Wowfunhappy
Member
Found the source of my framerate problems! RTSS was limiting all my games to 60 frames!
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HTC Vive Launch Thread -- Computer, activate holodeck
- Thread starter taco543
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GuitarAtomik
Member
Oculus tried to buy Serious Sam VR exclusivity (I assume timed) as well apparently.
Really, really shitty company. Glad I dumped them for Vive.
Specialmias
Member
Does Oculus have a confirmed console partner?
Fallout 4 VR on Vive seems to suggest it hasn't latched onto that quite yet.
GuitarAtomik
Member
So considering Resident Evil 7 is coming to PC, what are the chances the VR mode makes it over at some point?
No confirmed partner. They do have stuff in the works with Microsoft, but MS has also said they're working with Valve with Vive as well and conspicuously didn't namedrop Oculus or Valve when talking about VR for Scorpio.
I need to know this.
I mean, if it comes down to it, I'll play it in PSVR over a PC non-VR version in a heartbeat.
Reddit is really losing their shit over this oculus exclusives business.
On the one hand I totally understand why they're buying exclusives. It's their only possible way to go up against steam, which is a much larger and more mature platform.
On the other hand it's kind of shitty that they've expanded from "this game wouldn't have existed without our funding" to "this game used to work on vive but now it won't for an indeterminate amount of time because dollars"
It's easy to think of valve as "the good guys" in the VR world but fb and valve are both amoral companies mainly concerned with making money. If this really starts hurting the amount of polished content on Vive, I dunno how long I'd be willing to take a moral stand and not switch to where the games are. Or I may just sit out VR until this crap settles itself out.
On the one hand I totally understand why they're buying exclusives. It's their only possible way to go up against steam, which is a much larger and more mature platform.
On the other hand it's kind of shitty that they've expanded from "this game wouldn't have existed without our funding" to "this game used to work on vive but now it won't for an indeterminate amount of time because dollars"
It's easy to think of valve as "the good guys" in the VR world but fb and valve are both amoral companies mainly concerned with making money. If this really starts hurting the amount of polished content on Vive, I dunno how long I'd be willing to take a moral stand and not switch to where the games are. Or I may just sit out VR until this crap settles itself out.
Wowfunhappy
Member
This. I freaking hate this tactic. From Oculus and from everyone else who does it (aka Microsoft)
I have zero issue with Lucky's Tale, Chronos, The Cimb, Edge of Nowhere, etc being exclusive because they (very likely) wouldn't have existed without Oculus's support. This is different.
VlaudTheImpaler
tl;dr
I don't buy this at all. Oculus had an enormous following before the buyout and even after. It wasn't until they started to get greedy with the walled garden like crap that they started to lose faith in their followers. I guarantee that most if not all of their following would have been just fine with using the oculus storefront to buy all of their VR games so as to support it.
It was a grass roots movement after all and it was picking up steam daily. Oculus would have been just fine sticking to their roots. More than fine IMO.
Compsiox
Banned
Vive support removed from Giant Cop, Oculus support added.
https://steamdb.info/app/451080/history/
This is fucking awful. I was looking forward to this game so much.
https://steamdb.info/app/451080/history/
This is fucking awful. I was looking forward to this game so much.
Yeah, no at the bolded. Even before all the walled garden thing happened, people were already choosing steam over oculus store. Mainly due to better refund policy and better integration with their current games. See this thread for example:https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/4cqtqv/buying_games_in_steam_or_oculus_store_pros_and/
GuitarAtomik
Member
I really doubt this. If a PC game is on Steam as well as another storefront, the PC audience is VERY likely to just buy it on Steam. The only chance Oculus Home would have in competing on those terms would be to make Oculus Home a better storefront. And let's be real. No storefront is going to be that good out of the gate.
Fallout 4 VR isn't coming to Oculus (Though it'll be fine, OpenVR) because of the lawsuit between Zenimax and Oculus.
You can bet your ass they would have doubled down on the moneyhatting for such a big game if they weren't legally fighting.
Zalusithix
Member
Sure, both companies exist to make money, but only one is actively poisoning the PC market. Also, given how Steam is a private company, its direction is influenced as much by Gabe's will as it is by dollars and cents. There is no shareholder pressure. I'd trust Valve any day over Facebook for that reason alone.
As for Oculus breaking consumers' will, in a hypothetical universe where Oculus buys out every PCVR title in existence, I'd just drop out. Flip to mobile and console VR exclusively. As big as Facebook is, they're not big enough to dominate the entire VR landscape. Even in that hypothetical universe. I'm sure as hell never going to reward them for their behavior. Certainly not with money.
Compsiox
Banned
I don't know what to think anymore. My heart is breaking.
GuitarAtomik
Member
On a more positive note, anyone else try that "Thrill of the Fight" demo?
Basically VR Punch Out. It's just an early prototype/demo, but it's still really fun as is and gives Holopoint a run for it's money for the "VR game most likely to make me sweat" award.
Basically VR Punch Out. It's just an early prototype/demo, but it's still really fun as is and gives Holopoint a run for it's money for the "VR game most likely to make me sweat" award.
Compsiox
Banned
Sounds fun. Will try at some point
There's no sense being dramatic about it. The things that are happening in this first generation of VR aren't going to make or break anything.
For what it's worth, I definitely understand Oculus getting exclusives for their store. That isn't the part that is shitty, at least from my perspective. What doesn't make sense is locking the games in their store to their hardware. Nothing about that really makes a lot of sense to me when the hardware sales don't seem like they could make up for the PR and software sales damage it does.
It'll work itself out in the end, though. Timed exclusives aren't really all that meaningful in the early days of VR when the user base is at its smallest; a lot of people aren't going to be buying in to any VR ecosystem this first year or two. And very few developers are going to sign up for permanent hardware exclusive deals given the small size of all the VR user bases.
GuitarAtomik
Member
Yeah, I still don't see this logic either. I'm still going to come to your store if you have exclusive games. I'm willing to pay you money. Why not allow it? You're not making a profit on your headset. You're VERY likely making 99% of your money from games being sold on your store. Why do you care what headset I use? I just don't get it.
The only thing I can think of is they're playing a long game where their headsets are going to be very profitable down the line, but I don't see how making the store open is going to ruin that. If they continued making the most comfortable/slickest headset and get tracking on par with Vive, people would have gravitated their way anyway.
Compsiox
Banned
They're trying to be Apple. That's all it is. Their only goal is to get people invested in their hardware and software ecosystem and they'll do whatever it takes.
Shit is going to get worse. Especially if snatching these exclusives doesn't have the desired effect. I promise.
100%
The shit they are pulling now is way above what is acceptable IMO and they are making it difficult to support them.
I hope it backfires. I love my Rift but this type of BS should not be supported.
It doesn't matter if it does get "worse" though. It really doesn't. It's a fundamental misunderstanding of how Apple moved itself into the position that it is in. Maybe they have the same misunderstanding, but the only thing that would mean is that they will lose a lot more in the process of figuring it out.
I mean, think about it. Apple couldn't do what you're scared of in this very market and they certainly tried. And it has nothing to do with principles or ideology or any of that shit. The market of the PC has a set of standards dictated by money. It's why Apple got stomped trying to fuck with PCs, and it's why Oculus has no endgame where they "control" VR on the PC. Hell, Oculus couldn't even bring a product to market that really defined its direction; they already had competition that was essentially a half-step ahead of them and landed right at the same time.
There may be another iPhone like market-defining moment that propels one company to an Apple-like position, but it sure as hell is not the Rift. And the underlying PC market desires and velocity of money will absolutely grind them into submission the longer they try to pretend otherwise. They will remain a major player, and you may as well get used to that, but the truth is their eyes are well beyond the PC space. They will eventually abandon the PC as their primary platform; the future of VR is not a machine tethered to a computer. And in that future there's really no chance of the same kind of "no exclusives" type shit to survive in the first place, because they really will be different platforms, and ones where games are only a slice of the pie. They might eventually become the Apple of that market, but not this one. And they have a long way to go before that future ever comes to bear.
Yeah, I was one of the staunchest defenders of Oculus after the Facebook buyout on this forum. I now have to admit that I was sadly wrong.
This is always a crucial point to remember. Valve isn't perfect, but at least they aren't legally required to be evil.
Dear Oculus, stop spending money on exclusives, and start spending it on compatibility (making Vive and other VR HMDs work on your storefront and games). Then on refunds.
Then on building a better, more integrated platform.
'Good thing' about Oculus Home is that you can be sure that everyone using it has VR. What can you do with that?
I don't know... how about a social VR hub that somehow links in with the games that people buy?
That's the kind of shit that'd draw people to your platform.
Instead of building good will, you're burning it through the very practices that Oculus talking heads have publically eschewed in the past.
If you're going to take the failing path Oculus, do it early so that the best minds there can still be employed in good service of VR.
Then on building a better, more integrated platform.
'Good thing' about Oculus Home is that you can be sure that everyone using it has VR. What can you do with that?
I don't know... how about a social VR hub that somehow links in with the games that people buy?
That's the kind of shit that'd draw people to your platform.
Instead of building good will, you're burning it through the very practices that Oculus talking heads have publically eschewed in the past.
If you're going to take the failing path Oculus, do it early so that the best minds there can still be employed in good service of VR.
Compsiox
Banned
Amen
Oculus is digging their own grave. They're wasting their time making sure all their users stay in their own little fence while the Vive is moving light years ahead of them. They'll realize soon enough they can't bring the console version of making money to PC.
I mean... i try to defend oculus where i can. Because they're still an important company in helping advance the state of vr. Just like Apple has been in other branches of tech evwn though i dint buy any of their stuff.
But this is the kind of move that lets us know theyre fundamentally misunderstanding the market place at the moment. Their consumer base are leading edge tech heads on the pc who have a certain set of values and loyalties. Theyre the people that will shill for your product... and to alienate then with your business practices is a strong sign that the people helming that ship either dont know what theyre doing... or feel very confident that help from that segment if the consumer vase isnt required.
To be fair some companies have managed to get away with this in the past. Cough apple cough. But if you're betting that you can pull if an apple... well lets just say good luck will be required.
Still think it won't hurt them all that much in the long run, unless news outlets really start to go into the exclusivities, and why it's a bad thing.
Also, see PSVR exclusivities, there's really not a lot of backlash there from what I've seen, even less so from news outlets. And they seem to have locked down a few pretty big names (though minor games), in Star Wars: Battlefront VR, and Batman: Arkham VR.
Me too. I took Oculus' history and Luckeys promises at face value. I guess my investment in the grass roots movement and the development kits made me more conditioned to believe. But at this stage there are no reason left for denial. I was wrong, period.
Some people say there's no need to dramatize this, but even as a former believer I think the opposite. I think it's very important that Oculus and Facebook are being pushed on the matter and to be asked tough questions so that they know that we are fully aware of what's going on..
It's 2016.., in general the exclusivity stuff and moneyhatting that has been happening in the gaming biz over many years is ready to be cut open and sanitized.
Exactly.
Oh for fucking sake Superhot VR is also timed exclusive. You already had good sales, you funded it with a successfull kickstarter...
On a brighter note, tabletop simulator VR support has gotten better since it's release ( with still room for improvement ). I really can't recommend it enough.
On a brighter note, tabletop simulator VR support has gotten better since it's release ( with still room for improvement ). I really can't recommend it enough.
Zoidberg Jesus
Member
How CPU dependent is VR at this point for the HTC Vive? I have an Intel i5-4690K 3.5GHz processor, which appears to be just above the minimum requirement. How much of a bottle neck is the CPU going to be? I'll provide more information if needed.
Edit: Thanks for the quick responses. I'll focus on upgrading my graphics card for now.
Edit: Thanks for the quick responses. I'll focus on upgrading my graphics card for now.
I don't think your CPU will be an issue in any VR games currently out.
The vast majority of them are more GPU-heavy.
Zepp Twofist
Member
Your CPU is above spec. It might be a bottleneck in four years or so if the CPU market is contiuing the way it has since 2011.
AwesomeMeat
PossumMeat
I know that feeling. I had both a DK1 and DK2, so I was very excited to have an early pre-order for the CV1. I took Luckey's word and was happy enough. Luckily their launch was such a mess I canceled my pre-order and picked up a Vive.
Wrestlemania
Banned
I just wish they'd sort out allowing Vive working with the Oculus store. I don't really have an issue with them paying for timed exclusives to their store - VR development is largely by very small studios at the moment and I want them to get all the help they need to develop games with some confidence they can make some money from such a small userbase, and it's reasonable that Oculus want to get a return from that through sales on their store. I also want to avoid the market being flooded with total shit cash ins which is happening a bit on Steam already, but then that's a Steam problem in general I guess.
But it's shitty that currently this locks out Vive owners. I hope they can sort that out someday, but it doesn't look promising. Maybe once they're less worried about Vive having the motion controller advantage.
But it's shitty that currently this locks out Vive owners. I hope they can sort that out someday, but it doesn't look promising. Maybe once they're less worried about Vive having the motion controller advantage.
Zepp Twofist
Member
This is explicitly the reason why people are upset though. If they never enabled the hardware DRM, people would be annoyed at not being able to get games on Steam but they wouldn't be in all out reddit-frontpage rage mode over it.
But I don't see Oculus backtracking. This is just who they have decided to be for some reason.
Yep. It is a hugely misguided approach and has the potential to backfire massively if they aren't careful.
First time I've heard about this game. Wow, that's a really, really questionable move to drop Vive support after it's been advertised as compatible with Vive and people have bought into it on that premise. Customers on Steam discussion forum have their torches and pitchforks out: http://steamcommunity.com/app/451080/discussions/
And a bunch are looking to get refunds, which actually seems reasonable under the circumstances.
How much money from Oculus is enough that it makes business sense to the developer to lose this much goodwill and customer satisfaction?
I'm not particularly mad with Oculus for trying to secure limited time exclusives (although it makes me less likely to buy), it's on the devs to say no.
they also had a bunch of publicity from youtubers with vives demoing the game.
Hari Seldon
Member
The hardware DRM is the big problem. I don't mind a store front exclusive but I'm not paying money for a game and then have to hack it with revive. Glad I noped out of buying an oculus.
The Giant Cop shit is reprehensible. And the SS VR attempt... I don't think of Croteam as a starving indie developer. I'm glad they/Devolver told them to fuck off.
I agree with this. If they continue this way and don't reverse their course, they will lose the majority of the enthusiast market, and right now that's the primary market for their product!
I agree with this. If they continue this way and don't reverse their course, they will lose the majority of the enthusiast market, and right now that's the primary market for their product!
Seems like Oculus/Facebook is getting desperate, now that players and devs prefers the vive and starting to pay devs to make their games exclusive/or timed exclusive for the Oculus
I have no problem with digital store exclusives (competition is good) but locking games to hardware is a really shitty practice
It's not about funding games that would be never made anymore without Oculus help.
I'm not going to buy those games when they get released for the vive.
Kinda pissed that SUPERHOT VR is exclusive in any way, especially shitty for those who kickstarted it.
Didn't catch that Giant Cop had dropped Vive support for Oculus exclusivity. Was looking forward to that but I guess I'll vote with my wallet.
Super shitty moneyhatting and both Oculus and the Devs that accept these are not helping this new medium they were clearly trying to support.
Didn't catch that Giant Cop had dropped Vive support for Oculus exclusivity. Was looking forward to that but I guess I'll vote with my wallet.
Super shitty moneyhatting and both Oculus and the Devs that accept these are not helping this new medium they were clearly trying to support.
Zalusithix
Member
They are banking on the casual market that doesn't pay attention to this sort of stuff. They were already big on the public name recognition thanks to the Kickstarter, and they have Facebook to bolster them further. Get enough exclusives - timed or otherwise - and they'll look like the peerless successful startup that they so want to be. At least superficially to those that don't understand the nuances of the market.
The gaming enthusiasts are just a small part of the VR pie. I don't think they give a rats ass about alienating them. Hell, they've already gotten a good deal of evangelizing from them before they did their 180.
DouglasteR
Member
Totally agree, but even after all this im thankful to Palmer, because he managed to sucessfully kickstart the new VR era.
Zalusithix
Member
Call me cynical, but I'm betting that he isn't. Even if he is, I'm sure all that money helps dull the regret. Money changes people. Especially when you have a shit ton dumped on you all at once.
GuitarAtomik
Member
This is true. More than a few non-gamer people I've shown the Vive to asked if it was the Oculus and had never heard of the Vive. They have zero awareness of all the negative mind share the enthusiast sector has right now and likely won't until VR gets more mainstream.
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