How big is the power gap between Wii U and PS3/360?
- Thread starter Zee-Row
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OmegaDL50
Member
One thing Nintendo generally does not do is exaggerate what their systems are capable of. in fact it's more then the contrary that their finished projects majority of the time end up looking actually better then the initial reveal demo footage.
Considering Nintendo's precarious situation trying to turn things around with the Wii U. I don't think they are in any position to make fake/unrealistic footage that does not match the finished product.
TheKastorian
Member
I'll just leave this here ..
Now tell me the 360 or the PS3 can do that. Heck, even the PS4 would melt trying to run that.
My guess is you haven't seen the Uncharted 4 teaser...
Larogue
Member
Last of usI'll just leave this here ..
Now tell me the 360 or the PS3 can do that. Heck, even the PS4 would melt trying to run that.
Stratostar
Member
This thread went to shit quick. I'll see myself out.
Winterfang
Banned
Last of us
Different kind of game bro. But I also disagree with his post.
Septimus Prime
Member
...until you try to play split-screen with 3 or 4 players. Then it runs pretty asstacularly.
qa_engineer
Member
Has Nintendo released performance numbers? I would imagine Nintendo is pretty tight lipped about this type of stuff.
Nope. Not even the official developer documentation that comes with the SDK contains any performance metrics or detailed technical specifications as far as I know.
iamaustrian
Member
Nintendo developed games are mostly locked 60fps with much better lightning than ps360 games plus vsync. also the console only draws like 35 watts.
to the people not impressed with the ZeldaU gif and comparing it to freaking skyrim(which looks nowhere as good. plus it runs like absolute shit):
it's a pretty static gif. someone should post a gif which also displays the immersive lightning casted by the clouds/sun which is leagues ahead of any open world game on ps360.
couldn't find any landscape gifs but these are also good:
and yes, I've played lots of ps360 games and I own a ps3
to the people not impressed with the ZeldaU gif and comparing it to freaking skyrim(which looks nowhere as good. plus it runs like absolute shit):
it's a pretty static gif. someone should post a gif which also displays the immersive lightning casted by the clouds/sun which is leagues ahead of any open world game on ps360.
couldn't find any landscape gifs but these are also good:
and yes, I've played lots of ps360 games and I own a ps3
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Red Dead Redemption looks better....seems to also have a bigger draw distance as well:
Red Dead Redemption looks better....seems to also have a bigger draw distance as well:
Eh nope. The grass isn't even remotely comparable
iamaustrian
Member
so is the lighting and the skybox.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Those grass splotches in Red dead looking as bad as the ones in gtav last gen. If it had a next gen version, then it would probably look better.
CrimsonSquall
Member
Significantly is hilarious. Uncharted 3 and TLOU are staring straight at you right now
EDIT: I mean sure it's not open world, but that shouldn't take away from it
Lets talk more about corridor games and short cutscenes and compare them to open worlds!
OmegaDL50
Member
I'd say how much is going on, what's being rendered, how many animated elements on screen, how many real time reflections and light sources, objects that produce their own shadows, you know things that would take a hit to frame rate is clear indicator of what determines a game being truly more "graphically demanding" and is actually pushing the hardware.
Like I said before comparing highly polished games that put emphasis on graphical presentation by at a consequence have small environments and locations due to memory constraints is most certainly an issue.
The larger the world, the more objects needed to be rendered on screen, the more stuff that needs to be animated. These things definitely mean visuals would need to be compromised, unless you got tons of memory to work with to manage high quality image detail and having a large world at the same time.
Also we go back to a point I've reiterated three times, just because a game looks more "realistic" doesn't necessarily imply it's a "better looking game" over a game with "artistic / colorful" visuals.
There is a video in this topic I posted earlier. Google "graphics vs. aesthetics" The video should be the very first link. It does a very good explanation on this subject.
The vegetation alone lets Zelda wins by default.
Don't forget RDR is full of pop-up when you're riding the horse and most of the vegetation is very low res in comparison to what we've seen in Zelda.
Just about everything in those gifs are moving and animates. That's why screenshots don't do wii u games justice they look so great in motion cause there are so many animations running at the same time.Nintendo developed games are mostly locked 60fps with much better lightning than ps360 games plus vsync. also the console only draws like 35 watts.
to the people not impressed with the ZeldaU gif and comparing it to freaking skyrim(which looks nowhere as good. plus it runs like absolute shit):
it's a pretty static gif. someone should post a gif which also displays the immersive lightning casted by the clouds/sun which is leagues ahead of any open world game on ps360.
couldn't find any landscape gifs but these are also good:
and yes, I've played lots of ps360 games and I own a ps3
Pyramid head
Banned
That's really strange... I have played hundreds of PS3 and 360 games, but the Zelda footage still looked impressive? Are you certain about this?
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Entirely different requirements.
You have a set memory, fillrate, bandwidth limitation. Each texture, model, animation is eating into it. Something small like TLOU can waste resources on higher res textures, model complexity, because the resources available are not going to large swathes of land, with a myriad of textures, models, what have you.
The best comparison would be something of similar scale. Uncharted and TLOU are not that. RDR is. And in that case there is little to say. The volume of vegetation is like a worlds difference in Zelda's favor. Lighting is a wash. Neither is going for a similar style. And we haven't seen enough to say texturing goes in either games favor.
Marston is a lot higher poly model than Link though. Or maybe just better designed. Polygonal edges are very noticeable close up on Link.
The Wii U has a ~60% GPU performance advantage over the PS3/360, and it has much more RAM than those consoles. The real problem with the Wii U is its anemic CPU. The Wii U only has ~40-60% of the 360's CPU performance, which can make games run poorly.
On balance, the Wii U is probably a little faster than the PS3/360. This would have been fine if the Wii U had been released in 2006, but it isn't acceptable now. Developers have had such a long time working with the PS3/360 that they have been able to optimize extensively for those consoles.
On balance, the Wii U is probably a little faster than the PS3/360. This would have been fine if the Wii U had been released in 2006, but it isn't acceptable now. Developers have had such a long time working with the PS3/360 that they have been able to optimize extensively for those consoles.
Yes i did, still impressive, technically and artisticallly.
What i'd like to know though.... Did you ever actively played any games on WiiU ?
TheVampire
Banned
In DBZ terms I think the Wii U is like Goku as a Super Saiyan 2
Where as the 360/PS3 is Goku as just a Super Saiyan 1
PS4 would be Super Saiyan 3
Where as the 360/PS3 is Goku as just a Super Saiyan 1
PS4 would be Super Saiyan 3
Paging Dr. Blu!
The Wii U CPU is not really comparable because it lacks certain features but trounces the 360 CPU in other departments. If you know how to work with what is there, it will in many cases outperform the 360 CPU. Wii U also has a dedicated sound DSP to free the CPU of those tasks, wich already needed 1/6th of the 360's CPU in comparison.
Lol at people conveniently posting screenshots of games that run at ~30FPS against games that run at a rock solid 60. There's a reason why so many games that ran at 60FPS last generation were sub 720p on 360 and PS3. In the case of some games like Red Dead Redemption (PS3) not only did they run at ~30FPS but sub 720p as well.
thedarknight87
Banned
I am sick and tired of hearing this BS. The WiiU has a very shallow depth OoE pipeline. This OoE is not even remotely comparable to what Intel and AMD pull off even in their lowliest of cores (Jaguar). There is no way this anaemic pipeline will help it be more efficient than the PS3/360 CPUs which are clocked much higher. There is only one case in which the WiiU will perform better i.e. there are only branches in your code none of which are offset by more than the predict queue depth (which I believe is likely less than 8). I highly doubt any compiler would generate this kind of code for any purpose.
royox
Member
Nintendo developed games are mostly locked 60fps with much better lightning than ps360 games plus vsync. also the console only draws like 35 watts.
to the people not impressed with the ZeldaU gif and comparing it to freaking skyrim(which looks nowhere as good. plus it runs like absolute shit):
it's a pretty static gif. someone should post a gif which also displays the immersive lightning casted by the clouds/sun which is leagues ahead of any open world game on ps360.
couldn't find any landscape gifs but these are also good:
and yes, I've played lots of ps360 games and I own a ps3
People still thinking that is actual gameplay and not an in-engine scene.
They're both RISC based CPU's, but outside of that underlying architecture they are different in a lot of ways. Out of order execution vs in order execution, very short pipeline vs very long pipeline, paired singles vs VMX. Overall I'd say they're very different CPU's which have to be treated very differently to get good performance. As in something that works well on Espresso will kill performance on Xenon/CELL and vice versa.
As for performance, its likely better in some ways than Xenon and weaker in others.
The Maverick
Member
Yup. I've yet to see anything worthy of a large gap, yet alone generational. Folks should be just fine with that though.
Out of order execution certainly helps Espresso to be more efficient, that doesn't mean overall more powerful, just that it will help the CPU get more out of its available resources. Others reasons for better efficiency are the very short pipeline and better caches. Also as he said the DSP being there takes quite a load off its shoulders.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Its an in game cutscene...you think the graphics will magically change or something
The Maverick
Member
More like PS3/360 is Yamcha, Wii U is Krillin and PS4 is base Goku.
RobotVM
Member
Xbox One is Vegeta.
GOW3, Uncharted, TLoU have something the Wii U games don't: a massive budget and a development team filled with computer graphics geniuses hell bent on making sure their game looks better than the competitor's console. Nintendo's simply won't spend several man months on finding the most efficient SSAO solution or something like that. The simply fact most Wii U exclusives come from Japanese developers not called Konami already put them at disadvantage.
OG_Original Gamer
Member
So what are you looking for, let's really get down to explaining what defines a generational leap or impressive.
Is it just not seeing polygonal edges, texture resolution not high enough, no realistic environments. How about animation, lighting.
It just seems most opinions is stem from the need for realistic graphics. The closer we get to realism the more impressed some are.
Words like "Performance" and "Power" are not directly quantifiable metrics. It makes zero sense to say the Espresso CPU lacks the "power" of 360/PS3 CPU; Power in what task? You need to specify which aspect of the CPU you are measuring before that could possibly make any sense. Likewise saying the RAM and GPU out "perform" ps360; out perform at doing what?
I'm not answering either of the above or saying one or the other is right/wrong btw - they're just examples of how these sorts of threads can quickly turn to mush if terminology is not correctly used.
Edit: See below for prime example. "Capable" at doing what? Making omelettes?
theshape31
Member
Wii U is barely more capable than PS3 or X360. There are very subtle advances in technology that make it slightly more capable. But in the end all 3 consoles are so incredibly similar in their performance.
There was bigger difference in power between the PS2 and more advanced GCN and XBox consoles than there is between last gen machines and the Wii U.
There was bigger difference in power between the PS2 and more advanced GCN and XBox consoles than there is between last gen machines and the Wii U.
Fixed that for you.
OG_Original Gamer
Member
Please explain, what do you or don't see that brings you to this conclusion?
Angelcurio
Member
I'm not really familiarized with Wii U graphics, but i must say that GoW3 looked really amazing, so i don't know if the Wii U has games that can replicate this battle:
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Theres plenty of Bayonetta 2 gameplay that looks just and some even crazier than that
I'm not really familiarized with Wii U graphics, but i must say that GoW3 looked really amazing, so i don't know if the Wii U has games that can replicate this battle:
http://youtu.be/OAHup4CXF9E?t=22m30s
Enjoy, game is 60FPS unlike GoW3.
OG_Original Gamer
Member
I'm not really familiarized with Wii U graphics, but i must say that GoW3 looked really amazing, so i don't know if the Wii U has games that can replicate this battle:
Then check out some Bayonetta 2 videos or gifs. Look at the environment, surrounding battles with bosses. You'll notice that there's much more going on, framerate is higher, bosses battles are more chaotic.
Clockwork5
Member
Last of us
That game melted some PS3s lol. I remember rose posts in the OT. Also, framerate was honestly garbage in that, and many other ps3 games.
I'm sure Zelda U and Mario kart 8 both have/had massive budgets as well.
Just like Sony and MS invest large amounts of money in the development of realistic games, Nintendo does the same with their cartoony games.
The result is that just like there isn't a single cartoony PS360 that looks as good as Zelda or Mariokart while there won't be a single realistic Wii U game as good as Uncharted 3, GoW3 or Halo 4.
Clockwork5
Member
Simply not true. Wii U has more / faster / better structured memory. 4x more. A faster GPU with more modern shader capabilities. And is capable of running great looking games a 60fps.