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[Rykan]

They are. And what can be achieved with an action RPG is much different today than it was in the 80s. You literally don't have a point.

This is straight up projection. It's clear that you don't actually have a point here, and you're just trying to argue for the sake of arguing. VHS are older than DVD's. That doesn't make DVD a “recent developed format”. Do you go around calling cars a recent phenomenon because they're newer than horse and wagon?

Of course, you can achieve more with action RPG's NOW than you could in the 80's or early 90's. That goes for every single genre, including turn based combat. Final Fantasy being turn based has nothing to do with “Technical limitations”. Action RPG's predate even the first Final Fantasy.

 

[fermcr]

I'm sure Sony paid them enough money to make up the difference.

 

[demigod]

What has this dude been right about? Yeah I’m gonna go with FUD.

 

[Chukhopops]

Just because you personally don’t like direction it’s going, like I said petty.

Call it however you want. I simply dislike the trend of everything merging into light action RPG gameplay and everything that delays or goes against that trend is good news in my opinion.

But like I said I expect it to sell well to people who’ve never played FF games before XV and enjoyed 7R / Forspoken.

 

[Abriael_GN]

This is straight up projection. It's clear that you don't actually have a point here, and you're just trying to argue for the sake of arguing. VHS are older than DVD's. That doesn't make DVD a “recent developed format”.

Of course, you can achieve more with action RPG's NOW than you could in the 80's or early 90's. That goes for every single genre, including turn based combat.

If you're telling me that turn-based games have evolved to a similar degree as action RPGs since the 80s, it just shows that you're either disingenuous or you don't know what you're talking about.

I *love* turn-based games, but won't hide behind a finger and say that they play very differently than they did in Final Fantasy 6 or Final Fantasy Tactics or even much earlier titles.

Action RPGs have evolved MUCH more radically. This is just a fact. Hence, they're rightfully seen as a modern evolution of RPG that embodies more closely what people substitute with imagination when they play turn-based games.

The argument you blindly tried to rebuke simply explains (rightfully) the fact that turn-based games rely *much* more on the imagination, which they absolutely do.

When turn-based RPGs were widely used as the primary gameplay mechanic for RPGs, action RPGs were either impossible or much more limited in what they could achieve depending on the timeframe you're looking at. Now those limitations have disappeared, so the balance has shifted.

 

[DenchDeckard]

It would be catastrophic for them if this performs worse than ffxv

 

[Haint]

There is a lot of things going against FF16.

1. Diablo 4 releasing on the PS5. Diablo is a bigger game at this point and will take a lot of sales away from FF16.

2. Japan PS5 game sales are just underwhelming to say the least.

3. People are not buying new games as much because it is 70 dollars.

4. Timed exclusive on PS5 instead of releasing on Xbox and pc at the same time.

5. Previous FF games were underwhelming and damaged the FF brand.

6. Aesthetically it looks like an FF14 expansion, which many people are burned out on, while many others hold a negative impression of cause they dislike MMO's in general. Honestly a lot of people probably think it IS an FF14 expansion.

 

[Abriael_GN]

It would be catastrophic for them if this performs worse than ffxv

Yes. We know. You hate FFXVI. You've made it clear.

which many people are burned out on,

Tell me you're out of touch without telling me you're out of touch.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Yes. We know. You hate FFXVI. You've made it clear.



Tell me you're out of touch without telling me you're out of touch.

And I get that you think that everyone is just going to accept this game and anyone who thinks differently has issues.

 

[StealthGoblin]

In today's world. Bombastic combat and big setpieces are what marketing is based on. It's marketing 101. People want to be wowed. Discerning fans are not the target of general marketing.

Well maybe they needed to do something a little different if their pre-orders are concerning them.

 

[Abriael_GN]

And I get that you think that everyone is just going to accept this game and anyone who thinks differently has issues.

You absolutely do, considering how much you troll threads about a game you obviously hate.

Final Fantasy XV has sold over 10 million copies. "catastrophic" doesn't mean what you think it means. It certainly doesn't mean selling an undefined less than 10 million copies.

Well maybe they needed to do something a little different if their pre-orders are concerning them.

I wouldn't assume that Imran Khan isn't just talking out of his ass to draw attention to his Patreon.

 

[Danjin44]

Aesthetically it looks like an FF14 expansion

They share the same character designers but the tone of FFXVI is different than FFXIV. I don’t how that’s makes it “expansion”?

It’s like saying FFXII is expansion of FFXI. Some these complains makes zero sense.

 

[Roufianos]

186 Patrons

 

[Abriael_GN]

186 Patrons

We're talking about someone who used to work at Fanbyte, a sensationalist website owned by Tencent that's now basically dead after boycotting games because of politics while pretty much being on China's payroll.

 

[Tomi]

Nothing strange...
People dont wanna preorder anymore because developers deliver beta products, not complete games

 

[Pedro Motta]

I haven't pre-ordered anything and I'm pretty sure I'll buy it day one.

 

[StealthGoblin]

You absolutely do, considering how much you troll threads about a game you obviously hate.

Final Fantasy XV has sold over 10 million copies. "catastrophic" doesn't mean what you think it means. It certainly doesn't mean selling an undefined less than 10 million copies.



I wouldn't assume that Imran Khan isn't just talking out of his ass to draw attention to his Patreon.

The directors latest comments indicate that he’s not entirely confident either.

Anyway, I’m sure I’ll get around to playing it but I can tell I’m not going to be enamoured by it. There isn’t much I’ve seen that’s wowed me or made me want it. Maybe when it hits Extra.

 

[Rykan]

If you're telling me that turn-based games have evolved to a similar degree as action RPGs since the 80s, it just shows that you're either disingenuous or you don't know what you're talking about.

I *love* turn-based games, but won't hide behind a finger and say that they play very differently than they did in Final Fantasy 6 or Final Fantasy Tactics or even much earlier titles.

Action RPGs have evolved MUCH more radically. This is just a fact. Hence, they're rightfully seen as a modern evolution of RPG that embodies more closely what people substitute with imagination when they play turn-based games.

the fact that turn-based games rely *much* more on the imagination, which they absolutely do.

When turn-based RPGs were widely used as the primary gameplay mechanic for RPGs, action RPGs were either impossible or much more limited in what they could achieve depending on the timeframe you're looking at. Now those limitations have disappeared, so the balance has shifted.

Final Fantasy draws significant inspiration from Dragon Quest, which, in turn, was an adaptation or simplification of Western computer role-playing games that aimed to replicate tabletop RPG experiences. This is why the term "RPG" came about. The fact that Final Fantasy is turn-based has nothing to do with "technical limitations". They were a stylistic choice from the beginning. Action RPGs were indeed possible and actually predate Final Fantasy.

Action RPGs aren't recent by any stretch of the imagination.

I fully agree that turn-based RPGs haven't evolved as much as they should have, but this has nothing to do with technological advancements. The combat system in Final Fantasy XVI (and games like Nier Automata) is evidently heavily influenced by titles like Devil May Cry. These types of games have existed since the PlayStation 2 era. Final Fantasy could have adopted a similar combat system at least two decades ago, spanning three console generations. However, it has chosen to do so only now as action RPGs have become more popular. It's a result of a shift in preference, not technology.

 

[Three]

What an absolutely despicable thing to say.

I think it's pretty obvious why s/he feels that way

 

[demigod]

It would be catastrophic for them if this performs worse than ffxv

Didn’t know you are SE’s CEO.

 

[GHG]

Crow is going to be served, clean, fresh, hot and delectably seasoned.

Just how everyone loves it.

 

[squallheart]

This is the first FF I have pre ordered in a long time and went all in on the collectors edition. I'm hoping it doesn't disappoint since I hated 13, remake was trash with their heartless crap and 15 what disappointment. I don't play Diablo and haven't cared for Zelda since the 64 so I'm not to concerned on the big purchase. Herr is hoping square turns things around or they will continue to pump trash like forespoken and foamstars

 

[TikiLagoonSam]

I haven’t preordered BUT Im extremely excited for it because this is a spiritual successor to the classic God Of War games. HOWEVER, im not sure if I will purchase it at launch for 2 reasons:

1. Tears of The Kingdom has my complete attention & excitement and wont be letting up for a while
2. I very rarely pay full price for games and think there will be a sale on it in some form a month or so after launch.

 

[Chukhopops]

I think it's pretty obvious why s/he feels that way

I’ve literally explained why, and so have many others.

Trying to reframe it as not liking ARPGs or console wars or whatever just shows people don’t want to accept other opinions.

 

[Danjin44]

I’ve literally explained why, and so have many others.

Trying to reframe it as not liking ARPGs or console wars or whatever just shows people don’t want to accept other opinions.

You are free to like or dislike whatever you want but actively wanted fail just crappy take.

 

[GigaBowser]

I hope that’s true and the game actually flops hard but I don’t believe it for a second.

I also don’t think it will sell nearly as well as FF15, bridges have been burnt and some people won’t come back.

beers on ice aint gonna take this crud we gots to support japanese developers

 

[DenchDeckard]

You absolutely do, considering how much you troll threads about a game you obviously hate.

Final Fantasy XV has sold over 10 million copies. "catastrophic" doesn't mean what you think it means. It certainly doesn't mean selling an undefined less than 10 million copies.



I wouldn't assume that Imran Khan isn't just talking out of his ass to draw attention to his Patreon.

If you think I have some vendetta to ff you are wrong. This is just not the game I wanted.

If xenoblade chronicles 3 can make such an incredible combat system and be an RPG. Square should be able to do tge same with FFXVI.

I was looking forward to a new current gen final fantasy that was a return to form and built an incredible combat system.

I didn't ask for a linear level driven action game.

If people enjoy it, that's great but people need to be able to handle and understand that there will be a subset of the franchises fans that feel like me....that doesn't make us trolls at all.

You don't like something in today's world? You're a troll....wtf happened there?

 

[Ceadeus]

Swearing fashionable knights in black leather armor.

Who wants to play this.

 

[Fess]

Turn based combat is just another combat system, some people enjoy it some don’t, its same as FPS which has be around for ages. None of them should

I hate this stupid ass extreme arguments for both side! I enjoy both ARPG and Turn based Combat I want both combat style exist and SE still making both.

Yeah the talk gets overly toxic at times, and I too enjoy both gameplay styles. I think it all boils down to a popular game or developer changing direction. Happened with Elden Ring, BOTW/TOTK, Halo Infinite, GTS, etc. Then there are people being down on games or wishing they’ll fail for exclusivity reasons as well. FF16 probably get some of that, Starfield too, and TOTK. Loud single platform owners are usually a cranky annoying bunch. As a fan you just have to bite your tongue and deal with that noise. It is what it is.

As for myself, I’ll play FF16 once I have the time but TOTK has swallowed my whole gaming interest right now. In general though, for role-playing I want as much strategy as possible, I want deep character building and all that as well. So it makes me sad that anything with bigger budget is always taking something away from my ultimate RPG formula. Like I love Elden Ring and there are lots of character build variations and awesome exploration and lots of cool gear and spells and different ways to play etc etc. But at the end you won’t reach the ending unless you’re good at action games, can’t say that’s a good thing even though it’s my #2 favorite game of all time, won’t ever say anything positive about having to retry a boss 50 times. It is what it is.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

beers on ice aint gonna take this crud we gots to support japanese developers

It's well and good. But Japanese developers also need to learn a thing or two from whatever caused downfall of Japanese market.

Instead, they are deploying same, failing tactics.

No PC version is a big failure. Also, what made old Final Fantasy games so good? Not sure if they understand that.

 

[Liamario]

Really enjoyed my time with FF7 remake. But I did not enjoy FFXV gameplay to be as fun or aesthetic to be as pleasing. What I've seen of XVI does not appeal to me at all. The gameplay looks very difficult to read, kind of like modern Tekken with the massive hit sparks.

 

[thief183]

They decided to go timed exclusive, so it is a no buy for me.

 

[Bernardougf]

FFXV was for me the worst AAA game I played in the ps4 generation, the last good FF that I really enjoyed was X ... and now they are selling a DMC game as a mainline final fantasy (as it seems)

So big NOP for me

And, preorders is a practice that should end, apart from a few first party titles (and not even that) early adopters have became QA/BETATESTERS, with games been released progressively more unfinished, needing more optimization, missing features as far as resolutions modes, content and with several bugs to iron out.

People have to wise up at some point

 

[tomato shrub]

This game

• Seems to be very polished
• Is not contaminated with season passes or DLC junk
• Doesn't transform your time playing into a sidejob
• Doesn't require a constant online connection?
• Is a self contained experience with a proper ending

If this game bombs, we're gonna get more FoamStars.

Yesterday I got a gifted code for Diablo 4. After I changed my accounts on Playstation, Blizzard locked me out of the game. And the reason I had to change accounts at all was because the connection during the Diablo Beta was so glitchy, I could only log in by making a new mule account.

What I'm trying to say: fuck online-only gaming, DRM shenanigans and all this shit - I'm rooting for a game like FF16 that's confident enough to be polished enough on disc, they didn't even think about patches/updates yet. Sadly, I'm not feeling much buzz/hype around FF16, but hopefully I'm wrong.

There is a lot of things going against FF16.

1. Diablo 4 releasing on the PS5. Diablo is a bigger game at this point and will take a lot of sales away from FF16.

2. Japan PS5 game sales are just underwhelming to say the least.

3. People are not buying new games as much because it is 70 dollars.

4. Timed exclusive on PS5 instead of releasing on Xbox and pc at the same time.

5. Previous FF games were underwhelming and damaged the FF brand.

Hard to disagree, except about the Xbox bit.

Also, not a huge thing, but the numbering might be hindrance to catch on with all the new audiences that Zelda, God of War, Resident Evil, connected with these days. I even have a core gamer friend who recently asked me whether the FF games connected and "wait so Cloud is only in part 7??".

 

[FunkMiller]

Lower pre order numbers for every game would be a great thing for the industry.

 

[kyussman]

This dude is a failed gaming “journalist” pulling shit from his ass.

He was a great cricketer though.

 

[Majukun]

you only care about pre orders if your game is bad.
if it's good, people will buy it once they realize it.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

This game

• Seems to be very polished
• Is not contaminated with season passes or DLC junk
• Doesn't transform your time playing into a sidejob
• Doesn't require a constant online connection?
• Is a self contained experience with a proper ending

If this game bombs, we're gonna get more FoamStars.

Yet some want this to fail.

I hope the people that don't want this to do well are ready for an industry that doesn't cater to them anymore.

 

[Abriael_GN]

If you think I have some vendetta to ff you are wrong. This is just not the game I wanted.

If xenoblade chronicles 3 can make such an incredible combat system and be an RPG. Square should be able to do tge same with FFXVI.

I was looking forward to a new current gen final fantasy that was a return to form and built an incredible combat system.

I didn't ask for a linear level driven action game.

If people enjoy it, that's great but people need to be able to handle and understand that there will be a subset of the franchises fans that feel like me....that doesn't make us trolls at all.

You don't like something in today's world? You're a troll....wtf happened there?

There's a difference between not liking something and haunting literally every thread dedicated to it. Disappointment and obsession are different things. You appear to heavily lean toward the latter.

Incidentally, this isn't a "linear level driven action game" and the disingenuity and reductiveness in the way you describe it shows your colors.

Final Fantasy draws significant inspiration from Dragon Quest, which, in turn, was an adaptation or simplification of Western computer role-playing games that aimed to replicate tabletop RPG experiences. This is why the term "RPG" came about. The fact that Final Fantasy is turn-based has nothing to do with "technical limitations". They were a stylistic choice from the beginning. Action RPGs were indeed possible and actually predate Final Fantasy.

Action RPGs aren't recent by any stretch of the imagination.

I fully agree that turn-based RPGs haven't evolved as much as they should have, but this has nothing to do with technological advancements. The combat system in Final Fantasy XVI (and games like Nier Automata) is evidently heavily influenced by titles like Devil May Cry. These types of games have existed since the PlayStation 2 era. Final Fantasy could have adopted a similar combat system at least two decades ago, spanning three console generations. However, it has chosen to do so only now as action RPGs have become more popular. It's a result of a shift in preference, not technology.

The action combat of Devil May Cry in the PS2 era offers a completely different level of spectacle compared to what it does today.

You don't have the slightest idea on what the decision to make Final Fantasy initially turn-based depended. It is a *fact* that action combat at that time was much less attractive due to technical limitations than it is now. It was clunky and much more expensive and challenging to develop. The fact that it was *possible* is irrelevant. Possible doesn't mean attractive or fitting.

Gameplay development trends are fluid, and "possible" and "impossible" are not the only two variables.

It is fitting now according to its developers, so that's what they do. You may want to give it a rest.

 

[Ic3man]

Bomba incoming, releasing only on one platform lmao

 

[Chukhopops]

You are free to like or dislike whatever you want but actively wanted fail just crappy take.

This is what steers companies’ decisions, what else can you do, sign petitions?

A few GaaS games are successful? Everyone jumps in the GaaS bandwagon. GaaS games start to crater? Everyone moves away from them, little by little. This is especially true for SE as they are a trend chasing company (they literally launched a Final Fantasy 7 Battle Royale game ffs).

There’s nothing wrong with wishing the industry would go one way or the other, and large successes / failures are what changes the industry.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

If you think I have some vendetta to ff you are wrong. This is just not the game I wanted.

If xenoblade chronicles 3 can make such an incredible combat system and be an RPG. Square should be able to do tge same with FFXVI.

I was looking forward to a new current gen final fantasy that was a return to form and built an incredible combat system.

I didn't ask for a linear level driven action game.

If people enjoy it, that's great but people need to be able to handle and understand that there will be a subset of the franchises fans that feel like me....that doesn't make us trolls at all.

You don't like something in today's world? You're a troll....wtf happened there?

I'm a big Xenoblade fan and XC3 is one of my fav games of all time, but I wouldn't say the combat system was incredible. It was very good, but also got very repetitive and had its flaws. I'd say FFVIIR and Persona 5 had more simple and enjoyable combat.

Anyway, we should let the developers try something new with XVI and see what the end result is. So far it looks amazing to me...

 

[Abriael_GN]

This is what steers companies’ decisions, what else can you do, sign petitions?

A few GaaS games are successful? Everyone jumps in the GaaS bandwagon. GaaS games start to crater? Everyone moves away from them, little by little. This is especially true for SE as they are a trend chasing company (they literally launched a Final Fantasy 7 Battle Royale game ffs).

There’s nothing wrong with wishing the industry would go one way or the other, and large successes / failures are what changes the industry.

There's absolutely a lot wrong with wishing years of work of hundreds of developers to fail because they're not making a game that suits your taste. It's an absolutely despicable take.

Incidentally, if you think that if this failed Square Enix would get the message "people don't want action-RPG Final Fantasy" you're absolutely and hilariously naive. Regardless of how badly this does in the worst-case scenario, it'll always sell better than their best-selling recent turn-based games, and not by a small margin.

 

[Chukhopops]

There's absolutely a lot wrong with wishing years of work of hundreds of developers to fail because they're not making a game that suits your taste. It's an absolutely despicable take.

Triple shrug. I’ve made my point enough times, feel free to disagree or call it whatever you want since that’s all you seem able to do.

And since you edited, this isn’t about turn-based or action RPG (for the 100th time already). Ys VIII / IX are action-based but you still have party members switching as a core mechanic. Stranger of Paradise is an action game through and through but you still have resource management. Tales of series are action-based but still have some strategy to them (the good ones at least).

Seeing it as just turn based vs action is just a stupid attempt at reframing the differences.

 

[A Most Virtuous Cat]

I am personally afraid of the lack of exploration and towns they have shown. I really hope it's not a glorified corridor slasher.

 

[sono]

I only know Imran Khan as the Pakistani politician and former cricket player

 

[ArtHands]

The directors latest comments indicate that he’s not entirely confident either.

Anyway, I’m sure I’ll get around to playing it but I can tell I’m not going to be enamoured by it. There isn’t much I’ve seen that’s wowed me or made me want it. Maybe when it hits Extra.

What's the latest comments from the directors?

 

[winjer]

Maybe it needs more NFTs....

 

[Ozriel]

If a game is tracking behind, you invest more in marketing that game, not tweeting about another game a year out.

This insider claim makes no sense. Not to mention it’s been amply marketed by Sony, so there’s nothing lacking in that direction. Hard to compare preorder numbers directly with the rise of digital.

If I have 1Gbps internet and I’m going digital, why in the world would I preorder ?

 

[Rykan]

The action combat of Devil May Cry in the PS2 era offers a completely different level of spectacle compared to what it does today.

What? The action combat in Devil May Cry during the PS2 era is absolutely comparable to its present-day iteration. In fact, Dante's move set in Devil May Cry 3 is almost identical to the one he possesses in Devil May Cry 4 & 5. Sure, there have been improvements in particle effects, resolution, textures, and lighting (which is true for every genre), but to suggest that Square Enix was specifically waiting for particle effects to improve is ridiculous. No sane person would look at combat systems like those in DMC, Ninja Gaiden, or God of War and say, “You know what? This combat system would work great in our game, but let's stick with turn-based combat because the particle effects aren't good enough.”

That's an utterly absurd perspective.

Moreover, they did create Action RPGs during that era. In fact, they made several.

You don't have the slightest idea on what the decision to make Final Fantasy initially turn-based depended.

I do. Anyone who has put in even a minimal effort to explore the history of RPGs understands the reasons.

It is a *fact* that action combat at that time was much less attractive due to technical limitations than it is now. It was clunky and much more expensive and challenging to develop. The fact that it was *possible* is irrelevant. Possible doesn't mean attractive or fitting.

EVERYTHING looked less attractive. What kind of utterly insane argument is that? Final Fantasy and DQs combat looked like trash compared to today standards as well.

Gameplay development trends are fluid, and "possible" and "impossible" are not the only two variables.

It is fitting now according to its developers, so that's what they do. You may want to give it a rest.

Why? This conversation has been incredibly entertaining. It's very enjoyable to watch you come up with the most bizarre explanations to try to justify how the decision to move towards action combat is entirely due to technical limitations.

Well, that, or you could just accept the logical explanation that the audience that Final Fantasy once appealed to has shrunk, which forced the developers to appeal to a more global audience that prefers action combat over turn-based combat. But perhaps that's just a bit too sensible for you.