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HTC Vive Launch Thread -- Computer, activate holodeck

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Zalusithix

Zalusithix

Member
E-flux said:
That is why i think that with feet tracking that last 10% could be eliminated, and with the virtual body the problem is not as severe as controller not functioning properly, since it's not that off putting when your body is in a 20 to 40 degree angle instead of facing forward, which it will do as soon as you take a step.
Click to expand...

Ignoring the whole argument about IK being good enough since that's somewhat unwinnable, lets flip this around. I've outlined the benefits of accurate torso tracking and some of the complications foot tracking will have to deal with. What, on the other hand, do you really gain by having foot tracking? The amount of times we kick things on a daily basis are extremely limited. Outside of supporting our bodies and moving us around, our feet get relatively little use. There's a couple of sports that use them, and extreme things like kicking somebody in combat. I can't even remember the last time I used my feet to interact with the world except to nudge something out of the way (a case I don't have to worry about in VR).

Then there's the fact that kicking itself has risks in VR. The legs have a larger extension than our arms, are harder to stop once in motion, and are crucial to maintaining our balance. Combine this with roomscale and you're upping the chance that you're going to clip something in the real world, potentially damaging it, and possibly losing your balance and falling. We already have people smacking controllers against walls etc.

I don't see the point in the first additional tracking to VR being the option that needs 2 independently tracked points, has positional sync issues between VR and RL, is of limited practical use, increases the hazard rate / legal liability, and does nothing to aide the wireless conundrum.
 
E

E-flux

Member
Zalusithix said:
Ignoring the whole argument about IK being good enough since that's somewhat unwinnable, lets flip this around. I've outlined the benefits of accurate torso tracking and some of the complications foot tracking will have to deal with. What, on the other hand, do you really gain by having foot tracking? The amount of times we kick things on a daily basis are extremely limited. Outside of supporting our bodies and moving us around, our feet get relatively little use. There's a couple of sports that use them, and extreme things like kicking somebody in combat. I can't even remember the last time I used my feet to interact with the world except to nudge something out of the way (a case I don't have to worry about in VR).

Then there's the fact that kicking itself has risks in VR. The legs have a larger extension than our arms, are harder to stop once in motion, and are crucial to maintaining our balance. Combine this with roomscale and you're upping the chance that you're going to clip something in the real world, potentially damaging it, and possibly losing your balance and falling. We already have people smacking controllers against walls etc.

I don't see the point in the first additional tracking to VR being the option that needs 2 independently tracked points, has positional sync issues between VR and RL, is of limited practical use, increases the hazard rate / legal liability, and does nothing to aide the wireless conundrum.
Click to expand...

I fully agree that it would be much more dangerous both for the equipment and you if feet tracking would be added, but i would rather have all of my extremities tracked because i like to move around a lot and adding feet tracking might give us some new type of games where you get to use your whole body in a novel way. We could be finally playing twister online, imagine that. Regardless of which direction vr goes, i'm most likely going to be happy with it.
 
W

Wowfunhappy

Member
Zalusithix said:
What, on the other hand, do you really gain by having foot tracking? The amount of times we kick things on a daily basis are extremely limited. Outside of supporting our bodies and moving us around, our feet get relatively little use. There's a couple of sports that use them, and extreme things like kicking somebody in combat. I can't even remember the last time I used my feet to interact with the world except to nudge something out of the way (a case I don't have to worry about in VR).
Click to expand...

Personally, I want it for platforming.

Think about how awesome Chrysalis Pyramid would be if you could get to the next moving platform with a jump.
 
R

Raticus79

Seek victory, not fairness
Zalusithix said:
Ignoring the whole argument about IK being good enough since that's somewhat unwinnable, lets flip this around. I've outlined the benefits of accurate torso tracking and some of the complications foot tracking will have to deal with. What, on the other hand, do you really gain by having foot tracking? The amount of times we kick things on a daily basis are extremely limited. Outside of supporting our bodies and moving us around, our feet get relatively little use. There's a couple of sports that use them, and extreme things like kicking somebody in combat. I can't even remember the last time I used my feet to interact with the world except to nudge something out of the way (a case I don't have to worry about in VR).

Then there's the fact that kicking itself has risks in VR. The legs have a larger extension than our arms, are harder to stop once in motion, and are crucial to maintaining our balance. Combine this with roomscale and you're upping the chance that you're going to clip something in the real world, potentially damaging it, and possibly losing your balance and falling. We already have people smacking controllers against walls etc.

I don't see the point in the first additional tracking to VR being the option that needs 2 independently tracked points, has positional sync issues between VR and RL, is of limited practical use, increases the hazard rate / legal liability, and does nothing to aide the wireless conundrum.
Click to expand...

That's what I was referring to with the scope of games - it's a bit of a catch 22 where the examples aren't there because the device doesn't exist yet. Here are some examples of simple applications:
- soccer: the ball gets rolled at you from different directions and you try to kick it into the net. (UE4's continuous physics could help a lot here)
- dance (e.g. use your feet in AudioShield, DDR VR)
- standing guided yoga poses
- stomp stuff in giant-monster games
- use your foot to kick over the plant in Accounting
- kick the dude out of the chopper
- pedal emulation for cockpit sims

It definitely adds some safety risk for walls, pets, etc.

Torso tracking's good for immersion, but for gameplay, it's not really a selling point in itself - handy as it is for a game like H3VR where it's useful for pockets. Edit: however, it would be more useful than foot tracking for the examples you gave.

Fortunately it's not like we really have to pick and choose anyway. Realistically, the two devices would be so similar that there wouldn't be much point making one without the other. One big challenge for the belt idea is the fact that Lighthouse's sensor approach relies on the tracked object being rigid (although I guess there could be a few rigid objects spaced out along an otherwise flexible band). Separately tracked chest and back plates would probably work better overall - one big benefit of that is breathing could be tracked, which is pretty big for social presence.

Wonder if people would play a VR version of this:
67NpSpb.jpg
 
Zalusithix

Zalusithix

Member
E-flux said:
We could be finally playing twister online, imagine that.
Click to expand...
But Twister requires the other people to add to the challenge. A Twister where you can phase through the bodies of other players is no Twister! ;P

Wowfunhappy said:
Personally, I want it for platforming.

Think about how awesome Chrysalis Pyramid would be if you could get to the next moving platform with a jump.
Click to expand...
I think we'd need a new space category for that sort of movement. Standing -> roomscale -> gymscale.

Raticus79 said:
That's what I was referring to with the scope of games - it's a bit of a catch 22 where the examples aren't there because the device doesn't exist yet. Here are some examples of simple applications:
- soccer: the ball gets rolled at you from different directions and you try to kick it into the net. (UE4's continuous physics could help a lot here)
- dance (e.g. use your feet in AudioShield, DDR VR)
- standing guided yoga poses
- stomp stuff in giant-monster games
- use your foot to kick over the plant in Accounting
- kick the dude out of the chopper
- pedal emulation for cockpit sims

It definitely adds some safety risk for walls, pets, etc.

Torso tracking's good for immersion, but for gameplay, it's not really a selling point in itself - handy as it is for a game like H3VR where it's useful for pockets. Edit: however, it would be more useful than foot tracking for the examples you gave.

Fortunately it's not like we really have to pick and choose anyway. Realistically, the two devices would be so similar that there wouldn't be much point making one without the other. One big challenge for the belt idea is the fact that Lighthouse's sensor approach relies on the tracked object being rigid. Separately tracked chest and back plates would probably work better overall - one big benefit of that is breathing could be tracked, which is pretty big for social presence.

Wonder if people would play a VR version of this:
67NpSpb.jpg
Click to expand...
Dance I'll give you, I forgot about that potential use case. (Looking forward to all the "Kinect with goggles strapped to your head" arguments.) Yoga and giant games seem to be more gimicky than practical. Kicking people/things is a "nice to have" but doesn't add that much to the experience. Pedal emulation would require somebody to get stick and throttle emulation working well first first; cart before the horse there. ;)

The belt sensor would be rigid; a box on your lower back as I'm imagining it. Much like the headset is a box on the front of your head. They can stud it with sensors, move most of the headset's electronics to it (lightening the headset), pack in additional wireless tech without weight/heat being a factor, and throw in a battery to boot. It just seems like the natural progression in refining current interaction while giving possible solutions to existing and upcoming problems. Foot tracking, on the other hand, seems to be the next "experimental" addition that'll come with its own host of problems to tackle..
 
W

Wowfunhappy

Member
Zalusithix said:
I think we'd need a new space category for that sort of movement. Standing -> roomscale -> gymscale.
Click to expand...

Holoball already forces you to run when used in larger play spaces, I don't see jumping as a particularly large extension of that. :p People just need to make sure that the area within the chaperones is actually empty.
 
B

Banzai

Member
I have some money coming my way around February-March and I thought about blowing it on some new pc hardware and a vive.
Should I? Or is a vive 2 reasonably close?
 
Zalusithix

Zalusithix

Member
Wowfunhappy said:
Holoball already forces you to run when used in larger play spaces, I don't see jumping as a particularly large extension of that. :p People just need to make sure that the area within the chaperones is actually empty.
Click to expand...

Holoball can ensure the virtual play area doesn't exceed that of the play space. Leaps will be downright impossible in smaller spaces, and can push the limits of what's possible in larger ones. Also, once we're getting into leaping around, wireless is pretty much mandatory. You don't want to trip on the cable or have it pulling your head back in the middle of a jump without any way to stop your momentum.
 
O

OnionPowder

Member
TharpDaddy said:
If you don't mind me asking, what games do you play for VR parties? I might get a headset in the near future and it'd be awesome to know what games are good for something like that.
Click to expand...

Depends on the audience. For people experiencing for the first time, anything works. It's fun to hang out do other activities while we cycle people through the VR headset.

Good stuff to do with beginners:

Richie's Plank Experience

GPU Cubes VR

Tilt Brush (the best for non gamers)

Best co-op game i've played is VR the Diner Duo where one person plays on the monitor with a gamepad or M&K and takes orders and delivers food while the person in the headset cooks burgers with a variety of recipes.

I'm looking to get some horror games as everybody seems to have a good time watching somebody freaked the hell out.
 
K

kinggroin

Banned
SomTervo said:
Cool, and buy the game itself through the oculus store?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Yep.

Keep in mind with every game you buy and install, you need to go to settings (in the Oculus home store app) and then BETA, and then click "Restart Oculus Service"


...Unless Revive dude updated his wrapper to not need that step anymore
 
W

Wowfunhappy

Member
My (new) landlord says I can hang pictures on walls as long as I use a nail less than 1". Will this apply to the (default, included) Vive Lighthouse braces as well?

[/new owner of first apartment who knows nothing about anything]
 
S

Sleeping Lesson

Member
Wowfunhappy said:
My (new) landlord says I can hang pictures on walls as long as I use a nail ≥1". Will this apply to the (default, included) Vive Lighthouse brakes as well?

[/new owner of first apartment who knows nothing about anything]
Click to expand...

Drywall is 3/8" thick, so I'm not sure why it would matter. Best practice is to always fill your holes when you move out of an apartment anyway.
 
Z

Zepp Twofist

Member
Played Thumper for 30 minutes or so, and I think my main lesson is that my rhythm is dogshit. Game is a good example of how to do seated VR with conventional controllers though (I used kb), but on the other hand I am not sure if it gave me a lot more than if I had just played it on flatscreen.
 
Zalusithix

Zalusithix

Member
Picked up Sairento VR today and gave it a whirl. It's like a single player focused Raw Data where you play Saija, but can also wield guns. If that sounds broken, that's because it is, and I'll be damned if it isn't glorious. Definitely a power trip game.

Movement (in full mode) is dash type teleportation with two parts: You either choose to zip through in a straight line (cutting as you go if with a blade), or arc into the air at which point you can enter a short bullet time period at the jump apex allowing you to rain fire down upon the enemies, or indeed even line up another teleportation arc to kind of double jump.

Firing while in bullet time during a jump:
ftcz5G8.jpg


You also enter bullet time with head shots and melee kills. Weapons can be augmented with various stat boosters and skill points can be spent to upgrade base stats (eg: recovery rates), powers (eg: energy blade throws), and abilities (eg: dual wielding multiple of the same weapon type).

Core game mechanics are currently basic survival/wave/boss sorts of affairs, and being EA it has its share of glitches (though the focus regeneration bug is supposedly fixed now). The AI isn't exactly smart, but then again I'm not sure if that's a bad thing. Overall I'm quite looking forward to seeing where this heads.

Edit: I have to say that tele-jumping is one of my favorite new things to do in VR now.
 
G

GuitarAtomik

Member
^^ Picked that one up today but haven't fired it up yet. Saw a lot of good impressions.

Anyone play SVRVIVE? I'm debating on picking that up during the sale. It has pretty good reviews on Steam and the demo makes it seem like a surprisingly full featured VR game.
 
ArtHands

ArtHands

Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Zalusithix said:
Picked up Sairento VR today and gave it a whirl. It's like a single player focused Raw Data where you play Saija, but can also wield guns. If that sounds broken, that's because it is, and I'll be damned if it isn't glorious. Definitely a power trip game.

Movement (in full mode) is dash type teleportation with two parts: You either choose to zip through in a straight line (cutting as you go if with a blade), or arc into the air at which point you can enter a short bullet time period at the jump apex allowing you to rain fire down upon the enemies, or indeed even line up another teleportation arc to kind of double jump.

Firing while in bullet time during a jump:
ftcz5G8.jpg


You also enter bullet time with head shots and melee kills. Weapons can be augmented with various stat boosters and skill points can be spent to upgrade base stats (eg: recovery rates), powers (eg: energy blade throws), and abilities (eg: dual wielding multiple of the same weapon type).

Core game mechanics are currently basic survival/wave/boss sorts of affairs, and being EA it has its share of glitches (though the focus regeneration bug is supposedly fixed now). The AI isn't exactly smart, but then again I'm not sure if that's a bad thing. Overall I'm quite looking forward to seeing where this heads.

Edit: I have to say that tele-jumping is one of my favorite new things to do in VR now.
Click to expand...

This game is developed by my friend. I have promised him that I'll buy it to show my support
 
Zalusithix

Zalusithix

Member
ArtHands said:
This game is developed by my friend. I have promised him that I'll buy it to show my support
Click to expand...

Well they've got a good start, and you could certainly find worse things to spend your money on in VR. =)

There's obviously lots of room for improvement though. Basic things like being able to abandon a level are missing. I had to force quit the game a number of times due to focus running dry and not recharging. No focus = no movement. It also would benefit from a practice dojo where you can test loadouts in a controlled manner (and would fit with the theme). The controls could also use some work. I'm not a huge fan of using the grip buttons to change the teleport mode in a fast paced game; the touchpad should be bisected into two buttons instead of acting as a giant monolithic one. Top would do bullet leap, bottom for dash.
 
S

SomTervo

Member
kinggroin said:
Yep.

Keep in mind with every game you buy and install, you need to go to settings (in the Oculus home store app) and then BETA, and then click "Restart Oculus Service"


...Unless Revive dude updated his wrapper to not need that step anymore
Click to expand...

Literally set ReVive up last night and completed SuperHOT in one sitting.

Fucking phenomenal. Genuinely brilliant. Can't wait to play it again. Might do so right now...

Thanks for the recommends, everyone.
 
O

Onemic

Member
I think F-Zero GX is quickly becoming one of my favourite VR experiences. Redout honestly doesnt even compare. Only thing I wish is that cockpit views were a thing back in the GC era for even better immersion.
 
A

atom519

Member
kinggroin said:
Yep.

Keep in mind with every game you buy and install, you need to go to settings (in the Oculus home store app) and then BETA, and then click "Restart Oculus Service"


...Unless Revive dude updated his wrapper to not need that step anymore
Click to expand...

I've bought a handful of games off the Oculus store and never had to do this FYI, I assume it's been updated.
 
D

deadfolk

Member
Seiru said:
I mean, it's a different game

If they called it Superhot 1.5 I don't see how the early supporters could be upset
Click to expand...

Okay, if it's actually different apart from VR support, I guess that's fine.

Apart from the platform exclusivity, but that's a different argument we've already beaten to death.

Still, it's a shame. I held off playing (and only bought) because there was a VR version coming.
 
R

RurouniZel

Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
So... after complaining several pages back about not being able to get Solus Project working well on a 980ti, I decided to try again since it was on Winter Sale. After spending more time with the settings (and also with Chaperone Manager) I finally got it up and running by using Chaperone Manager to help with the resolution / sampling rather than any ingame options. The trick is that after upping the CM setting to 1.5 I had to downgrade some other graphics settings to Medium. But once I did that I got mostly smooth movement and rotation and most importantly no sickness.

So I apologize for being kind of an uninformed dumbass before. :/
 
D

Deleted member 59090

Unconfirmed Member
Finally tried Thumper in VR today and it is so much better. I don't think I want to play it on a monitor anymore.
 
J

jokingbird

Member
Seiru said:
There is no Steam version of VR Superhot
Click to expand...

The Devs have all but confirmed it is coming to steam. They had to prioritize Oculus as they were funding some of the development. I believe it will show up on all the other VR platforms sometime next year.

And yeah, people keep thinking it is the same game. Maybe calling it Super Hot 2 VR Electric Boogaloo might have helped. Even in their own forums people are complaining about it.

deadfolk said:
So it's a separate app from the original? What a kick in the teeth for early supporters.
Click to expand...

Well the kickstarter backers got Super Hot VR for free, so not exactly a kick in the teeth. They have been nothing but good to their fans. People over react when it comes to this stuff. I had the same problem when I first heard about it. It is a PR issue on their end if anything.
 
Zalusithix

Zalusithix

Member
The more I play Sairento, the more I just enjoy jumping around like an idiot. You'd think that it would be more discomforting than standard slide movement, but there's something about the speed and airborne nature of it that for me it has virtually no negative effects.



Note neither of these are using bullet time jumps. They're just the standard variety real time ones as bullet time in the air doesn't benefit dual blades. Full video of the level is here. Nothing particularly skillful, just a random capture after a doing a number of other levels. (Hence my abnormally shaky hand.)
 
D

Durante

Member
That looks really good. Not just the jumping but the entire game. I hadn't even looked at it before, with so much VR stuff being released at once.
 
P

Padinn

Member
I'm debating raw data while on sale.

I grabbed project cars because it's so cheap and I love racers, but never played one I'm vr.
 
Putosaure

Putosaure

Member
Thumper in VR is pretty neat. I try to stick to the Vive controllers to play, but I may change to a regular controller as some quick move has to be made sometimes.
 
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