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IGN Posts Up More Project Cafe Hardware Power Rumors
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
F#A#Oo said:
I do not want the Cafe to be a Wii simply overclocked. Or rather, I do not want the Cafe to be a GAMECUBE OVERCLOCKED AGAIN. Even if by some foresight I knew it would not impede the Cafe from being #1 again and save Nintendo tons of money and shoot, perhaps lead to a cheaper console for me. I do not mind spending the extra $100 or $150 for more advanced hardware capable of more. I love to speculate about specs because it gives a good idea of what to expect from the performance of the machine.
F#A#Oo said:
As far as I understand it, it's more a matter of rational expectations than ego : they didn't bet on wii after the GC failure, then they developed more AAA games for the HD twins because of the equation wii=family (cheap) games, HD= High budget.
It's true most of them did not even try with the wii, but that was because they did not really understand how the blue ocean strategy could help them selling more than a crapton of Carnival games.
Dynamite Ringo Matsuri
Member
Lmao. Loving the DBZ jokes on page one! Really glad to read this news too. I'd be pretty disappointed inside if the Cafe was just on par with PS3 at reveal. Let's hope Nintendo don't gimp the RAM thoughAceBandage said:
Dynamite Ringo Matsuri said:Lmao. Loving the DBZ jokes on page one! Really glad to read this news too. I'd be pretty disappointed inside if the Cafe was just on par with PS3 at reveal. Let's hope Nintendo don't gimp the RAM though
Yea, that would deflate my erection instantly let me tell you.
...going from an overclocked gamecube to something 4x Xenos if rumors be true
*dreams of F-Zero*
This is not true. Many third party publishers are just taking a big risk just a different risk that Nintendo takes. Just look at Rockstar/Take2 they cash in every time one of their AAA super hyped titles with 4+ years in development ships on 2 or 3 platforms.F#A#Oo said:
So your point would've made sense in 2006 but right now the market has changed and Nintendo sees that. They can't pull off the same trick again because the casual market is just as crowded as the hardcore market at this point. Microsoft is trying to get the casual market with Kinect and Nintendo simply has to aim at both markets as well. They can't do that on their own so they need those what you call "ego's".
The Wii software market was just way to unpredictable outside of Nintendo's own titles no one knew what would actually sell and Nintendo had kept everyone out of the loop for a long time(including studios close to them like Factor 5). A game like No More Heroes could do 250k while Dead Space Extraction wouldn't even pass 100k. The Wii couldn't handle ports of Assassins Creed and the likes so a Wii Assassins Creed would have to be build from the ground up for the system.
The DS shows(at least when it comes to Japanese devs) that Nintendo can keep third parties involved and that they need both strong first and third party support. Games like Dragon Quest were as vital to the DS's success as New Super Mario Bros. was.
Eteric Rice
Member
I just realized that having a controllers that each have a screen means we can get multiplayer 3D platformers. :O
fredrancour
Member
i feel like that's what the publishers thought, but always got the impression that developers themselves would, if asked, say no to the wii because they (probably) were more sympathetic to the hi-tech trend and didn't want games to be fundamentally different. I don't know if this is/was wild conjecture on my part or not. I didn't start thinking of games in business terms until about halfway through this gen so examples aren't leaping to mind, just stereotypes.stilgar said:
Eteric Rice
Member
Log4Girlz said:And you would want that because.....
Imagine playing a 3D platformer like Galaxy where you and your friends work together to progress. Kind of like a 3D LBP.
Eteric Rice
Member
Log4Girlz said:
Four player Pikmin, where each player has to build, break down, and time things to help each other progress across a level.
It would be pretty awesome imo.
[Nintex] said:
Tbh if one bought a Wii with the expectation of seeing ports of PS3/360 games than they deserve to be disappointed...Nintendo made it pretty clear when they announced specs that porting would stupid...smart developers would have understood that the only way to go was to make "from the ground up" games...
NMH is my favourite third-party game on the Wii (2 not so much though)...I didn't really think much of Extraction tbh...and I'm glad it was a failure tbh...as I feel it's a lazy attempt at catering to Wii owners in such a stereotypical way.
Factor 5 have only themselves to blame...Lair was their undoing not Nintendo...had they stuck it out with Nintendo they would still be around now and developing "average/good" to "excellent" games...
Indeed the DS shows what games can be made if developers step up to the challenge...
Eteric Rice said:
the screen is better for things that a player needs to see, but doesn't want others to see.
In the case where you just want to walk somewhere on a map like that, just split the TV into half/quarters. TVs in the home are getting larger, and on a 1080p 40"TV your quarter will still be larger and higher res than on the controller.
didn't pikmin 2 let you play coop with a single screen, and if you walk away from the other play it split it? That'd be fine
Eteric Rice said:
No no no, 4 player Pikmin when each player must fight for resources with the others, in a team buddies meets Pikmin style.
Local competitive RTS is what makes me so excited for this controller, if it is in fact the main controller, I have a funny feeling there will be only one per console and the main controller will be an upgraded Wiimote/nunchuck.
Can totally see co-op 3D Mario though.
brain_stew
Member
gofreak said:
High performance, yes, bleeding edge, no. They could have been leading A15 and Series 6 licensees given the timeframe but chose not to be, even though that sort of strategy would have been less risky than their traditional aproach which was to build their own silicon. It marks a very clear change in their approach towards hardware development and would point towards the PS3 taking a very similar approach to Cafe, only adjusted for their timeframe, of course. So something like a slightly customised 6950, a slightly beefed up Cell and 2GB of RAM should be the sort of ballpark that people should be expecting imo.
brain_stew
Member
EatChildren said:
Their reason is simple, it doesn't meet their minimum specification and it doesn't, case closed.
Cafe does, which is why the engine will already be up and running on the system.
brain_stew
Member
Mr_Brit said:
If this strategy sounds familiar, then it should because it appears to be exactly the approach Nintendo are taking with Cafe.
brain_stew
Member
EVH said:
UE4 appears to be on indefeinate hiatus until the PS5 generation. It was supposed to be based around software rendering but the sort of resources they were going to need just don't appear to be going to show up on consoles next generation.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Today I learned I can be wrong about things. It's a frightening realisation, and I thank those that participated in putting me in my place. I guess I can only be right about nearly everything .
As for that chart, I'm gong with No. 2, simply because I'm very cynical about things.
.As for that chart, I'm gong with No. 2, simply because I'm very cynical about things.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
Kjellson said:
When third parties get up to 88 megabytes... you're gonna see some serious shit.Lonely1 said:
AceBandage
Banned
brain_stew said:
Unless Epic bites the bullet and makes a scaled down version of it for consoles. I dunno if they will. Probably just upgrade UE3 and resell it.
Imagine a 3D Mario Bros. platformer all about co-operative acrobatics i.e. linking up jumps and spins and what not to get the team to the required destination?
You could design the levels so that only a certain number of players could follow a certain path, maybe due to weight or because certain combinations of characters can reach higher places or whatever it may be. That way the game can be played in single player without having to have a CPU controlled Luigi or something.. Perhaps a few well placed toads and flowers like in Jungle Beat could allow players to explore if they wanted to.
It'd be better in so many ways, it'd be multiplayer for starters but also; the different routes in the levels would allow for lots of re-playability, the acrobatic nature of the multiplayer would be a big innovation in the core gameplay while still retaining the basic Mario gameplay we all know and love, it'd actually make sense in terms of the design of the new console (each player would need their own screen to keep track of all the acrobatics and to follow each player depending on where they are in the level).
I want Nintendo to innovate in a way that makes sense, they've always played to the systems strengths, I'm not expecting this exact concept but I do expect nothing less than for them to blow me away with their number one franchise.
You could design the levels so that only a certain number of players could follow a certain path, maybe due to weight or because certain combinations of characters can reach higher places or whatever it may be. That way the game can be played in single player without having to have a CPU controlled Luigi or something.. Perhaps a few well placed toads and flowers like in Jungle Beat could allow players to explore if they wanted to.
It'd be better in so many ways, it'd be multiplayer for starters but also; the different routes in the levels would allow for lots of re-playability, the acrobatic nature of the multiplayer would be a big innovation in the core gameplay while still retaining the basic Mario gameplay we all know and love, it'd actually make sense in terms of the design of the new console (each player would need their own screen to keep track of all the acrobatics and to follow each player depending on where they are in the level).
I want Nintendo to innovate in a way that makes sense, they've always played to the systems strengths, I'm not expecting this exact concept but I do expect nothing less than for them to blow me away with their number one franchise.
AniHawk said:
They are more creative than I, I will admit.
brain_stew said:
Can't wait for the discussion on this one.
JoshuaJSlone said:
If they hit 88 MB will they travel back in time and....sorry bad attempt at a back to the future joke. Wait isn't the Wii 1999 tech. AAAHHHH
Holy Order Sol
Member
JoshuaJSlone said:
Okay that was hilarious.
It's seems so odd talking about Cafe being underpowered in comparison to non-existent machines.
Live for the moment. Again, out of the three manufacturers, Nintendo has the ability to upgrade and expand their platform given the good fortune they're experiencing.
I don't think that will be necessary because 3rd parties will either adopt the platform or denounce it and they can't use power as a reason this time around- it'll be based solely on it being a Nintendo product.
That's the most interesting aspect to me- whether 3rd parties will put up or shut up regarding development on it. It's going to be an interesting couple of years
Live for the moment. Again, out of the three manufacturers, Nintendo has the ability to upgrade and expand their platform given the good fortune they're experiencing.
I don't think that will be necessary because 3rd parties will either adopt the platform or denounce it and they can't use power as a reason this time around- it'll be based solely on it being a Nintendo product.
That's the most interesting aspect to me- whether 3rd parties will put up or shut up regarding development on it. It's going to be an interesting couple of years
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
brain_stew said:
I always miss your posts these days because you don't have an avatar. You should get one so I have an easy way of working out which posts are worth reading on each page.
orioto said:
Nintendo Magic *facepalm*
Judging from what we've actually seen in their modern development, Nintendo is actually fairly inept in regards to applying new modern technological standards. So, if we do see anything that is remotely new in terms of graphical effects, it almost certainly won't be from them.
Also, nothing in Super Mario Galaxy was "totally out of nowhere" in terms of tech. I'm not even sure how you came to that conclusion. It was intelligent use of the limitations of Wii technology (space allowing conservative use of geometry floating out in 'nothing', essentially) coupled with rather rudimentary techniques like rim lighting. It didn't even have next-gen shaders everywhere... just some bump mapping. What do you see in Mario Galaxy that is remarkable? It looks nice for a Wii game but I'm not sure what you mean.
In any event... the N64 came out during a period where PC and console tech equality was still the relative norm for gaming, so a WaveRace 64 scenario is not going to happen again. When Stream comes out it'll be absolutely devastated by top tier PC gaming technology, same as when PS4 and XBox 720 come out. Developers are familiar with the high end technology and therefore it is extremely unlikely that they'll come up with anything we don't know about utilizing modified HD 4850 technology. That's not that special at all. There won't be any surprises as developers have been toying with these technologies for years.
It is just not going to be something we haven't seen before, is all. When we see the games, you'll be able to immediately put a name to the effects on display.
G'night again.
GAF A60-Rim A
Banned
I guarantee that if Nintendo did this, they would introduce a new power-up or device that would aid the co-operative acrobatic platforming.Caramello said:
Like a trampoline hat or something.
Nintendo will struggle hugely intially with the Wii 2, there's no doubt in my mind when it comes to that. It will take years for them to catch up to third parties if it ever happens and this may mean that third party games may be more competitive on Wii 2 as they'll have the technological edge over Nintendo.Amir0x said:
brain_stew
Member
AmFreak said:
Mobile SOC companies are notoriously slow at execution. Nvidia have only just entered the game but they're already a year ahead of everyone else on execution. If Sony were a lead partner from the start they could have made it happen in time for a late 2011 launch imo.
Don't worry about that, Nintendo would have to actively set out to sabotage their games for them to look like Wii games in Dolphin. Just the fact that they'll be able to implement non PS2 textures will make a huge difference never mind all the lighting and shading effects they'll now be able to do.Log4Girlz said:
Their initial games won't look too good in comparison to third parties but they'll still look far ahead of their Wii games in HD.
Grampa Simpson
Banned
I'm going to go with a #3, but then so will be the PS420... So technically it will be a 5, but not in the way one would hope.EatChildren said:
Log4Girlz said:
Judging by current rumours, it's likely to be somewhere between 3 and 4 (probably closer to 4).
Here's a quick spec comparison of the Radeon 4850 GPU with the XBox 360's Xenos GPU:
This should only serve as a very rough guide to relative power, as, even if the Cafe GPU is based on the 4850, it could have any number of changes compared to the PC GPU, such as a smaller fabrication process, a higher clock speed, or added features like the Xenos's 10Mb of eDRAM.
Regarding the CPU, you have to take into account that, if the Cafe is backwards compatible with the Wii (which is very likely, especially as they're sticking with an IBM PowerPC processor and an ATI GPU), then the CPU is almost certainly an out-of-order processor. This would mean that, even with the same clock speed and number of cores, it would be significantly faster than the XBox 360 CPU for many applications. It wouldn't make much of a difference for heavily linear code like physics simulation, but would be a huge improvement when it comes to AI, and many aspects of game logic. If there's a modest speedbump over the XBox 360 CPU, a larger cache, and an improved architecture (probably a stripped-down POWER7), then we'd be looking at a much more powerful processor overall.
RAM is hard to judge. There'll be at least twice as much RAM as the XBox 360, perhaps more, and probably quite fast. Not much more we can say at this stage, really.
It's also worth considering that, the last time Nintendo actually tried to produce a powerful console (the Gamecube), they did an incredibly good job of designing it, producing a machine that was significantly cheaper to make than the XBox, but was still powerful enough for games like Rogue Leader (and easy enough to program for that Rogue Leader was there near launch). It's very unlikely that they'll do anything stupid when designing Cafe, like a significant mismatch in capability between the CPU/GPU/RAM.
Furthermore, people shouldn't be expecting every game to run at 1080p. Even if the console's capable of it (very likely), most devs will stick with 720p for the simple reason that the considerable majority of TVs are 720p. Might as well squeeze as much as possible out of the console at 720p, rather than have to trade off a lower framerate/fewer effects/etc. to render at a resolution that most TVs don't support.
Personally, I'm most interested in those 160 VFPUs. Nintendo made arguably the best cel-shaded visuals ever (Wind Waker), but the Gamecube and Wii were fairly gimped in terms of shader capabilities, so I'd love to see what they can do with a far more capable GPU. (I'd give any amount of money for a 3D Yoshi's Island sequel with crayon-drawing style graphics made by the Mario Galaxy team)
Hot Coldman
Banned
A 3D co-op platformer involving any sort of regular collaborative movement- as opposed to, say, I'mma gonna stand here, you can jump on my back, then I'll throw you- sounds like hell on earth. I can barely trust people to fire Portals in the right place, never mind jump when I need them to and catch me or whatever. Only in Hollywood movies do normal people always make pitch perfect jumps and catches and shit, in real life you fucking die because we're all incompetent.
ReyVGM
Member
Amir0x said:
You know what I would love? A WaveRace adventure-ish game. I love the crystal clear waters and waves, I love jet-skiing over them, I love weather changes... but I hate the racing.
I would love to be able to break free from the track and just explore around an island in my jetski. Maybe entering a few caves which you have to get out off before the tide increases. Maybe venturing far into the ocean, you look down and it's full of sharks! Yikes! Maybe catching a glimpse of a sunken ship or just a huge fucking hole in the ocean.
I guess what I would love is this: Wave Ware + Endless Ocean + Adventure game.
Hot Coldman
Banned
Krev said:
:O
I do want it! I just want it to work. And I believe strongly that it wouldn't. It'd be either a rock-hard game, or the co-operative elements would be softened to the point where the difference between playing with an AI partner or a human partner would be negligible. Ice Climber would be a good game to attempt such a thing with, but I don't believe the 3D platformer is something you can make into a pure co-op title.
AceBandage
Banned
Thraktor said:Judging by current rumours, it's likely to be somewhere between 3 and 4 (probably closer to 4).
Here's a quick spec comparison of the Radeon 4850 GPU with the XBox 360's Xenos GPU:
This should only serve as a very rough guide to relative power, as, even if the Cafe GPU is based on the 4850, it could have any number of changes compared to the PC GPU, such as a smaller fabrication process, a higher clock speed, or added features like the Xenos's 10Mb of eDRAM.
Regarding the CPU, you have to take into account that, if the Cafe is backwards compatible with the Wii (which is very likely, especially as they're sticking with an IBM PowerPC processor and an ATI GPU), then the CPU is almost certainly an out-of-order processor. This would mean that, even with the same clock speed and number of cores, it would be significantly faster than the XBox 360 CPU for many applications. It wouldn't make much of a difference for heavily linear code like physics simulation, but would be a huge improvement when it comes to AI, and many aspects of game logic. If there's a modest speedbump over the XBox 360 CPU, a larger cache, and an improved architecture (probably a stripped-down POWER7), then we'd be looking at a much more powerful processor overall.
RAM is hard to judge. There'll be at least twice as much RAM as the XBox 360, perhaps more, and probably quite fast. Not much more we can say at this stage, really.
It's also worth considering that, the last time Nintendo actually tried to produce a powerful console (the Gamecube), they did an incredibly good job of designing it, producing a machine that was significantly cheaper to make than the XBox, but was still powerful enough for games like Rogue Leader (and easy enough to program for that Rogue Leader was there near launch). It's very unlikely that they'll do anything stupid when designing Cafe, like a significant mismatch in capability between the CPU/GPU/RAM.
Furthermore, people shouldn't be expecting every game to run at 1080p. Even if the console's capable of it (very likely), most devs will stick with 720p for the simple reason that the considerable majority of TVs are 720p. Might as well squeeze as much as possible out of the console at 720p, rather than have to trade off a lower framerate/fewer effects/etc. to render at a resolution that most TVs don't support.
Personally, I'm most interested in those 800 unified shaders. Nintendo made arguably the best cel-shaded visuals ever (Wind Waker), but the Gamecube and Wii were fairly gimped in terms of shader capabilities, so I'd love to see what they can do with a far more capable GPU. (I'd give any amount of money for a 3D Yoshi's Island sequel with crayon-drawing style graphics made by the Mario Galaxy team)
A+