Vlaphor
Member
Is this actual horror or just jump scares?
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HTC Vive Launch Thread -- Computer, activate holodeck
- Thread starter taco543
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Is this actual horror or just jump scares?
I've tried both ways. Interleaved on or off, it just changes the way it handles drops. Frankly I don't see how you could go from having issues at 1.0 SS before to having none at 2.0 SS now. The game didn't magically get easier to render with the introduction of async reprojection. If your system couldn't pump out a new frame in time before, it wont be able to now either. Without a new frame, positions of things within the universe don't update, so while the head tracking is always smooth, the world itself updates at a lower rate and moving objects are subject to artifacting.
Edit: Basically this:
Interleaved and async are still just rotational reprojection. This sort of artifact is super annoying to me.
I'm not sure what else to tell you. Check my post history, I'm not one to wildly make claims like this regarding VR (and typically, I've been fairly harsh on the state of performance across the board).
Also, I already admitted that it wasn't for certain if this improved performance was completely attributed to ATW.
All I can say is that before switching to the latest SteamVR beta branch, Raw Data ran atrociously. Using the exact same settings I'm using now, but on the previous client, the in-game framerate was so bad that even my headset would lose tracking accuracy, hopping in and out of the VR loading room. On the new client, switching from ATW to bog standard reprojection caused the same issue. Switching solely to ATW...it's smooth. Like how 60fps looks on a TV. Similar to how PSVR games running at 60fps look (but with little to no double image artifacts).
The image you're showing demonstrating artifacts attributed to ATW, I'm not seeing in-game. No, in fact, when performance drops past a certain threshold, the game drops a frame. Think like turning reprojection off entirely and missing the 90fps target, except it rarely happens here.
That's it. If there's anything you'd like me to share, I'd be absolutely glad to do so tomorrow. Hit me up.
Both. Think along the lines of Sam Raimi's Drag Me To Hell.
From what it seems, no. And thank god for that.
I am going to ran Raw Data for the first time (and with ATW in beta branch). I hate aliasing and flickering - what settings should I use? I have 1080 OC'ed do 2GHz and 6700K OC'ed to 4.5 GHz. I hope I can set some optimal settings and forget about fiddling with them ever again.
I am going to ran Raw Data for the first time (and with ATW in beta branch). I hate aliasing and flickering - what settings should I use? I have 1080 OC'ed do 2GHz and 6700K OC'ed to 4.5 GHz. I hope I can set some optimal settings and forget about fiddling with them ever again.
First time? Leave it default settings, then up the in-game SS slider from whatever it is to 1.4, then play around. Keep upping it until you reach a point where you're satisfied with performance/clarity while in a hectic battle. Also, turn AA off in-game, and turn multires (or multi shading, I can't remember, its the last gfx option) to 2.
Make sure in your SteamVR client, you turn interleaved reprojection off. Having both it and asynchronous reprojection on screwed with performance.
Report back!
Zepp Twofist
Member
From what I could read on reddit it dims the screen and applies a red tint, similar to software like f.lux.
It is also said to be kind of buggy when used with time warp, so some users report not seeing a difference.
It is also said to be kind of buggy when used with time warp, so some users report not seeing a difference.
So when did the black levels of the headset get changed? I'm playing in Big Screen, watching a horror flick, and when the scene goes black... It's actually black. Not that shimmery grey. First time I'm getting to appreciate the OLED contrast of the HMD.
This has been consistent across all my games so far.
Anyone else notice?
This has been consistent across all my games so far.
Anyone else notice?
Everythink is a little darker, so that you find sleep easier after using the Vive at night. Strong brightness confuses your brain and makes it harder to rest at night.
Thanks for the tips. The graphics shimmer like crazy even with SS of 1.4. It's especially visible at the very beginning of the intro sequence, when the lights are off.
Also, I encountred a bug in the intro sequence. When I teleport to test the weapons there is a screen with the E logo blinking and nothing happens. I restarted twice to no avail. I remember playing the intro previously, this was the moment when I was taught how to shoot. I wanted to do the tutorial but it seems I can't. Maybe reinstalling the game will help.
Also, the first time I run the game today, I could not start it because I could not accept the EULA - clicking on the Accept button did nothing. I had to restart.
EDIT: I can also notice the lag in the controls, especially when going to the steamvr menu and comparing latency of ingame controllers with controllers in stramvr. They still lag slightly.
Zalusithix
Member
It sounds like your previous issues were related to the frame drops that interleaved reprojection would have before kicking in. Headset accuracy and such. Since the game would have to finish rendering a frame, you'd get a noticeable hitch in the headset when a frame's render time went over. After that reprojection would kick in and things smooth out. Then reprojection would disable itself again when the frame times dropped to acceptable levels - which would allow the cycle to repeat the next time a frame went over.
With async reprojection they can kill the current frame's rendering when it comes close to going over and then reproject the old one so the visual tracking hitch never happens. This wouldn't stop the artifacting that reprojection can cause with objects moving within the world though. If you're not getting much artifacting at 2.0, then you were probably mostly over 90fps before, and were sensitive to the times when it did drop. That'd put your performance considerably over mine though which would mean Raw Data would have to be using some Pascal features, as the raw power delta between the 1070 and 980ti isn't that much.
The only alternative would be you not being sensitive to the artifacts, but given you say you notice the double image in PSVR reprojection (reprojection artifact), I don't see that as highly likely.
Not a bug. Just poor design.
You have to grab the scrollbar and drag through the whole EULA. Heh.
And yeah, visually the game is really aliased. Even maxed out. I'm guessing this is an issue with UE4 being used and not with the new forward renderer.
Zalusithix
Member
I'm basically convinced at this point that deferred rendering in VR is a bad idea for any action game. Forward rendering with a mix of SS and MSAA is just so superior from an IQ standpoint.
Well there goes the Pascal idea...
No, I tried it, nothing happened, it would not scroll. After restarting the game I could click accept without scrolling.
I don't get it, don't the devs see how horribly it looks (and performs) while developing it? You can't even say that "well, it looks horrible, but at least runs great". No, it looks and runs poorly. VR gaming will not become mainstream when even its "poster child" games are marred by such problems.
I just gave asynchronous reprojection a try in Raw Data, and it seems to work really well.
Previously, my effective limit for actually playing the game was 1.1-1.2 supersampling on a 1080, now I played with 1.5 and it felt as good or better than my previous setting felt before the current SteamVR beta.
Artifacts on lateral motion are there in high-action scenes, but they are a lot less disturbing to me than the previous behavior.
I also finally made a video of the game -- I'll upload it eventually, or at least an excerpt.
Previously, my effective limit for actually playing the game was 1.1-1.2 supersampling on a 1080, now I played with 1.5 and it felt as good or better than my previous setting felt before the current SteamVR beta.
Artifacts on lateral motion are there in high-action scenes, but they are a lot less disturbing to me than the previous behavior.
I also finally made a video of the game -- I'll upload it eventually, or at least an excerpt.
I have a 1080 (running at ~2 GHz) and a 5820k (at 4 GHz). I'm not sure of all my current settings, but I think I have most things at high or ultra, draw distance at low (never saw a difference), AA off and scaling at 1.5 (now).
Zalusithix
Member
First gen VR devs were/are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Realistically most devs have a choice between UE and Unity. Unity had forward rendering from the get go, but well, it's Unity. UE was stuck with deferred rendering, but was a more powerful engine overall. These days UE has a forward rendering fork that's usable, but that wasn't available back when Raw Data began development. Then you have the vendor specific VR functionality from Nvidia/AMD, and future cans of worms like foveated rendering.
These are the early days of VR, and aren't meant to be mainstream. By the time the hardware is ready to go mainstream, this sort of stuff should hopefully be largely a thing of the past.
I'll try this(That is if Raw Data doesnt crash on me like 90% of VR games do now )
Zepp Twofist
Member
I'm looking forward to see if this can reduce some of the horrible frame timing issues with American Truck Sim.
Edit: This was a huge improvement. Game still lags in cities and I can probably tweak settings to get it better, but head tracking does not lag ever making the game 150% more playable in VR.
Edit: This was a huge improvement. Game still lags in cities and I can probably tweak settings to get it better, but head tracking does not lag ever making the game 150% more playable in VR.
qa_engineer
Member
Just played accounting for the first time last night. I loved it. So very weird and full of humor. Definitely has AAA production quality.
Yeah, Accounting is amazing. Particularly given its asking price.
Veritigo_X
Member
Speaking of Accounting/weird humor, when looking through VR games on Steam last night I noticed there's a Rick and Morty game in the works. Dunno, when it was announced or if it has a release date but there's a trailer and you can throw it on a wishlist.
That's a great point about Pascal. In fact, I recall a tweet by the Raw Data developers that mentioned incorporating VR specific optimizations found on Pascal hardware in an upcoming patch.
Keep in mind, it's been a while since I played Raw Data so this in conjunction with ATW may be what's up.
Hmmmm, would Valves implementation of ATW cause different looking artifacts than what I see plainly in PSVR?
Wtf...
Ok, when I get home I'll FRAPS everything and take pics of my setup. I really want to get to the bottom of this, but I promise, I'm not lying.
And then there's this.
Ok, so it can't just be me. There's a very obvious, tangible difference in performance. Of course the Delta being so large on mine could simply be attributed to not having played so long (missed out on patches)
I know it was announced, I didn't know it had a page up on Steam. Wishlisted.
Veritigo_X
Member
Zalusithix
Member
There were patches to improve the performance of Raw Data before the async update, so that could be the case. Of course, in that case disabling async should result in a situation that's not as bad as you remember it.
It seems to me like the current SteamVR beta version actually turns off pixels completely. Two ways to note it:
I think I might actually like the trade-off, but I don't believe it was intentional -- there's nothing in the patch notes about it. Anyone else notice it?
- Perfect blacks.
- Minor color fringes/smearing on fast transitions from black to some other color.
I think I might actually like the trade-off, but I don't believe it was intentional -- there's nothing in the patch notes about it. Anyone else notice it?
DouglasteR
Member
Yep, the "starfield" is gone.
But i can spy a little very dark purple sometimes.
But i prefer this way.
Here's my Raw Data video. Audio is broken, but at least now I have stuff to link to in room-scale / teleportation / locomotion / 360° discussions, which was the main point.
Zalusithix
Member
Unfortunately it reminds me of how direct feeds of VR games are horrible for selling the concept. Without the sense of presence, so much is lost. Teleportation which I'm fine with in practice, becomes jarring to follow as a third party. Meanwhile watching you wag the sword through the large robot's crotch over and over again was more funny than intense.
I mean, the video shows why 360 tracking is important to VR to those familiar with VR and can fill in the blanks, but falls flat for those without that experience.
Sure. It's not about selling anyone on anything, it's about proving the point that teleportation is perfectly suited to fast-paced gameplay by the simple means of demonstration.
For example, I had a discussion here on GAF recently with someone who was actually arguing things as basic as not being able to move backwards with teleportation, and now I can show that this is easily possible in a controlled manner, even during an intense gaming situation.
It is, sadly I haven't found a more effective way to fight those as Saija yet
*Ahem*
http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=221524255
Edit: As a horror genre fan, this is a blessing.
Oh, I somehow missed that, which is surprising given how closely I follow this thread
Anyway, seems like it changed for everyone, I wonder if we will get word from Valve concerning this. I think ideally it should be an option.
Oh, I somehow missed that, which is surprising given how closely I follow this thread
Anyway, seems like it changed for everyone, I wonder if we will get word from Valve concerning this. I think ideally it should be an option.
Agreed. If it's reverted, and not for any valid reason (seen as a booboo, for instance) I'll be the first person to spearhead a discussion to get them to bring it back (as an option).
Haint
Member
Oculus recently implemented the same change with their "Red Tint" fix, resulting in greatly improved blacked levels for increased black smear. Well worth the trade off IMO. As the Vive and Rift seem to share virtually identical displays and calibration profiles, the change most likely came at the design/recommendation of Samsung themselves. Less likely, perhaps Valve just liked Oculus' improvements and reverse engineered them for Vive, or they have both been trying to improve this concurrently.
It's almost entirely the atmosphere and dread (sense of presence is really strong), but has one of the most unexpected jump scares I've ever seen (which most people will probably never trigger).
Walk over to the window nearest the fireplace. There's no reason for the player to go there, so awesome they thought to put that there.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
so, is anyone yet making replacement inserts for the vive that are actually molded to the vive's shape
https://vrcover.com/
I got a few different ones to try out and have stuck with this:
https://vrcover.com/product/htc-vive-foam-replacement-6mm/
It's thin, which allows getting closer to the lens for better FOV.
(just don't get too close or you'll get some unwanted visual effects)
Edit: never mind, not molded enough
Zepp Twofist
Member
I'm worried that this can have had some negative effects. A pixel on my display suddenly didn't turn on and stayed black. Some of the adjacent pixels also flashed a bit every second or so. Rebooting seemed to have fixed it, but I've never had anything like this before.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
these arent molded to the vive shape though causing that creasing which will cause light bleed depending on how your face sits. They also completely lack the glasses gap that the factory covers have, which the main reason I want different covers is for demoing, and making glasses completely incompatible defeats that purpose
I did, big time. It looked horrible in specific circumstances -H3VR, Arizona at night map.
The black outlines in the background smeared like crazy for me. These:
http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net...night_2.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20160923233218
If you think that fringing is not distracting, check it on that map. It reminded me smearing on DK2.
I did not know how to start the game. Pushed the buttons, nothing happened.
qa_engineer
Member
FREE.99!
ShadowSoldier89
Member
honestly I might just stock up on them...wish they made them with a pleather wrap or something around the foam.Well, I assume this is not what you are asking for
Zalusithix
Member
Pleather might not soak up the sweat, but it'll do a damn good job at creating it. For demoing this wouldn't be a big deal, but I can't imagine wanting to wear a pleather lined foam interface for any length of time.
I'm more interested in someone making a full-featured head mount for the Vive and sold it. I know there are how to's for welder mods, but some are just "wear a welder headgear, and strap the Vive over it", and others require 3D printed extra parts.
I've got the headgear already, but I can't seem to get it to work comfortably. I mean, I could pay $100 easy to get a fully functional welding mod.
I've got the headgear already, but I can't seem to get it to work comfortably. I mean, I could pay $100 easy to get a fully functional welding mod.
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