Support NeoGAF

[Lasha]

30FPS was fine and not a big deal for console gamers until modern games gave them a taste of what high framerates were like. 30FPS is now important because console gamers have seen the difference. The difference in appearance and playability is huge for most games.

I play most games on PC so framerate is usually a given. 30FPS sucks when you're used to 60FPS or greater. The difference isn't a showstopper. I'd rather play a good game at sub 30FPS than a mediocre game at 100FPS.

 

[R6Rider]

In fact, even dragging windows on the desktop below 60fps

This is the worst. We got new monitors at my office recently and there was an issue with my defaulting to 30hz and it was fucking awful.

Was an easy fix luckily.

 

[alphachino]

Growing up in the EU, we had 50hz versions of 60hz games and it was awful, forever craving that 60hz goodness. While Hz and fps aren't the same thing, we have been conditioned since childhood to desire 60fps. Look at the Ridge Racer Turbo PS1 60fps demo as an example, or when we found out Tobal No. 2 was gonna be 60fps but was only going to be available in Japan. 60fps, while not always essential, is massively desirable. Sure, if there are no other options, then 30fps is fine, but I will never play a game at 30fps if there is a 60fps version available on another platform such as PC.

 

[SF Kosmo]

I'd take 1440/60 over 4K/30.

If it was that simple, they'd give you that option. But it's more likely a CPU bottleneck.

 

[Yoboman]

Previous gens didn't have the ability to scale resolution to up the frame rate

Unless you're some insane feat of graphics like UE5 then it should be 60 FPS.

It seems clear to me on Redfall and Starfield they've been told to prioritise native 4k over frame rate and/or that frame rate can't differ between Series X and Series S

 

[genesisblock]

Every new release we have this discussion "oh it's unplayable"...
You forgot playing your fav games on previous platforms? Your best games were or still are 30fps and you had a blast playing them.
Remember how much fan you used to have with games.
How much you were in awe of new graphics.
Remember the hard boss which required a very fast input response which you had no problem beating in old 30fps games.
To say all of that doesn't matter anymore is nonsense.
I know the argument "but the time moves forward and things change". Yes... and no. Fun never changes. Only your standards do but don't fool yourself, you can't have fun again. Don't become a slave of your standards.
The argument that new tech is more demanding is valid of course. yes, 4k tvs will expose how shitty 720p games look or oled tvs will expose judder at 30fps... but that's only a part of it.

I like how you speak in behalf of everyone. It's easy to tell the experience changes when you play COD4 and every other 30fps. Not that I didn't enjoy them, I just want to know why it wasn't the default experience which led me to PC gaming early on.

Just because you somehow only now in 2022 discovered 60fps, does not mean the world has ended and "my eyes hurt" when playing at 30fps. It's crazy and shortsighted. just play for 10 minutes.

No, we discovered 60fps way back in the Nintendo era. You're just seeing more and more people shouting at the rooftops to make it a standard.

And I got too technical again... and that proves my point. Who cares about any of that? Why does it matter? Don't we just want to play a breathtaking game?

It ain't breathtaking until you played it in the best possible experience: High resolution, max settings, highest possible framerate and the best input response. Why lock yourself into something that could've played better.

Disclaimer - I am not saying 60,120,240fps is not better. of course it is. But it's not the point of gaming. The point of gaming... is to have an experience and enjoy yourself. If You are avoiding 30fps games because it is unplayable, it is a total nonsense. To discard a possibly ground breaking games. To discard your maybe new favorite games because the fps is not 60? Say goodbye to ever playing dark souls when it release, uncharted games, gears, gta games...
Yeah, I finished tlou2 and death stranding on ps4 at 30fps.... and I will finish them again at 60fps as it released. But the 30fps was needed at the time to created the experience.

Yes, and that is why we want a best part of the experience. You can get an experience flying in economy class or you can do it first class. If I had the money, I know where I'd put it.

If You still can't deal with that... just please, get a pc and enjoy your passion there.

Is this a joke? You're talking as if everyone here only owns consoles.

 

[UltimaKilo]

30FPS was fine and not a big deal for console gamers until modern games gave them a taste of what high framerates were like. 30FPS is now important because console gamers have seen the difference. The difference in appearance and playability is huge for most games.

I play most games on PC so framerate is usually a given. 30FPS sucks when you're used to 60FPS or greater. The difference isn't a showstopper. I'd rather play a good game at sub 30FPS than a mediocre game at 100FPS.

I understand how nice 60+ FPS is, but it's not necessary. I'm sure both Sony and Microsoft will target 4K60 with their new mid-cycle refreshes consoles, so consumers will have that option at some point. For now, I'm wildly enjoying Tears of the Kingdom on the Switch.

 

[NikuNashi]

60fps or I dont play.

Switch I dont concider a current gen console so I will give nintendo a little bit of room. But PS5 / Xbox Series X I dont wanna see any 30fps, send that crap back to the old school.

 

[Shh]

I'm so tired of people being so tired of things.

 

[DelireMan7]

Amen !

Don't want to enter more the discussion but I can't agree more with you. You perfectly retranscribed my view of gaming and how I don't get all the discussions and complaints about framerate or "visuals fidelity"/graphics...

 

[GigaBowser]

I will takes a 30 fps games with deeps interactions over a 60 fps shallownesses any days of the week

but if you can make a deep games at 60 fps then whys not?

 

[01011001]

I will takes a 30 fps games with deeps interactions over a 60 fps shallownesses any days of the week

but if you can make a deep games at 60 fps then whys not?

hilariously, most 30fps games are shallow as fuck so there's no excuse

 

[bitbydeath]

I'm convinced people not liking 30FPS is mostly those with bad eyesight. Remember GTA got big on less than 30FPS.

 

[Thyuda]

I'm convinced people not liking 30FPS is mostly those with bad eyesight. Remember GTA got big on less than 30FPS.

Yeah, but this goes kind of in the direction of an argument "because it worked back then means it's acceptable today".
Have you tried playing these games today, on original hardware?
I went back to some of my favorites from 20 years ago, it's not a very fun experience .

 

[GymWolf]

I have a pc so i'm not bothered if the 2-3 exclusive games i play on console every year push the graphic over framerate, these consoles are greatly underpowered boxes, you people cried in anguish at the idea of a pricey, deluxe console so now you should just shut the fuck up and admire the result of your cheap whining.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Growing up, Arcades always presented the top notch experience.

And nobody made 30fps arcade games.

 

[Roxkis_ii]

Accord to Google Bard 75 % of games released on Xbox Series X and PS5 have an option for 60 fps. The cat is out the bag.

Arguing people should be fine with 30 fps is like arguing we should keep games 2d or sound in mono. It's ridiculous.

Every poll of neogaf on the subject has had framerate beat out everything else. Console gamers have spoken. Not having an option for 60 fps is no longer an option.

 

[Schmendrick]

Too much text for saying:
"Consoles are budget hardware. Deal with it or pay premium for a beefy PC"

 

[Edgelord79]

Agree with OP. Getting tedious.

 

[scarlet0pimp]

gaming at 30 is perfectly fine for most games, for games that are not fine at 30 developers can just tone the graphics down or resolution or what ever it is and have the game run at 60. Leave that choice to developers.
If developers want to they can include a 60 fps mode and let he user decide and that is fine too.
Games like Starfield though perhaps there are other reasons why a 60fps mode cant be offered complex physics for example taking up CPU, and that is fine its up to the developers what they want to do with their games and the hardware they are trying to run it on.
Personally I have had an issue with my work computer which was stuck at 30 hz which felt terrible, new 4k monitor but only a HDMI 1,4 port on the laptop, solved by using the USB port and docking station. Games at 30 though I have no issue at all with.

 

[bitbydeath]

Yeah, but this goes kind of in the direction of an argument "because it worked back then means it's acceptable today".
Have you tried playing these games today, on original hardware?
I went back to some of my favorites from 20 years ago, it's not a very fun experience .

Maybe so but I wouldn't consider it to be unplayable.

 

[Thyuda]

Maybe so but I wouldn't consider it to be unplayable.

I agree, it's playable, just not pleasant. I recently tried WiiU Emulation of the Zelda remakes, whilst they look great, the 30fps hardlock was, for me, distracting. Playable, but distracting.

 

[Gandih42]

I find 60 FPS immensely more enjoyable to watch and play so given the choice I'd prefer that as a standard rather than 30 FPS. It is cool when games push the boundaries visually, but I think pushing the boundary visually at 60 FPS is more appealing than 30 FPS.

If we factor in Input Latency, I'd say good feeling responsive gameplay (low input latency) > 60 FPS > Cutting-edge Visuals.

As for the discourse around games being "unplayable", there are certainly some takes I find very hard to relate to. If you look broadly at what people play (outside of GAF) its very obvious that 30 FPS is sufficient for most people. Furthermore, ToTK proves quite convincingly that you don't need 60 FPS or cutting edge visuals to create a good, fun, beautiful game. So yeah, a game being "ruined/unplayable" for running at 30 FPS on consoles does not make sense to me.

That being said, I can understand why people take issue with games at 30 FPS if they do not justify it with their visuals, interactivity, console etc. Redfall being a good example of that.

 

[Rickyiez]

30 FPS is not a game, it's a slideshow

Bloodborne is the only exception

 

[Ywap]

Why is people discussing framerate ruining console gaming for you OP?

If you´re good with 15, 30 or whatever just keep enjoying your time.

Personally i wouldn´t go near anything running at 30 or below, that´s why i´m on PC.

 

[Reckheim]

I'm glad you're good with 30fps. I'm not.

I enjoyed ps2 games that ran at 20 fps as well cause that is all we had. Its not 2001 anymore; standards have changed.

 

[Thyuda]

30 FPS is not a game, it's a slideshow

Bloodborne is the only exception

I still blame my inability to defeat Father Gascoigne on the framerate... I'm sure that was the cause of it.

 

[NovaSe7en]

Console bros are always 10 or more years behind the curve, and never has it been more apparent than with this gen.

 

[Kvally]

As long as it doesn't negatively impact the game in anyway, or deter from the developers dreams, I think it's great to have both options. Some people like 30 and some people like 60. We keep upgrading our gaming devices to get the best possible graphics and performance, might as well use it.

 

[balls of snow]

I agree. 30 fps was what got us Uncharted 4, death Stranding, red dead 2.
The iq hit is too much for 60 fps in games like ffxvi demo.

 

[PaNaMa]

There are absolutely no cases where a game running at 30fps feels better to play than a game running at 60fps. You are deluding yourself if you say otherwise. You are living in denial. You are lying to yourself. A screenshot / still taken at 30fps on console would look better than a screenshot taken at 60fps. If that's the victory you are looking for, you can have it. Give me 60fps or give me death

 

[Facism]

I have a pc so i'm not bothered if the 2-3 exclusive games i play on console every year push the graphic over framerate, these consoles are greatly underpowered boxes, you people cried in anguish at the idea of a pricey, deluxe console so now you should just shut the fuck up and admire the result of your cheap whining.

Whilst paying 80 euros for each new release

 

[balls of snow]

I'd take 1440/60 over 4K/30.

If only tv manufacturers got the memo.

 

[tusharngf]

switched to PC and ps pro in 2018 and never looked back. Later sold the PRO console and got a rtx3080 PC. I cant stand 30fps no matter how good graphics are.

 

[NeptuneCL]

I think you're absolutely right

 

[dorkimoe]

Dumbest argument I've ever heard. I also enjoyed 8 bit games 30 years ago doesn't meant I want an 8bit gears of war. Of course 30fps was fine back then because it's all we knew. Go play a 60fps game and switch back it's fucking trash.

 

[Black_Stride]

1440p90fps minimum.

Ill reduce settings or DLSS if i cant.

 

[sn0man]

Every new release we have this discussion "oh it's unplayable"...
You forgot playing your fav games on previous platforms? Your best games were or still are 480i and you had a blast playing them.
Remember how much fan you used to have with games.

Counterpoint: if we had this lax of a standard with 2D resolution we would still be playing MGS1 PS1 style.

30fps is fine but we have ability to make it better, so we should.

 

[Victor Omega]

Home console use to be sold as computers in thr 80s
Video games console use to try to keep up with arcade machine in the 90s
Video games use to use CGI animated /HD films as benchmark in the 2000s

Framerate is just another steppingstone in home console catching up to PC.

The problem now is you people want it the other way around where PC slows down to cater to home console.

25fps is for film, 60fps is for gaming.

That's it.

 

[SABRE220]

Jesus christ the hyperbole over 60fps is disturbing, its like indoctrination where people start screaming 60fps or bust even though we have had 30fps games that had lower input lags than current gen 60fps games but the 60fps buzzword is gospel!

Some of the greatest games ever created were 30fps and noone batted a eye, near all of the games that pushed tech on consoles to their limits and pushed the genre forward have been 30fps but screw that give us 60fps ps4 games for the whole gen....why would any developer even bother to push tech when the moment they decide to make a design decision they would get slammed on social media for said decision.....worse still is the hypocrisy when people will flock to and praise games like zelda to the heavens and beyond for pushing tech and the genre forward yet lambast other developers for attempting to even think of doing the same. I get the argument for 60fps, of course its great when available but it should not be a damn collar on the necks of developers and if the dev feels they need to develop a game with scale and systems that require 30fps thats is fine!

I wish people tried to understand that not every game can be simply redesigned to reduce resolution and effects for 60fps, there are certain outputs that simply wont be possible on fixed hardware if 60fps is targeted and those attempts should be allowed to take place instead of treated as heresy. If the 60fps zealots had their way we wouldnt have gotten games like gears of war, masseffect2, killzone, skyrim etc running with their full systems on earlier consoles.

 

[GymWolf]

Whilst paying 80 euros for each new release

I don't get the point but it's easy to not pay full price unless you are new to the internet.

 

[cireza]

Especially when you guys want 4k native also.

Nobody asked for this.

At least you are consistent in your posts : pretentious and based on your fantasy world.

 

[Roxkis_ii]

Jesus christ the hyperbole over 60fps is disturbing, its like indoctrination where people start screaming 60fps or bust even though we have had 30fps games that had lower input lags than current gen 60fps games but the 60fps buzzword is gospel!

Some of the greatest games ever created were 30fps and noone batted a eye, near all of the games that pushed tech on consoles to their limits and pushed the genre forward have been 30fps but screw that give us 60fps ps4 games for the whole gen....why would any developer even bother to push tech when the moment they decide to make a design decision they would get slammed on social media for said decision.....worse still is the hypocrisy when people will flock to and praise games like zelda to the heavens and beyond for pushing tech and the genre forward yet lambast other developers for attempting to even think of doing the same.

I wish people tried to understand that not every game can be simply redesigned to reduce resolution and effects for 60fps, there are certain outputs that simply wont be possible on fixed hardware if 60fps is targeted and those attempts should be allowed to take place instead of treated as heresy. If the 60fps zealots had their way we wouldnt have gotten games like gears of war, masseffect2, killzone, skyrim etc running with their full systems on earlier consoles.

What a retarded argument. Zelda is on a last gen mobile console, no one is expecting that game to run at 60 fps on a Switch (but guess what's the most popular mod for people playing it on PC).

"Some of our greatest game 30 fps"

So games should stay 30 fps forever!?
You sound ridiculous. If you perferr slide shows, say that, but don't come after people for wanting better. Regardless of what anyone says 60 fps is better then 30 fps.

 

[CuNi]

Jesus christ the hyperbole over 60fps is disturbing, its like indoctrination where people start screaming 60fps or bust even though we have had 30fps games that had lower input lags than current gen 60fps games but the 60fps buzzword is gospel!

Some of the greatest games ever created were 30fps and noone batted a eye, near all of the games that pushed tech on consoles to their limits and pushed the genre forward have been 30fps but screw that give us 60fps ps4 games for the whole gen....why would any developer even bother to push tech when the moment they decide to make a design decision they would get slammed on social media for said decision.....worse still is the hypocrisy when people will flock to and praise games like zelda to the heavens and beyond for pushing tech and the genre forward yet lambast other developers for attempting to even think of doing the same.

I wish people tried to understand that not every game can be simply redesigned to reduce resolution and effects for 60fps, there are certain outputs that simply wont be possible on fixed hardware if 60fps is targeted and those attempts should be allowed to take place instead of treated as heresy. If the 60fps zealots had their way we wouldnt have gotten games like gears of war, masseffect2, killzone, skyrim etc running with their full systems on earlier consoles.

I totally agree with you!
The best time were when we still had only still images and no moving film!
Film ruined it all! BAH!

/s
In all honesty, yes some of the greatest games were in 30fps, but some of the best movies were black and white and some of the best songs were played live only.
But we are way past that, we should try to advance on every front, not just a selected few. Movies being still stuck with 24,97 fps is still mind-boggling to me.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

So...Starfield thread?

 

[FalsettoVibe]

Let people want what they want OP. Developers will adjust according to the masses.

 

[rodrigolfp]

I'm convinced people not liking 30FPS is mostly those with bad eyesight. Remember GTA got big on less than 30FPS.

It's the opposite. They have good eyesight so they can clearly see the gaps between frames and the delay between button presses and the actions on the screen.

 

[lughnasadh123]

PC should be where you go to push to 120+ fps and console should be 60 as a base. At the bare minimum we should always be getting an option between performance and fidelity modes.

 

[MALpractice311]

Let's also not forget. 30fps is not all created equally. Demons Souls 30fps mode got 75ms more input lag than 30fps in bloodborne.... which is snappier than some 60fps gamest this gen.
yes. Bloodborne traded some frame pacing for that fast input response... but so what? It's still the best game ever probably. We played the shit out of it and never once we cared for some stutters here and there... or 30fps at all.
(towards end of the vid it's explained why bloodborne feels so good):

I loved Bloodborne. Still do. I played it for a few hours on my PS5 a few weeks ago and, yes, it does feel super responsive, but what you're describing here is the exception, rather than the rule. I defy you to find examples of this phenomenon, other than Fromsoft games with 30fps caps.

Fromsoft prioritizes gameplay above all else. They always have. But not all developers are Fromsoft. Most developers just want to make the the nicest looking game first and only then do they consider performance or responsiveness. And then it seems those other developers always decide they need to prioritize unnecessary bells and whistles that make still images of games look good (I'm looking at you 4k and ray tracing--1440p and baked lighting is fine) is more important than things like input lag and performance.

 

[rofif]

I loved Bloodborne. Still do. I played it for a few hours on my PS5 a few weeks ago and, yes, it does feel super responsive, but what you're describing here is the exception, rather than the rule. I defy you to find examples of this phenomenon, other than Fromsoft games with 30fps caps.

Fromsoft prioritizes gameplay above all else. They always have. But not all developers are Fromsoft. Most developers just want to make the the nicest looking game first and only then do they consider performance or responsiveness. And then it seems those other developers always decide they need to prioritize unnecessary bells and whistles that make still images of games look good (I'm looking at you 4k and ray tracing--1440p and baked lighting is fine) is more important than things like input lag and performance.

you are right. Sadly it is an exception. From Software despite all their technical drawbacks, do some very well playing games and make it look easy. Especially visible with Demons Souls remake.