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[GuitarAtomik]

I was thinking about locomotion in VR after playing a bunch of Quantum Break and Hyper Light Drifter and I got this idea of a game that could contextualize the teleportation ala Budget Cuts. Basically it would be an action game where you would have super speed or time dilation powers that let you slow down time. You could move and dodge in the room scale space you have, but could also dash (ie teleport). Activating dash would slow down time first while you "focus" to give you enough time to pick your dash spot, and would stay slow for a couple of seconds after you dash ala Quantum Break to give you enough time to orient yourself. The "teleport" would have the zoom effect that some developers have demonstrated before to give you the sense of speed instead of a straight blink or fade to black. If the game had melee sword combat, you could combine that for attacks (so either dashing by enemies with the sword out to the side to slice, or dashing directly in to the enemy with sword pointed forward for a dash stab). Then you could do all kinds of other stuff with slow time like grabbing rockets out of the air and slicing bullets or doing Metal Gear Rising style slice moves. I think that'd be fun.

 

[Cartman86]

I love this part:



bwahaha, sure you were.

Yeah I mean it's not like my setup went flawlessly yesterday. I had USB length issues with the external camera, and had to do firmware updates as my controller was doing weird stuff too. This happened in the middle of the tutorial too, but Steam VR tells you which is more than I would have expected 10 years ago. It probably took 2 hours (an hour more than the initial setup) but it wasn't anymore of a nightmare than building a new PC and getting a POST on first boot. In fact it's nowhere close to that.

 

[Mikeside]

Oh man these Rock Paper Shotgun impressions are infuriating. Not a surprise though since if you follow him on Twitter you knew this was coming for a long time. Just wish he actually gave it a real shot. The same way he did for PC games for years. Set everything up properly (controller firmware, play games made for your space etc.) Not to mention he was using a dev unit.

It's John Walker, of course it's negative.
He's a joyless, shit writer



Actually that's not fair, he's an ok writer, but he sure is negative and a bit of an arse

 

[spekkeh]

Because some of the reasoning it's dumb (and old).

I dunno, can't fault thinking a huge wire you can't see and are prone to trip over tie you to something expensive to be pretty ridiculous. Don't know what's dumb about that position.

(I also think a consumer electronics setup of two hours is ridiculous)

 

[p2535748]

I love this part:



bwahaha, sure you were.

I think he's way off on some of the stuff, but I will say that the one thing that caused me problems initially was the tracing of the room, which he had trouble with too. It just kept losing tracking in the middle of it, often with no indication why it would. Once I got it all traced out, things have been better (generally), but that was annoying.

Otherwise, though, it really doesn't sound like he gave it much of a chance.

 

[Chairmanchuck]

I think he's way off on some of the stuff, but I will say that the one thing that caused me problems initially was the tracing of the room, which he had trouble with too. It just kept losing tracking in the middle of it, often with no indication why it would. Once I got it all traced out, things have been better (generally), but that was annoying.

Otherwise, though, it really doesn't sound like he gave it much of a chance.

Its John Walker. He hated VR since the first Oculus DK IIRC:

Editorial: Why VR Is Going To Be An Enormous Flop

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/06/17/editorial-why-vr-is-going-to-be-an-enormous-flop/

 

[metareferential]

I dunno, can't fault thinking a huge wire you can't see and are prone to trip over tie you to something expensive to be pretty ridiculous. Don't know what's dumb about that position.

Read the rest.

It makes everything he can so that any reader with a little knowledge of the subject will think "he's dumb".

I know he's doing it on purpose. Still, some of the complaints are rather silly.

"lighthouses are light and the cables are heavy, they fall down!!!!". They don't even need cables (and when they do, the cable is not heavy enough to drag down the units).

It's a poorly thought article. Even if it's purposely so.

 

[Barryman]

Guys is TheBlu actually worth $10? I was going to play it as my first Vive experience, but it seems like the kind of thing I'll only ever play once.

In my humble (and 100% biased) opinion, it's worth it

 

[Raticus79]

RPS turned to shit years ago, so I'm not surprised.
(No, I'm not saying that because of the VR impressions I didn't even read. Check my post history on the topic if you want)

Yeah, they really go with the negative popular view on things. Same thing happened for Star Citizen and they even have a weird grudge against Diablo 3.

I love this part:

"I have had such a miserable time, despite being genuinely excited to play with this new toy."

bwahaha, sure you were.

Its John Walker. He hated VR since the first Oculus DK IIRC:

Editorial: Why VR Is Going To Be An Enormous Flop

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/06/17/editorial-why-vr-is-going-to-be-an-enormous-flop/

Yup, just more setup to resonate with anti-VR sentiment. He even works in the "vr is a toy!" association in that sentence.

Paraphrase "I was so ready to try it out and I really gave it my best shot, and I can speak with authority on this as part of the target audience. I took a good honest look at it and I'm happy to announce that I support all the bad things you've heard about VR and have a few more!"

Valid criticisms, it's just annoying within the larger pattern of behaviour.

 

[p2535748]

I dunno, can't fault thinking a huge wire you can't see and are prone to trip over tie you to something expensive to be pretty ridiculous. Don't know what's dumb about that position.

(I also think a consumer electronics setup of two hours is ridiculous)

The mounting is the real variable here. I had poles in the corners setup, and just screwed the base stations in, and the setup took maybe 40 minutes. If I had to mount into the wall, 2 hours seems more reasonable.

And yeah, the setup requirements for this are ridiculous for the average person, they just are. That doesn't make it less cool for those willing to go through all of that, but it probably limits it's adoption.

 

[SmiteOfHand]

Yeah I mean it's not like my setup went flawlessly yesterday. I had USB length issues with the external camera, and had to do firmware updates as my controller was doing weird stuff too. This happened in the middle of the tutorial too, but Steam VR tells you which is more than I would have expected 10 years ago. It probably took 2 hours (an hour more than the initial setup) but it wasn't anymore of a nightmare than building a new PC and getting a POST on first boot. In fact it's nowhere close to that.

His write up reads like a person shouting and showing impatience at every issue declaring "see, I am right!" and not as a person trying to deliver healthy skepticism and criticism on an emerging piece of technology.

Believe me, I am looking for reasons not to drop $800 here, I want to read of bad experiences. All I am getting from his write up is old man yells at cloud.


I mean, his opening statement from the Oculus DK says it all. This is not reasonable skepticism this is "I want this to fail."

VR isn’t going to succeed. It doesn’t matter how many companies jump in, how technically competent their VR goggles might be, nor even if they can figure out a way that wearing them doesn’t make your face melt off and slide down your neck – VR gaming will never be more than a niche interest, and a lot of money is about to get wasted.

 

[The Elite]

How can someone hate VR?

It's fucking Virtual Reality.

This shit has been awesome before it even existed.

Did anyone else watch VR5?

 

[p2535748]

Its John Walker. He hated VR since the first Oculus DK IIRC:

Editorial: Why VR Is Going To Be An Enormous Flop

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/06/17/editorial-why-vr-is-going-to-be-an-enormous-flop/

Yeah, I realize that, hence my last statement, I just wanted to say that one part struck me as true. Not much else, though (I lost tracking a few times, but it seems better since hooking up via the cable).

 

[b0bbyJ03]

Got my Vive a few hours ago, went through setup, and played a bit of the lab, some Job Simulator, a bit of Space Pirates a tiny bit of tilt brush and the budget cuts demo. Some thoughts:

• The setup is remarkably easy for something with so many parts in the box
• Seriously, though, there's a ton in that box. I filled a (small office) trash can with all the little bags and ties they include
• Had some strange audio issues, turns out you might need to specifically tell SteamVR to output to the Vive, then restart SteamVR
• Ended up with some minor sync issues, which really hurt things. I set up the sync cable in hopes that doing so would improve things. So far, it's better
• Not sure if the sync stuff is because the base stations are further apart than they recommend (only 6 meter, so that shouldn't be too far), or if it's because of windows and my TV causing issues
• Overall the headset is nice. I have a Rift too, so I can do a little bit of a comparison
• I think the Rift is more comfortable. The cabling on the Vive makes it harder to adjust the top strap, it sits weirdly high on my head, and I find it pushes on my face more than the Rift
• From an optics standpoint, it seems roughly similar. I specifically looked for FOV stuff, and other than the FOV feeling a bit rounder than the Rift, there's not much difference. I couldn't tell any difference in terms of lighting. I'd have to try both more to really nail down any differences, but they seem minor
• The Vive definitely has the ghosting issue that the Rift does with white text on a black background. Just like the Rift, it's not really a problem in games. It looks different on the Vive, more like circular ghosting radiating out from the center, but it's there. Again, I don't think it's a big issue
• The room scale stuff is incredibly cool. The Lab, budget cuts and Job simulator were the best experiences so far
• OTOH, I think room scale stuff is going to be incredibly niche. I had to pretty much clean out my office for it. I think it's worth it, but it's not a small sacrifice
• Prices are way out of whack. I'm glad you get Job simulator, The Lab, Tilt Brush and Fantastic Contraption free

Thanks for the impressions. Do you feel that the differences in comfort between the two headsets is significant? Does it make one worth owning over the other.

 

[cakefoo]

Its John Walker. He hated VR since the first Oculus DK IIRC:

Editorial: Why VR Is Going To Be An Enormous Flop

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/06/17/editorial-why-vr-is-going-to-be-an-enormous-flop/

Confirmed luddite.

 

[888]

So if I order now and chose Paypal I will not be charged until it ships, right?

Thanks

I was charged right away today using Paypal.

 

[HoneyBunch360]

Vive just arrived! I'm in Ontario, shipped from the US to here in 1 day. Super pumped to get off work today.

Did you ever receive a shipping notification?

I'm in Alberta and I've heard nothing so far.

Anyways congrats!

 

[Sleeping Lesson]

And I bought regular DP cables without realizing the breakout box has a mini DP port X(

Our cables combined, we have TWO usable cables!

In my humble (and 100% biased) opinion, it's worth it

Bah, fine I'll buy it!

 

[GRIMREEFZ]

my vive order was cancelled. no explanation. cancelled. after the stream on GB yesterday I guess im okay with that. for now.

 

[Permanently A]

I've only been following VR casually, besides being made by different companies what is the difference between Vive and Rift?

 

[taco543]

I've only been following VR casually, besides being made by different companies what is the difference between Vive and Rift?

Room scale is the biggest difference.

 

[888]

So anyone who has it. How is the following.

Resolution
Aliasing
FOV both Horizontal and Vertical

 

[Zalusithix]

I've only been following VR casually, besides being made by different companies what is the difference between Vive and Rift?

Different tracking mechanisms (inside-out vs outside-in). One has room scale support and tracked controllers out of the box, one comes with an xbox one controller. Various differences in fit and optics.

Edit:

So anyone who has it. How is the following.

Resolution
Aliasing
FOV both Horizontal and Vertical

We already have objective FoV measurements. What more do you want? Aliasing is more of rendering thing, not hardware. That only leaves resolution.

 

[Durante]

I mean, his opening statement from the Oculus DK says it all. This is not reasonable skepticism this is "I want this to fail."

Sounds like the ideal guy to write a VR review.
(It does remind me of that - I think it was IGN - Football Manager review by someone who mostly complained that you don't get to play)

 

[Alexlf]

Did you ever receive a shipping notification?

I'm in Alberta and I've heard nothing so far.

Anyways congrats!

I received my shipping info this morning and it had already passed by the border. Also, some people are getting their Vives before a tracking number. So yours might still be shipping even if you don't have one.

 

[bj00rn_]

Oh man these Rock Paper Shotgun impressions are infuriating. Not a surprise though since if you follow him on Twitter you knew this was coming for a long time. Just wish he actually gave it a real shot. The same way he did for PC games for years. Set everything up properly (controller firmware, play games made for your space etc.) Not to mention he was using a dev unit.

Walker has always been a twat, and RPS went to shite a while ago (unfortunately, because it used to be one of the few places for good PC related stuff).

 

[Compsiox]

So anyone who has it. How is the following.

Resolution
Aliasing
FOV both Horizontal and Vertical

FOV is great but keep your expectations in check
SDE is not too noticeable if you don't think about it.
Things in the distance shimmer

 

[Mikeside]

Walker has always been a twat, and RPS went to shite a while ago (unfortunately, because it used to be one of the few places for good PC related stuff).

Other writers at rps are still worth reading, but yeah, John Walker sucks

 

[p2535748]

Thanks for the impressions. Do you feel that the differences in comfort between the two headsets is significant? Does it make one worth owning over the other.

No, it's not to that level. Both are more comfortable than the DK1 or 2, it's just that the Rift is, IMO, slightly more comfortable.

The room scale stuff is a much bigger differentiator. If you think there's a chance that you'll be able to use that, it opens up entire new possibilities.

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

Sounds like the ideal guy to write a VR review.
(It does remind me of that - I think it was IGN - Football Manager review by someone who mostly complained that you don't get to play)

yea I remember that review, and there was also the polygon bayonetta review. People that dont enjoy things at a conceptual level shouldn't be reviewing them. You are doing no one a service

 

[Arulan]

I'm pacing in front of a window. Send help.

As for that RPS review, I've noticed that there really are people that want VR to fail. I can't speak to the author's possible bias however, as the only thing I occasionally read on RPS are Richard Cobbett's RPG articles. Anyways, the hostility against VR is bewildering.

 

[888]

Different tracking mechanisms (inside-out vs outside-in). One has room scale support and tracked controllers out of the box, one comes with an xbox one controller. Various differences in fit and optics.

Edit:

We already have objective FoV measurements. What more do you want? Aliasing is more of rendering thing, not hardware. That only leaves resolution.

I am more asking if the FOV, maybe I am asking wrong. How natural does the edge of the image on the sides and top feel. I tried the DK1 a while back and it felt weird looking towards the edges.

 

[Zalusithix]

I am more asking if the FOV, maybe I am asking wrong. How natural does the edge of the image on the sides and top feel. I tried the DK1 a while back and it felt weird looking towards the edges.

If by weird you mean blurry, as far as I'm aware that should still be the case - albeit not to the same degree.

 

[OmarTheHippo]

Its John Walker. He hated VR since the first Oculus DK IIRC:

Editorial: Why VR Is Going To Be An Enormous Flop

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/06/17/editorial-why-vr-is-going-to-be-an-enormous-flop/

I love VR, pre-ordered the Vive, and will be apartment shopping based on my holodeck room requirements

BUT

That article isn't wrong. Most of his points are valid. It essentially boils down to "unless current gen VR creates a fundamentally new and sustainable gameplay experience, it will fail due to cost of entry and lack of large developer investment". Which is probably true. And while I hope it doesn't happen, I can understand the point of view and justification for why it might

All of us VR enthusiasts are hoping that the "wow" immersion and room-scale experience will 100% be enough of a fundamental change in gameplay to propel VR to success. But the sustainability part we can't know yet. We've already seen cracks in every review, especially the Rift, of VR gameplay failing to elevate above novelty. We all are optimistic that a marketplace of demos will turn into a marketplace of games, but people worrying that won't happen is a legit fear

PCGames N had a similar article (better and less sensational imo, but same point). The arguments for VR failure aren't that crazy. Which is what makes them so scary. John Walker saying he can't imagine going back to replay Job Simulator or The Lab might sound like the dismissive ramblings of a VR hater, but when I read that I hear a meek voice in my head saying "I hope I don't end up feeling the same way..."

VR proponents are optimists; VR skeptics are probably more realistic than pessimistic =/

 

[mrklaw]

Oh man these Rock Paper Shotgun impressions are infuriating. Not a surprise though since if you follow him on Twitter you knew this was coming for a long time. Just wish he actually gave it a real shot. The same way he did for PC games for years. Set everything up properly (controller firmware, play games made for your space etc.) Not to mention he was using a dev unit.

Not even finishing that. The article opens dismissively and continues in a way as though to justify the authors original disdain.

I don't understand how anyone that is a PC gaming enthusiast can be so hung up on whether big publishers will throw hundreds of millions at AAA VR games. Yet PC games have continuously evolved on experimenting and not being tied down by convention - allowing new ideas to flourish and others to follow.

 

[Krejlooc]

 

[Mihos]

showoff....

 

[kaskade]

I was charged right away today using Paypal.

Yeah, same here. Hopefully this doesn't mess with any of the payment stuff since the charge went through.

 

[Evo X]

Illinois. Still no email or Fedex notification.

I'm starting to lose hope that I will get this thing even though I pre-ordered 5 minutes in.

 

[Sleeping Lesson]

Got my Vive today too! Set it up during my lunch and rearrange the living room. This is space.

 

[SmiteOfHand]

Sounds like the ideal guy to write a VR review.
(It does remind me of that - I think it was IGN - Football Manager review by someone who mostly complained that you don't get to play)

They don't even LOOK like lighthouses. They are black cubes. I bet there isn't even a tiny old bearded man living in them. This is some bullshit.

 

[Krejlooc]

So I have my vive in hand

And I still havent been charged by htc

 

[libertytoast]

Illinois. Still no email or Fedex notification.

I'm starting to lose hope that I will get this thing even though I pre-ordered 5 minutes in.

Louisiana, same pre-order time, same boat. At this point I'd be happy to have it by Friday, to enjoy over the weekend. Just give me some news. Any update would be appreciated.

 

[Sleeping Lesson]

So I have my vive in hand

And I still havent been charged by htc

Did you have the same experience as I, where finally holding a Vive controller felt super surreal? I've seen these things in videos and pictures for so long, it's bizarre having them.

 

[CarbonFire]

Got my Vive today too! Set it up during my lunch and rearrange the living room. This is space.

Your Hover Junker ship is gonna be huuuuuuge
#jealous

 

[Evo X]

Hundreds of geniuses spent thousands of hours and millions of dollars developing consumer VR these past few years and the biggest hurdle they are facing is shipping the fucking thing. I cannot comprehend HOW 2 multi-billion dollar corporations fuck up something so simple in 2016. Charge a card and ship a box. That's it.

 

[botherer]

"lighthouses are light and the cables are heavy, they fall down!!!!". They don't even need cables (and when they do, the cable is not heavy enough to drag down the units).

Um, are you able to transfer electricity into them using some sort of mind rays? Or, gosh, could you be the one to be wildly inaccurate in your claims?!?!?!

Listen all you fruitcakes - the piece makes it ABUNDANTLY clear that this was my personal, emotional reaction to fighting with the fucking thing to get it to work, and failing.

I love the arguments that go, "He clearly wanted to hate it from the start. Here, look where he says he was looking forward to using it - that's proof because I've decided it's a lie!" Because wow, it must actually hurt to have your brain be able to reach this conclusion.

I don't "hate" VR. Because I'm not a lunatic. I have written why I believe the niche interest (a niche in which I exist) will never reach the mainstream success necessary for it to have any long-term impact on gaming. I've made those arguments well enough that people here have only managed to call me names (wah wah, how will I get through the nights?) rather than counter them. I was very much looking forward to enjoying my VR playing today, with plans to review The Lab, and excited to see the full version of theBlu and try out the many VR titles that had appeared on Steam. Except, I couldn't, so I wrote about why.

But I'm sure all your demented conspiracy reasons are far more likely.

 

[Krejlooc]

Did you have the same experience as I, where finally holding a Vive controller felt super surreal? I've seen these things in videos and pictures for so long, it's bizarre having them.

This isnt my first time using the vive

 

[Sleeping Lesson]

Your Hover Junker ship is gonna be huuuuuuge
#jealous

Yep! Have it installed and ready for tonight.

This isnt my first time using the vive

Then you have been robbed of the magic!

 

[marc^o^]

John Walker saying he can't imagine going back to replay Job Simulator or The Lab might sound like the dismissive ramblings of a VR hater, but when I read that I hear a meek voice in my head saying "I hope I don't end up feeling the same way..."

VR proponents are optimists; VR skeptics are probably more realistic than pessimistic =/

To be fair I read twice as much impressions saying it's hard to go back to monitor gaming now they tasted VR.