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[Suikoguy]

The next generation after Hilary? I really do contemplate moving from this country sometimes. I'm fixing to turn 28 but damn, the older I get, the more upset I get with the situation we are in.

The attitudes of the younger generations will shift the equation over time. And it won't shift all at once, basically I expect the position Sanders is taking on Israel to be the standard Democratic platform in 20 years (Maybe a bit earlier). What the Republican Platform will be, who the fuck knows. They need to still have a party in 8 months.

 

[Anastasia]

Who are you voting for who is anti Israel? Just curious?

I don't think an anti-Israel stance would be good either. Same with one that blindly supports Israel. I have not seen any politician come out who is good on this issue. Bernie at times has shown that he has the most balanced perspective on it, but I worry that he would still be too much in Israel's favor.

It's not that this is the expected position for Hillary to take, it's the expected position for any American president to take.

I said it was the expected position; not just one for Hillary. And that doesn't say anything against my point, which is that being the expected position does not make it right.

 

[nib95]

I mean that's shitty stuff, but I still think worse shit happens in plenty of other parts of the world.

And while I don't necessarily agree with the methods, I can understand why Jews would want to create a Jewish state where they compose a majority of the population and can be free from persecution after a long, long history of being persecuted and subject to multiple genocides. I don't agree with persecuting others to do that, but at the same time the Jews would pretty much have to colonize a new area in order to create such a state because they've historically been scattered across many different countries

What the fuck are you talking about? Are you trying to justify colonisation and the illegal expansion of land, by way of aggressively stealing it? I can't quite tell.

Are you also trying to justify some of the most abhorrent and heinous shit by stating other bad shit happens elsewhere too?

 

[goomba]

Trump at least says he will talk to both sides.

I honestly think history will not be kind to the US's support of Israels war crimes, much like it isn't to supporters of South African apartheid.

 

[Dead Man]

Wish this happened tomorrow so I could say "It was a Tuesday.."

It is Tuesday in Australia.

 

[Aaronrules380]

What the fuck are you talking about? Are you trying to justify colonisation and the illegal expansion of more land by stealing others? I can't quite tell.

No. I'm trying to say it's a complicated issue and that there was probably a better way of handling it, but that Israel does have a right to exist. And lets not pretend Israel's opponents have not commited a large number of human rights violations either. Which doesn't make it right what Israel does, but understanding the history of a situation is also important.

 

[BobLoblaw]

blind loyalty? Lol. Israel is our closest ally in the middle east. Israel has done plenty of fucked up things, but let's not pretend like we're just supporting some random country just on some politician's whim for no realistic reason.

I didn't stutter. Blind loyalty. Many US leaders refuse to condemn Israel for their treatment of the Palestinians, much less the illegal land grabs they carry out on a yearly basis. Yes, they're technically an ally, but that changes absolutely nothing. We don't need a President with a "deep, personal commitment" to anyone other than the US. Everyone else should be treated as standard allies, just like the UK, France, etc.

 

[orochi91]

I mean that's shitty stuff, but I still think worse shit happens in plenty of other parts of the world.

This isn't the "Oppression" Olympics.

The poster you're responding to has qualified Israel's actions as some of the worst violations of human rights happening in the world. Not the worst violations.

There is no hyperbole in nib95's posts.

Everything he's listed is factual.

 

[GameAddict411]

That's fucking sad. I guess all the things about the Clintons being a cooperate bitches is true.

 

[Aaronrules380]

This isn't the "Oppression" Olympics.

The poster you're responding to has qualified Israel's actions as some of the worst violations of human rights happening in the world. Not the worst violations.

There is no hyperbole in nib95's posts.

Everything he's listed is factual.

Fair enough

 

[Suikoguy]

That's fucking sad. I guess all the things about the Clintons being a cooperate bitches is true.

What the fuck does this even mean? If you mean corporate instead of cooperate, I had no idea Israel was a corporation. If you meant cooperate then it makes less sense.

 

[Lonely1]

Can't you guys just elect Obama again? Although far form perfect, he was much more balanced on his politics.

 

[bionic77]

Aah, so you read her remarks and that's what you're getting from it? Clinton's policy is "destabilize the Middle East and fuck over the Palestinians."

Is Obama's policy the same?

Because they have the same policy. Clinton was executing Obama's policy -- which is also her policy -- while she was his Secretary of State. Her comments at AIPAC today are an affirmation of Obama's policy, which is her policy.

You just said there were hundreds of thousands of reasons for the US to support Israel. I don't seem to recall you giving one yet.

And honestly I wouldn't care so much about our support for Israel if they didn't shit on the Palestinians. Israel has a right to exist but so do the Palestinians. There is no logical justification for their never ending occupation. At least not in my opinion. To me at least it is indefensible.

 

[nib95]

No. I'm trying to say it's a complicated issue and that there was probably a better way of handling it, but that Israel does have a right to exist. And lets not pretend Israel's opponents have not commited a large number of human rights violations either. Which doesn't make it right what Israel does, but understanding the history of a situation is also important.

No it really isn't that complicated at all, unless you're morally bankrupt, especially not the part about extreme human rights violations and colonisation. I mean, what the fuck.

 

[Azih]

Have you SEEN the other side's policy?.

Other side's policy has no bearing on Clinton. In words and action she promotes a neocon view of the world. Reverting to blame Iran for everything propaganda is terrible.

Saudi and Israel are far more destabilizing influences on the region than Iran ever has been and that's a fact. Obama's actions in starting to bring some sanity and balance to American Middle East policy is not acknowledged one bit in Clinton's campaign.

 

[cameron]

It's nice that we've decided this is simply the norm and we should just stick with it. ¯\_(&#12484_/¯ @ Palestinians. Like we're unable to simultaneously support and criticize Israel.

Bernie outlined his thoughts on Israel today: https://berniesanders.com/sanders-outlines-middle-east-policy/

Wish he would have said them in front of AIPAC though. It's definitely an area I agree with him more than Hilary as a supporter of the latter.

Sanders calls out Hamas and Hezbollah for what they are, and also talks about the plight of Palestinians due to Israel’s occupation, settlements, and control of resources. One part of that discussion wouldn't go well at a AIPAC conference.

 

[Whales]

I never said they didn't commit human rights violations. I argued you were being hyperbolic in your claims that they're commiting some of the "worsr human rights violations in modern times"

I really hope this is a joke post.

I mean that's shitty stuff, but I still think worse shit happens in plenty of other parts of the world.

And while I don't necessarily agree with the methods, I can understand why Jews would want to create a Jewish state where they compose a majority of the population and can be free from persecution after a long, long history of being persecuted and subject to multiple genocides. I don't agree with persecuting others to do that, but at the same time the Jews would pretty much have to colonize a new area in order to create such a state because they've historically been scattered across many different countries

Yeah, these kind of posts are why Hillary supports Israel. Good job defending Israel and completely putting Palestinians under the radar. No one cares about them, right?

I'm honestly disappointed. The US sending 3b (? is that right or is it even more?) to israel every year. Why are people accepting this?

Americans can't have free college but they can send billions to Israel, right?

 

[Suikoguy]

Can't you guys just elect Obama again? Although far form perfect, he was much more balanced on his politics.

Obama gave the same song and dance.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

I don't think an anti-Israel stance would be good either. Same with one that blindly supports Israel. I have not seen any politician come out who is good on this issue. Bernie at times has shown that he has the most balanced perspective on it, but I worry that he would still be too much in Israel's favor.

Not disagreeing..I've just been on this planet long enough to recognize that Israel and its importance has been a thing for decades, and will be for a good while.

It is Tuesday in Australia.

Dead Man with the save!

 

[benjipwns]

What the fuck does this even mean? If you mean corporate instead of cooperate, I had no idea Israel was a corporation.

All states are corporations. But don't tell anyone.

 

[AlphaDump]

Not disagreeing..I've just been on this planet long enough to recognize that Israel and its importance has been a thing for decades, and will be for a good while.

shit, just look at its placement on the map. should all make sense then.

 

[Azih]

Obama gave the same song and dance.

No. Obama is more cautious than he should be but what he and Kerry pulled off with Iran is tremendous. Clinton is back to the bad old days before 2008.

 

[Kthulhu]

Even Bernie said boycotting Israel is Antisemitism

Source?

Bernie also supports Israel.

Nothing wrong with supporting Israel, the problem is condemning all of Palestine and calling Iran our enemy.

I'll support Israel if they get rid of hard liners from the far right. That includes Bibi.

Same, his administration has been atrocious.

I agree but

THERE IS NO BETTER ALTERNATIVE IN THIS RACE

Bernie is pro-Israel. Trump is pro-Israel. Trump is so pro-Israel he will make it his mission to cancel the Iran deal, weaken the UN, and move the American embassy to Jerusalem. Read or watch his speech today; if you don't like Hillary's words in the OP, you're gonna really hate what he had to say.

Again I cannot reiterate enough my disgust with the OP for the dishonest and thinly disguised boosterism of Trump who sucked more Netanyahu dick today than anyone else in the race. He washed those Israeli balls even better than Ted Cruz. And yet the thread that gets posted is focused on smearing Hillary? The agenda could not be more obvious.

This is why Bernie needs to drop out before his deranged supporters completely shift over to Trump.

How about you read the quote from Bernie's website before you start comparing his position to Hillary's and Trump's?

blind loyalty? Lol. Israel is our closest ally in the middle east. Israel has done plenty of fucked up things, but let's not pretend like we're just supporting some random country just on some politician's whim for no realistic reason.

You're right. We're supporting Israel because millions of evangelicals think God will smite the US if we don't.

 

[The Albatross]

Trump at least says he will talk to both sides.

I honestly think history will not be kind to the US's support of Israels war crimes, much like it isn't to supporters of South African apartheid.

This comment around Trump is non-sensical... Here is a photo of Hillary Clinton with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas & Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu during the 2010 Arab-Israeli Peace Negotiations that Hillary Clinton was brokering as Secretary of State

Not only does Clinton advocate "talking to both sides," she's actually done it, and has been advocating for a two-state solution and has actually negotiated with both Palestinian leaders and Israeli leaders to work to that goal.

 

[Aaronrules380]

No it really isn't that complicated at all, unless you're morally bankrupt and inept, especially not the part about extreme human rights violations and colonisation. I mean, what the fuck.

I'm not talking about the human rights violations. I'm saying the entire Israel situation is complicated. But just as a question, what do you think Israel should do and how it should act in the current landscape? Do you believe all the Jews should be forced to move? Do you believe a swift integration of all people should be encouraged? If so, how confident are you that the large number of powerful antisemitic hate groups would not turn the tables and inflicting the same, or worse, actions on the Jews?

 

[Suikoguy]

No. Obama is more cautious than he should be but what he and Kerry pulled off with Iran is tremendous. Clinton is back to the bad old days before 2008.

Oh the goldfish memory:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cOJNC2EuJw

 

[Azih]

How'd those negotiations go? Do you seriously think Netanyahu was negotiating in good faith?

That Obama couldn't stand Netanyahu said so much about the man.

 

[Kthulhu]

I'm not talking about the human rights violations. I'm saying the entire Israel situation is complicated. But just as a question, what do you think Israel should do and how it should act in the current landscape? Do you believe all the Jews should be forced to move? Do you believe a swift integration of all people should be encouraged? If so, how confident are you that the large number of powerful antisemitic hate groups would not turn the tables and inflicting the same, or worse, actions on the Jews?

They sure as hell shouldn't keep treating the Palestinians as if their country doesn't even exist. That would at least be a start.

 

[benjipwns]

Oh the goldfish memory:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cOJNC2EuJw

lol look at this joker:

DCUPtoejuice7 years ago
Barr is the best use of a vote this year

 

[A Link to the Past]

Can we apply this bit to Israel, too?

What, and be anti-Semitic?

 

[Azih]

Oh the goldfish memory:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cOJNC2EuJw

I have eight years of actual policy to go by. Obama has changed the conversation since then but Clinton hasn't shifted her rhetoric.

 

[Suikoguy]

lol look at this joker:

Did you say Babar?

I have eight years of actual policy to go by. Obama has changed the conversation since then but Clinton hasn't shifted her rhetoric.

Did you not notice what year it was?
A presidential election year!

Yeah, it's bullshit, but it's nothing new. Perhaps 2024 will be different. The demographics might just have shifted enough that this fucked up Song and Dance won't be the same.
The core of the problem? Young people don't vote.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

What, and be anti-Semitic?

Dan Snyder
Snitch
Today, 10:25 PM, Post #230

 

[nib95]

I'm not talking about the human rights violations. I'm saying the entire Israel situation is complicated. But just as a question, what do you think Israel should do and how it should act in the current landscape? Do you believe all the Jews should be forced to move? Do you believe a swift integration of all people should be encouraged? If so, how confident are you that the large number of powerful antisemitic hate groups would not turn the tables and inflicting the same, or worse, actions on the Jews?

Why would I think all Jews should be forced to move? Where would they even move? I say at the very least attempt something resembling the 1968 borders, re-assimilate some of the stolen land and settlements back to the Palestinians, start diminishing the prominence of the overly hard right and extreme racists, in political terms and culturally speaking, start bridging public relations by Israel actually building Palestinian schools, hospitals etc in the new areas, start trade agreements between the two states so success is mutually beneficial, generally lift the more oppressive sanctions and borders, and so on. Basically there needs to be a political shift to the left.

I appreciate not everything will go accordingly, and there will be countless hurdles and lots of turmoil, but it can work. It has worked elsewhere. See Scotland/England, Northern Ireland/Ireland, Bangladesh/Pakistan etc.

 

[Kthulhu]

I have eight years of actual policy to go by. Obama has changed the conversation since then but Clinton hasn't shifted her rhetoric.

Finally! Something Clinton is consistent on!

Spoiler

This is obviously a joke. Sort of.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Dan Snyder
Snitch
Today, 10:25 PM, Post #230

DON'T GET THIS REFERENCE

 

[DR2K]

This comment around Trump is non-sensical... Here is a photo of Hillary Clinton with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas & Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu during the 2010 Arab-Israeli Peace Negotiations that Hillary Clinton was brokering as Secretary of State

Not only does Clinton advocate "talking to both sides," she's actually done it, and has been advocating for a two-state solution and has actually negotiated with both Palestinian leaders and Israeli leaders to work to that goal.

Hopefully she's able to get both sides to cooperate at some level.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

DON'T GET THIS REFERENCE

lol..Dude basically says ANYTHING said against him, including criticism for not changing the Redskins name, is anti-Semitic. It's his shtick..

 

[Aaronrules380]

Why would I think all Jews should be forced to move? Where would they even move? I say at the very least attempt something resembling the 1968 borders, re-assimilate some of the stolen land and settlements back to the Palestinians, start diminishing the prominence of the overly hard right and extreme racists, in political terms and culturally speaking, start bridging public relations by Israel actually building Palestinian schools, hospitals etc in the new areas, start trade agreements between the two states so success is mutually beneficial, generally lift the more oppressive sanctions and borders, and so on. Basically there needs to be a political shift to the left.

I appreciate not everything will go accordingly, and there will be countless hurdles and lots of turmoil, but it can work. It has worked elsewhere. See Scotland/England, Northern Ireland/Ireland, Bangladesh/Pakistan etc.

I can agree with this then.

 

[A Link to the Past]

lol..Dude says ANYTHING said against him, including criticism for not changing the Redskins name, is anti-Semitic.

Ah, sports! And racism

 

[BennyBlanco]

Can't you guys just elect Obama again? Although far form perfect, he was much more balanced on his politics.

Electing Hillary would effectively be a 4-8 year continuation of the Obama admin.

 

[Laughing Banana]

This comment around Trump is non-sensical... Here is a photo of Hillary Clinton with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas & Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu during the 2010 Arab-Israeli Peace Negotiations that Hillary Clinton was brokering as Secretary of State

Not only does Clinton advocate "talking to both sides," she's actually done it, and has been advocating for a two-state solution and has actually negotiated with both Palestinian leaders and Israeli leaders to work to that goal.

There's also a photo like this:

And yet here we are right now.

 

[Volimar]

Sucking israel's dick is every U.S. politicians rite of passage. Hell, not even Trump could avoid it.

This. Some people only want to be pandered to, and that's what AIPAC is all about.

 

[Suikoguy]

There's also a photo like this:


And yet here we are right now.

This might be the worst comparison made this election. And this election has been a shitshow.

You should be ashamed.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

lol..

 

[bomma_man]

Gross.

The de facto American position on Israel is so disingenuous.

 

[B-Dubs]

There's also a photo like this:


And yet here we are right now.

 

[Laughing Banana]

This might be the worst comparison made this election. And this election has been a shitshow.

You should be ashamed.

I suppose.

The fact remains, however, that one of the leading contenders who have the biggest shot of becoming the US president has, in strong and definitive terms, stated that every effort to account Israel to its mistakes needs to be quashed.

If there is something that anyone should be really ashamed of, it's that.

 

[AntraxSuicide]

No. Obama is more cautious than he should be but what he and Kerry pulled off with Iran is tremendous. Clinton is back to the bad old days before 2008.

Those are Obama's actions, which are not at all what he had to say at his own campaign AIPAC speech. You have to say this stuff as a U.S. politician to get elected. Only Bernie has hedged (and he's still really pro-Israel), and he's getting creamed worse than any second candidate I can think of. Hillary will be Obama 3.0 on this, which means she'll basically forget that she ever spoke to AIPAC at all.

This comment around Drumpf is non-sensical... Here is a photo of Hillary Clinton with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas & Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu during the 2010 Arab-Israeli Peace Negotiations that Hillary Clinton was brokering as Secretary of State

Not only does Clinton advocate "talking to both sides," she's actually done it, and has been advocating for a two-state solution and has actually negotiated with both Palestinian leaders and Israeli leaders to work to that goal.

To be frank, I wouldn't even bother unless you feel like they're arguing in good faith. I've had way too many people tell me that Hillary likes Citizens United (for example) this election for me to think that people are actually participating in a learning debate.

Hillary has got to love the Iran deal, and she would love to get her sleeves rolled up again to negotiate in that region with such a deal on the table. After a couple of years of dealing with Iran and the region not going to shit because of it, I think Hillary could pitch that sort of regional renewal to the Israelis. You have to win the people before you win their politicians, and Hillary understands this.

How'd those negotiations go? Do you seriously think Netanyahu was negotiating in good faith?

That Obama couldn't stand Netanyahu said so much about the man.

What are you arguing for here? Like, the only other option if you aren't going for a peaceful negotiation is non-peace. I don't want to misrepresent you, but it comes off here like Republicans talking about Iran. "You just know they won't stop building nukes! So I'll make them stop!" and then they just kind of wink since the audience knows that means boots on the ground (the only other option).

Like I said, I suspect that isn't your position, but it sounds like it might be. Even if someone isn't negotiating in good faith, you still try since the public display can sway people in those regions. Netanyahu can't just show up to a negotiation and scroll Reddit the whole time without the other people at the table ratting him out to the public, and I can guarantee a whole lot of Israelis won't like hearing about peace talks being a sham when violence is happening.

 

[Wafflecakes]

There's also a photo like this:


And yet here we are right now.

This is relevant because?