Support NeoGAF

[StealthGoblin]

Doesn't make it a next gen game. It also launched on PS4. I also disagree about the graphics but that's besides the point, if it releases on PS4 it's not a next gen game period.

In your opinion. I've played a lot of 'next gen' games and they've fallen short of Forbidden West in almost all departments?

Animation? Yep.
Haptics? Yep.
Visual presentation? Yep.
Load times? Yep.

Outside of there being a PS4 version, what features is it lacking for a vast open world title for a next gen game?

This gen will be 4k/30fps, or lower res/60fps for all games of its kind.

 

[Germuso]

Nah, redfall is the real only Next Gen game that will show the power.

 

[NightmareFarm]

In your opinion. I've played a lot of 'next gen' games and they've fallen short of Forbidden West in almost all departments?

Animation? Yep.
Haptics? Yep.
Visual presentation? Yep.
Load times? Yep.

Outside of there being a PS4 version, what features is it lacking for a vast open world title for a next gen game?

This gen will be 4k/30fps, or lower res/60fps for all games of its kind.

If it was "technologically" next gen like you're trying to prove then there wouldn't be a PS4 version that is virtually the exact same as the PS5 version and runs on the same engine and all with only minor graphical tweaks, faster load times and a 60fps frame rate.

Deathloop, Returnal and Ghostwire Tokyo didn't have 8th gen ports even though it would more than double sales. And you can tell they are next gen by the PC minimum requirements.

 

[TheRedRiders]

I think we're losing the sight of the bigger picture when we tie our discussions down to "next-gen" vs "current-gen", the final visual results will speak for themselves and Horizon Forbidden West is one of the best looking games released to date, even when compared to "true next-gen titles".

 

[ViciousAgenda]

The real improvement needed is toning down the inane chatter.

 

[Musilla]

it already is

 

[StealthGoblin]

If it was "technologically" next gen like you're trying to prove then there wouldn't be a PS4 version that is virtually the exact same as the PS5 version and runs on the same engine and all with only minor graphical tweaks, faster load times and a 60fps frame rate.

Deathloop, Returnal and Ghostwire Tokyo didn't have 8th gen ports even though it would more than double sales. And you can tell they are next gen by the PC minimum requirements.

And yet they fall massively short of Horizon in all of the elements I mentioned. I love Returnal - it's my favourite PS5 game, but it doesn't have a patch on Forbidden West in terms of technology or presentation.

 

[NightmareFarm]

And yet they fall massively short of Horizon in all of the elements I mentioned. I love Returnal - it's my favourite PS5 game, but it doesn't have a patch on Forbidden West in terms of technology or presentation.

Objectively wrong. Look at Returnals PC specs. Then look at the PS4 specs

Returnal is more technologically advanced than Forbidden West.

If you want to talk haptics,each of those games blow FW out of the water with its measly bow tension and general relatively weak implementation of haptics.

Animations look clunky and stiff just like Zero Dawn.

Load times have already been eclipsed by many games before it even released.

 

[ReBurn]

I see a noticeably improvement in image quality. The image looks smoother more pleasing to the eyes yet gives the illusion of being higher res? Maybe an improvement to their aa solution as the ps5 version in resolution mode looked great but had this over sharpened detailed look to it. Seems like they improved the shaders too, has less of that cross gen look to it. Also noticed improvements in:

Motion blur
Animations look smoother
Lighting/the way it interacts with the environment
Depth of field

For comparison the last picture is base game ps5 version.

I can definitely see the smoother animations on display in these screenshots.

 

[Beastclaw Raider]

I'm replaying lou2 on ps5 at 60fps, anyone who thinks naughty dog wont release a stunning game are out of their minds. Lou2 still looks better than some of this current gen games

 

[kingyala]

Objectively wrong. Look at Returnals PC specs. Then look at the PS4 specs

Returnal is more technologically advanced than Forbidden West.

If you want to talk haptics,each of those games blow FW out of the water with its measly bow tension and general relatively weak implementation of haptics.

Animations look clunky and stiff just like Zero Dawn.

Load times have already been eclipsed by many games before it even released.

possibly but the new dlc is ps5 native it isnt ported from ps4 or designed with ps4 memory budgets in mind... i would say the original forbidden west,gt7, ragnarok are all ps4 enhanced games though they look good on ps5 because of the upresed textures and assets but are inherently ps4 games... anyway lets wait and see the dlc first. But only ratchet and clank, demon souls remake are next gen at the moment

 

[UnNamed]

So the answer is no.

 

[StealthGoblin]

Objectively wrong. Look at Returnals PC specs. Then look at the PS4 specs

Returnal is more technologically advanced than Forbidden West.

If you want to talk haptics,each of those games blow FW out of the water with its measly bow tension and general relatively weak implementation of haptics.

Animations look clunky and stiff just like Zero Dawn.

Load times have already been eclipsed by many games before it even released.

Returnal's resolution is much lower.

We aren't talking PC. We are talking PS5.

If you went to DF and tried stating that Returnal is more advanced than FW you'd get laughed out of the room on most fronts. Given the scale of Horizon, it's environments, interactivity, animations etc blow it out of the water.

I actually think Returnal's animation (second to low resolution) is its weakest element.

 

[damidu]

I'm replaying lou2 on ps5 at 60fps, anyone who thinks naughty dog wont release a stunning game are out of their minds. Lou2 still looks better than some of this current gen games

especially nothing still touches it animation wise, which is kind off baffling so far into a new gen.
nd pretty much i a league of its own there.

 

[RJMacready73]

Just after finishing a sess on Call of the Mountain, whatever they do I hope they add a wee VR bonus level

 

[Mobilemofo]

Burning shores is DLC, nobody should expect a jump in gfx. It would be Feckin stupid. I'm expecting flight related goodness, better draw distance, bits n bobs. Won't be major, but will be very nice.

 

[midnightAI]

Objectively wrong. Look at Returnals PC specs. Then look at the PS4 specs

Returnal is more technologically advanced than Forbidden West.

If you want to talk haptics,each of those games blow FW out of the water with its measly bow tension and general relatively weak implementation of haptics.

Animations look clunky and stiff just like Zero Dawn.

Load times have already been eclipsed by many games before it even released.

what on earth are you talking about? you have to be trolling.

You do know that Returnal is running on Unreal Engine 4 don't you?

The two arent even close, also very different games, but what 'technologically advanced' features does Returnal have exactly? (except volumetric smoke, I'll give you that as that uses fluid dynamics for that, but even saying that, Nubis is just as impressive for the cloud rendering)

 

[K' Dash]

It will look good, with terrible mechanics and generic/boring missions.

I gave them a pass in the first game cause the combat was good even tho the missions were bad and the world boring, as a first try, it was actually amazing.

Then comes FW and they double down on the worst things of the first game, adding unnecessary complications and grinding.

Yeah the games look gorgeous, but that's it.

 

[NightmareFarm]

Returnal's resolution is much lower.

We aren't talking PC. We are talking PS5.

If you went to DF and tried stating that Returnal is more advanced than FW you'd get laughed out of the room on most fronts. Given the scale of Horizon, it's environments, interactivity, animations etc blow it out of the water.

I actually think Returnal's animation (second to low resolution) is its weakest element.

what on earth are you talking about? you have to be trolling.

You do know that Returnal is running on Unreal Engine 4 don't you?

The two arent even close, also very different games, but what 'technologically advanced' features does Returnal have exactly? (except volumetric smoke, I'll give you that as that uses fluid dynamics for that, but even saying that, Nubis is just as impressive for the cloud rendering)

Is that why it's MINIMUM requirements state that it needs 16GB of RAM whereas Forbidden West is built around PS4 hardware which contains 8GB of RAM?

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/re...s-pc-performance-and-the-best-settings-to-use

 

[midnightAI]

Is that why it's MINIMUM requirements state that it needs 16GB of RAM whereas Forbidden West is built around PS4 hardware which contains 8GB of RAM?

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/re...s-pc-performance-and-the-best-settings-to-use

What on earth has that got to do with anything? proves Decima is better optimised?

So Returnal is more next gen because it needs more RAM than the PS4 version of Forbidden West? errr...... o... k?

 

[ChiefDada]

Objectively wrong. Look at Returnals PC specs. Then look at the PS4 specs

Returnal is more technologically advanced than Forbidden West.

If you want to talk haptics,each of those games blow FW out of the water with its measly bow tension and general relatively weak implementation of haptics.

Animations look clunky and stiff just like Zero Dawn.

Load times have already been eclipsed by many games before it even released.

What on earth has that got to do with anything? proves Decima is better optimised?

So Returnal is more next gen because it needs more RAM than the PS4 version of Forbidden West? errr...... o... k?

Returnal (now my favorite game of all time) and HFW both best each other in different areas.

Returnal's robust particle simulation is simply fantastic and easily surpasses HFW. The 3D audio and dualsense implementation are a couple steps above too. I experienced a greater sense of immersion with this game and I think the tech played a big role here, but I admit this might come down to personal preference

HFW has an obvious advantage in character models, animation, geometry, textures, shading.

In short, they are both great technical achievements with different goals.

If the PS4 version held the next gen version back, then you could say the same of the Performance mode on PS5.

Personally 60fps it's the way to play this game, but if they only had to optimise for 30fps they could probably push things even further, no?

HFW performance mode is by far the best I've ever seen. The tweaks to their reconstruction technique has done wonders. Amazing how they went from worst to greatest 60fps experience.

 

[Johnny Concrete]

It will look good, with terrible mechanics and generic/boring missions.

I gave them a pass in the first game cause the combat was good even tho the missions were bad and the world boring, as a first try, it was actually amazing.

Then comes FW and they double down on the worst things of the first game, adding unnecessary complications and grinding.

Yeah the games look gorgeous, but that's it.

I kind of agree and disagree. They did change some things for the better, for instance the whole idea that you need to hunt for specific parts of specific machines to get gear upgrades. You can now make that a 'side mission', which is pretty cool. Little bit of Monster Hunter in there I guess.

I would also suggest to make the game challenging. There's a lot of customisation options to help with that. Once the combat becomes a challenge everything else starts to click: you want to have resources to survive, shards to buy new gear and the above described hunting of parts to upgrade that gear.

Also: I love the gyro aiming in this game. But I still hate fighting humans, they should've already scrapped that in the first game imo.

 

[midnightAI]

Returnal's robust particle simulation is simply fantastic and easily surpasses HFW. The 3D audio and dualsense implementation are a couple steps above too. I experienced a greater sense of immersion with this game and I think the tech played a big role here, but I admit this might come down to personal preference

HFW has an obvious advantage in character models, animation, geometry, textures, shading.

In short, they are both great technical achievements with different goals.

Completely agree, what I am trying to point out to the previous poster is that the engine doesn't matter, a next gen game can be on any engine so long as that engine supports next gen features (heck, doesnt even need to do that to be honest) and there are very few actual next gen only game engines (if any) and even then it doesn't make that game engine any better than a cross gen engine for next gen game development. Returnal for example, they could probably get that running on PS4 if they really wanted to with certain sacrifices, and if they made it it wouldn't make the PS5 version any less next gen.

 

[Edellus]

Besides better LOD management when flying and some minor lightning improvements, I'm finding it hard to imagine how much better it could possibly look compared to the base game on PS5.

I'm currently playing it and nearing the end, I think, and I've never seen a better looking game. This is the game I've used photomode the most ever. Nothing comes close. Every frame looks a straight up work of art. The lighting, the textures, the effects, the animations... Oh my god. I've even thought that "this is too much" sometimes, because I get lost in the amount of detail, movement and colour. If games from now on look just like that forever, I'd be perfectly fine and continuously amazed for the rest of my life with games' graphics. But if they somehow can make it look even better, I'll find a way to be even more amazed.

I'm having so much fun playing the game too (in hard mode from the start). The combat is quick and weighty. Exploring is always rewarding, finding new quests and people (the ones in plainsong were so touching), stumbling into cauldrons, tallnecks, ruins (with each it's own puzzle), the mounts (and it's combat is surprisingly good), stealth with traps and correct weapons and outfits is deadly. The story and the lore are so creative and makes so much sense. The character growth (specially Aloy)

I could go on and on about how much I love this game.

 

[ChiefDada]

Completely agree, what I am trying to point out to the previous poster is that the engine doesn't matter, a next gen game can be on any engine so long as that engine supports next gen features (heck, doesnt even need to do that to be honest) and there are very few actual next gen only game engines (if any) and even then it doesn't make that game engine any better than a cross gen engine for next gen game development. Returnal for example, they could probably get that running on PS4 if they really wanted to with certain sacrifices, and if they made it it wouldn't make the PS5 version any less next gen.

I've been trying to explain this very point throughout the entire thread and have since given up lol.

 

[Dutchy]

Definitely not easy to get into, it gets super fun but you really have to grind away at it to get many hours in before you're having a ton fun versus it feeling like Zero Dawn for a lot of it.

It's my main complaint with the game, it really puts people off who don't have the time to care and get invested, when it's peak is 20-30 hours or more in then you know its a bit slow (gameplay wise)

Appreciate the reply. That's super unfortunate. I can definitely enjoy slower paced games but I prefer a strong ''hook'' early on into the game. Something that I was missing in my first couple of hours.

100% will finish these games someday though. Just looks too pretty.

 

[ChiefDada]

Besides better LOD management when flying and some minor lightning improvements, I'm finding it hard to imagine how much better it could possibly look compared to the base game on PS5.

Yep, these are my number 1 and 2. ask in the OP. I will be beyond happy with the inclusion of next gen streaming alone, which Guerrilla has already confirmed for the DLC. I'm also happy that they keep emphasizing flying with every communication they've released for the DLC so far; they must really be proud of their streaming tech. People don't realize how much better HFW with invisible LOD management will look like. It is by far the biggest immersion breaker of an otherwise virtually perfect looking game and really the only area that reminds me it's cross-gen. Looking forward to seeing whatever they show us this week.

 

[PixelatedBeast]

especially nothing still touches it animation wise, which is kind off baffling so far into a new gen.
nd pretty much i a league of its own there.

TLOU 1 Remake looks even noticeably better, as it should, but the facial animations are excellent. I have no doubt Naughty Dog's next game is going to look amazing.

 

[TheRedRiders]

Returnal's robust particle simulation is simply fantastic and easily surpasses HFW. The 3D audio and dualsense implementation are a couple steps above too. I experienced a greater sense of immersion with this game and I think the tech played a big role here, but I admit this might come down to personal preference

Horizon's particle system is gorgeous, I agree that Returnal's is better but I think it's important to add context to this, Returnal makes far more heavier and important use of particle systems because the gameplay design demands it. (monsters/enemies + weapons + atmosphere).

That being said I do like that a lot Playstation first parties make heavy use of particle systems, it's one thing i feel is missing from many great 3rd party games, especially Witcher 3, which does have particle effects but seems to very lacking in them. They're a great addition visually, and the performance cost is cheap, even without hardware features like GPGPU compute.

 

[Cyborg]

Demons Souls.

Horizon doesn't look particularly out of this world. Its a beautiful game snd fun to play. But there are more beautiful games atm

 

[midnightAI]

I've been trying to explain this very point throughout the entire thread and have since given up lol.

thats probably wise advice

 

[RaySoft]

That's not how engine evolution/iteration works. It's not a "jack of all trades" situation if they're developing for a PS5 only project. Any PS5 specific tools/libraries they incorporate into the engine can be used as they see fit. There's no reason to use PS4 tools if they have better, more performant ones that takes advantage of PS5 hardware. Developers have been updating their engine from the time they received dev kits.

If that's how you understand game technology and you hardline for only PS5/XBSXS exclusives being proper next-gen, I hate to tell you this but....

Those fancy UE5 demos run on the same engine that let's you play Fortnite on your phone. That amazing Avatar game (should it actually look as good as the trailer) runs on the same engine as the Mario Rabbids RPG on Switch.

Games have been trained to salivate over a "brand new engine" being properly next-gen, (and often that has been how that works out, particularlyin the past when tech was not as incremental/modular,) but the engine is just the thing developers put their work into.

I was talking about a first party engine. Unreal Engine was designed from the get-go to scale across alot of different hardware.
I'm talking about squeezing out the last ~15% of a given hardware, that a multiplatform engine ("jack of all trades") won't do because it would be too much work to specializing/optimizing parts of the engine for all the different platforms, where they really don't have to.

A first party engine (like Decima) is more likely to receive that TLC that's required to rewrite the parts that were more generalized to suit an array of different hardware.
I'm not talking about the low-level stuff, 'cause that's handled by each systems SDK & libraries, but more tweaks and optimizations that are done on the engine itself to better take advantage of the new hardware. I'm sure new engine features/tools are already in place to better support the PS5 over PS4, but those are required to support the PS5's unique features that the PS4 don't have, so that's a given. But even those new features must abide to the overall constraints the engine itself may have on the basis that it was designed with the PS4 in mind.

 

[midnightAI]

I was talking about a first party engine. Unreal Engine was designed from the get-go to scale across alot of different hardware.
I'm talking about squeezing out the last ~15% of a given hardware, that a multiplatform engine ("jack of all trades") won't do because it would be too much work to specializing/optimizing parts of the engine for all the different platforms, where they really don't have to.

A first party engine (like Decima) is more likely to receive that TLC that's required to rewrite the parts that were more generalized to suit an array of different hardware.
I'm not talking about the low-level stuff, 'cause that's handled by each systems SDK & libraries, but more tweaks and optimizations that are done on the engine itself to better take advantage of the new hardware. I'm sure new engine features/tools are already in place to better support the PS5 over PS4, but those are required to support the PS5's unique features that the PS4 don't have, so that's a given. But even those new features must abide to the overall constraints the engine itself may have on the basis that it was designed with the PS4 in mind.

Well, no, that's the benefit of an in house engine, 'if' there is a restriction due to PS4 (unlikely, Decima also runs on PC with multiple configs) then they'd just rewrite that also. A well designed game engine wouldn't be written around specific hardware, it could utilise specific features, sure, but that's what SDK's are for.

 

[RaySoft]

Well, no, that's the benefit of an in house engine, 'if' there is a restriction due to PS4 (unlikely, Decima also runs on PC with multiple configs) then they'd just rewrite that also.

That would really depend how far that "rabbit hole" goes. i.e. Sometimes a redesign is needed down the chain instead of a "quick" rewrite, making it a more costly endeavour wich in turn ends up it dropping down the priority list.

 

[midnightAI]

That would really depend how far that "rabbit hole" goes. i.e. Sometimes a redesign is needed down the chain instead of a "quick" rewrite, making it a more costly endeavour wich in turn ends up it dropping down the priority list.

Then that would be bad engine design, not something I'd worry about with Guerrilla