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[pestul]

Judging by current rumours, it's likely to be somewhere between 3 and 4 (probably closer to 4).

Here's a quick spec comparison of the Radeon 4850 GPU with the XBox 360's Xenos GPU:

This should only serve as a very rough guide to relative power, as, even if the Cafe GPU is based on the 4850, it could have any number of changes compared to the PC GPU, such as a smaller fabrication process, a higher clock speed, or added features like the Xenos's 10Mb of eDRAM.

Regarding the CPU, you have to take into account that, if the Cafe is backwards compatible with the Wii (which is very likely, especially as they're sticking with an IBM PowerPC processor and an ATI GPU), then the CPU is almost certainly an out-of-order processor. This would mean that, even with the same clock speed and number of cores, it would be significantly faster than the XBox 360 CPU for many applications. It wouldn't make much of a difference for heavily linear code like physics simulation, but would be a huge improvement when it comes to AI, and many aspects of game logic. If there's a modest speedbump over the XBox 360 CPU, a larger cache, and an improved architecture (probably a stripped-down POWER7), then we'd be looking at a much more powerful processor overall.

RAM is hard to judge. There'll be at least twice as much RAM as the XBox 360, perhaps more, and probably quite fast. Not much more we can say at this stage, really.

It's also worth considering that, the last time Nintendo actually tried to produce a powerful console (the Gamecube), they did an incredibly good job of designing it, producing a machine that was significantly cheaper to make than the XBox, but was still powerful enough for games like Rogue Leader (and easy enough to program for that Rogue Leader was there near launch). It's very unlikely that they'll do anything stupid when designing Cafe, like a significant mismatch in capability between the CPU/GPU/RAM.

Furthermore, people shouldn't be expecting every game to run at 1080p. Even if the console's capable of it (very likely), most devs will stick with 720p for the simple reason that the considerable majority of TVs are 720p. Might as well squeeze as much as possible out of the console at 720p, rather than have to trade off a lower framerate/fewer effects/etc. to render at a resolution that most TVs don't support.

Personally, I'm most interested in those 800 unified shaders. Nintendo made arguably the best cel-shaded visuals ever (Wind Waker), but the Gamecube and Wii were fairly gimped in terms of shader capabilities, so I'd love to see what they can do with a far more capable GPU. (I'd give any amount of money for a 3D Yoshi's Island sequel with crayon-drawing style graphics made by the Mario Galaxy team)

Great comparison here..

 

[apana]

Nintendo will struggle hugely intially with the Wii 2, there's no doubt in my mind when it comes to that. It will take years for them to catch up to third parties if it ever happens and this may mean that third party games may be more competitive on Wii 2 as they'll have the technological edge over Nintendo.

Whether they struggle or not I doubt the look of their games will make any difference to most of the audience who buys Mario, Zelda, Donkey Kong etc.

 

[Ventron]

Furthermore, people shouldn't be expecting every game to run at 1080p. Even if the console's capable of it (very likely), most devs will stick with 720p for the simple reason that the considerable majority of TVs are 720p. Might as well squeeze as much as possible out of the console at 720p, rather than have to trade off a lower framerate/fewer effects/etc. to render at a resolution that most TVs don't support.

Perhaps a bigger reason, probably not applicable with Cafe but definitely for 360, is because the hardware is unable to scale down 1080p pictures to a 480p signal. It can scale 720p down and up, so if a dev writes for 720p it is one codebase that can run on any TV.

 

[AceBandage]

I don't think Nintendo will struggle as much as people think with the new hardware.
Even if it doesn't follow their strategy of building the hardware around what they want first, like they did with all their other systems, they still have some of the most talented art designers in the business, and can easily hide their flaws with it.

 

[Durante]

That "Unified Shaders" (bad name btw.) comparison is misleading.

Xenos has 48 VFPUs each of which can do 5 FMADs per clock.
A 4850 has 160 equivalent units.

So the comparison should either be 48 to 160 or 240 to 800, depending on how much you buy AMDs marketing.
Or maybe even simply 3 to 10 (Xenos has 3 16-wide SIMD units, 4850 has 10).

 

[From The Dust]

Thinking about Super Mario Cafe, I find hard to think of what would improve a game with solid colors. I guess more objects on screen to allow a larger variety. With better shader support, I'm sure hey will think of something. But without examples, it's hard for me to think of what it will look like

 

[Hot Coldman]

Thinking about Super Mario Cafe, I find hard to think of what would improve a game with solid colors. I guess more objects on screen to allow a larger variety. With better shader support, I'm sure hey will think of something. But without examples, it's hard for me to think of what it will look like

Bigger Goombas. I want the next Giant World to be Shadow of the Colossus with Koopas and ? blocks and shit

 

[apana]

Thinking about Super Mario Cafe, I find hard to think of what would improve a game with solid colors. I guess more objects on screen to allow a larger variety. With better shader support, I'm sure hey will think of something. But without examples, it's hard for me to think of what it will look like

You could make much bigger worlds. Also please refrain from calling it Super Mario Cafe.

 

[Caramello]

Judging by current rumours, it's likely to be somewhere between 3 and 4 (probably closer to 4).

Here's a quick spec comparison of the Radeon 4850 GPU with the XBox 360's Xenos GPU:

This should only serve as a very rough guide to relative power, as, even if the Cafe GPU is based on the 4850, it could have any number of changes compared to the PC GPU, such as a smaller fabrication process, a higher clock speed, or added features like the Xenos's 10Mb of eDRAM.

Regarding the CPU, you have to take into account that, if the Cafe is backwards compatible with the Wii (which is very likely, especially as they're sticking with an IBM PowerPC processor and an ATI GPU), then the CPU is almost certainly an out-of-order processor. This would mean that, even with the same clock speed and number of cores, it would be significantly faster than the XBox 360 CPU for many applications. It wouldn't make much of a difference for heavily linear code like physics simulation, but would be a huge improvement when it comes to AI, and many aspects of game logic. If there's a modest speedbump over the XBox 360 CPU, a larger cache, and an improved architecture (probably a stripped-down POWER7), then we'd be looking at a much more powerful processor overall.

RAM is hard to judge. There'll be at least twice as much RAM as the XBox 360, perhaps more, and probably quite fast. Not much more we can say at this stage, really.

It's also worth considering that, the last time Nintendo actually tried to produce a powerful console (the Gamecube), they did an incredibly good job of designing it, producing a machine that was significantly cheaper to make than the XBox, but was still powerful enough for games like Rogue Leader (and easy enough to program for that Rogue Leader was there near launch). It's very unlikely that they'll do anything stupid when designing Cafe, like a significant mismatch in capability between the CPU/GPU/RAM.

Furthermore, people shouldn't be expecting every game to run at 1080p. Even if the console's capable of it (very likely), most devs will stick with 720p for the simple reason that the considerable majority of TVs are 720p. Might as well squeeze as much as possible out of the console at 720p, rather than have to trade off a lower framerate/fewer effects/etc. to render at a resolution that most TVs don't support.

Personally, I'm most interested in those 800 unified shaders. Nintendo made arguably the best cel-shaded visuals ever (Wind Waker), but the Gamecube and Wii were fairly gimped in terms of shader capabilities, so I'd love to see what they can do with a far more capable GPU. (I'd give any amount of money for a 3D Yoshi's Island sequel with crayon-drawing style graphics made by the Mario Galaxy team)

And for those who keep speaking about that list of likely outcomes 1, 2, 3... 5 etc:

TRANSISTORS

XBOX: 63M
360: 232M/337M (with eDRAM)
4850: 956M

CLOCK SPEEDS

XBOX: 233MHz
360: 500MHz
4850: 625MHz

GFLOPS

XBOX: ~76
360: 240
4850: 1000

Can't find any other comparison numbers.. In terms of those numbers though, this console won't just be a small bump over what the XBOX 360 can do. Something closer to number 4 is likely, especially with Nintendo tweaking the design.

 

[AceBandage]

I think that making a Mario game with a completely integrated and seemless world the size of Just Cause 2 would be perfect.
It would contain dozens of different settings that you could travel to easily.

 

[Hot Coldman]

I think that making a Mario game with a completely integrated and seemless world the size of Just Cause 2 would be perfect.
It would contain dozens of different settings that you could travel to easily.

I'd rather have a Sonic game like that, to be honest. Would be a good way to show his speed at least.

 

[Thraktor]

That "Unified Shaders" (bad name btw.) comparison is misleading.

Xenos has 48 VFPUs each of which can do 5 FMADs per clock.
A 4850 has 160 equivalent units.

So the comparison should either be 48 to 160 or 240 to 800, depending on how much you buy AMDs marketing.
Or maybe even simply 3 to 10 (Xenos has 3 16-wide SIMD units, 4850 has 10).

Thanks. I changed the table to fix this.

 

[From The Dust]

You could make much bigger worlds. Also please refrain from calling it Super Mario Cafe.

Until it gets an official name, it will always be Super Mario Cafe to me

 

[Retro]

Until it gets an official name, it will always be Super Mario Cafe to me

... I totally want a classy, Nintendo-themed coffee house now... with a loft level with old videogames and suspended over the first floor, a model of the first Airship from SMB3....

.... I'd start drinking coffee just to hang out in a place like that.

 

[Lonely1]

Perhaps a bigger reason, probably not applicable with Cafe but definitely for 360, is because the hardware is unable to scale down 1080p pictures to a 480p signal. It can scale 720p down and up, so if a dev writes for 720p it is one codebase that can run on any TV.

Didn't knew that. Thanks. Now, RSX has a much worse scaler....

 

[From The Dust]

... I totally want a classy, Nintendo-themed coffee house now... with a loft level with old videogames and suspended over the first floor, a model of the first Airship from SMB3....

.... I'd start drinking coffee just to hang out in a place like that.

They could team up with Square Enix in Japan and Starbucks (or some other Seattle-based joint) here in America. Bitchin

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Thinking about Super Mario Cafe, I find hard to think of what would improve a game with solid colors. I guess more objects on screen to allow a larger variety. With better shader support, I'm sure hey will think of something. But without examples, it's hard for me to think of what it will look like

What seems likely to me is there will just be more incidental flair. Stuff going on in the backgrounds, better effects when you do stuff like use warp stars, see a universe that is slowly cracking with a glass cracking effect like in Portal 2, etc.

 

[arab]

my dreams for new super mario world:

1.) coop
2.) controls like a 3d mario
3.) actual world, towns and hubs scattered across the map for collecting stars but challenges and pathways with secret stars connecting these town hub places

fuck, they could just use the same map they did in the original SMW but just apply these things and change up the locations a little bit.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

Nintendo Magic *facepalm*

Judging from what we've actually seen in their modern development, Nintendo is actually fairly inept in regards to applying new modern technological standards. So, if we do see anything that is remotely new in terms of graphical effects, it almost certainly won't be from them.

Also, nothing in Super Mario Galaxy was "totally out of nowhere" in terms of tech. I'm not even sure how you came to that conclusion. It was intelligent use of the limitations of Wii technology (space allowing conservative use of geometry floating out in 'nothing', essentially) coupled with rather rudimentary techniques like rim lighting. It didn't even have next-gen shaders everywhere... just some bump mapping. What do you see in Mario Galaxy that is remarkable? It looks nice for a Wii game but I'm not sure what you mean.

In any event... the N64 came out during a period where PC and console tech equality was still the relative norm for gaming, so a WaveRace 64 scenario is not going to happen again. When Stream comes out it'll be absolutely devastated by top tier PC gaming technology, same as when PS4 and XBox 720 come out. Developers are familiar with the high end technology and therefore it is extremely unlikely that they'll come up with anything we don't know about utilizing modified HD 4850 technology. That's not that special at all. There won't be any surprises as developers have been toying with these technologies for years.

It is just not going to be something we haven't seen before, is all. When we see the games, you'll be able to immediately put a name to the effects on display.

G'night again.

Pretty much. If people are expecting to be blown away by ANY of the 3 hardware companies next generational offerings they're going to be sorely disappointed. For me, the magic isn't being blown away by the graphics of next generational in general its seeing franchises that I have grown to love being displayed with the new tech and power.

 

[From The Dust]

What seems likely to me is there will just be more incidental flair. Stuff going on in the backgrounds, better effects when you do stuff like use warp stars,

Spoiler

see a universe that is slowly cracking with a glass cracking effect like in Portal 2

, etc.

Dude. I haven't even bought the game yet! >:|

 

[Pepto]

Dude. I haven't even bought the game yet! >:|

You are mad because you found out that Portal 2 features cracked glass?

 

[Hot Coldman]

Dude. I haven't even bought the game yet! >:|

That's not an important part of the game. Just a graphical effect.

 

[From The Dust]

reading fail. i r stupid XP

 

[Father_Brain]

The sheer amount of time Skyward Sword has spent in development makes me wonder whether certain EAD teams have Square Enix-esque mismanagement issues. I'm not too worried about EAD Tokyo, since both Mario Galaxy titles were apparently developed on reasonable 2.5 to 3-year timeframes, but I'm concerned that we might not see a Cafe Zelda until 2017.

 

[[Nintex]]

The sheer amount of time Skyward Sword has spend in development makes me wonder whether certain EAD teams have Square Enix-esque mismanagement issues. I'm not too worried about EAD Tokyo, since both Mario Galaxy titles were apparently developed on reasonable 2.5 to 3-year timeframes, but I'm concerned that we might not see a Cafe Zelda until 2017.

Read the Iwata Asks on Twilight Princess, Miyamoto calls out Aonuma and jokes that he spend more time with mismanagement than he did developing the game.

I'm not sure that's the issue with Skyward Sword. That game was made in tandem with Spirit Tracks so they finished Spirit Tracks first and then set Skyward Sword as their top priority. I'm not sure if we can count the end of the development of Twilight Princess as the start of the development of the current Skyward Sword game given the fact that they threw together Phantom Hourglass and Link's Crossbow Training as well. It's pretty vague with Aonuma saying that Wii Motion Plus wasn't part of the original Wii Zelda plan and now it's pretty much the main theme of the game.

 

[herzogzwei1989]

And for those who keep speaking about that list of likely outcomes 1, 2, 3... 5 etc:

TRANSISTORS

XBOX: 63M
360: 232M/337M (with eDRAM)
4850: 956M

CLOCK SPEEDS

XBOX: 233MHz
360: 500MHz
4850: 625MHz

GFLOPS

XBOX: ~76
360: 240
4850: 1000

Can't find any other comparison numbers.. In terms of those numbers though, this console won't just be a small bump over what the XBOX 360 can do. Something closer to number 4 is likely, especially with Nintendo tweaking the design.

You're mixing Xbox1's "Nvflops" with 360's and 4850's programmable flops. not a good idea. Xbox1's GPU programmable flops is closer to 21 GFLOPs. source: the book "Opening The Xbox" page 270.

 

[From The Dust]

did we ever figure out what Nintendo's new building will be for? I think it was scheduled to open in 2013

 

[gofreak]

It marks a very clear change in their approach towards hardware development and would point towards the PS3 taking a very similar approach to Cafe, only adjusted for their timeframe, of course. So something like a slightly customised 6950, a slightly beefed up Cell and 2GB of RAM should be the sort of ballpark that people should be expecting imo.

From an architectural POV - reuse of others R&D - I agree, but from a performance POV I think it remains to be seen what 'similar' means, or if it'll be appropriate description. Depending on what Nintendo's doing, timescale may be the only factor, but we'll see if they're going to be as aggressive as a Sony or MS about performance (for their own launch period). Even if Sony or MS are somewhat less aggressive relative to past efforts.

I think we're maybe all talking past each other, but IMO it's performance that matters, not so much the architecture describing that performance (as long, of course, as it's not carrying some inherent f-k ups wrt performance). That's why I don't think talking about NGP being 'architecturally conservative' is really relevant if trying to pin down Sony or MS's performance goals for their next systems vs Cafe. I actually thought NGP was kind of encouraging for those hoping Sony would stay on a reasonably 'high power' course - where Cafe falls is more down to changes in Nintendo's approach than MS or Sony's IMO (assuming MS is also still looking to trade on powerful presentation vs other features).

 

[Father_Brain]

Read the Iwata Asks on Twilight Princess, Miyamoto calls out Aonuma and jokes that he spend more time with mismanagement than he did developing the game.

I'm not sure that's the issue with Skyward Sword. That game was made in tandem with Spirit Tracks so they finished Spirit Tracks first and then set Skyward Sword as their top priority. I'm not sure if we can count the end of the development of Twilight Princess as the start of the development of the current Skyward Sword game given the fact that they threw together Phantom Hourglass and Link's Crossbow Training as well. It's pretty vague with Aonuma saying that Wii Motion Plus wasn't part of the original Wii Zelda plan and now it's pretty much the main theme of the game.

Well, then Nintendo needs to do a better job separating development duties on the ground-up 3DS and Cafe Zelda games. It's one of their premier franchises, and five years between console entries really just shouldn't be acceptable, period.

 

[seady]

The problem is, even if the 3rd party ports on Wii 2 compare favorably with Xbox720/PS4 games, if it is even (VERY) slightly worse the other consoles, it will be ignored by the hardcores. This is especially true when it comes to the gaming press. They always choose a 'default' console when they play 3rd party games, and that 'default' console always get all the coverage and make it sound like that said game is made for that console.

 

[kittens]

did we ever figure out what Nintendo's new building will be for? I think it was scheduled to open in 2013

Pose as a plumber (red shirt + blue overalls, of course) doing routine maintenance, infiltrate the building, and let us know what's going on in there. Bring your tanooki suit just in case they're on your trail.

 

[F#A#Oo]

did we ever figure out what Nintendo's new building will be for? I think it was scheduled to open in 2013

I'm pretty sure it's just a building to hold all of Nintendo's money...

 

[SolarPowered]

Just woke up and read through the page. The discussion is definitely moving in a positive direction.

One thing I wanted to add concerning Nintendo's possible situation regarding HD game development compared to third parties. Nintendo has tons of highly recognizable IP at their disposal. If they were smart they'd be sharpening those artists and programmer's teeth on Donkey Kong, Wave Race, Starfox, Kirby, Metroid, and Mario Kart before a next gen Mario, Smash or Zelda game ever sees the light of day.

Their B tier franchises are sitting there ripe for the picking and they'd be great projects to get the EAD teams used to HD game development. I'm hoping we get a peek at Wave Race, F-zero and Starfox myself.

The problem is, even if the 3rd party ports on Wii 2 compare favorably with Xbox720/PS4 games, if it is even (VERY) slightly worse the other consoles, it will be ignored by the hardcores. This is especially true when it comes to the gaming press. They always choose a 'default' console when they play 3rd party games, and that 'default' console always get all the coverage and make it sound like that said game is made for that console.

They've got the chance to capture people's imaginations. All they need is that showcase third party experience and the hook of a competent online infrastructure. Once they've got that all they need is at least one year to build that audience.

I don't expect the Cafe to be the PS2 analogue at all. I see the cafe more as the PS1 in that it's supposed to capture mindshare while building a powerful brand for all. The next Nintendo console may be the real PS2 analogue if everything goes right for them this go around.

 

[From The Dust]

Well, then Nintendo needs to do a better job separating development duties on the ground-up 3DS and Cafe Zelda games. It's one of their premier franchises, and five years between console entries really just shouldn't be acceptable, period.

well we wouldn't want Nintendo to flood the market like CoD or FF (maybe, Nintendo haven't really expanded the franchise like FF)

 

[Mrbob]

Pretty much. If people are expecting to be blown away by ANY of the 3 hardware companies next generational offerings they're going to be sorely disappointed. For me, the magic isn't being blown away by the graphics of next generational in general its seeing franchises that I have grown to love being displayed with the new tech and power.

Agreed. However if Sony is going to position the PS4 like they are the PSP2 in terms of hardware then we should be alright. Sony may not be bleeding edge in terms of tech for PSP2 but that device still packs a lot of punch.

Plus it is nice to have a first party company push the limits of their hardware. Sony does some amazing things with PS3 hardware right now that shames 3rd parties in terms of visuals. Heck most games not named Crysis 2 are shamed by what Sony first party pumps out visually, and even Crysis 2 frame rates get crushed into the teens to make this visuals happen.

 

[FoneBone]

well we wouldn't want Nintendo to flood the market like CoD or FF (maybe, Nintendo haven't really expanded the franchise like FF)

Nobody's saying they should be churning them out annually, but every 3 or so years would be a lot more reasonable.

 

[DeFiBkIlLeR]

Funny to think that while we all pontificate about potential performance, there is some poor Dev guy pulling his hair out as we type, losing sleep over trying to get something together to show people at E3 on the new tech

....and right now wishing Nintendo were sticking with the Wii...)

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Well, then Nintendo needs to do a better job separating development duties on the ground-up 3DS and Cafe Zelda games. It's one of their premier franchises, and five years between console entries really just shouldn't be acceptable, period.

That's just the way they roll. It's been five years since New Super Mario Bros. and there hasn't been a handheld followup yet. It's the exception rather than the rule to wait less than five years for those big ones.

 

[seady]

That's just the way they roll. It's been five years since New Super Mario Bros. and there hasn't been a handheld followup yet. It's the exception rather than the rule to wait less than five years for those big ones.

Yet people keep saying Nintendo churning out the same games (while happily playing their annual Call of Duty and Assassin's Creed).

 

[AceBandage]

Funny to think that while we all pontificate about potential performance, there is some poor Dev guy pulling his hair out as we type, losing sleep over trying to get something together to show people at E3 on the new tech

....and right now wishing Nintendo were sticking with the Wii...)

There is no dev wishing that. I can promise you that.

 

[bgassassin]

Ok, so Detective Gaf, what power level do you expect for this thing? (no over 9k jokes)

Scenario 1: Xbox 360 level (not much more or less)

Scenario 2: Notch above 360 (running current gen games, regardless of complexity at 1080p)

Scenario 3: Significantly above 360 (running any current game games at 1080p, 60fps with improves textures and IQ)

Scenario 4: Next-gen .5 (Runs current-gen games as listed above, but in addition has just enough horsepower to create innovative new engines to provide graphics and performance never before seen at home, but below expectations for the next Xbox and Playstation)

Scenario 5: True Next-Gen (Xbox 720 or PS4 level, or just a hair or two below)

I'm expecting scenario 2. You will have developers who may want to show graphics beyond what the 360 can do by just lowering the resolution.

I'm still going with 4, with 5 being possible depending on how soon those two release their consoles.

As for that chart, I'm gong with No. 2, simply because I'm very cynical about things.

LOL.

But I understand that feeling.

... I totally want a classy, Nintendo-themed coffee house now... with a loft level with old videogames and suspended over the first floor, a model of the first Airship from SMB3....

.... I'd start drinking coffee just to hang out in a place like that.

A future part of Nintendo's online network?

There is no dev wishing that. I can promise you that.

Haha. I was about to say the same thing.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Zelda games also just plain take a while and they're going to take exponentially longer the more complicated they are to make.

 

[NeonZ]

I'm not sure that's the issue with Skyward Sword. That game was made in tandem with Spirit Tracks so they finished Spirit Tracks first and then set Skyward Sword as their top priority. I'm not sure if we can count the end of the development of Twilight Princess as the start of the development of the current Skyward Sword game given the fact that they threw together Phantom Hourglass and Link's Crossbow Training as well. It's pretty vague with Aonuma saying that Wii Motion Plus wasn't part of the original Wii Zelda plan and now it's pretty much the main theme of the game.

The game's director is Hidemaro Fujibayashi, who worked on Phantom Hourglass and directed the Gameboy Zeldas (aside from LA). So, it definitely started production AFTER Phantom Hourglass, at least.

Isn't it possible that the "Skyward Sword" that we have now is handled at least partially by the portable team and there's another Zelda team doing something else? That could help explaining the long development time.

 

[FoneBone]

Isn't it possible that the "Skyward Sword" that we have now is handled at least partially by the portable team and there's another Zelda team doing something else? That could help explaining the long development time.

I would hope that Cafe and 3DS Zeldas are already in development in some capacity, although I don't expect to see either one for a while. (I bet we'll see a cafe Zelda tech demo at E3, but an actual game will be a long, long ways off; the 3DS Zelda should show up sooner, but probably no announcement until 2012.)

 

[Father_Brain]

That's just the way they roll. It's been five years since New Super Mario Bros. and there hasn't been a handheld followup yet. It's the exception rather than the rule to wait less than five years for those big ones.

Unlike Mario platformers, Zelda has been a two-entries-per-platform franchise more often than not. And even if that's not going to be the case on Cafe, it shouldn't take until 2016 for Cafe to get its entry, but that's how things are looking right now.

Note: If Nintendo actually devotes significant resources to new/underexposed core IPs (in other words: not Mario/Metroid/Zelda) that launch within Cafe's first few years, as they notably did not do on Wii, I can forgive Zelda Cafe taking a while. But I'm not going to assume anything like that at this point.

 

[bgassassin]

Zelda games also just plain take a while and they're going to take exponentially longer the more complicated they are to make.

This. When was the last time a home console Zelda game didn't take at least three years from announcement to release?

 

[methodman]

Yet people keep saying Nintendo churning out the same games (while happily playing their annual Call of Duty and Assassin's Creed).

So fucking true.

 

[Kevin]

I think Nintendo needs to find a way to speed up the development cycle on their Zelda games. Twilight Princess took what, like five years? Going this rate, a true next generation Zelda game would take like ten years. Since we obviously know other companies don't take ten years to develop their games, it's obvious that Nintendo needs to beef up their development teams that are going to be working on these next gen titles.

I don't see Nintendo releasing big key titles that look like Wii titles on this beefy next gen Nintendo console while third party developers release the better looking stuff. Nintendo is obviously going to want to keep up with third party developers and that may mean some changes for their dev teams (just my speculation).

 

[FoneBone]

This. When was the last time a home console Zelda game didn't take at least three years from announcement to release?

There's never been one that took that long from announcement to release. Ocarina of Time may be the closest, counting the original tech demo.

 

[bgassassin]

There's never been one that took that long from announcement to release. Ocarina of Time may be the closest, counting the original tech demo.

That was my fault. I meant to say two years, but even that wouldn't have been totally accurate.