-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
HTC Vive Launch Thread -- Computer, activate holodeck
- Thread starter taco543
- Start date
- Status
Dusktildawn48
Member
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh thanks. I told the guy I'll call back every few days. I'll ask next time I call.FYI the MS store by me (NYC) wasn't taking preorders either. They're taking "reservations" meaning that as soon as it arrives in the store they'll call you in order of who signed up first. They said they can't do preorders becase they don't know exactly when their shipments will arrive. The even send you a confirmation email
Zalusithix
Member
Assuming you have a free DP port on your computer, yes. You can supply the video to the box by HDMI or mDP. Gives users flexibility without having to force the need for adapters.
No, because this is a Vive thread, so meantioning a multiplayer game that is out (in early access) right now on the Vive would seem more natural than one which will only be out next month or one which is for a different platform and months from release. But maybe that's just me!
Sleeping Lesson
Member
Dammit, I bought a miniDP cable so I could still use the HDMI for my projector, and now I realize my 980ti only has regular displayport outs.
I'd be interested to see what they could pull off with dual front facing cameras. Could even mount them on the IPD mechanism internally and have them move along horizontal slots in the front. Couldn't quite compensate for the camera-eye depth mismatch, but it could still make for some pretty convincing AR, especially when combined with Lighthouse controllers being used to help map points in the room. A whole new level of terrifying horror games for someone else to play!
And I bought regular DP cables without realizing the breakout box has a mini DP port X(
Isn't that already a huge chunk of the games which require locomotion? I mean, "Adventure/Exploration" is pretty broad!
"Never" is almost assuredly the wrong word to use in this context. If direct neural interfaces don't happen in my lifetime I'll be disappointed!
Will it? I think this would first require a definition of what a "traditional" gameplay experience is. Is Tetris a traditional gameplay experience? What about arcade, puzzle or grand strategy games?
Or are we taking the new-age AAA view of "traditional" where what we mean is "story-driven cinematic third person"?
(This may sound confrontational, but it's not intended as such. I'm just trying to find out what we are really talking about)
Zalusithix
Member
Well, we all die with some regrets. =P
I just started following VR recently (after I tried the Vive demo and fell in love) so I had not been keeping up with developments. Have there been any games successfully modded to work well with VR. I think I remember seeing Half Life 2 in VR on youtube. If so, have the games been enhanced by it?
SmiteOfHand
Member
Mulling this over and had a few questions. The absolute maximum size I could get is around 5x5 meters (2x2 GSS 
). I would have to move things around and it would definitely not be a permanent thing so somewhere around 2.5-3m would be the norm.
Does installing the lighthouse boxes for such a large area but utilizing a much smaller part of that space the bulk of time come with any disadvantages? Asking another way, if I am going to use 2.5 m 99% of time, is it optimal to install for that size?
After the boxes are mounted how often do you realistically need to directly interact with them? I'd like to mount them essentially to the roof in spots that would not be the easiest to fiddle with regularly.
). I would have to move things around and it would definitely not be a permanent thing so somewhere around 2.5-3m would be the norm.Does installing the lighthouse boxes for such a large area but utilizing a much smaller part of that space the bulk of time come with any disadvantages? Asking another way, if I am going to use 2.5 m 99% of time, is it optimal to install for that size?
After the boxes are mounted how often do you realistically need to directly interact with them? I'd like to mount them essentially to the roof in spots that would not be the easiest to fiddle with regularly.
Feel the futility of your choices in threee-deeee!
Did you call or drop by?FYI the MS store by me (NYC) wasn't taking preorders either. They're taking "reservations" meaning that as soon as it arrives in the store they'll call you in order of who signed up first. They said they can't do preorders becase they don't know exactly when their shipments will arrive. The even send you a confirmation email
I walked into the store. Just be aware that the employees didn't even really know that their store was doing this. They were asking around and went up the chain in order to find out so I suggest telling them that someone you know made a reservation to pick one up. I figured it would work in my favor since most people don't even know about.
You need more positive thinking!
Zalusithix
Member
Mulling this over and had a few questions. The absolute maximum size I could get is around 5x5 meters (2x2 GSS
Does installing the lighthouse boxes for such a large area but utilizing a much smaller part of that space the bulk of time come with any disadvantages? Asking another way, if I am going to use 2.5 m 99% of time, is it optimal to install for that size?
After the boxes are mounted how often do you realistically need to directly interact with them? I'd like to mount them essentially to the roof in spots that would not be the easiest to fiddle with regularly.
The one downside to mounting the lighthouses at extreme distances is potential falloff of the laser at the outer fringes. A 5x5m space would leave over a 7 meter distance between the lighthouses. That's more than what Stress Level Zero is using, so I can't say one way or another how well that will hold up. As for using less area, that would actually be less problematic for the large setup. Using a smaller bounded space (equidistant from the lighthouses) would mean your max distance from any lighthouse is decreased. The only other potential downside is the sync pulse, but that could always be solved by a cable run between the lighthouses.
As for maintenance, you shouldn't have to access them once mounted. They auto start now, so no need for switches or physical access to the power. Outside of one breaking, I don't see why you'd ever need to touch one.
I believe the biggest challenge will be to re-invent what it means to be "AAA" or even a "game". I anticipate a lot of resistance from both casuals and hardcore gamers in regards to the type of experience VR can bring.
How do you translate Madden, Uncharted, Bloodborne, etc. into VR ? Do we even have to duplicate those experiences and make them "VR-friendly" ? If so, can it be done without feeling gimmicky ?
If not, can we create new game genres that are as engaging and long lasting as the current "creme de la creme" ?
There's a lot of questions right now and not a lot of answers. It's very exciting (and scary if you're investing a lot of money as a Dev).
CarbonFire
Member
Ok, so "traditional" wasn't clear enough of a definition. AAA first or third person games focused mainly on combat, either linear and more story-driven or open-world. Games that most of the general public thinks of when talking about "popular big name franchises" especially in the console space.
Sure VR works great for genres where the viewport and "verbs" match up naturally. Puzzle games and Strategy games are completely natural fits, and I think they will thrive on these new platforms. But people want to walk / run around like they do in real life, and so far none of the VR solutions have really solved this issue. I think the Hover Junkers one-hand controls movement paradigm might have some merit, but I don't know how much nausea it will cause in the general population, or if it can be used in a non-cockpit scenario.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
I think the hope, at least for me, is that VR's hardcore experiences sit as separate experiences from traditional games. I really hope we can still get story driven games in VR, but I dont think we should be trying to capture Uncharted in VR
In our office the windows are causing problems.
It's good to live by the principles of Ikaruga
I still have no idea what that game is going on about half the time
Hmm... I have some large framed pictures and my TV is an older plasma that is quite shinny. I hope that doesnt cause issues when Im setup in the living room.
A PunchOut in VR would be a good start. I want arcade games, VR is a Renaissance for my favorite genre.
I think the way to look at it is that VR is just a totally new category. When we switched from sprites to polygons, and eventually to full 3D games we did not abandon the old way of playing or making games. VR should be the same. You'll still have your TV/monitor experiences in the same way you had you 2D games and now you'll have VR as well to add to the mix. some traditional genres may work for both (Shooters maybe) and others may not. We'll see but no one said that the game types we have now have to be converted to VR. VR is so different that just doing simple things like interacting with the environment is fun so there is a lot of room for experimentation and innovation. Originally video games where very simple experiences. You had stuff like pong and Asteroids. Consider today's VR games the Pongs and Asteroids of VR. They will significantly evolve over time but that didn't make those games any less awesome when they originally released.
Sure, I can agree with all of that.
The thing is, "ultimate" contemporary on-screen games (in terms of complexity and scope) like The Witcher 3 didn't suddenly appear out of thin air. They are the culmination of many decades of experience creating on-screen games with traditional (indirect) controls.
We're merely at the start of a long road for the development of both VR software and hardware, and I think considering how early we are in that we are off to an amazing start.
He, I love that part. I don't know what it means, but it feels right.It's good to live by the principles of Ikaruga
I still have no idea what that game is going on about half the time
Same here. I never thought of that.
What sort of problems? The tracking is supposedly able to handle large reflective surfaces with the latest firmware. If it's something like the IR sync signal being drowned out by sunlight then that could be fixed by using the sync cable
SmiteOfHand
Member
Thanks, sounds like I'd want to do a bit of experimenting before sinking any screws. What exactly does the cable do, technically? Making sure they are synced, sure, but I'd like to dig into the nitty-gritty some. Feel free to point me to some reading materials if needs be.
Oh man these Rock Paper Shotgun impressions are infuriating. Not a surprise though since if you follow him on Twitter you knew this was coming for a long time. Just wish he actually gave it a real shot. The same way he did for PC games for years. Set everything up properly (controller firmware, play games made for your space etc.) Not to mention he was using a dev unit.
Chairmanchuck
Member
If you already made up your mind, you wont change it.
John Walker hated on VR since the beginning.
I played couple of hours with it. This thing is amazing. I tried
* The Lab (parts of it for now) and it's amazing. I said "wow" out loud 3 or 4 times
* Space Pirate Trainer (which is addictive and interestingly maybe the one that got me involved the most until now. That feeling when you dodge or deflect a laser at the last moment and then you blast the damn robot/spaceship is unbelievable. I need more training, I barely got over 3000 points
* Audioshield is fun as expected, but I didn't play it too much as I need to get my music from wherever I hid it since Spotify exist.
* Bowslinger looks nice and the bow feels really nice and the vibration of the shot and tension feel good. I like it more than the archery game in The Lab in terms of shooting the bow. I don't know about the depth, because I played for 15 minutes before moving to something else.
* Tilt Brush was unexpected. I knew what it was, but experience it there around you in VR, the feeling can't be described. I had a stupid grin on my face te whoole time.
I can't mount the lighthouses on the diagonal of my playing space and I tried different combinations and most of them worked well. I end up with them put on the sides, like on a L, one in the middle of the long side and the other almost at the end of the short side and the tracking works really well. The on at the end of the short side it's not even above my head, but rather at mid height.
* The Lab (parts of it for now) and it's amazing. I said "wow" out loud 3 or 4 times
* Space Pirate Trainer (which is addictive and interestingly maybe the one that got me involved the most until now. That feeling when you dodge or deflect a laser at the last moment and then you blast the damn robot/spaceship is unbelievable. I need more training, I barely got over 3000 points
* Audioshield is fun as expected, but I didn't play it too much as I need to get my music from wherever I hid it since Spotify exist.
* Bowslinger looks nice and the bow feels really nice and the vibration of the shot and tension feel good. I like it more than the archery game in The Lab in terms of shooting the bow. I don't know about the depth, because I played for 15 minutes before moving to something else.
* Tilt Brush was unexpected. I knew what it was, but experience it there around you in VR, the feeling can't be described. I had a stupid grin on my face te whoole time.
I can't mount the lighthouses on the diagonal of my playing space and I tried different combinations and most of them worked well. I end up with them put on the sides, like on a L, one in the middle of the long side and the other almost at the end of the short side and the tracking works really well. The on at the end of the short side it's not even above my head, but rather at mid height.
DavionStriker
Member
FYI the MS store by me (NYC) wasn't taking preorders either. They're taking "reservations" meaning that as soon as it arrives in the store they'll call you in order of who signed up first. They said they can't do preorders becase they don't know exactly when their shipments will arrive. The even send you a confirmation email
I just called my local MS store and was able to put in a reservation. They were extremely honest with saying that they have no idea if or when they will get it.
Its been around 5 minutes with no email. Hopefully it comes soon.
Infuriating why? I'm dying to play it, but I think most of his grievances are pretty genuine and seem like design flaws.
metareferential
Member
Someone has to write bad reviews, since everyone else is happy about it.
So low by the standards of RPS.
Because some of the reasoning it's dumb (and old).
Alright, thanks. Yeah, I planned on telling them that, too. I'll probably try after work today sometime.
Astral/H3X
Member
It's so ridiculous to do the thing we've been dreaming of doing for 20 years! Jeez, why would anyone want that!?
He's outright dismissing all of VR for 20 years due to his very specific home scenario and not understanding that each game has different space requirements, plus issues related to a dev unit. Some of these issues were important for people to recognize and literally every review mentions them. He piles uses these as examples for why VR will not succeed basically forever and then piles on the sort of gripes PC gaming (which his website is devoted to) has had since the beginning of time. All to dismiss VR entirely.
Whatever. I know I sound like a pissed off nerd. Just tough not to when you experience this stuff the way it was intended. Especially tough when you know someone hasn't played the games that matter. It's like if someone bought a PC and just downloaded all the random shit on Steam without going to any outside sources for curation. Funny enough he mentions there was no curation by Valve which may have been true before launch, but that huge, "VR Is Here", banner on Steam links only the stuff worth checking out.
RPS turned to shit years ago, so I'm not surprised.
(No, I'm not saying that because of the VR impressions I didn't even read. Check my post history on the topic if you want)
Lord Griegous
Member
So if I order now and chose Paypal I will not be charged until it ships, right?
Thanks
Thanks
Zalusithix
Member
That's all it does: sync the two lighthouses so the laser casts are properly spaced/timed. Normally this happens via an omnidirectional flash of IR light. In situations where the lighthouses can't see each-other's flashes properly, the cable allows them to communicate. I imagine it's just a simple voltage shift across the leads. Details of the lighthouse can be found here.
Relevant timing part:
Edit:
I haven't read any of the article, but I've gone from checking RPS multiple times a day to not having gone there outside of direct links for at least a couple of years now.
metareferential
Member
All of the article is like that.
"VR is hot steaming shit; but just because it's for rich people that live in big palaces. And by the way, I say this because I love it (not)".
piratepwnsninja
Member
I think Paypal is charged immediately when you order.
ninjaboyjohn
Member
I have a Vive Pre devkit in my living room, and my 2012-era plasma doesn't seem to interfere with tracking, but I have a neo geo arcade machine that does. Discovered that when things would wig out when I was in that corner of the room. I toss a blanket over the machine when it's VR time and everything else works fine.
TLDR; experiment with your setup and you should find a way that works. I wouldn't try a Vive in a hall of mirrors with un-curtained windows, but a tv or monitor probably won't be an issue.
Paypal orders are charged up front.
Lord Griegous
Member
OK, thanks for the heads up. I will use a card then. I have an Oculus order but seeing how both companies are handling the shipping stuff, I decided to order this as well and keep the one that ships first.
Got my Vive a few hours ago, went through setup, and played a bit of the lab, some Job Simulator, a bit of Space Pirates a tiny bit of tilt brush and the budget cuts demo. Some thoughts:
- The setup is remarkably easy for something with so many parts in the box
- Seriously, though, there's a ton in that box. I filled a (small office) trash can with all the little bags and ties they include
- Had some strange audio issues, turns out you might need to specifically tell SteamVR to output to the Vive, then restart SteamVR
- Ended up with some minor sync issues, which really hurt things. I set up the sync cable in hopes that doing so would improve things. So far, it's better
- Not sure if the sync stuff is because the base stations are further apart than they recommend (only 6 meter, so that shouldn't be too far), or if it's because of windows and my TV causing issues
- Overall the headset is nice. I have a Rift too, so I can do a little bit of a comparison
- I think the Rift is more comfortable. The cabling on the Vive makes it harder to adjust the top strap, it sits weirdly high on my head, and I find it pushes on my face more than the Rift
- From an optics standpoint, it seems roughly similar. I specifically looked for FOV stuff, and other than the FOV feeling a bit rounder than the Rift, there's not much difference. I couldn't tell any difference in terms of lighting. I'd have to try both more to really nail down any differences, but they seem minor
- The Vive definitely has the ghosting issue that the Rift does with white text on a black background. Just like the Rift, it's not really a problem in games. It looks different on the Vive, more like circular ghosting radiating out from the center, but it's there. Again, I don't think it's a big issue
- The room scale stuff is incredibly cool. The Lab, budget cuts and Job simulator were the best experiences so far
- OTOH, I think room scale stuff is going to be incredibly niche. I had to pretty much clean out my office for it. I think it's worth it, but it's not a small sacrifice
- Prices are way out of whack. I'm glad you get Job simulator, The Lab, Tilt Brush and Fantastic Contraption free
- Status