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[BY2K]

Can't explain, just live it and feel it you moist, moist macho man

It's beautiful.

 

[herzogzwei1989]

Time to get the dicussion going once again, so here's an IGN64 article on the N2000 before it was officially named Dolphin:

It's Alive!

IGN64 brings you the scoop on Nintendo's ArtX-designed 128-bit console.

March 15, 1999

It was fall of 1997 when Silicon Graphics Inc. (SGI) filed a lawsuit against startup ArtX. In the suit, SGI claimed that ArtX, staffed by 20 former SGI engineers and led by that company's former head of Nintendo operations Wei Yen (the division responsible for the architecture of Nintendo 64), could not help but utilize SGI company secrets in the development of future ArtX technologies.

Despite SGI's claims, in May of 1998 Nintendo officially contracted ArtX to develop its next-generation hardware. Incidentally, with no settlement reached, SGI quietly dropped its claims against ArtX and development of Nintendo's secret console continued unabated.

The Dawn of a New Millenium

"We are developing a more advanced videogame system, but we are not providing any specifics at this time," said Nintendo March 3 of this year in response to Sony's PlayStation 2 announcements.

Meanwhile, Nintendo's Peter Main recently confirmed that the company has plans to implement a new, more advanced hardware into the market by the end of 2000 or, more likely, 2001.

A reliable source close to Nintendo who wishes to remain anonymous recently narrowed the gap even further. "N2000 [tentative] is planned to ship October 2000 in Japan, but I don't think it's going to happen. In fact, from what I hear Nintendo isn't even convinced of this internally."

Evidently Nintendo is betting on its 64-bit hardware to hold its own against the conspiring forces of Dreamcast and later PlayStation 2. "It all depends on how well Nintendo 64's '99 software line-up sells," an anonymous Nintendo 64 developer commented. "If titles like Perfect Dark and Donkey Kong 64 do well, we're not going to see Nintendo's new hardware until 2001. If, on the other hand, Nintendo 64 sales begin to falter or Nintendo feels overly threatened by the competition, then I'm confident that N2000 will release October of next year as planned."

ArtX Inside

The original design specs for the N2000 -- a 128-bit system -- called for a 400Mhz port and dual chip design, much like the Nintendo 64. Unlike its predecessor, the new console will of course not feature a MIPS processor in favor of "proprietary technology" developed by ArtX. While the new technology will no doubt be impressive, this also pretty much rules out built-in backwards compatibility as seen in Sony's upcoming PlayStation 2.

No information is available on the unit's clock speed or graphics engine, but design papers written up in early 1998 still estimated the raw polygon output numbers of 20 million polygons per second. According to industry sources, these numbers may even quadruple before the system's release, bringing the Nintendo platform into the realm of Sony's next generation.

So how powerful will this thing be? "PlayStation 2 and N2000 will definitely be within 30%, power-wise," comments an anonymous Nintendo 64 developer who is hoping to lay his hands on a dev kit before the end of the year. While Sony has the edge in terms of manufacturing chips more cheaply, Nintendo has the advantage of time. The N2000 isn't slated to come out until more than a year after the PS2, so it's possible that it will emerge as the more powerful console in a number of respects.

Need More Memory

Nintendo's next console will again use the same speedy Rambus RAM as the N64. Sources told IGN64 that a memory expansion slot was not part of the original design document. The total amount of memory for the N2000 has not yet been finalized, but considering the late date of the console's release, Nintendo will no doubt match and beat the competition's total system memory.

Much Ado About NURBS

NURBS is an acronym for Non-Uniform Rational B-Splines and is basically an accurate way to define a free-form curve. Designers construct their models using beziers and NURBS and the curves are then broken down to polygons for display. While Sony's PS2 supports bezier surfacing in hardware, sources close to Nintendo told us that ArtX experimented with hardware NURBS conversion for the new console. At this point, we do not know whether the final console will support NURBS in hardware or whether the feature has fallen by the wayside.

Do you hear what I hear?

Like the N64, the next console will not include a sound chip. This means that most of the audio in N2000 games will be handled by the console's co-processor.

As you may know, this design led to a few problems with the N64, especially with developers who had gotten used to the use of Redbook audio in games. Since the N64's storage space is rather confined, streaming audio directly off the cartridge (which is the most "processor-friendly" solution) often wasn't an option for developers. Most of the time, audio was implemented last minute and used as few voices as possible or even played back in mono. Coupled with Software Creation's outdated sound drivers, the inability to easily stream audio like with the competition's CD systems caused loss of valuable processor time that could have been used for graphics, AI, and so on.

Thankfully, this doesn't appear to be an issue with the new console. Because of the storage media's copious amounts of space and Redbook audio playback abilities, audiophiles can expect surround quality audio. Let's hope for a coaxial or optical output.

No More Cartridges

Nintendo recently confirmed that the next console would not utilize cartridges. While carts are certainly sturdy in design and enable quick data access, their drawbacks are manifold. Let's face it, the N64 was developed around Super Mario 64. The EAD team wanted a machine able to create a seamless cartoon world without load times and didn't care much about space and cost issues. But what about third-party developers? Many were naturally outraged at the cost and confines of cartridges and ignored the N64, especially in Japan.

Nintendo is fully aware that the decision to go with cartridges cost the N64 the full support of companies like Square, Capcom, and eventually Enix, Namco, Taito, and more. Likewise, PC developers spoiled with CD games didn't exactly flock to the console, either. Although Nintendo has certainly shown that a system can survive on first- and third-party support, NCL is not content watching millions of Japanese ignoring its leading game console while less powerful machines draw larger crowds simply based on major game franchises and quantity of titles.

The N2000 is designed from the get-go to attract third-party developers by offering more power at a cheaper price. Nintendo's design doc for the console specifies that cost is of utmost importance, followed by space.

According to Japanese sources, Nintendo has narrowed down its choice of media to two options:

* Proprietary 1.5 GB (Gigabyte) disk system that may or may not offer writability. This is roughly three times the size of a CD and 50% more space than the proprietary Dreamcast format offers.
* Digital Versatile Disk (DVD). Nintendo is impressed by the size of the media (5.7 GB) and many Japanese developers have approached NCL with the suggestion to choose this format.

According to sources close to NCL, the decision of which format to back has not yet been made. While writability would work hand-in-hand with planned network abilities and Internet surfing as well as please the EAD development teams, DVD is the cheaper and larger format. It is very likely that Nintendo will choose to implement the latter and opt for a harddrive-style writable component (or add-on) for the final design.

The Game Boy Connection

Game Boy connectivity was planned from the very beginning. Two months ago, NCL hinted that its next console would offer data exchange with Game Boy Color units via the handheld's built-in infrared port. If the feature doesn't get axed for cost reasons, gamers will be able to hold their Game Boy up to the N2000 and swap data, such as Pokemon monster information.

Networking

A Nintendo of America source commented that "Networkability is at the top of the list for the new console." Nintendo has entered into an agreement with Israel-based Nexus to develop networking and modem capabilities for both its current console and future technology. Along with mumblings about Nintendo's involvement with Netscape, Alps, and a number of modem makers, N2000's ability to allow for network gaming and possibly Internet surfing and e-mail is guaranteed.

Control

Despite a few info sheets circulating the web with supposed information on the N2000's controller, it simply hasn't been designed yet. NCL's hardware wizards are reportedly experimenting with a number of designs (including a two-pronged one more similar to the PSX controller), but so far, only two things are known from the design sheet: Internal rumble function and at least two analog buttons. Expect the N2000 kits to ship not with actual N2000 controllers, but rather with modified N64 ones -- just like the Nuon dev kit.

Developers and Games

Though the release of Nintendo's next-generation console is still a long way off, a number of talented developers have already pledged allegiance to the hardware. IGN64 has complied a brief list of who and what to keep an eye out for.

Nintendo and EAD

* Fact: November, 1998. Shigeru Miyamoto, in an interview with the Japanese magazine 64Dream, commented, "1080 2 was cancelled in its early planning stages and the team responsible for 1080 has started researching new hardware."

Programmer Giles Goddard (responsible for the 3D Mario face in Super Mario 64) and team are likely already underway with software for Nintendo's next console. In fact, if any developer has a quasi-working N2000 development kit, it's EAD.

* Fact: December, 1998. Shigeru Miyamoto commented on the sequel to Super Mario 64. "We made the outline for Mario 2 more than one year ago, but I haven't touched it since then. The original idea was to make it available on the 64DD, but since I haven't worked on it for the last year I can't tell what it will be like."

Miyamoto went on to hint of the game's possible incarnation for a new hardware. "Maybe we will get some other people to work on it, or we will make it for a completely different system."

The chances that a Mario-based game will introduce the new Nintendo hardware is almost certain.

* Fact: Startup second-party game-maker Retro Studios comes out as first official N2000 developer.

Formed by ex-Iguana Entertainment founder and president Jeff Spangenberg, Retro Studios is currently making sports games for the next Nintendo console. Expect the company's first title to fall under the football genre.

"They haven't got N2000 development kits yet," reports an anonymous source close to the company. "But they're expecting them very soon."

Other often mentioned, but as of yet unconfirmed N2000 developers/publishers include:

* Rare
* Ubi Soft
* Acclaim (Iguana)
* Midway/Atari Games
* Capcom
* Konami
* Factor 5/LucasArts
* Looking Glass Studios

It's Coming

"It's really hard to keep anything secret if you are within 12 months of launch because too many people know," reminds a source close to Nintendo. "As soon as development kits start leaking out we're going to have concrete information and I'd say it'll happen well before the end of this year."

With word that Retro Studios is expecting development kits within a few months time, the N2000 is quickly becoming more than just a rumor. The next-generation console will be announced officially before the end of the year and it will absolutely compete with the competition in terms of both power and price.

In the meantime, be patient, enjoy the very best the Nintendo 64 has to offer and remember, all good things come to those who wait.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

Time to get the dicussion going once again, so here's an IGN64 article on the N2000 before it was officially named Dolphin:

Can't read this right now, but if it's the article I'm thinking of, it's a great article.

 

[1-D_FTW]

New discussion material? How about this: Nintendo just had their worst sales week in Wii history. 6,336 sold in the last week in Japan. If they keep bombing along, could they possibly revise their financials and get this thing out by the holidays?

 

[AceBandage]

New discussion material? How about this: Nintendo just had their worst sales week in Wii history. 6,336 sold in the last week in Japan. If they keep bombing along, could they possibly revise their financials and get this thing out by the holidays?

No. They won't. They've already told their investors their plans.

 

[Penguin]

New discussion material? How about this: Nintendo just had their worst sales week in Wii history. 6,336 sold in the last week in Japan. If they keep bombing along, could they possibly revise their financials and get this thing out by the holidays?

I thought they already announced their counter to that would be to release a game a month for the Wii in Japan, starting next week?

 

[Shiine]

So what do we know about the console?

* 1080P HD?
* 6" Touchscreen with haptic feedback

What more do we actually know?

 

[Plinko]

So what do we know about the console?

* 1080P HD?
* 6" Touchscreen with haptic feedback

What more do we actually know?

Both of those are not confirmed.

 

[herzogzwei1989]

New discussion material? How about this: Nintendo just had their worst sales week in Wii history. 6,336 sold in the last week in Japan. If they keep bombing along, could they possibly revise their financials and get this thing out by the holidays?

Time to roll out Dragon Quest X, it seems.

 

[BlackNMild2k1]

So what do we know about the console?

* 1080P HD?
* 6" Touchscreen with haptic feedback

What more do we actually know?

Both of those are not confirmed.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=429803

Let's just go full circle.

 

[Shiine]

Both of those are not confirmed.

Yeah i know, but the swedish site "Loading" (wich is the site for their magazine "Level") has leaked some information about other things too.

They were the first/and only (for me) source i belived in when they said that Sonic would be in Super Smash Bros Brawl.

And im pretty sure that this information is true. But nothing will be confirmed until E3 i think, but the things that Loading have said im sure about. I trust the site to a 100%.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

Wall of Text/Food for Thought

http://www.design-reuse.com/articles/22839/embedded-symmetric-multiprocessing.html

Embedded Symmetric MultiProcessing system on a SoC with 1.6GHz PowerPC IP in 45nm
By Gerard Boudon, IBM Microelectronics
Abstract:
Because the dimensions of lithography are now closer to the fundamental physical limits, scaling is more and more difficult and thus multi-core processor solutions are just starting to be more popular in the embedded area. This paper describes in details the features that allow SoCs to be built with up to eight 1.6 GHz PowerPC CPU cores in an embedded system supporting Symmetric Multiprocessing (SMP) architecture. The balancing between CPU execution speed, memory bandwidth and latency, and coherency overhead has been the objective of the design of the PLB6 and the L2 Cache IP’s, to reduce as much as possible the drop-off in performance-per-core inherent in an SMP approach.
1. Introduction
In September 2009, [1] IBM has introduced an 1.6 GHz PowerPC CPU IP in 45nm SOI – 3.6mm2 size – that can be integrated in multi-core system-on-chip (SoC) product families for communication, storage, consumer, and aerospace and defense embedded applications.
2. PowerPC476 IP
The PowerPC 476FP embedded processor core is a 5- issue, 5-pipeline, superscalar, 32-bit reduced instruction set computer (RISC) processor. The core supports the Power Instruction Set Architecture V2.05. The core also supports memory coherency to broaden ASIC solutions into multiprocessing system environments and to increase its scalability.
The overall organization of the processor core is shown on Figure 1 .
Instruction Path
The PowerPC 476FP processor is a high performance core with capability to issue up to 5-instructions per cycle. These instructions can feed in parallel the following five fixed point units as well as the separate floating-point (FP) pipeline:
* Branch pipeline
* Load and Store operations
* Simple arithmetic and logical operations
* Simple and complex instruction pipeline,
* Multiplication and division pipeline
L1 Cache
The L1 32 KB Instruction and L1 32 KB Data caches are two-cycle pipelined cache accesses, with index of real address in the 1024-entry unified translation lookaside buffer (UTLB)
The L1 Cache Address and Data Caches are snoopable. Early delivery of instructions to the floating-point unit is enabled because all instructions are predecoded
Floating-Point Unit
The floating-point unit (FPU) is a pipelined, doubleprecision math computation processing unit that is attached to the processor core. The FPU conforms to the IEEE Standard for Binary Floating-Point Arithmetic. The FPU is a Six-stage super-pipelined floating-point arithmetic execution with independent floating-point load-and-store and execution units
Figure 1: PowerPC476 CPU core block diagram
Power Saving
The PPC476FP includes design features to minimize the operating power of the PowerPC 476FP
* All latches are clock gated so that idle functions do not waste power.
* All non executing and idle functions are disabled.
* Static random access memory (SRAM) is partitioned so that only the required memory zone is enabled or selected.
* Doze and idle sleep modes are available.
* The central logic and the floating-point unit have separate clock enables
3. L2 Cache
The L2 Cache IP [2] can be configured in 256K, 512KB or 1 MB with a maximum of 4,096 entries. The L2 cache line is 128 byte and the cache is 4 way set associative. To support the high RAS (Reliability and Serviceability) requirement of the networking application, the L2 Cache arrays are protected by Parity and ECC bits.
4. PLB6
The 476FP “subsystem” which includes the PowerPC 476FP CPU core, the Level 2 cache/cache controller, is connected to other “subsystems” through the PLB6, the latest architectural extension of the CoreConnect local bus architecture. This structure enables SoC designers to easily and rapidly develop entire families of products, scaling the number of “master” cores from 1 to 16 (including 1 to 8 Coherent CPU cores) on the bus. The PLB4 CoreConnect internal Bus is a shared bus of 128bit data at a maximum speed one fourth of the CPU speed. It was designed for sub 1GHz CPU cores. High performance is achieved with a dual bus structure one bus with a high throughput and the second with low latency. Each of them is independently capable of handling read and write operations at the same time.
The new IBM CoreConnect PLB6 bus looks more like a fabric with high speed point to point links, with each of them having 128 bit Read and 128 bit Write Data paths at one half of the CPU clock speed.
The bus fabric on the PLB6 is capable of supporting up to 8 coherent master elements, giving SoC designers the flexibility to mix and match I/O masters, processors and other accelerators within the fabric.
The high throughput of this bus is due to its fabric structure with up to eight slave segments, that can simultaneously receive or transmit Data.
Each slave segment may have up to 4 slaves. It is possible, in 45nm technology and without any preplacement in silicon, to operate the bus structure at up to 800MHz.
Symmetric Multiprocessing (SMP)
In order to guaranty coherency between data in main memory and data in the various caches, the design of a conventional SMP system is following the MESI protocol:
* M Modified
* E Exclusive
* S Shared
* I Invalid
These states are associated with each cache line (L2 for the PPC476). Each CPU performs snooping operation where these cache states are used. Notice that the cache in the SMP processors architecture must have the same Cache line size and the same MESI states.
The performance of such coherent SMP system is limited by the fact that transactions are possible only between the Cache and the main memory. For example, when a CPU 1 wants to read a data that is in a M (Modified)
state in the cache of a CPU2, the first operation is for the CPU2 to write the Data in the memory, and then the CPU1 can read it. Result; 2 operations with 2 memory access are needed for CPU1 to get the data.
With the symmetric multiprocessing architecture, scaling up the number of processors, is efficient if at the same time the hardware coherency is smart enough to handle the huge bandwidth demand of the coherence transactions.
It is necessary to have a non-blocking coherence resolution which prevents stopping CPU execution most of the time; In the PPC476 three additional states are introduced in the L2 cache in order to allow Cache to Cache transfer, and better Atomic operations.
The Data transfer is eased by a dedicated path between different subunit called Intervention data path. These 3 states are:
* MU Modified Unsolicited
* T Tagged
* SL Shared Last
The purpose of intervention by a CPU Master is to reduce the latency needed to fetch a cache line when it is not present in its L2, but is present in other L2′s.
The SL (Share Last) state is used for Intervention. It designate one (only) cache responsible to provide the Data after an intervention. As result of an intervention among L2′s, Cache to Cache transfer is done instead of Memory access after a L2 miss.
5. Example of SoC implementation
An example of system implementation is shown in figure 4. The PLB6 is mainly reserved for high speed access and for handling memory coherency due to the use of multiple CPU cores. The System Memory is also attached to the PLB6 because fast access to memory is very important for running code and provides data not already in cache. Due to high speed of the CPU it is necessary to provide data from main memory at a speed that only the late generation of DDR3-1600MHz SDRAM can give.
A SoC requires also high speed I/O’s, that are attached here below a PLB6 to PLB4 interface. These I/O are commonly PCI Express with second generation 5gbps per port throughput. Legacy Ethernet is also mandatory because it is important at least to load code in the system. Other IP blocks such as USB or SATA can be connected through an AXI bus for example.
6. Physical implementation
SOI: In order to reduce power and electrical leakage, the choice of 45nm silicon-on-insulator (SOI) technology was made. SOI can provide up to a 30 % chip performance improvement and 40 % power reduction, compared to standard bulk silicon technology [3]. This technology is used by IBM in a wide range of application-specific integrated circuits (ASIC) and foundry clients as well as in chips for its servers and storage products.
For performance and power dissipation optimization, the PowerPC476FP CPU IP has been designed in a hard core, while for flexibility in personalization, L2 cache and PLB6 are synthesizable; see layout of the PPC476 core on figure 5. The following table indicates various areas of the IP block necessary to build an SMP system.
7. Design verification by emulation
Functional verification of the PowerPC 476FP CPU, L2 cache and PLB6 bus complex made extensive use of hardware emulation through a custom multi-core FPGA based test board. In addition to greatly speeding up the design verification effort, this emulation platform has provided for Linux kernel and device driver configuration and testing, and it is providing for extensive early code development and benchmarking.
8. Conclusions
It has been agreed in the industry that the future of embedded system is multi core. The PPC476 includes 3 key IP cores; the 1.6GHz CPU, the L2 cache and the PLB6, which combined together, helps SoC designers to built embedded system with the highest performance. This performance is achieved with the coherence of data managed by hardware assist.

 

[TekkenMaster]

 

[donny2112]

New discussion material? How about this: Nintendo just had their worst sales week in Wii history. 6,336 sold in the last week in Japan. If they keep bombing along, could they possibly revise their financials and get this thing out by the holidays?

Need to drop the price to 1000 yen, bring out the Nintendo Selects in Japan, and ride out the last year of the console with the later DQX bump. They won't, though. They've been letting this thing flounder in Japan for 3 years now, so why would they change their (lack of) plans now?

 

[AceBandage]

Need to drop the price to 1000 yen, bring out the Nintendo Selects in Japan, and ride out the last year of the console with the later DQX bump. They won't, though. They've been letting this thing flounder in Japan for 3 years now, so why would they change their (lack of) plans now?

Er, Nintendo Selects have been out in Japan for a long time. And it includes awesome third party games. Plus they're going to be releasing games fairly regularly for the rest of the year.

 

[NotGameboy]

New discussion material? How about this: Nintendo just had their worst sales week in Wii history. 6,336 sold in the last week in Japan. If they keep bombing along, could they possibly revise their financials and get this thing out by the holidays?

Wii 2 Q4 release confirmed.

So what do we know about the console?

* 1080P HD?
* 6" Touchscreen with haptic feedback

What more do we actually know?

We know nothing. Just rumors.

 

[Thraktor]

Wall of Text/Food for Thought

http://www.design-reuse.com/articles/22839/embedded-symmetric-multiprocessing.html

Quite interesting, but I don't think it's the architecture they'll use. As far as I can see, there are two sets of criteria for a CPU for Café:

Nintendo almost certainly want backwards compatibility with Wii. For this to be possible,

- The CPU must be Power PC based
- The CPU must support out-of-order execution

It also looks, from almost every rumour, that they want to make it as easy as possible for third parties to share code with XBox 360 games. Hence,

- The CPU must be 64-bit
- The CPU must have at least 3 cores, each capable of at least two threads
- The CPU must be clocked at at least 3.2Ghz

The PowerPC 476FP, and indeed the entire PowerPC 400 series, are 32-bit, and with maximum clock speeds of 2Ghz. The clock speeds could be increased on a customised chip, but 64-bit support requires a different processor altogether.

The only currently available CPU which fits Nintendo's needs is the IBM POWER7. It's 64-bit, supports out-of-order execution, has up to 8 cores with 4 threads per core, and runs at up to 4.25Ghz. It's a beast of a processor, and even at the same number of cores and clock speed, would run rings around the XBox 360 CPU. It's actually the processor that was used in the Watson supercomputer that won on Jeopardy. Of course, Watson probably had several thousand cores worth of these, but it shows how well suited the processor is for things like AI.

The problem, though, is that being designed for servers and supercomputers means its expensive, power-hungry and hot, which is not a set of qualities I can imagine Nintendo looking for in a component. But, as per usual, Nintendo would be looking for a custom chip, which could be based on the POWER7, but stripped down to bring it within budget and heat constraints. The rumour that the Café will be "about the size of the XBox 360" fits right in with this; Nintendo would only make a console that big if there was some significant heat being generated inside that needed a large cooling system to dissipate. The 4850-based GPU won't be that hot on its own, so this would point to a comparatively hot processor, such as a POWER7-based chip, running alongside it.

 

[legacyzero]

fuck it. 26th Aniversary needs this remade in HD. high def moon would scare me shitless

A FULL remake for this gen would knock my socks off. Majora's Mask is still the best to me with OOT in a very very very close second.

Wii 2 Q4 release confirmed.

If it's good enough of a console and catches enough hype, Hell yeah, it could work. i wouldn't be surprised with a early 2012 to late 2012 though..

 

[ColonialRaptor]

so in that leaked video I sure hope that it's not legit because that controller looks like arse....

 

[bgassassin]

This thread has been sensible for awhile. We need more posts about how Nintendo would be crazy not to use 4GB of memory because you can buy it on Newegg for $5.

 

[herzogzwei1989]

Wall of Text/Food for Thought

http://www.design-reuse.com/articles/22839/embedded-symmetric-multiprocessing.html

Interesting.

 

[shadyspace]

They'd screw up a Majora's Mask remake, Cafe or 3DS. The atmosphere and ambiance of that game is too essential for them not to.

 

[M-PG71C]

This thread has been sensible for awhile. We need more posts about how Nintendo would be crazy not to use 4GB of memory because you can buy it on Newegg for $5.

*Insert Nintendo is Doomed/Damned/Dumb Comment Here*

God knows the media and cynical gamers have been preaching that line since 1988. When the fuck were they suppose to go the way of SEGA again? 1993? Maybe 1999? Perhaps 2006?

If Nintendo does not make a system at least as powerful as Microsoft and Sony, they are fucked and they will clearly have their ass kicked again like this past generation. I mean, Nintendo is really close to the brink of bankruptcy. They'll be "Dreamcasted".

Did that help lol?

 

[Grampa Simpson]

Quite interesting, but I don't think it's the architecture they'll use. As far as I can see, there are two sets of criteria for a CPU for Café:

Nintendo almost certainly want backwards compatibility with Wii. For this to be possible,

- The CPU must be Power PC based
- The CPU must support out-of-order execution

Going to agree on both these counts.

It also looks, from almost every rumour, that they want to make it as easy as possible for third parties to share code with XBox 360 games. Hence,

- The CPU must be 64-bit

Possibly. It does not need to be binary compatible. One would have to do a survey of developers to see how many are using extensive assembly in their software. I'm under the impression that it's mostly a lost art, but I could be wrong.

- The CPU must have at least 3 cores, each capable of at least two threads

Not quite. It must be able to support 6 simultenous threads. That could be 1, 2, 3, or 6 cores.

- The CPU must be clocked at at least 3.2Ghz

No. It needs to be able to process more operations per second per thread as the Xenon. That doesn't directly correlate to clock speed.

The PowerPC 476FP, and indeed the entire PowerPC 400 series, are 32-bit, and with maximum clock speeds of 2Ghz. The clock speeds could be increased on a customised chip, but 64-bit support requires a different processor altogether.

I'm still not sold on has to be 64 bit.

The only currently available CPU which fits Nintendo's needs is the IBM POWER7. It's 64-bit, supports out-of-order execution, has up to 8 cores with 4 threads per core, and runs at up to 4.25Ghz. It's a beast of a processor, and even at the same number of cores and clock speed, would run rings around the XBox 360 CPU. It's actually the processor that was used in the Watson supercomputer that won on Jeopardy. Of course, Watson probably had several thousand cores worth of these, but it shows how well suited the processor is for things like AI.

The problem, though, is that being designed for servers and supercomputers means its expensive, power-hungry and hot, which is not a set of qualities I can imagine Nintendo looking for in a component. But, as per usual, Nintendo would be looking for a custom chip, which could be based on the POWER7, but stripped down to bring it within budget and heat constraints. The rumour that the Café will be "about the size of the XBox 360" fits right in with this; Nintendo would only make a console that big if there was some significant heat being generated inside that needed a large cooling system to dissipate. The 4850-based GPU won't be that hot on its own, so this would point to a comparatively hot processor, such as a POWER7-based chip, running alongside it.

The POWER7 would certainly meet their computing needs, and would massively exceed them. It would not be at all appropriate from a cost or heat output standpoint.

The PowerPC A2 is a 64 bit PowerPC that probably would fit the bill much better. I do not know what type of support architecture it would require though.

Titan is another 32bit PowerPC variant that is low power and extensible.

If I were to bet, I would bet it would be one of these three, but I also think that they did a huge amount of the system design in 2009, and that would have me leaning more towards the 476FP - I just don't know if would meet the operations per thread per second requirements to allow for easy porting.

 

[AceBandage]

Well, they can design a system, and still update it as time goes on. Up until the day they are going to start putting together release units, they can change most of the components.

 

[ColonialRaptor]

So it seems everyone's seen that video that's going around, honestly it looks fake to me... the controller looks like arse as well so I really hope it's not true lol.

Very easy for someone to put something together like that and fake it as well, I mean I could do that with ease.

 

[bgassassin]

*Insert Nintendo is Doomed/Damned/Dumb Comment Here*

God knows the media and cynical gamers have been preaching that line since 1988. When the fuck were they suppose to go the way of SEGA again? 1993? Maybe 1999? Perhaps 2006?

If Nintendo does not make a system at least as powerful as Microsoft and Sony, they are fucked and they will clearly have their ass kicked again like this past generation. I mean, Nintendo is really close to the brink of bankruptcy. They'll be "Dreamcasted".

Did that help lol?

Yes. Much better. Balance restored. But yeah it's been preached for awhile, but I think we'd both agree that Nintendo was the one that made it justifiable in the beginning.

 

[AceBandage]

So has everyone seen this video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgjES1oOTlc

It appears to have physical hardware of those images we saw a while ago, also a mock up of the controller (which looks ugly as hell).

I look around, but it doesn't seem like this has had any discussion on GAF yet...?

Fake?

Posted a few times and very very very fake.

 

[herzogzwei1989]

No. It needs to be able to process more operations per second per thread as the Xenon. That doesn't directly correlate to clock speed.

BINGO!

 

[TekkenMaster]

I wonder how much money Nintendo actually saved by leaving out HD in the Wii.

I can't imagine it would have cost much more to include incredibly basic HD support...rendering Wii-level graphics/effects at 720P.

The processor could have been far weaker than Xenos, with much less RAM. And the Wii probably wouldn't be dead right now.

 

[From The Dust]

Posted a few times and very very very fake.

it's the new 3DS video/Cafe console leak

 

[Grampa Simpson]

I wonder how much money Nintendo actually saved by leaving out HD in the Wii.

I can't imagine it would have cost much more to include incredibly basic HD support...rendering Wii-level graphics/effects at 720P.

The processor could have been far weaker than Xenos, with much less RAM. And the Wii probably wouldn't be dead right now.

They would have had to double the embedded 1T-SRAM and would have had have at least tripled the clock speed of Hollywood to get the same render speed at 720p. Would have blown their heat budget and they wouldn't have had the 3 DVD case design.

 

[TekkenMaster]

They would have had to double the embedded 1T-SRAM and would have had have at least tripled the clock speed of Hollywood to get the same render speed at 720p. Would have blown their heat budget and they wouldn't have had the 3 DVD case design.

Interesting...so simply outputting existing Wii assets (same standard definition textures, same lack of shaders, etc) at 720P a'la Dolphin would require such a significant boost?

 

[Grampa Simpson]

Interesting...so simply outputting existing Wii assets (same standard definition textures, same lack of shaders, etc) at 720P a'la Dolphin would require such a significant boost?

If they're using the same part, I'm under the impression that clock rate is very tied to triangle output and pixel fill rate. Going from 480p (4x3) to 720p would be almost exactly 3x the number of pixels. They would have to triple the frame buffer which might be doable by only doubling the embedded 1T-SRAM. 1080p is something else again though.

They also might get away with the intended way to upscale 720p to 1080i which is very simple and requires very little logic.

I'm fully expecting brain_stew or someone similar to correct my out-of-date ass, but the logic is sound for my knowledge level.

Anyway, it wasn't the render resolution that killed 3rd party portability on the Wii. It was engine portability.

 

[VOOK]

Here's a full and comprehensive list of what's confirmed about the Wii's successor;

- It'll be revealed at E3 2011.

 

[AceBandage]

Here's a full and comprehensive list of what's confirmed about the Wii's successor;

- It'll be revealed at E3 2011.
- It will be playable in some form.

There we go.

 

[VOOK]

There we go.

The fact that it will be playable isn't something we know about the console.

 

[AceBandage]

The fact that it will be playable isn't something we know about the console.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

Do I have to ressurect my list of meltdown inducing rumors from the other thread? Does BlacknMild2k1?

 

[Poyunch]

The fact that it will be playable isn't something we know about the console.

But playable demos were confirmed, right?

 

[TekkenMaster]

Here's a full and comprehensive list of what's confirmed about the Wii's successor;

- It'll be revealed at E3 2011.

The world ends May 21...

 

[bgassassin]

It was engine portability.

But that allowed Wii owners to get this version.

 

[antonz]

But playable demos were confirmed, right?

Yes NOA PR confirmed that playable means playable

 

[VOOK]

I know it'll be playable AT E3, I'm not saying that.

But it's not something about the console itself. The fact that it's playable or not at E3 means nothing.

Knowing the colour of it would be something worth knowing.

 

[TekkenMaster]

So which Nintendo franchises will show up in either playable, demo, or video form at E3?

My guesses:

1. Mario
2. Skyward Sword HD
3. Pikmin 3
4. either Smash Bros or Mario Kart (not both)
5. either F-Zero or StarFox (not both)
6. Pokemon of some kind
6. least likely is Metroid (needs to breathe I think before another reboot)

 

[Gravijah]

I know it'll be playable AT E3, I'm not saying that.

But it's not something about the console itself. The fact that it's playable or not at E3 means nothing.

Knowing the colour of it would be something worth knowing.

Black, white and if they are feeling a bit exotic, grey!

 

[legacyzero]

So which Nintendo franchises will show up in either playable, demo, or video form at E3?

I'll take a new Metroid FPS to start, please

 

[comedy bomb]

Black, white and if they are feeling a bit exotic, grey!

No, they'll show some nice colors that will never be released.

 

[AceBandage]

So which Nintendo franchises will show up in either playable, demo, or video form at E3?

 

[TekkenMaster]

I'll take a new Metroid FPS to start, please

That's actually my #1 wish. I just don't think it will happen so soon. But I would scream like a manchild if we get a 1080P/60 FPS Retro-developed Metroid at E3.