Astral/H3X
Member
Oh, full version of Brookhaven is out? Did they fix that weirdness where the weapon is jittery? It's the only game where I've ever had that issue.
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HTC Vive Launch Thread -- Computer, activate holodeck
- Thread starter taco543
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Dusktildawn48
Member
ive beaten the first (5?) levels i think, only died once due to using the
smg
im not a jumpy person at all
Here is the link for the walk in place locomotion test
Takes a min to get used to, but yeah zero motion sickness.
Takes a min to get used to, but yeah zero motion sickness.
Charles Alan Ratliff
Member
Oh, I meant I haven't fully experienced (as in, I skip large chunks of it) The FOO Show as I wanted to know as little about the game as possible before playing it. Now I'll play Firewatch and have context for the items that you can examine and such.
Haven't tried that yet. In project cars I'm generally fine but I do get a twinge/dunny feeling when spinning off track or reversing while turning - both sharp turning motions. Nothing unmanageable though. Also it helps to have the frame of the car interior around you. One car I tried that had an open top was a bit uncomfortable around Monaco (well their version of Monaco), possibly because of the closeness of buikdings and lack of stationary frame of reference)
Haint
Member
That's not weirdness, it's Steam VR reprojection kicking in cause your system can't do 90fps on it. Demo was horribly unoptimized, also doesn't super sample at all, renders out native 2160x1200. Can't comment on the final game yet.
Defaults to 1.4 in the latest version, and will use the multiplier setting if adjusted.
Grinchy
Banned
I keep looking up new streamers on Twitch who play VR games while I wait to be able to get my hands on a headset. This guy has the craziest setup. He has this huge, empty room with some kind of pulley system that keeps enough tension on the cables so that he can very freely move around without ever thinking about them.
No one is ever watching him when I see him on, but I find the setup pretty fascinating.
No one is ever watching him when I see him on, but I find the setup pretty fascinating.
Going to recommend ways to avoid the number one thing that's given me the most trouble personally and that's the strap.
Do not rush putting the headset on and instead take the time to get it fitted properly. Loosen all three straps before putting it on for the first time and make sure the triangle "sling" that is on the back is hugging the back of your head. The way I figured it was where it should be is the two side straps should be as close to if not exactly horizontal along the side of your face, if that makes sense. You definitely want the "sling" to be cupping the point of your skull where it begins to slope inwards.
The first ten or fifteen hours with my headset were kind of not great because of so much strap and head fatigue. Hope you can avoid that by following some basic strap advice.
Oh and also, as has been echoed in this thread a thousand times, you definitely want to wear the headset higher than you may be tempted to at first, with the bottom resting on the top your cheekbones.
Other than that, definitely find a way to measure your IPD. An eye doctor is preferable, but those printable online measuring tools are good too, but definitely do it a few times and average your results if you're doing it yourself.
One last thing; it can be really tempting to just start buying VR games and experiences left and right, but I've saved myself a lot of money by watching some videos on YouTube of the game first before getting it. That's probably just good advice for games in general, but especially VR titles since they're almost universally shallow.
That's really cool.I keep looking up new streamers on Twitch who play VR games while I wait to be able to get my hands on a headset. This guy has the craziest setup. He has this huge, empty room with some kind of pulley system that keeps enough tension on the cables so that he can very freely move around without ever thinking about them.
No one is ever watching him when I see him on, but I find the setup pretty fascinating.
I really need to set up some cable management too at some point.
Thank you very much! I will remember the strap advice!
What's IPD?
And thanks for the Vr tips too
bee
Member
saw this dolphin vr video on reddit, seems very cool, are there many games wii games where the aiming is decoupled?
https://youtu.be/Oqi3Ex9lBCI
https://youtu.be/Oqi3Ex9lBCI
koji kabuto
Member
Is there is any official sells number for the Vive?
I really want to see Vive 2 by next year as the VR technology gets more advanced.
the Screen door effect bothers me alot and with future releases i think it will be sorted out.
I really want to see Vive 2 by next year as the VR technology gets more advanced.
the Screen door effect bothers me alot and with future releases i think it will be sorted out.
Inter-pupillary Distance. The distance between the middle of your pupils, basically. The Vive has a knob to change the distance between the lenses to match.
No, but I've seen some estimates this week that it's around 100k now. Probably based on Steam games.
Wow thanks, didn't know that, I'll go see eye doctor this weekend! Been meaning to get a check up.
Zalusithix
Member
Sounds about right. Audioshield is ~60k now, and I think we're well past the stage where every Vive owner has every major game.
\m/etalStorm
Member
Here is another new approach at VR movement. What do you think ?
https://twitter.com/HegiDev/status/749391292568834048
https://twitter.com/HegiDev/status/749391292568834048
Sleeping Lesson
Member
Doesn't seem any better than the Budget Cuts-style teleportation.
Wrestlemania
Banned
It does allow for movement to areas beyond where you can aim to. Basically seems like a worse version of tunnelling though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKnM5gC-XpY
Sleeping Lesson
Member
Have you set your graphics backend to Direct3D9 or OpenGL?
https://dolphinvr.wordpress.com/
D3D9, but I've run on OpenGL and the performance was exactly the same. Even games that were supposed to run a lot better in 5.0(Twilight Princess) still run just as badly as in 4.0.
The only game that seems to be relatively unchanged in performance and is actually playable for me is Xenoblade Chronicles, which is funny since that's easily one of the most demanding games on Dolphin.
~Thanks you I will probably take a look at this later today.
Sleeping Lesson
Member
Huh, that's a bummer. I've seen nothing but performance improvement.
MrCompletely
Member
I always wonder how these people who use pulleys store their hmd. Do they just let it hang there? Mount it on a ceiling hook? Dismantle it from the pulley?I keep looking up new streamers on Twitch who play VR games while I wait to be able to get my hands on a headset. This guy has the craziest setup. He has this huge, empty room with some kind of pulley system that keeps enough tension on the cables so that he can very freely move around without ever thinking about them.
No one is ever watching him when I see him on, but I find the setup pretty fascinating.
Can you run it in extended mode? I can only run it in direct for some reason.
Sleeping Lesson
Member
I haven't tried to run it in extended mode.
hmmm, what settings are you using in Windwaker?
Sleeping Lesson
Member
I'm not home now so I can't look, but I didn't change much from the defaults as I recall. I'm running a 4690k @ 4 Ghz and a 980ti, for reference.
Astral/H3X
Member
That makes sense. I was wondering why that was happening, was the only game where I got that to such a small degree that it just seemed like tracking jitter. Glad to report that they seem to have optimized it in the retail version.
The problem with this is it seems so very unnatural. Teleportation happens so quickly and with so little fuss or thinking about it that it doesn't seem unnatural to just be blinking around, whereas this becomes this involved process. I feel like it would need some in game lore reason for it, like maybe a remote controlled teleportation device.
I think a lot of people's complaints about VR movement will be allieved when there are "in game reasons" for things, like how it's a spy tool in Budget Cuts.
GuitarAtomik
Member
I think it would look/feel a lot better if instead of an instant teleport, you had to put your face in the mirror or something like that.
Teleportation definitely feels unnatural. Games can mask it by making it part of the lore, but it wouldnt be ideal for every game to do this unless they intentionally limit their scope in order to fit teleportation into their vision.
This isnt a final solution, but seems to be a better option for games that are faster paced.(That Battle Dome game would be a lot better with it than with teleportation for example)
EdwardTivrusky
Member
FYI, ASDA have 24 pack Zeiss pre-moistened wipes on offer for 2 boxes for £3.
I've seen them recommended for cleaning the Vive/Rift lenses without scratching or clouding the lens so i bought a couple of boxes as they're £10+ for 100 on Amazon uk or 96 for £6 from ASDA.
I've seen them recommended for cleaning the Vive/Rift lenses without scratching or clouding the lens so i bought a couple of boxes as they're £10+ for 100 on Amazon uk or 96 for £6 from ASDA.
For the people having issues with 1080 and 1070 cards: the displayport is incompatible with Vive HMD.
Ha I tried a bunch of stuff (there was a biggish SteamVR update, new angles on lighthouses, turned off a bunch of software) and had a few solid hours last where I noticed almost zero tracking skips, tried out a bunch of stuff and really enjoyed it, then closed SteamVR for a bit, came back after dinner it was back happening almost constantly. I just don't get it! Gonna try a complete full install of everything and set up for scratch tonight I think. Every time I think I've got it maybe sorted and can live with it, it returns with a vengeance.
I realized the easiest way I might get anyone to understand exactly what issue I'm talking about- it is really, really, really noticeable and reproducible when anything is loading. If nobody else has experienced that, then I am very far off from the performance level others are experiencing. It's super noticeable like for example when The Lab loading screen is up. I'll look at the image and it will be stable if I'm not moving my head, and then if I do it skips around a ton. Once it actually loads (actually, a few seconds before it finishes loading), the effect is lessened substantially.
Budget Cuts' style is awesome for its own usage and probably the most fun there is at present, but the tactical advantage it gives wouldn't be appropriate for every game either. But I totally agree about the "in-game reasons" thing- hopefully most developers of full games will think about this for a bit, as it really helps the experience.
Even so, in Vanishing Realms, I wasn't sure how I'd feel about it, but the basic, simple teleport really seems fine to me as a baseline option. Like you said, it's fluid enough that it doesn't feel unnatural after a bit. I'm fine with it. Though it is somewhat less intuitive, I also like the implementaion in Spell Fighter VR because it keeps the challenge in mind, where you don't really get the rapid movement benefit of teleporting in combat since you have to wait longer to travel further.
What struck me as odd is the very aggressive portion of the userbase I've seen that is adamantly against teleportation for locomotion and advocates in favorite of using traditional (WASDish) movement, especially in Spell Figher VR. A lot of comments like "suck it up, use the REAL controls," "if you get motion sickness the game just isn't for you," or about how immersion-breaking it was. Would love to hear some thoughts on this and if anyone can relate.
Even discounting the desire for devs to reduce potential motion sickness, the notion of immersion or that the touchpad-mapped locomotion was "the right way" struck me as so bizarre. First off, if the concern is really about immersion, I honestly don't see how standing still and sliding around as though you're on impulse-controlled omnidirectional roller skates is particularly immersive in a sword-and-board fantasty universe either. None of the factors that are applied in a traditional FPS or third-person game to make moving feel satisfying are implemented (and wouldn't be good for VR anyway). It feels just as "unnatural" to me as pointing to teleport in that both are metaphors for movement rather than attempts to physically simulate the act of getting around. Maybe in a game where you're actually meant to be standing on a hoverboard or walker vehicle, that style would actually be most appropriate, like H3X was saying with in-game reasons. But as is for Spell Figher I can't understand why we wouldn't just want every possible option for movement to be chosen by the user's preference.
Standing still and covering large distances of virtual terrain isn't where roomscale VR shines regardless of how the movement is conveyed, it's just something that has to happen from a logistical perspective. The immersion factor with roomscale comes when your brain is to some degree convinced that the rectangle of physical space around your physical body in real life is inhabited by the rectangle of virtual space around your virtual body in the game. Actually moving around these spaces is the most "immersive" sensation I have ever experienced in gaming, to an almost disturbing degree considering the current technical limitations. I have tried more than once now to briefly set my controllers down on an object that does not exist.. It's breathtaking. How your virtual body arrives at the rectangle is a secondary concern to me, though I am deeply curious to see what other devs come up with just to provide further options (like the running in place thing).
Gonna try a complete full install of everything and set up for scratch tonight I think. Every time I think I've got it maybe sorted and can live with it, it returns with a vengeance. I realized the easiest way I might get anyone to understand exactly what issue I'm talking about- it is really, really, really noticeable and reproducible when anything is loading. If nobody else has experienced that, then I am very far off from the performance level others are experiencing. It's super noticeable like for example when The Lab loading screen is up. I'll look at the image and it will be stable if I'm not moving my head, and then if I do it skips around a ton. Once it actually loads (actually, a few seconds before it finishes loading), the effect is lessened substantially.
Yeah, it could be a really good fit for games where it does make sense in-lore though, like either some kind of tech device or a magic mirror deal- it could be used as a puzzle mechanic where you actually can't physically access things, but have a "sizeless" body while viewing through the port on the controller.
Budget Cuts' style is awesome for its own usage and probably the most fun there is at present, but the tactical advantage it gives wouldn't be appropriate for every game either. But I totally agree about the "in-game reasons" thing- hopefully most developers of full games will think about this for a bit, as it really helps the experience.
Even so, in Vanishing Realms, I wasn't sure how I'd feel about it, but the basic, simple teleport really seems fine to me as a baseline option. Like you said, it's fluid enough that it doesn't feel unnatural after a bit. I'm fine with it. Though it is somewhat less intuitive, I also like the implementaion in Spell Fighter VR because it keeps the challenge in mind, where you don't really get the rapid movement benefit of teleporting in combat since you have to wait longer to travel further.
What struck me as odd is the very aggressive portion of the userbase I've seen that is adamantly against teleportation for locomotion and advocates in favorite of using traditional (WASDish) movement, especially in Spell Figher VR. A lot of comments like "suck it up, use the REAL controls," "if you get motion sickness the game just isn't for you," or about how immersion-breaking it was. Would love to hear some thoughts on this and if anyone can relate.
Even discounting the desire for devs to reduce potential motion sickness, the notion of immersion or that the touchpad-mapped locomotion was "the right way" struck me as so bizarre. First off, if the concern is really about immersion, I honestly don't see how standing still and sliding around as though you're on impulse-controlled omnidirectional roller skates is particularly immersive in a sword-and-board fantasty universe either. None of the factors that are applied in a traditional FPS or third-person game to make moving feel satisfying are implemented (and wouldn't be good for VR anyway). It feels just as "unnatural" to me as pointing to teleport in that both are metaphors for movement rather than attempts to physically simulate the act of getting around. Maybe in a game where you're actually meant to be standing on a hoverboard or walker vehicle, that style would actually be most appropriate, like H3X was saying with in-game reasons. But as is for Spell Figher I can't understand why we wouldn't just want every possible option for movement to be chosen by the user's preference.
Standing still and covering large distances of virtual terrain isn't where roomscale VR shines regardless of how the movement is conveyed, it's just something that has to happen from a logistical perspective. The immersion factor with roomscale comes when your brain is to some degree convinced that the rectangle of physical space around your physical body in real life is inhabited by the rectangle of virtual space around your virtual body in the game. Actually moving around these spaces is the most "immersive" sensation I have ever experienced in gaming, to an almost disturbing degree considering the current technical limitations. I have tried more than once now to briefly set my controllers down on an object that does not exist.. It's breathtaking. How your virtual body arrives at the rectangle is a secondary concern to me, though I am deeply curious to see what other devs come up with just to provide further options (like the running in place thing).
Zalusithix
Member
Loading issues are not tracking issues. Those are caused by the system being preoccupied by the loading. Traditionally games grind to a responsiveness halt during loading sequences and nobody gives a damn. In VR we're still capable of looking around so it is impacted by the loading far more.
I had my Vive connected with displayport on my 970, and sadly can confirm that it's not working on my 1080. I think the best option is to use a displayport to hdmi adapter. I just want to make sure I get one that A) works, B) does not add latency (like some active ones might) and C) is cheap. If anyone has suggestions or can confirm a certain adapter works, please let me know.
By this do you mean that it happens to everyone in those circumstances?
Yeah, during the loading screens the headset will usually skip.
Astral/H3X
Member
Okay yeah, loading does that for all of us. I just make sure to keep my head still whenever I know it's loading, and give it a second or two before moving around after. Do you have an SSD? Could minimize the time spent experiencing that.Ha I tried a bunch of stuff (there was a biggish SteamVR update, new angles on lighthouses, turned off a bunch of software) and had a few solid hours last where I noticed almost zero tracking skips, tried out a bunch of stuff and really enjoyed it, then closed SteamVR for a bit, came back after dinner it was back happening almost constantly. I just don't get it!
I realized the easiest way I might get anyone to understand exactly what issue I'm talking about- it is really, really, really noticeable and reproducible when anything is loading. If nobody else has experienced that, then I am very far off from the performance level others are experiencing. It's super noticeable like for example when The Lab loading screen is up. I'll look at the image and it will be stable if I'm not moving my head, and then if I do it skips around a ton. Once it actually loads (actually, a few seconds before it finishes loading), the effect is lessened substantially.
In game reasons are definitely the best, but even in Vanishing Realms I love it, just being able to zoom by the landscape as I please, but in combat since it's your weapon arm it limits your mobility to a degree just because you're preoccupied.
I've got a pretty strong VR stomach, and stuff like Windlands is still pretty.... Oof.... at times. I can stand stick movement but it is far less comfortable. Hover Junkers so far is the best compromise in that respect.
I had the DK2, which had a lot of "using a controller" type games (thus why I have a strong VR stomach I guess), and it was an utterly disappointing experience after a while. The only thing it made me want to do is start salivating when the Vive was announced. VR is *definitely* at its strongest point when using roomscale to its advantage. Using a control stick is *more* abstraction from your body to the game, and IMO destroys immersion far more than teleportation. But, IMO.
That being said, I'm not *totally* against coming up with new methods to help give us more variety in the types of games available, but I think that Teleportation is probably the best "default" option, when devs can't come up with a compelling in game reason.
One thing that would be cool? I wanna see devs start to utilize the "rectangle" to create more games that we don't have. I'm imagining something themed off of a space ship repair man in like a mechanical dolly zipping around to different parts of a ship to repair such and such as a puzzle game or point and click type of game. Something that gives you movement without movement, if that makes sense.
Astral/H3X
Member
Okay so, for BattleDome, what I'd really like to see is instead of just the regular default teleportation mechanic, where people just instantly disappear and zip around and you can't see where people are going, instead, make it like an electro hookshot or something. Make it a weapon or function that fires out a projectile that leaves behind a chain that others can see, and that when teleporting to has a visual effect to let players know when a player has moved. As it is, the only way that they can make players vulnerable is by making the distance between cover too large to teleport between, since no one's going to willingly teleport out in the open on their own accord. So like, take the teleportation mechanic, and tweak it to make it unique to your game. Aka so just like Budget Cuts.
As for my issue with the "hold button and run in place" thing, I see two major issues: 1) Fat people don't wanna run. And I mean that sincerely. Your average play times for any game that forces that is going to be miniscule.
2) It brings back gesture motion based controls in a system that's evolved past it. The Vive works so well because it isn't based on gestures, it's not based on movement recognition, it's not guessing a damned thing. It's just saying "Oh, H3X's hand is right here. So his hand is just freaking right here. Done." Running in place loses that because A) now you have to guess how fast they are trying to run based on flailing of arms, B) it's a guesture and is subject to "Did the computer know what they were trying to do", and C) now you're adding a layer of abstraction between player and game, the "run button" (And if you say "well just get rid of the run button", well that won't work because the game will register you adjusting your headset as the run gesture). I just don't like it.
As for my issue with the "hold button and run in place" thing, I see two major issues: 1) Fat people don't wanna run. And I mean that sincerely. Your average play times for any game that forces that is going to be miniscule.
2) It brings back gesture motion based controls in a system that's evolved past it. The Vive works so well because it isn't based on gestures, it's not based on movement recognition, it's not guessing a damned thing. It's just saying "Oh, H3X's hand is right here. So his hand is just freaking right here. Done." Running in place loses that because A) now you have to guess how fast they are trying to run based on flailing of arms, B) it's a guesture and is subject to "Did the computer know what they were trying to do", and C) now you're adding a layer of abstraction between player and game, the "run button" (And if you say "well just get rid of the run button", well that won't work because the game will register you adjusting your headset as the run gesture). I just don't like it.
That is really good to hear. I have never tried a demo Vive or been in one outside of my own setup so it's so tough to compare my experience.
Sure do. And the loads are admirably quick. It was just something I noticed and so I keep moving my head a bunch while loading to "check" if it's happening. But now I know that's common at least so no biggie.
Good point. It feels relatively "balanced" for an early attempt like this.
Same here. I never considered myself has having any sort of motion sickness susceptibility at all (I once played MIrror's Edge upside down to try and see if I'd feel anything!), but Windlands definitely got me- especially for the idiotic minute and a half I tried to play it sitting down. Of course, my skipping issue can't remotely help so I wasn't sure how much of it was the game itself.
This may sound dumb but I actually started to imagine I was on a floating carpet or cloud while sliding around on the ground in Windlands and it actually seemed to help the nausea, like my brain could deal a little better with what was happening and reassure my stomach. I think I will really really enjoy the game so I definitey want to get used ot it.
Well said, I actually agree with that last part now that I think about it. Using a thumbstick on a regular gamepad for locomotion is already metaphorical, and directly translating this to VR certainly doesn't make me feel more immersed.
That's exactly how I feel. At least, for the moment, until a better default presents itself. I do think it's appropriate to provide user options though.
Would be sweet, I can totally imagine the repair dolly idea or like the glass elevator from Willy Wonka. I'm sure the potential for even more motion sickness would come up, but a game set on the deck of a boat/ship, where you sail around but also tend to things on the ship itself, could be awesome. I was also thinking there's potential to have a fairly large house that you could access all of using non-Euclidean perspective tricks. Would have to be a bit of a trippy experience and not a good fit for a traditional action game or anything, but it could all be "contained" within your play area and you'd have to learn to navigate it over time, perhaps only being able to access certain corners of larger rooms if you knew the right path to get there from the other side.
Zalusithix
Member
I actually kind of hope the second gen Vive has a processor on board the HMD to handle the positional calculations and it just sends a position/pose relative to the play area coordinate space instead of sending timing signals down the USB pipe to the computer for processing. This would allow the headset to be positionally aware independent of the computer. Chaperone functions could all be handled locally on the headset, and more importantly loading screens. Have some API to store an image and perhaps even some basic geometry in some RAM on the headset and call a "ShowLoadingScreen" function when you do a load. While the computer spins its wheels, the headset itself can to a full 90Hz (120?) load screen render. When the game is ready, just have another call to return to the video stream proper. Presto, load screens are perfectly smooth and I don't have to close my eyes to ensure no mental strain from the skipping around.
Even a cheap ass basic SoC could manage the sort of stuff needed to accomplish that.
Even a cheap ass basic SoC could manage the sort of stuff needed to accomplish that.
Rec Room update later.
I got to try Rec Room for about a half hour while things were going good, and it is completely surreal and a blast. Seeing other humans animate a virtual character in front of you is really quite something, and highlights the potential of these platforms so much. Charades seems like a great fit too, haha.
I got to try Rec Room for about a half hour while things were going good, and it is completely surreal and a blast. Seeing other humans animate a virtual character in front of you is really quite something, and highlights the potential of these platforms so much. Charades seems like a great fit too, haha.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
I dont find teleporting to be an acceptable default. It feels ridiculous in vanishing realms (which I still greatly enjoyed), and budget cuts feels like it should have a second option besides the teleport gun.
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