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"I need a New PC!" 2013 Part 1. Haswell, Crysis 3, and secret fairy sauce. Read da OP

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M

mrklaw

MrArseFace
lettermassing said:
how viable are mini itx gaming computers this year? i've built a lot of computers before but never a mini itx, i've been thinking about building one soon but the main thing i'm worried about is the psu.
Click to expand...

I7 & Titan in something like a node 304 sounds pretty good

hELaaTM.jpg
Click to expand...
 
kittoo

kittoo

Cretinously credulous
Just one basic question guys.

I was thinking of buying a mobo and a processor. The CPU compatibility list for the mobo says that it supports that particular processor since BIOS 1.30. What does that mean? Does that mean that if the mobo that I buy comes with a bios lower than that (lets say 1.10), I will first need to update the bios to 1.30 and then only will my processor work with that mobo? How will I do that without the processor?
 
K

kharma45

Member
Razor 81 said:
I have 8GB mem installed, is it normal to have system info only show me 6.34GB available??

before it showed me only half.. wtf is going on?
Click to expand...

GPU taking some maybe?

DurielBlack said:
Alright, I have a nice list sitting in the checkout at NewEgg, thinking I'd post this here for suggestions before I pull the trigger.

Thermal Paste
RAM
Monitors x3
OS
MOBO
GPU x2
PSU
CPU
HDD x2
DVD Drive
Heatsink/Fan

I already have a nice case I will be using. Hard disks will be in a redundant RAID setup. No SSD because this is pushing my budget limits and don't care much about load times which seems to be the main reason to have one. Went with the 2gb GPU's over the 4gb because my understanding is that there is very little gain, even from the SLI @ 5760x1080 benchmark reviews I have seen.

Any comments/suggestions would be welcome!
Click to expand...

You don't really need the thermal paste. Swap your PSU to this, it's the same unit but cheaper http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817207028

I'd really recommend an SSD if you're spending that much, they really do make a great difference when using Windows.
 
T

teh_pwn

"Saturated fat causes heart disease as much as Brawndo is what plants crave."
knitoe said:
Artic MX4 is a better thermal paste. You don't need time for it to settle in. There are already games using more than 2GB of VRAM. At the res you will be playing, makes even more sense to get 3GB or more for the video cards. Plus, with next gen console, more games will definitley be using greater than 2GB.

Also, SSD is more then just boot and load times. Using it just for the OS, your computer will feel much more responsive and snappy. For example, clicking your web browser will open instantly, due to ~0 seek time vs 12ms. Spending that much money and not getting one should be a crime.
Click to expand...

I agree. If I were building a rig right now with that budget, I'd make the following changes:
1. SSD 250 GB
2. Single AMD 7970 GHz or equivalent NVidia.

General OS performance from SSD pays dividends. For example, if you play day 1 games that have little bugs that require restarting the game or even OS to find a workaround setting, SSD is awesome. That isn't a requirement for PC gaming...if you want ease of use I'd standardize on buying games 2+ weeks after release. If there's no driver update or game patch, there's usually a gaf thread that spells out what to do.

Then upgrade wise I'd replace the GPU in late 2014 or early 2015. Should be able to get 3x the performance with a $400 GPU then.
 
GHG

GHG

Member
teh_pwn said:
I agree. If I were building a rig right now with that budget, I'd make the following changes:
1. SSD 250 GB
2. Single AMD 7970 GHz or equivalent NVidia.

General OS performance from SSD pays dividends. For example, if you play day 1 games that have little bugs that require restarting the game or even OS to find a workaround setting, SSD is awesome. That isn't a requirement for PC gaming...if you want ease of use I'd standardize on buying games 2+ weeks after release. If there's no driver update or game patch, there's usually a gaf thread that spells out what to do.

Then upgrade wise I'd replace the GPU in late 2014 or early 2015. Should be able to get 3x the performance with a $400 GPU then.
Click to expand...

Agreed on the SSD but he's going for a surround gaming setup. For 3 monitors at 1080p he'll need more grunt than a single 7970 if he wants to max everything out.

I also agree with everyone saying that 2GB isn't going to cut it for much longer.

I would suggest going 3GB 7950 CF or 3GB 660 Ti SLI http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/10/31/galaxy_geforce_gtx_660_ti_gc_3gb_sli_review/1#.UU9aHlebOOI and then using the savings towards an SSD.
 
S

Stop It

Perfectly able to grasp the inherent value of the fishing game.
Razor 81 said:
I have 8GB mem installed, is it normal to have system info only show me 6.34GB available??

before it showed me only half.. wtf is going on?
Click to expand...
What's your rig? It could be an iGPU taking some memory.What OS are you using too?
 
K

kharma45

Member
GHG said:
Agreed on the SSD but he's going for a surround gaming setup. For 3 monitors at 1080p he'll need more grunt than a single 7970 if he wants to max everything out.

I also agree with everyone saying that 2GB isn't going to cut it for much longer.

I would suggest going 3GB 7950 CF or 3GB 660 Ti SLI http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/10/31/galaxy_geforce_gtx_660_ti_gc_3gb_sli_review/1#.UU9aHlebOOI and then using the savings towards an SSD.
Click to expand...

CF isn't great at the minute though, for a multi GPU set up SLI is best

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphi...ance-Review-and-Frame-Rating-Update/Frame-Rat
 
kittoo

kittoo

Cretinously credulous
Guys can someone please answer this?-
kittoo said:
Just one basic question guys.

I was thinking of buying a mobo and a processor. The CPU compatibility list for the mobo says that it supports that particular processor since BIOS 1.30. What does that mean? Does that mean that if the mobo that I buy comes with a bios lower than that (lets say 1.10), I will first need to update the bios to 1.30 and then only will my processor work with that mobo? How will I do that without the processor?
Click to expand...
 
VE3TRO

VE3TRO

Formerly Gizmowned
So regarding overclocking. Does it mainly just come down to the VTT and VCORE? I'm running at 4.5Ghz but I would like to be at 4.8Ghz.

I did a test with the CPU ratio at 48 and when benchmarking it blue screened. I then increased the VCORE from 1.420 to 1.450 and benchmarked again and this time no blue screen. Do I just keep lowering the VCORE now until it's the lowest without locking up?

The maximum temperature was 70c with it averaging at 65c. Does this seem ideal?
 
S

Stop It

Perfectly able to grasp the inherent value of the fishing game.
Razor 81 said:
I'm using windows 7 64bit
asus p8z77
i5 3570k
660ti


cpuz says 8 btw
Click to expand...
Hmm, interesting. What does Task Manager say about your memory situation? I wouldn't worry a great deal as 8GB is enough for most things and even if a GB or so is hiding you're probably still OK but this is a confusing one to me.
 
D

DurielBlack

Member
GHG said:
Agreed on the SSD but he's going for a surround gaming setup. For 3 monitors at 1080p he'll need more grunt than a single 7970 if he wants to max everything out.

I also agree with everyone saying that 2GB isn't going to cut it for much longer.

I would suggest going 3GB 7950 CF or 3GB 660 Ti SLI http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/10/31/galaxy_geforce_gtx_660_ti_gc_3gb_sli_review/1#.UU9aHlebOOI and then using the savings towards an SSD.
Click to expand...

You guys are killing me lol.

Alright. Swapped out the Corsair PSU for the XFX that was suggested.
Swapped out the 670's for 660TI's
This would let me fit an SSD into my budget, as this is my first foray into them, I just picked this Crucial one out of the crowd. Suggestions welcome.
I also dropped one of the HDD's, I can always pick up another later.

Unless anyone thinks I would lose a lot of performance for a surround setup not worth losing just for an SSD by dropping the 670's this is probably what I will go with.
 
kikonawa

kikonawa

Member
kittoo said:
Just one basic question guys.

I was thinking of buying a mobo and a processor. The CPU compatibility list for the mobo says that it supports that particular processor since BIOS 1.30. What does that mean? Does that mean that if the mobo that I buy comes with a bios lower than that (lets say 1.10), I will first need to update the bios to 1.30 and then only will my processor work with that mobo? How will I do that without the processor?
Click to expand...
Often it will work.your cpu wont get recognised but that shouldnt be a problem to boot
 
Celcius

Celcius

°Temp. member
News Bot said:
Is a factory-overclocked GPU worth getting or is it better to just get the base unit and overclock it yourself?
Click to expand...

It's not worth it to pay the price premium for a pre-overclocked card - you'll get much better results from doing it yourself. Often the base cards overclock just as high (if not higher) than pre-overclocked versions.
 
F

friday

Member
friday said:
My current specs are as follows:

AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black edition
ASUS M5A97 EVO AM3+
8 gig of DDR3 ram
Nvidia gtx 560 1Gig
Click to expand...

So, what do you guys think is a good direction for me to take my build? My stock cooler is not keeping CPU temps in check these days so I am planning on buying a Coolermaster 212 evo. With that I can start pushing the clock speed on my CPU, which is at the stock 3.2 still. I think an video card upgrade is definitely in the somewhat near future. I feel like the 1 gig of vram is holding me back.

I would really like to move to an intel CPU but that is not in the cards with my current money situation, so for now I must stick with my current CPU.

What is the current situation with video cards? I have always favored Nvidia because the driver support has always seems far better than what AMD offers. I also heard someone mention that they would take a 660 standard over the TI version, why is this? When I do go to buy a video card I would say my budget will be in the $200-300 range.
 
GHG

GHG

Member
friday said:
So, what do you guys think is a good direction for me to take my build? My stock cooler is not keeping CPU temps in check these days so I am planning on buying a Coolermaster 212 evo. With that I can start pushing the clock speed on my CPU, which is at the stock 3.2 still. I think an video card upgrade is definitely in the somewhat near future. I feel like the 1 gig of vram is holding me back.

I would really like to move to an intel CPU but that is not in the cards with my current money situation, so for now I must stick with my current CPU.

What is the current situation with video cards? I have always favored Nvidia because the driver support has always seems far better than what AMD offers. I also heard someone mention that they would take a 660 standard over the TI version, why is this? When I do go to buy a video card I would say my budget will be in the $200-300 range.
Click to expand...

Get a decent cooler for your CPU, push it up to 3.8Ghz if you can (back when I had my 965 BE that was very much doable with a 212 evo) to remove as much CPU bottleneck as you can.

The driver situation has changed a lot in the last 12 months TBH. AMD seem to be doing a big push in this area at the moment and are working a lot closer with all the PC developers. They've hired a lot of ex Nvidia people who were part of pushing their "the way its meant to be played" drive over the last few years and it seems to be paying dividends. Unless you need something like Physx, then defiantly go AMD if you are going for a single card GPU. Get a 7950 and you'll be set for a while.
 
N

naib

Member
Another guy here looking for help on an upgrade path.

Current setup:
Phenom II x4 965 BE
GA-MA790XT-UD4P
8 gig DDR3
560ti

I'm thinking new mobo and i5 3570K. Maybe even a SSD.
I'd like a mobo w/ decent onboard sound if possible.

I've got about $550(USD) to spend.
 
GHG

GHG

Member
naib said:
Another guy here looking for help on an upgrade path.

Current setup:
Phenom II x4 965 BE
GA-MA790XT-UD4P
8 gig DDR3
560ti

I'm thinking new mobo and i5 3570K. Maybe even a SSD.
I'd like a mobo w/ decent onboard sound if possible.

I've got about $550(USD) to spend.
Click to expand...

Look for motherboards with the Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi chip onboard.

Look for the Gigabyte Sniper range in particular (I have this one, highly recommended). Asrock also have a few mobo's with this same chip integrated and I believe MSI have an upcoming range coming as well with this chip.
 
C

comu

Neo Member
Any problems with these components?
(not for hardcore gaming)


Already got (still unboxed)

£79 - Asus P8Z77-V LX2 LGA1155 Z77 ATX Motherboard

£193 - HD 7870 2GB Gigabyte 1100MHz 1280 Cores 4800MHz GDDR5 28nm GPU 2xDVI HDMI 2xmDP PCI-E 3.0

£40 - Simcity Limited Edition


To buy

i3 3225 Intel Skt 1155 3.3Ghz 3MB Cache Retail CPU - BX80637I33225

1TB 3.5" Western Digital Caviar Black or possibly an RE4 1TB (only £15 difference)
(for RAID1 with a Hitachi 1TB)

250gb - Crucial M4 or Samsung 840 Pro (don't need help, just listing the two that I might buy)

24x Speed DVDRW Samsung DVD+/-RW Sata Black OEM SH-224BB/BEBE

Fractal Design R4 - Should I get an extra fan for it?

PSU - Need help



RAM -

CORSAIR Vengeance 8GB DIMM PC3-12800 1600Mhz Memory RAM KIT - Blue

or

CORSAIR Vengeance LP 8GB DIMM - 8GB PC3-12800 1600Mhz Low Profile Memory RAM KIT - Black

or

CORSAIR Vengeance LP 8GB DIMM PC3-12800 1600Mhz Memory RAM KIT - Blue

or

CORSAIR Vengeance 8GB DIMM 8GB PC3-12800 1600Mhz Memory RAM LP KIT Black


They are all pretty much the same price
 
M

MarshMellow96

Member
I've narrowed a monitor down to the following:

Asus VG248QE

BenQ XL2411T

Reading about them, it seems like they're pretty similar. Is there anything extra you're getting with the Asus for £280?
 
R

ruxtpin

Banned
alright... So I'm considering making the jump and wanted to go with a smaller tower.

So I've got the following planned out so far -

CPU: Intel Core i7 3770 3.4GHz 3rd Gen
Motherboard: MSI Z77MA-G45 Intel Z77 (mATX)
Memory: 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3 1600MHz
Storage: 240GB SSD
Storage: Something cheap...
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 680 w/ Backplate 4GB GDDR5
Case: Silverstone Temjin TJ08B-E
Power Supply: Corsair HX650 650 Watt Power Supply
Optical Drive: Something cheap...
Total: N/A

My questions are:
a.) Would this setup let me play current PC games on high/ultra-high?
b.) Any special considerations I need to take when using a mATX form factor motherboard?
c.) I was just doing a very quick run through and putting something together that met Bioshock Infinite's recommended specs; anything glaring that I might have missed? (I have monitors, keyboard, mouse and all that crap.)
 
M

M3z_

Member
I have two 3Dmark Advanced Edition benchmark codes for sale if any of you are interested in them. $10 a piece, or $15 for both.

hB6HCkHl.jpg
 
K

kharma45

Member
comu said:
Any problems with these components?
(not for hardcore gaming)


Already got (still unboxed)

£79 - Asus P8Z77-V LX2 LGA1155 Z77 ATX Motherboard

£193 - HD 7870 2GB Gigabyte 1100MHz 1280 Cores 4800MHz GDDR5 28nm GPU 2xDVI HDMI 2xmDP PCI-E 3.0

£40 - Simcity Limited Edition


To buy

i3 3225 Intel Skt 1155 3.3Ghz 3MB Cache Retail CPU - BX80637I33225

1TB 3.5" Western Digital Caviar Black or possibly an RE4 1TB (only £15 difference)
(for RAID1 with a Hitachi 1TB)

250gb - Crucial M4 or Samsung 840 Pro (don't need help, just listing the two that I might buy)

24x Speed DVDRW Samsung DVD+/-RW Sata Black OEM SH-224BB/BEBE

Fractal Design R4 - Should I get an extra fan for it?

PSU - Need help



RAM -

CORSAIR Vengeance 8GB DIMM PC3-12800 1600Mhz Memory RAM KIT - Blue

or

CORSAIR Vengeance LP 8GB DIMM - 8GB PC3-12800 1600Mhz Low Profile Memory RAM KIT - Black

or

CORSAIR Vengeance LP 8GB DIMM PC3-12800 1600Mhz Memory RAM KIT - Blue

or

CORSAIR Vengeance 8GB DIMM 8GB PC3-12800 1600Mhz Memory RAM LP KIT Black


They are all pretty much the same price
Click to expand...

It's probably a hassle to DSR but the 7870 I'd have swapped for a 7870 XT.

If this RAM is the same price as the others get it http://www.cclonline.com/product/84...800C11-1600MHz-30nm-Dual-Channel-Kit/RAM0612/ if not go for one of the low profile Corsair's.

I'd try to get an i5 too if you can work it in your budget. What sort of money do you have set aside for the PSU? Want it to be modular?

ruxtpin said:
alright... So I'm considering making the jump and wanted to go with a smaller tower.

So I've got the following planned out so far -

CPU: Intel Core i7 3770 3.4GHz 3rd Gen
Motherboard: MSI Z77MA-G45 Intel Z77 (mATX)
Memory: 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3 1600MHz
Storage: 240GB SSD
Storage: Something cheap...
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 680 w/ Backplate 4GB GDDR5
Case: Silverstone Temjin TJ08B-E
Power Supply: Corsair HX650 650 Watt Power Supply
Optical Drive: Something cheap...
Total: N/A

My questions are:
a.) Would this setup let me play current PC games on high/ultra-high?
b.) Any special considerations I need to take when using a mATX form factor motherboard?
c.) I was just doing a very quick run through and putting something together that met Bioshock Infinite's recommended specs; anything glaring that I might have missed? (I have monitors, keyboard, mouse and all that crap.)
Click to expand...

1. Yes
2. Just make sure there won't be any space issues. Quality can vary a lot too afaik, and I don't know how well rated that MSI one is so I can't really comment on it.
3. Right I'd change a few things here. Change the 3770 to a 3770K, add in a decent cooler to overclock it and change the PSU to something like the Seasonic G 550, it's cheaper and it's the exact same unit as that HX just with a lower power output, but you'll not need more than it offers for a single GPU. Also available for $10 more than that Corsair is the Seasonic X 750 which is one of the best units on the market. It offers up a fully modular PSU, four video card connectors, higher efficiency and better voltage regulation.

No need for an optical drive either.
 
GHG

GHG

Member
ruxtpin said:
alright... So I'm considering making the jump and wanted to go with a smaller tower.

So I've got the following planned out so far -

CPU: Intel Core i7 3770 3.4GHz 3rd Gen
Motherboard: MSI Z77MA-G45 Intel Z77 (mATX)
Memory: 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3 1600MHz
Storage: 240GB SSD
Storage: Something cheap...
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 680 w/ Backplate 4GB GDDR5
Case: Silverstone Temjin TJ08B-E
Power Supply: Corsair HX650 650 Watt Power Supply
Optical Drive: Something cheap...
Total: N/A

My questions are:
a.) Would this setup let me play current PC games on high/ultra-high?
b.) Any special considerations I need to take when using a mATX form factor motherboard?
c.) I was just doing a very quick run through and putting something together that met Bioshock Infinite's recommended specs; anything glaring that I might have missed? (I have monitors, keyboard, mouse and all that crap.)
Click to expand...

a) Depends on what your resolution is. If its 1440p and below then yes.
b) Not really. You'll have less sata ports for adding more HDD's in the future than you would with a standard ATX board, but would you need more than 4 slots anyway?
c) Doesn't look like it, but get the k version of the 3770 so that you have the flexibility of overclocking in the future if you want to. Are you sticking with the stock intel cooler as well?
 
Celcius

Celcius

°Temp. member
ruxtpin said:
alright... So I'm considering making the jump and wanted to go with a smaller tower.

So I've got the following planned out so far -

CPU: Intel Core i7 3770 3.4GHz 3rd Gen
Motherboard: MSI Z77MA-G45 Intel Z77 (mATX)
Memory: 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3 1600MHz
Storage: 240GB SSD
Storage: Something cheap...
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 680 w/ Backplate 4GB GDDR5
Case: Silverstone Temjin TJ08B-E
Power Supply: Corsair HX650 650 Watt Power Supply
Optical Drive: Something cheap...
Total: N/A

My questions are:
a.) Would this setup let me play current PC games on high/ultra-high?
b.) Any special considerations I need to take when using a mATX form factor motherboard?
c.) I was just doing a very quick run through and putting something together that met Bioshock Infinite's recommended specs; anything glaring that I might have missed? (I have monitors, keyboard, mouse and all that crap.)
Click to expand...

I'd definitely recommend getting the 3770K version of the cpu. Also, do you plan to use the stock cpu cooler?

edit: beaten lol
 
T

Ty4on

Member
Gizmowned said:
So regarding overclocking. Does it mainly just come down to the VTT and VCORE? I'm running at 4.5Ghz but I would like to be at 4.8Ghz.

I did a test with the CPU ratio at 48 and when benchmarking it blue screened. I then increased the VCORE from 1.420 to 1.450 and benchmarked again and this time no blue screen. Do I just keep lowering the VCORE now until it's the lowest without locking up?

The maximum temperature was 70c with it averaging at 65c. Does this seem ideal?
Click to expand...

I'm not the person to ask for overclocking tips, my experience comes from reading way too many other peoples experience :p

On socket 2011 you can overclock with the base clock as well and maybe squeeze a bit more performance, but 4.8Ghz is great as 5Ghz is usually the highest (I at at least see) for Sandy Bridge. 70C as the hottest core is also great, but that should be after a half an hour or so of load with any water cooling ;)
 
C

cpp_is_king

Member
Razor 81 said:
This
Click to expand...

The numbers that Windows reports for memory usage don't always mean what you think they mean, and can be very hard to decipher. In short: Don't try to add/subtract the various numbers you see and compare them against the number that you think they should add/subtract up to.

Windows is telling you that the Total is 8147, and that's all you need to know. Everything is working fine
 
R

ruxtpin

Banned
celcius said:
I'd definitely recommend getting the 3770K version of the cpu. Also, do you plan to use the stock cpu cooler?

edit: beaten lol
Click to expand...

Thanks for the responses. I realized that after going to eat; I'd definitely try to go with a bigger cooler, what with the high-end graphics card and limited space.
 
C

comu

Neo Member
kharma45 said:
It's probably a hassle to DSR but the 7870 I'd have swapped for a 7870 XT.

If this RAM is the same price as the others get it http://www.cclonline.com/product/84...800C11-1600MHz-30nm-Dual-Channel-Kit/RAM0612/ if not go for one of the low profile Corsair's.

I'd try to get an i5 too if you can work it in your budget. What sort of money do you have set aside for the PSU? Want it to be modular?
Click to expand...

I might get an i5, haven't fully decided yet.

There is a £12 difference between the Samsung RAM and the ones that I mentioned. I'm happy to go with the Samsung, but what is the difference?

PSU - I can go for around £50-60. Are these OK?

http://www.yoyotech.co.uk/antec-hcg...es-520w-modular-power-supply-0-761345-06211-4

http://www.yoyotech.co.uk/ocz-ocz500mxsp-500w-modxstream-modular-power-supply

Will the cables be long enough for the R4?


Thanks for your help
 
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