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[Felix Lighter]

DDR3 Memory is so cheap right now. Is there still no reason to upgrade above 4GB?

 

[catapult37]

I've got a 37" LCD 1080p monitor that I use as my TV, and wondering if I could use it for PC gaming. Would my GPU requirements be the same as playing in 1080 on a traditional, smaller LCD? Would I be sacrificing a lot of visual quality because of the size difference (I dunno, the pixels are bigger or something)? What does one need to consider if they're going to PC game on an HDTV?

 

[TheExodu5]

I've got a 37" LCD 1080p monitor that I use as my TV, and wondering if I could use it for PC gaming. Would my GPU requirements be the same as playing in 1080 on a traditional, smaller LCD? Would I be sacrificing a lot of visual quality because of the size difference (I dunno, the pixels are bigger or something)? What does one need to consider if they're going to PC game on an HDTV?

The main issue you might encounter is input lag. While most LCD monitors have input lag that's around 5-10ms, LCD TVs can range from 5ms-140ms (like many Samsung and 120Hz models).

In terms of picture quality, I would expect it to be better than your monitor. Sure, the bigger size will makes jaggies more obvious, but the colors and viewing angles should beat the pants off any TN panel.

 

[TheExodu5]

If anyone is running an EVGA GTX 460, they recently released the FPB which unlocks 100% fan speed on all models and gives a stable 6% increase to the core/processor making it 720/1440 on two models. (including my two GTX 460 1024MB EE [external exhaust] cards)

It's great for those not comfortable in overclocking themselves and everyone can use the max fan speed.

link

Just a warning: 100% fan speeds is going to sound like a fleet of Xbox 360 launch models in full tilt. Seriously, nothing can prepare you for how loud these cards can get with their fan speeds maxed out.

 

[TheExodu5]

DDR3 Memory is so cheap right now. Is there still no reason to upgrade above 4GB?

Peace of mind, mainly. With my 4GB setup, I've gone above 3.5GB quite a few times. For te extra $30-40 it costs to go to 8GB, I think it's hard not to justify it on any $1000+ build.

 

[Shambles]

My current buil:

Phenom 2 x4 940 (3Gz)
Gskill ddr2 4gb ram
Gtx 580

Will ugrading to a 2500k significantly boost gaming performance?
I play at 1080 but am considering upgrading to a higher res monitor or a 120hz 1080p screen.

I'd like to hear some opinions before I find out I may have wasted money for minimal gains.

Yes it will be a waste. Overclock the 940 to 3.6 and you'll bring it's gaming performance up near SNB.

 

[Ecrofirt]

Question:
If I get a new 2011 i5 processor and an H67 board that's listed as being 'Dual Channel' with 4 RAM slots, I can't then do triple-data-rate with the DDR3 RAM I'd be buying, right?

As such, would it be better to get 4x1/2GB (totaling either 4GB or 8GB depending on what I decide to purchase), or would i benefit more from one of those 3x2GB kits, speed-wise? Obviously the amount of RAM doesn't match up, but by the virtue of the motherboard being dual channel, wouldn't I lose the dual-channel capability if I've got an odd number of sticks in the system?

 

[Emitan]

Peace of mind, mainly. With my 4GB setup, I've gone above 3.5GB quite a few times. For te extra $30-40 it costs to go to 8GB, I think it's hard not to justify it on any $1000+ build.

Aren't OS's designed to use as much RAM as possible? Just because you're using 3.5GB doesn't mean you need 3.5GB of RAM.

 

[scorcho]

Question:
If I get a new 2011 i5 processor and an H67 board that's listed as being 'Dual Channel' with 4 RAM slots, I can't then do triple-data-rate with the DDR3 RAM I'd be buying, right?

As such, would it be better to get 4x1/2GB (totaling either 4GB or 8GB depending on what I decide to purchase), or would i benefit more from one of those 3x2GB kits, speed-wise? Obviously the amount of RAM doesn't match up, but by the virtue of the motherboard being dual channel, wouldn't I lose the dual-channel capability if I've got an odd number of sticks in the system?

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/Intel-Core-i7-Nehalem,2057-13.html

don't fret over single, dual or triple channel. latency still means more in real-world performance.

 

[·feist·]

Question:
If I get a new 2011 i5 processor and an H67 board that's listed as being 'Dual Channel' with 4 RAM slots, I can't then do triple-data-rate with the DDR3 RAM I'd be buying, right?

As such, would it be better to get 4x1/2GB (totaling either 4GB or 8GB depending on what I decide to purchase), or would i benefit more from one of those 3x2GB kits, speed-wise? Obviously the amount of RAM doesn't match up, but by the virtue of the motherboard being dual channel, wouldn't I lose the dual-channel capability if I've got an odd number of sticks in the system?

I think you are confusing terms. Your ram is Double Data Rate. Never mind the number at the end of the name. It's generally best to keep your ram properly matched, and in line with what your motherboard is spec'd for.

With a dual channel motherboard, you do not want to run a 3x2GB kit. That's for triple channel cable boards. Also, it's a good idea to avoid populating every slot if you can help it:

2x2GB > 4x1GB
2x4GB > 4x2GB

You are better off avoiding memory combinations that would leave you with 3GB, 6GB, and so on when dealing with a dual channel motherboard.

 

[Metalic Sand]

You are better off avoiding memory combinations that would leave you with 3GB, 6GB, and so on when dealing with a dual channel motherboard.

Im running 3x2GB sticks fine on my Dual channel board. Its showing as Dual channel for the sticks in the first slot as well. No problems overclocking.

 

[·feist·]

I wasn't saying that it isn't possible, just less than ideal. Obviously, not all boards are the same (power in particular) so certain combinations are not the best choice.

 

[Ecrofirt]

I think you are confusing terms. Your ram is Double Data Rate. Never mind the number at the end of the name. It's generally best to keep your ram properly matched, and in line with what your motherboard is spec'd for.

With a dual channel motherboard, you do not want to run a 3x2GB kit. That's for triple channel cable boards. Also, it's a good idea to avoid populating every slot if you can help it:

2x2GB > 4x1GB
2x4GB > 4x2GB

You are better off avoiding memory combinations that would leave you with 3GB, 6GB, and so on when dealing with a dual channel motherboard.

Thanks. I didn't confuse my terms, but I just didn't convey what I was trying to say very well.

I was confirming that using a multiple of 3 sticks in a dual channel board wouldn't be a benefit and would actually lose the dual channel bonus.

Now, what I hadn't ever heard was that it's a good idea to avoid populating every slot on the board. What's the reasoning behind this?

 

[gragy10]

http://www.memoryc.com/

Nice one - duly bookmarked

 

[Confusatron]

Here's my tentative component list.. I'm basically building an Asus computer. :lol Kinda makes me weary that all of the key/expensive components except for CPU are from one manufacturer.. Should I worry?

Just have to figure out which case/PSU (any recommendation on the PSU?), sell my MacBook Pro and I'm good to go.

Just noticed you have an H67 mobo teamed up with your i5 2500K in that build. Not sure if you know or not, but you need a P67 in order to OC the K series processors. If you're not worried about OCing the processor, save yourself $10 and drop down to the i5 2500. Otherwise, you might want to upgrade the mobo to a P67.

 

[mclaren777]

It looks like I'll be cancelling my Microcenter order (2600K+P6P67) because they are apparently giving in-store customers preferential treatment when it comes to inventory stock. It makes sense--it's just disappointing.

I wonder what kind of deals Fry's has...

 

[Ikuu]

You can get a great OC out of the 2500k just by hitting an option in the BIOS (for my P8P67), it overclocked mine to 4.3GHz without any issues.

 

[Hazaro]

UPS is taking my 2500K away and it's 40 minutes from me :[
DAMN YOU RETAIL FRAUD SYSTEMS.

At least it looks like another 2500K should ship out now.

You can get a great OC out of the 2500k just by hitting an option in the BIOS (for my P8P67), it overclocked mine to 4.3GHz without any issues.

With overclocking as easy as it is I'd just suggest you up the voltage to 1.2 or 1.25 and leave everything else alone. You are probably fine, but just letting you know. Keep memory under 1.65V (run at 1.5V if possible).

 

[Ikuu]

I just left it on auto, it jumps up to around 1.3 when it runs at 4.3GHz. I had it running at nearer 4.7GHz and it was fine for a few hours and then the system crashed, guessing it was the overclock. Going to leave the proper overclocking until I tidy up my case a little and fix some stuff. But still a 1GHz OC without having to do a thing is pretty nice.

 

[Mobius1B7R]

Anyone else having problems with Amazon? Is this a weather related issue? I bought an SSD for my new build 2 days ago and picked one day shipping and it's been "Shipping soon" ever since with a date of the 14th. It was in stock when I bought it too.

 

[Grimm Fandango]

UPS is taking my 2500K away and it's 40 minutes from me :[
DAMN YOU RETAIL FRAUD SYSTEMS.

Half of my order arrived in Hodgkins, IL today at 12pm. That is like 15 miles from my apartment. I have to wait until tomorrow to receive them...

WHY NOT GO ALL THE WAY!? :'(

Anyone else having problems with Amazon? Is this a weather related issue? I bought an SSD for my new build 2 days ago and picked one day shipping and it's been "Shipping soon" ever since with a date of the 14th. It was in stock when I bought it too.

I ordered a keyboard and a surge protector from Amazon 2 days ago. Arrived just a few minutes ago (Amazon Prime shipping).

 

[JoeBoy101]

You can get a great OC out of the 2500k just by hitting an option in the BIOS (for my P8P67), it overclocked mine to 4.3GHz without any issues.

What's the option, out of curiosity? Got the same board and chip along with my GPU from UPS today. Hopefully case and other innards tomorrow.

 

[MisterAnderson]

So I offered to help my friend build a pretty cheap gaming PC, so I used the OP rig as a template. I went to Fry's and asked the sales guy about the parts and he basically said that it's better to get a high end dual core AMD processor (I believe what we ended up getting was the Phenom II 3.3 Ghz, at $100 which was the same price as the quad core) instead of a lower end quad core which is what the one that was in the OP apparently was. He said for gaming it makes more sense since most games don't use hyper threading, and since it's the same price it's your better bet.

I'm just curious to know you guys' opinion on that, since we still have some time left to decide to return it and exchange it out for the quad core. He also recommended the Radeon 5770 over the GTX 460 although he said there really isn't much of a difference at all, he just felt like the 5770 was slightly more powerful.

 

[Emitan]

So I offered to help my friend build a pretty cheap gaming PC, so I used the OP rig as a template. I went to Fry's and asked the sales guy about the parts and he basically said that it's better to get a high end dual core AMD processor (I believe what we ended up getting was the Phenom II 3.3 Ghz, at $100 which was the same price as the quad core) instead of a lower end quad core which is what the one that was in the OP apparently was. He said for gaming it makes more sense since most games don't use hyper threading, and since it's the same price it's your better bet.

I'm just curious to know you guys' opinion on that, since we still have some time left to decide to return it and exchange it out for the quad core. He also recommended the Radeon 5770 over the GTX 460 although he said there really isn't much of a difference at all, he just felt like the 5770 was slightly more powerful.

460 is better than the 5770. Unless you're on a tight budget go for the quad core. There's no point in buying a dual core anymore because quad cores are finally beginning to be taken advantage of.

 

[Ikuu]

What's the option, out of curiosity? Got the same board and chip along with my GPU from UPS today. Hopefully case and other innards tomorrow.

Think it's performance, there are 3 options (basically lower power, normal and performance)

 

[Hazaro]

So I offered to help my friend build a pretty cheap gaming PC, so I used the OP rig as a template. I went to Fry's and asked the sales guy about the parts and he basically said that it's better to get a high end dual core AMD processor (I believe what we ended up getting was the Phenom II 3.3 Ghz, at $100 which was the same price as the quad core) instead of a lower end quad core which is what the one that was in the OP apparently was. He said for gaming it makes more sense since most games don't use hyper threading, and since it's the same price it's your better bet.

I'm just curious to know you guys' opinion on that, since we still have some time left to decide to return it and exchange it out for the quad core.

You are trading 2 more cores for a 10% boost in clock speed. No, no no no no no no no. It also has more cache, but that is negligible.

He is correct in that some games could run a tiny bit faster, but the quad will do more than enough and when you run into a game that can actually use a quad you will see a massive boost.

He also recommended the Radeon 5770 over the GTX 460 although he said there really isn't much of a difference at all, he just felt like the 5770 was slightly more powerful.

Hahahahahaha. No.
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/172?vs=156

 

[LiquidMamba]

Anyone else having problems with Amazon? Is this a weather related issue? I bought an SSD for my new build 2 days ago and picked one day shipping and it's been "Shipping soon" ever since with a date of the 14th. It was in stock when I bought it too.

I have the same problem, I ordered a case from Amazon on the 9th and it still hasn't shipped out yet. I'm going to end up with all my parts but no case to put them in.

 

[Wallach]

So I offered to help my friend build a pretty cheap gaming PC, so I used the OP rig as a template. I went to Fry's and asked the sales guy about the parts and he basically said that it's better to get a high end dual core AMD processor (I believe what we ended up getting was the Phenom II 3.3 Ghz, at $100 which was the same price as the quad core) instead of a lower end quad core which is what the one that was in the OP apparently was. He said for gaming it makes more sense since most games don't use hyper threading, and since it's the same price it's your better bet.

I'm just curious to know you guys' opinion on that, since we still have some time left to decide to return it and exchange it out for the quad core. He also recommended the Radeon 5770 over the GTX 460 although he said there really isn't much of a difference at all, he just felt like the 5770 was slightly more powerful.

I don't think I would trade 2 cores for 300mhz. Not when more and more games are utilizing more than two cores.

As for the 5770 vs 460... no, definitely go with the 460. 1GB version if possible but I'd still take the 768MB over the 5770.

 

[MisterAnderson]

460 is better than the 5770. Unless you're on a tight budget go for the quad core. There's no point in buying a dual core anymore because quad cores are finally beginning to be taken advantage of.

So for straight up gaming, a $100 low end quad core is better than a $100 high end dual core? It had nothing to do with the budget as they were both the same price. Was the guy just trying to get some more commission for selling a dual core or some shit or was he just clueless? He seemed to know what he was talking about, lol.

If he does go return the processor and exchange it out...does that flip out the operating system? I don't need to go over to his place and have him reinstall windows 7 or anything right? A hardware change as drastic as swapping processors should just get recognized no problem?

And I may be remembering the graphics card wrong... is the 5770 the "equivalent" to the 460? Not that they are both identical but is that the most similar ATI version of it?

Edit: Alright thanks guys. I'll tell him to bring them back and exchange them out.

460 is similar to a 5850.

Oh okay, thanks!

 

[vocab]

And I may be remembering the graphics card wrong... is the 5770 the "equivalent" to the 460? Not that they are both identical but is that the most similar ATI version of it?

460 is similar to a 5850.

 

[Emitan]

So for straight up gaming, a $100 low end quad core is better than a $100 high end dual core? It had nothing to do with the budget as they were both the same price. Was the guy just trying to get some more commission for selling a dual core or some shit or was he just clueless? He seemed to know what he was talking about, lol.

If he does go return the processor and exchange it out...does that flip out the operating system? I don't need to go over to his place and have him reinstall windows 7 or anything right? A hardware change as drastic as swapping processors should just get recognized no problem?

And I may be remembering the graphics card wrong... is the 5770 the "equivalent" to the 460? Not that they are both identical but is that the most similar ATI version of it?

Windows isn't going to flip out if you have a new processor, but you might have to validate it again.

 

[ChoklitReign]

I have a question regarding processor "tiers" related to this. What's the big deal about Sandy Bridge processors for gaming? Why not just use an AMD processor for a computer mainly for gaming? Is it all hype and people are paying more for something they don't need?

 

[·feist·]

Thanks. I didn't confuse my terms, but I just didn't convey what I was trying to say very well.

I was confirming that using a multiple of 3 sticks in a dual channel board wouldn't be a benefit and would actually lose the dual channel bonus.

Now, what I hadn't ever heard was that it's a good idea to avoid populating every slot on the board. What's the reasoning behind this?

Ah, ok. Filling all DIMMs places more stress on your PC even if you aren't overclocking. With some boards it barely makes a difference at all, while others will require voltage increases which lead to more heat and wear, along with the added heat that additional modules bring.

 

[vocab]

I have a question regarding processor "tiers" related to this. What's the big deal about Sandy Bridge processors for gaming? Why not just use an AMD processor for a computer mainly for gaming? Is it all hype and people are paying more for something they don't need?

Noticable performance difference in a lot of games. Plus sandy bridge is the current OC champ. No reason to go with AMD.

 

[Ecto311]

Windows isn't going to flip out if you have a new processor, but you might have to validate it again.

I did this recently and didn't have to validate windows 7 for a new processor.

 

[gragy10]

Seriously considering pulling the trigger on a 128GB Crucial C300 - is now a relatively good time or are there new SSD chipset's due within the next couple of months?

 

[SuperLurker]

You can get a great OC out of the 2500k just by hitting an option in the BIOS (for my P8P67), it overclocked mine to 4.3GHz without any issues.

Keep an eye on what the auto OC utility does to your BCLK, when I ran it I ended up with something like 105 for the BCLK, while this says that anything over 100 can shorten the life of the CPU. I ended up resetting everything in the BIOS and just increased the multiplier to 44. Now I'm idling at 28C and maxing out at 58C when priming for a few hours.

 

[Shambles]

Huge performance difference in a lot of games. Plus sandy bridge is the current OC champ. No reason to go with AMD.

Only with skewed benchmarks. With the exception of a few games that are more CPU dependent like Civ5 the vast majority of games are limited by your GPU under real world usage and SNB's performance increases largely go to waste. While SNB is a great upgrade point for those coming from old machines it seems silly seeing people upgrade from higher end C2Q and Core i Series 1 chips to SNB.

On the other end it also depends if you overclock or not. A Q6600 at 2.4Ghz that isn't being overclocked will probably see a very noticeable difference to a SNB upgrade for gaming, but a Q6600 running at 3.4-3.6Ghz won't see much change. And of course everyone economic state also affects if it's "worth it" or not. If you have money to blow then it's sure exciting to be jumping on SNB and trying to push it towards 5Ghz.

 

[Nabs]

So I offered to help my friend build a pretty cheap gaming PC, so I used the OP rig as a template. I went to Fry's and asked the sales guy about the parts and he basically said that it's better to get a high end dual core AMD processor (I believe what we ended up getting was the Phenom II 3.3 Ghz, at $100 which was the same price as the quad core) instead of a lower end quad core which is what the one that was in the OP apparently was. He said for gaming it makes more sense since most games don't use hyper threading, and since it's the same price it's your better bet.

I'm just curious to know you guys' opinion on that, since we still have some time left to decide to return it and exchange it out for the quad core. He also recommended the Radeon 5770 over the GTX 460 although he said there really isn't much of a difference at all, he just felt like the 5770 was slightly more powerful.

that dude was trolling hard

 

[TheExodu5]

Noticable performance difference in a lot of games. Plus sandy bridge is the current OC champ. No reason to go with AMD.

Unless you're doing a budget build, of course.

 

[mm04]

Damn, good thing I read this thread from time to time. Otherwise I never would've known DDR3 memory has dropped so much in price. $48 for 4gb G.Skill DDR3 1600. That would get me to 8gb total. Should I do it?

 

[vocab]

Damn, good thing I read this thread from time to time. Otherwise I never would've known DDR3 memory has dropped so much in price. $48 for 4gb G.Skill DDR3 1600. That would get me to 8gb total. Should I do it?

I did it, and the performance is more or less the same, as expected. The only reason you should is like Theexodus said. Peace of mind, future proofing,etc. Me personally, save it for a SSD. Ram is just going to get cheaper anyway. Buy it if you REALLY want it.

 

[TheExodu5]

Only with skewed benchmarks. With the exception of a few games that are more CPU dependent like Civ5 the vast majority of games are limited by your GPU under real world usage and SNB's performance increases largely go to waste. While SNB is a great upgrade point for those coming from old machines it seems silly seeing people upgrade from higher end C2Q and Core i Series 1 chips to SNB.

On the other end it also depends if you overclock or not. A Q6600 at 2.4Ghz that isn't being overclocked will probably see a very noticeable difference to a SNB upgrade for gaming, but a Q6600 running at 3.4-3.6Ghz won't see much change. And of course everyone economic state also affects if it's "worth it" or not. If you have money to blow then it's sure exciting to be jumping on SNB and trying to push it towards 5Ghz.

Some games become CPU limited, even with high end AMDs. A 1055T can't run SC2 at 60fps on ultra.

Emulation is another obvious example.

Point is, when you're spending $1000 on a system, it makes more sense to put more money into your CPU. While it may be overkill currently, CPU is a component you will likely keep for the life of your system. GPUs, on the other hand, get surpasses fairly quickly, and you're far more likely to upgrade.

Just look at people who were laughing at those buying the Q6600 when it came out. Yeah, it was pricey, but look how long it has lasted. It's still an extremely capable CPU when overclocked.

 

[mm04]

I did it, and the performance is more or less the same, as expected. The only reason you should is like Theexodus said. Peace of mind, future proofing,etc. Me personally, save it for a SSD. Ram is just going to get cheaper anyway. Buy it if you REALLY want it.

Thanks for the advice. I've been wanting an SSD boot drive, but the prices still aren't where I want them to be to pull the trigger on that.

 

[Ysiadmihi]

Hey guys, I was considering upgrading from my GTX 260 but I'm not sure it's worth it right now since it runs all of my games fine at 1080p. Is there anything I'm missing out on by sticking with it for awhile longer?

 

[Hazaro]

Seriously considering pulling the trigger on a 128GB Crucial C300 - is now a relatively good time or are there new SSD chipset's due within the next couple of months?

In the OP. Right on top.


The Neeeeeeeews:
1/5/2011:
Top Sandy Bridge Reviews: [H]OCP, Anandtech, The Tech Report
Some good P67 board reviews: **TechReport four board round up, Asus P8P67 and P8P67 Pro (Legit Reviews), [H]OCP MSI P67A-GD65
New SSDs incoming: (Feb = Crucial C400), SF-2000 later, Intel G3 sooner?, SF-2000 OCZ Prelim Testing

Hey guys, I was considering upgrading from my GTX 260 but I'm not sure it's worth it right now since it runs all of my games fine at 1080p. Is there anything I'm missing out on by sticking with it for awhile longer?

If you are happy with what you have, don't upgrade. A GTX 560 at the end of January might be a decent upgrade though.

 

[shintoki]

Asked it the other day, anyone help with picking out a lap top. I just want something that can play source titles decently. Doesn't have to be pure gaming.

 

[MisterAnderson]

So I just came across something that might be the answer to my RAM problem (the problem where I couldn't get my system to boot past the Windows screen if I set the RAM speed to XMP profile1, making it jump from 1066Mhz to 1600Mhz)

I found this on some overclocking guide:

One thing to remember as you fumble around the BIOS is that the uncore must run at twice the speed of the system RAM. Here’s where it gets a little confusing. The speed of the uncore is determined by multiplying the uncore multiplier by the base clock. On a Core i7-920 chip, for example, the uncore defaults to 16. The uncore thus is 16 times 133 for a total uncore speed of 2,133MHz or 2.1GHz.

To figure out the RAM speed, you have to take the memory multiplier and multiply it by the base clock. In the case of a Core i7-920 chip, the default memory multiplier is 8. So to determine the main memory speed, multiply 8 by 133 for 1,066MHz. Why aren’t higher DDR3 speeds available? The highest official memory speed of the Core i7 is DDR3/1066. You can overclock your RAM to higher speeds, but depending on the motherboard, the only way to accomplish a memory overclock will be to crank up the base clock for the CPU—unless you own an Extreme Edition CPU.

The take away here is to remember to keep the uncore speed at twice the speed the RAM runs. If you plan to run DDR3/1600, you’ll need to run the uncore at 3,200MHz.

So I basically can only get my memory to run at 1600Mhz unless I overclock my processor to be 3.2GHz?

 

[Felix Lighter]

Peace of mind, mainly. With my 4GB setup, I've gone above 3.5GB quite a few times. For te extra $30-40 it costs to go to 8GB, I think it's hard not to justify it on any $1000+ build.

I wish I could buy a single DIMM of this RAM. When I built my machine I bought the Dual Channel pack instead of the Triple Channel pack even though I have a 1366 i7. It works fine and I understand the performance difference would be unnoticeable, but just the thought of it annoys me.

 

[Schmattakopf]

Is Microcenter still doing that $300 2500k/mobo combo or is it just the 2500k for $180?