looking at this, sales look to be getting pretty close again.

may... well, pirates vs matrix is pretty exciting... i'd expect pirates to win...

but... as PS3 sales are slowing and as PS3 owners catch up with the backlog of blu-ray releases, seeing blu-ray sales slowing down is hardly surprising.

blu-ray still has to be the favourite, but the blu-ray camp were a little bit too soon to claim they had won the war.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I'd get Big Lebowski in HD in a heartbeat. There's a lot of cool visual stuff in that movie, and since it's one of the movie I rewatch regulally, I'd like to have it look as good as possible.

 

[mrklaw]

The thing about those movies (I obviously excluded Matrix) is that their quality is not very dependent on the quality of their visual presentation. LiT and BL are two of my all time favorite movies but they're the exact kind of movies I don't intend to re-buy on HD format, because I could watch them on a 30 year old black and white TV and still enjoy the hell out of them.

yes, but you'd enjoy them a hell of a lot more in HD.

I don't consider my HD purchases to be based on how visual a movie is. All movies benefit greatly from HD. Its simply taking you one step closer to how they were originally shown in a cinema (or even beyond if you have a crappy local multiplex).

Especially old movies where yes, I did enjoy watching them on a crappy B&W TV when I was little, but now I can watch them how my parents or even grandparents would have seen them originally




As for that AVS HDDVD day. Someone should organise a buy bluray day and see how much that'd mess things up

 

[jjasper]

I think another point to make about the HD DVD surge would be that players had a price drop (~$100 I think not sure though) so now on amazon you can get a player and 5 movies for 309 pretty good deal if you ask me. I think I might hit it when matrix drops.

 

[ManaByte]

I think another point to make about the HD DVD surge would be that players had a price drop (~$100 I think not sure though) so now on amazon you can get a player and 5 movies for 309 pretty good deal if you ask me. I think I might hit it when matrix drops.

Yup, which would also explain this:

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/s...and-Alone_Players_Reach_100,000_Milestone/581

HD DVD has beaten Blu-ray to a major sales milestone, becoming the first next-gen format to sell-through over 100,000 stand-alone players to consumers.

The figures were announced by the North American HD DVD Promotions Group, the official umbrella PR organization for the HD DVD Forum (which includes the format's primary hardware backer Toshiba).

The 100K total does not include sales of HD DVD PC drives or the Xbox 360 HD DVD add-on drive, both of which continue to sell strongly.

The majority of the HD DVD set-top players sold so far in the U.S. have been from Toshiba, which launched the format with two models in April 2006. Earlier this year, LG Electronics released a dual HD DVD/Blu-ray player, and Samsung has also announced plans to release its own dual-format player later this year.

With an entry-level price point of $599 at launch, HD DVD set-top players cost about half of the then-cheapest Blu-ray stand-alone players. Toshiba further reduced its bottom-line HD DVD player to $399 on April 1 to spur more sales.

Though Blu-ray now outpaces its rival in terms of total player penetration largely due to the PlayStation 3, the HD DVD Promotions Group and Toshiba are touting the format's consistently aggressive pricing as the primary reason for the continued strong sales of stand-alone decks.

"Toshiba remains committed to drive sales with strategic pricing and marketing to complement the rapid market adoption of HDTVs," said Jodi Sally, VP of marketing for Toshiba America Consumer Products, in a prepared statement. "Retailers are showing a significant increase in sales volume this month so far. On Amazon.com, our HD DVD players continue to rank among the Top 10 bestsellers of all DVD players, which says a lot about how consumers relate to price."

How long HD DVD can enjoy its lead in stand-alone player sales versus Blu-ray, however, remains to be seen. Aside from the PS3, whose popular 60GB model retails for $599, Sony has announced plans to also debut a $599 stand-alone player this summer, which will help close the gap with HD DVD pricing.

Still, being the first format to reach 100K in stand-alone sales is a notable achievement for the HD DVD format. Thanks to the "PS3 factor," and Blu-ray movie sales enjoying a more than two-to-one sales lead during the first few months of the year, many have already begun to write HD DVD off as a format without a future. But today's announcement certainly suggest it would be unwise to proclaim the format war as over just yet.

 

[AgentOtaku]

....a long, bloody battle this will be...

 

[Suikoguy]

as someone who wondered early in this thread if the blu-ray 'takeover' would be permanent or if we'd see the formats go back and forth, the recent sales spike in HD-DVD is pretty interesting.

it certainly isn't a one day spike either:

amazon sales, i know... they don't represent the whole market and that, but they were fair game when blu-ray took over.

now the change at the top is probably down to the 'lets all buy an hd-dvd' thing (so so so lame if you ask me) but looking at this, sales look to be getting pretty close again.

may... well, pirates vs matrix is pretty exciting... i'd expect pirates to win...

but... as PS3 sales are slowing and as PS3 owners catch up with the backlog of blu-ray releases, seeing blu-ray sales slowing down is hardly surprising.

blu-ray still has to be the favourite, but the blu-ray camp were a little bit too soon to claim they had won the war.

Your post is useless, as the Amazon charts are useless.

 

[plagiarize]

Your post is useless, as the Amazon charts are useless.

i acknowledged in my post that it was an amazon chart and i know that those aren't exactly credible, but amazon were a fine source to track when Blu-Ray took over as you can see looking back in this very thread and they were a fine source to use when tracking Casino Royale in the top ten.

i'm not declaring any winners. i'm not talking absolutes. heck, i'm not talking about anything but sales on amazon.

 

[Meier]

If your format is winning, Amazon charts matter. If it isnt, they don't. Plain and simple. :lol

 

[AgentOtaku]

If your format is winning, Amazon charts matter. If it isnt, they don't. Plain and simple. :lol

pretty much

 

[yacobod]

If your format is winning, Amazon charts matter. If it isnt, they don't. Plain and simple. :lol

QFT

 

[plagiarize]

If your format is winning, Amazon charts matter. If it isnt, they don't. Plain and simple. :lol

pretty much.

I'm not sure if you could use it as a good "Overall Market" indicative. You could however, use it was a possible indicator of gaining momentum in some way.

so, an indicator of gaining momentum or useless? hmmn.

 

[Suikoguy]

If your format is winning, Amazon charts matter. If it isnt, they don't. Plain and simple. :lol

pretty much

QFT

All we used to have was Amazon charts, then the Nielson charts, which are accurate, started coming out. At first they mirrored the amazon charts, then when the amazon charts showed HD-DVD gaining ground, the new Nielson charts showed this was not the case.

So either Nielson, a highly respected tracking organization which account for most all of disc/movie based sales is wrong, or the amazon charts are wrong.

Go ahead and believe the amazon charts, you are only setting yourself up for disappointment.

 

[Mrbob]

If your format is winning, Amazon charts matter. If it isnt, they don't. Plain and simple. :lol

This was before official nielson tracking became available. Which pretty much renders eproductwars useless.

 

[plagiarize]

All we used to have was Amazon charts, then the Nielson charts, which are accurate, started coming out. At first they mirrored the amazon charts, then when the amazon charts showed HD-DVD gaining ground, the new Nielson charts showed this was not the case.

So either Nielson, a highly respected tracking organization which account for most all of disc/movie based sales is wrong, or the amazon charts are wrong.

Go ahead and believe the amazon charts, you are only setting yourself up for disappointment.

until we get the nielson charts for the last three weeks, isn't it fair to use amazon as 'a possible indicator of gaining momentum in some way.'

 

[ManaByte]

until we get the nielson charts for the last three weeks, isn't it fair to use amazon as 'a possible indicator of gaining momentum in some way.'

No, because it shows HD-DVD gaining momentum.

 

[Karma Kramer]

The thing about those movies (I obviously excluded Matrix) is that their quality is not very dependent on the quality of their visual presentation. LiT and BL are two of my all time favorite movies but they're the exact kind of movies I don't intend to re-buy on HD format, because I could watch them on a 30 year old black and white TV and still enjoy the hell out of them.

The only one I see not benefiting is 40-year-old virgin... but Lost in Translation has beautiful cityscapes and Big Lebowski has all those awesome drugs scenes... along with excellent cinematography.

 

[Emowii]

Regardless of what the latest Amazon charts say, it all comes down to one thing folks. How many Bluray and HD-DVD players are in people's homes?


We've all just seen the news that HD-DVD has just hit the 100,000 units of hardware on the market milestone. But keep in mind that each month the worldwide sales figures for the PS3 are easily 250,000. That math is hard to argue with. Those PS3 owners are not all going to ignore the fact that they now own a Bluray player.

So, start adding up the numbers, and realize how many Bluray players will be in people's homes worldwide before the end of the year. The Bluray takeover is inevitable.

 

[ChrisJames]

Regardless of what the latest Amazon charts say, it all comes down to one thing folks. How many Bluray and HD-DVD players are in people's homes?


We've all just seen the news that HD-DVD has just hit the 100,000 units of hardware on the market milestone. But keep in mind that each month the worldwide sales figures for the PS3 are easily 250,000. That math is hard to argue with. Those PS3 owners are not all going to ignore the fact that they now own a Bluray player.

So, start adding up the numbers, and realize how many Bluray players will be in people's homes worldwide before the end of the year. The Bluray takeover is inevitable.

When you will have a ~$200 or less HD DVD player going up against a $600 PS3 this Winter, that math is hard to argue with.

 

[plagiarize]

Regardless of what the latest Amazon charts say, it all comes down to one thing folks. How many Bluray and HD-DVD players are in people's homes?


We've all just seen the news that HD-DVD has just hit the 100,000 units of hardware on the market milestone. But keep in mind that each month the worldwide sales figures for the PS3 are easily 250,000. That math is hard to argue with. Those PS3 owners are not all going to ignore the fact that they now own a Bluray player.

So, start adding up the numbers, and realize how many Bluray players will be in people's homes worldwide before the end of the year. The Bluray takeover is inevitable.

just postponed then? shouldn't blu-ray sales be well beyond the ratio they are at right now compared to HD-DVD given that 3 million ps3s have been sold so far? 300 times the players hasn't panned out to even 5 times the software in a single week.

 

[Mrbob]

So since all these HD DVD players are getting cheaper, why is the X360 add on staying at $199.99?

It seems to be getting more and more pointless for that add on to be priced at 200 bucks. I can go buy a Toshiba stand alone player for 300 right now.

Drop it to 99 dollars and I may bite.

 

[Emowii]

just postponed then? shouldn't blu-ray sales be well beyond the ratio they are at right now compared to HD-DVD given that 3 million ps3s have been sold so far? 300 times the players hasn't panned out to even 5 times the software in a single week.

I didn't say the Bluray sales were gonna explode right this minute, but they have been higher overall than HD-DVD, and i'm not talking just the Amazon sales charts here.


I think over the next year, you'll see an accelerating of Bluray sales over the HD-DVD figures.


Also, if we take the software sales out of this discussion, it's still a fact that every single PS3 owner represents a Bluray hardware owner, and thus studio execs and the like will take notice. Even if HD-DVD sales stayed close to Bluray through this year, there are still gonna be a ton more Bluray players in homes by that time. Studios are concerned with actual software sales, but potential sales are an even bigger concern. Any studio exec can figure out that if we just marketed these things better, and made Bluray advertising the focus, we're gonna have the potential to sell a lot more units to that mach larger install base.

 

[Bebpo]

When you will have a ~$200 or less HD DVD player going up against a $600 PS3 this Winter, that math is hard to argue with.

You mean a ~$200 HD-DVD player vs. ~$300 Blu-ray player, since that's what they're aiming for by winter in the BD camp.

 

[ChrisJames]

You mean a ~$200 HD-DVD player vs. ~$300 Blu-ray player, since that's what they're aiming for by winter in the BD camp.

We'll see if that happens.

If that does happen then that will make the PS3 look overpriced IMO.

edit: and MS should lower the HD add-on to at least $149.

 

[Mrbob]

We'll see if that happens.

If that does happen then that will make the PS3 look overpriced IMO.

edit: and MS should lower the HD add-on to at least $149.

Who says the PS3 will be $599 this winter.

 

[XMonkey]

I must have missed it, but what makes Bluray players so much more expensive to manufacture compared to HD-DVD ones?

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

"We'll see if that happens" applies equally to HD-DVD players.

And if it does, I don't think I care who wins the battle, I'll just get a player if HD-DVD takes root.

* assuming a decent-quality for that player.

 

[ManaByte]

"We'll see if that happens" applies equally to HD-DVD players.

And if it does, I don't think I care who wins the battle, I'll just get a player if HD-DVD takes root.

* assuming a decent-quality for that player.

HD-DVD players are already $300. Going from $300 to $200 in the fall is a more believable jump than going from $600 to $300.

 

[gigapower]

I must have missed it, but what makes Bluray players so much more expensive to manufacture compared to HD-DVD ones?

Nothing, its just the CEMs behind Blu-Ray love making money and one of the reasons why they went with Blu-Ray was they were pissed at the DVD Forum for letting all the cheap Chinese players into the market, there by killing their profits.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

HD-DVD players are already $300. Going from $300 to $200 in the fall is a more believable jump than going from $600 to $300.

With a very casual glance, I find HD-DVD players for about $330 and BluRay players for abouyt $490. Stop FUDding, since you complain about it so much yourself. That's not the $300 price difference you make it out to be.

 

[ManaByte]

With a very casual glance, I find HD-DVD players for about $330 and BluRay players for abouyt $490. Stop FUDding, since you complain about it so much yourself. That's not the $300 price difference you make it out to be.

Just a few posts above:

Who says the PS3 will be $599 this winter.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Just a few posts above:

News flash-- you can already get a cheper BluRay player than the PS3. Again, stop obfuscating, fanboy.

 

[ManaByte]

News flash-- you can already get a cheper BluRay player than the PS3. Again, stop obfuscating, fanboy.

Fanboy? I'm not one of those people in this thread who limits myself to a single platform.

 

[Bebpo]

Fanboy? I'm not one of those people in this thread who limits myself to a single platform.

Yes. Because owning both makes someone completely free of bias =P

 

[fortified_concept]

No, because it shows HD-DVD gaining momentum.

Is this sarcarm? Because I could swear I remember you whining and whining and whining about how the "Blu-boys" are using unreliable sources to compare Blu-Ray vs HDDVD sales.

And I like how you believe there's momentum there. Can't wait till the next nielson charts are out to quote that.

 

[ManaByte]

Yes. Because owning both makes someone completely free of bias =P

Why would I spend 2x as much money on BRDs than HD-DVDs if I was so biased against it?

Is this sarcarm?

Yes, it is.

 

[chinmonster]

Yes. Because owning both makes someone completely free of bias =P

QFT. I own both and I prefer Blu-Ray, mostly on a hunch. If something comes out on both platforms, I buy it on BD. I guess there are more movies I'm into that are exclusive to Blu-Ray at this point than HD-DVD (Volver, Casino Royale, Kung Fu Hustle, etc.).

That said, the next HD-DVD I will buy is Lost in Translation. The most recent disc I own is Miami Vice.

 

[fortified_concept]

Why would I spend 2x as much money on BRDs than HD-DVDs if I was so biased against it?

Oh for god's sake don't you know you don't convince anyone anymore? Your double stardards are obvious to anyone who's been keeping an eye on this thread.

Yes, it is.

Well then the rest of my post still holds. The next nielson chart will be fun.

 

[DarkJediKnight]

Natalie Portman's ass in HD.

Sarah Michelle Geller's cleavage in HD.

:lol

 

[Karma Kramer]

I think all that needs to be said is HD-DVD is not dead or close to it.

Many people in this thread were announcing the war was over just last month and now look what is happening.

Its just plain and simple too ****ing early to say one is the winner and one is the loser. If anything both formats will die and neither will be successful.

 

[distantmantra]

Cruel Intentions is a total guilty pleasure and one of my wife's favorite films. She that was it was coming to BR and decided that it was time to upgrade from her VHS copy.

 

[fortified_concept]

I think all that needs to be said is HD-DVD is not dead or close to it.

Many people in this thread were announcing the war was over just last month and now look what is happening.

Its just plain and simple too ****ing early to say one is the winner and one is the loser. If anything both formats will die and neither will be successful.

I don't know about that. HDDVD had the best week of releases in months (the week Children of Men was released too) and yet according to the nielson charts Bluray still outsold it 2:1.

That's a freaking big indication imo that the format won't recover.

 

[XMonkey]

Nothing, its just the CEMs behind Blu-Ray love making money and one of the reasons why they went with Blu-Ray was they were pissed at the DVD Forum for letting all the cheap Chinese players into the market, there by killing their profits.

So really, if the Bluray group wanted to, they could come in with players just as cheap as HD-DVD because technically there isn't much difference between the two types.

Also, I'm sure the mass public will be eating up those cheap (but you're still spending $300 on a no-name brand for something to play movies) Shinco players if/when they come out.

 

[Karma Kramer]

I don't know about that. HDDVD had the best week of releases in months (the week Children of Men was released too) and yet in the latest nielson chart Bluray outsold it 2:1.

That's a freaking big indication imo that the format won't recover.

Or its an indication that Children of Men is not a big seller period.

It did pretty poorly in the box offices considering how well it was recieved by critics.

 

[fortified_concept]

Or its an indication that Children of Men is not a big seller period.

It did pretty poorly in the box offices considering how well it was recieved by critics.

So if Children of men won't save it what will? Matrix? Well I guess we'll just have to wait.

 

[DarkJediKnight]

I think all that needs to be said is HD-DVD is not dead or close to it.

Many people in this thread were announcing the war was over just last month and now look what is happening.

Its just plain and simple too ****ing early to say one is the winner and one is the loser. If anything both formats will die and neither will be successful.

Up until the last 2 weeks or so, HD DVD has had little worth buying. I think it's logical that those who held onto their money are spending it liberally.

Also, the price drop on the HD DVD players plus movie incentives isn't hurting sales, obviously.

And Matrix HD DVD timed-exclusive certainly helps.

HD DVD's achilles heel is NEW EXCLUSIVE releases. They are not even on the same planet as Blu-ray in this regard. This fall we'll see Spiderman 3, Silver Surfer, DieHard4, Simpson, Pirates 3. Those exclusives alone will propell Blu-ray into a considerable lead.

The only thing I'm looking forward to from HD DVD's side is Heroes and Battlestar Galactica, and even those will be cancelled out by Prison Break and 24 Blu-rays.

 

[Karma Kramer]

So if Children of men won't save it what will? Matrix? Well I guess we'll just have to wait.

I am just saying films like Night at the Museum and The Hitcher do better in sales then CoM.

So CoM is not exactly a good example to represent the current preformance of HD-DVD as a platform.

The Matrix on the other hand is a good indicator... though it being what? $100 probably will limit it sales quite a bit.

We will have to wait and see. But I just wanted to point out how premature some of you were a couple of months ago when you claimed HD-DVD was dead in the water.

 

[Oni Jazar]

Let me tell you a secret. The whole "FORMAT WAR IS OVER!!" wasn't used to state a fact, it was used to bring in consumer confidence that this HD battle was not a reason to hold back in buying titles and players. Think of it as a kind of pygmalion effect.

Obviuosly it won't be over until one format gets 100% company support, but which format do you think is the more likey one to achive that success? HD DVD - having to convert FOX, DISNEY, SONY on the movie side and SHARP, SONY, PIONEER, PHILIPS on the player side? Or Blu-ray who has only Universal on the movie side and Toshiba on the player side?

Anyone who is excited about HD DVD gaining momentum must not want HD discs to achive mass market within the next 4-5 years. The public will not enter into a format war. Plain and simple.