Support NeoGAF

[GameSeeker]

Focusing on the hardcore gamer makes tremendous financial and marketing sense.

1) Hardcore gamers are far more profitable than casuals. Every study done shows that hardcore gamers spend far more money on games than casuals. So you would rather have one hardcore gamer as your customer than several casual gamers. For the PS2 generation, Sony owned the hardcore gamer and so was very profitable. For PS3 generation, Microsoft stole many hardcore gamers to Xbox 360, so Sony made significantly less. Sony wants to change that with PS4.
2) Sony's strategy is a multi-year strategy. Launch prices (say between $400-500) are not going to be paid by a casual gamer. On the other hand, the hardcore gamer will stand in line in the rain to get the opportunity to buy one. Over the course of a few years Sony will reduce the price and make it affordable to a casual gamer.
3) Sony has a casual gamer strategy that they will promote after they can cost reduce the product in a few years. For casuals it will be an Entertainment Device, not just a gaming console. The Entertainment Device can do: Internet TV (Netflix, Hulu, Amazon, etc.), social media (Facebook, Google+, etc.), play DVD & Blu-ray, play downloadable $0.99 games like Apple iOS, browse the web, video chat, and, if you really want, play $60 AAA titles. The idea is that PS3 can do everything Apple TV and Google TV can do, plus play games.

 

[i-Lo]

Given their aim to allow for self publishing and pricing allied with remote play, I think they are catering a broad market.

 

[Punkster_NY]

Well that was kind of the point of Gaikai, right? To be able to play these types of games on other devices like handhelds and tablets. So how is Sony not embracing these new changes?

 

[Herb Alpert]

You think it's a shame that people are picking devices with more functionality?

No, I think it's a shame cause touch controls are and will remain shitty, it's a shame cause the business model is currently about quantity, with a lot of rip-off and plagiarism.
Tablets are seen the same way a lot of publishers saw the wii, cheap, shitty casuals games. the micro transaction, free to play is a shame. look at Square enix.

having a device that can do ANYTHING is a myth imho. And i don't like the idea of companies such as Google or Apple having control on the content as well as the physical device that delivers it.

tablets can have a lot of useful features, though none that a simpler netbook can offer. But Gaming is not one of them, apart from sudoku when commuting.

edit : sorry, a bit off topic

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

Casual gamers have options now, and you won't win them by default simply because they have nowhere else to go.

Yes, they're far more difficult to capture (and keep) than core gamers and the mainstream CoD/Madden/GTA crowd.

 

[Anth0ny]

I don't think it's going to sell as much as anything did this current gen, but it (and the 720) will still get the dudebro dollars. and that market is pretty fucking huge.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

They probably need to show a strategy for getting casual gamers at e3 or the PS4 might struggle because of it.

Their efforts in getting those gamers on-board has seemed disinterested at best for the last several years so I'm not sure they're going to have a strategy though.

 

[Raven77]

No, I think it's a shame cause touch controls are and will remain shitty....

This

 

[rrs]

Watch E3 have a equal mix of PS Move and "hardcore" games. Same for Microsoft too, and their pre-E3 announcement mirror Sony's with a lack of Kinect casualness.

 

[gutter_trash]

gamers are the ones who plunk money on day one games, monitor the PSN store for new digital releases and DLC and etc.

Casuals don't plunk that much money on software and digital content.

 

[Concept17]

I think its the right move because no one else will be doing the same thing. People who spend time and money on games don't just play mobile games, they play consoles/PC. There is a gazillion gamers out there, so long as they appeal to them, they'll find plenty of success.

The biggest difference between the market now and 6-10 years ago is mobile game development. Those games are nowhere near enough to sustain the industry or hold the interest of people actually enjoy video games. Sony also realizes chasing the casual people who are fine with little iOS games is a hopeless endeavor, as few of them are likely to go out of their way to purchase a console and games in its place.

They're focusing on what they do best, and that happens to be a market with a huge consumer base. The hype for PS4 is already leagues better than PS3, they'll do fine.

 

[GashPrex]

I don't understand the need for them to be mutually exclusive - I believe either Sony or MS could target both audiences effectively and I think their new machines need to be focused on both. I think it would be a mistake to ignore the casual market - even if any mention of it makes GAF go insane.

 

[noah111]

No, it's a short term strategy. They will appeal to the core early, get the userbase up, and the price of components will drop quickly for a variety of reasons (the Durango will use them, they're basically PC parts). Then they can go after the casuals. I'd be worried about a Sony strategy targeting the casuals with even a $399 box, which, being honest, is the lowest any new console was going to come in at for Sony without subsidization.

I want to say it's the Vita strategy except that third parties will actually make games on PS4, and that there is a proven "premium game" console market compared to handhelds.

Exactly. It's still risky, though. I honestly think none of this shit matters if MS's advertising campaign ends up being brutally good.

We all know what the power of word of mouth and good ads can do, regardless of the actual products competing.

 

[FordGTGuy]

This

There are plenty of other examples of this also, you can actually control a Android tablet with a DS3 without much effort.

 

[Herb Alpert]

one of the greater dangers for PS4 (and 720) are the cross gen games imo.
People will buy the games on the platform they already own.

 

[Nealand Liquor]

The 360 is where it is (in NA) BECAUSE of the 'Core' gamer. All of these reporters, analysts, company strategists & console makers that are betting on and chasing the fickle casual at the expense of the core, are in for a rude dose of reality this gen.

Everything from early adoption, hype, attachment rates, word of mouth and success rests directly on the support of the core gamer. It's a huge mistake to not focus a large majority of efforts on the core market, as not doing runs the risk losing the core focusing on you.

If the rumors surrounding MS's next console are true (always online,i blocked used games, much weaker system, focus on media entertainment at the expense of gaming, no changes to live), I would bet on MS losing a great deal of ground they gained this gen. I hope MS isn't overstating the importance of our gamertags/gamerscore by believing we will sacrifice our gaming experience for a bunch of numbers.

 

[blitzcloud]

I'm not sure I understand your comparison of PS4 and high end graphic cards. Outside of its RAM, PS4 has pretty average specs.

average PC specs work wonders on consoles. You can't directly compare what those specs would mean on Windows to a console.

The idea is that if there's a market that loves graphics and buys $400 and over price, why wouldn't there be a market for the gamers that buy a full package with (from what we've seen) very good graphics console that comes in a very neat package of features.

 

[Gorillaz]

They just need "us" to gain thr install base. After words I see them heavily going after the mainstream.

 

[kinggroin]

No clue honesty. It certainly may he shrinking.


Oh well. Live by the sword die by the sword.

 

[Risette]

No, I think it's a shame cause touch controls are and will remain shitty, it's a shame cause the business model is currently about quantity, with a lot of rip-off and plagiarism.
Tablets are seen the same way a lot of publishers saw the wii, cheap, shitty casuals games. the micro transaction, free to play is a shame. look at Square enix.

having a device that can do ANYTHING is a myth imho. And i don't like the idea of companies such as Google or Apple having control on the content as well as the physical device that delivers it.

But you're okay where Microsoft/Sony/Nintendo have complete control and deliberately make it harder for smaller developers to develop for their systems? Laughable.

tablets can have a lot of useful features, though none that a simpler netbook can offer. But Gaming is not one of them, apart from sudoku when commuting.

edit : sorry, a bit off topic

Nah, Cave games on iOS are a far greater gaming experience than most games on consoles -- mostly save for the Cave ports on consoles which I can play with their native control scheme. They're pretty good at games.

Also, netbooks are abominable pieces of shit. The user experience is nothing like tablets.

 

[metalslimer]

I'm starting to think that the so called huge hype for next gen may not even exist. I excitedly ran off to show my friends (yes I know anecdotal) the PS4 reveal and none of them seemed to care about what was shown. There is a possibility people are overestimating the amount of people not satisfied with the current consoles. It could also be they would be more interesting in whatever MS has to shown since they're in the Live ecosystem

 

[test_account]

Doesnt seem to me like their betting the farm on the core gamers only. Tretton said in the Forbes intreview that they knew most of the people watching the live stream would be gamers, so they focused mostly on that part. I'm sure that the PS4 will have all the multimedia stuff like Netflix and all that as well.

 

[grumble]

You have the families that buy a console for the family to play some games together, this group is unlikely to invest a whole lot in software unless the purchase of the console triggers one of the younger members of the family to pick it up as a hobby which moves that member to the 'core' gamers.

I disagree. There's a big weakness in the console market this generation with local multiplayer games. There are very few, and the few that there are have tended to be poor quality. It's an obvious win for the console maker with the brains to craft a few fun multiplayer experiences (smash brothers, mario kart, etc). This gets consoles in homes, but more importantly for next gen gets the SERVICES in homes. The services are where they make the money; rent a movie, watch a TV show, pay a monthly subscription, whatever. IF they make the purchasing experiences incredibly convenient and simple for non-tech oriented people with a low tolerance for effort, they could make a lot of money off these mid-attach segments.

Sony does not have a lot of expertise in making their purchasing systems convenient however; their PS3 implementation has been poor. If they don't come back with a brilliant, integrated store in their OS they will have fucked themselves especially since MS will definitely do so.

 

[Tex117]

Why does every analyst always assume that the purchase of Angry Birds and the casual market is mutually exclusive from "core" gamers.

Like there is any core gamer out there who is debating a puchase between Angry Birds and some Military Shooter, walking away and saying...Man, Im sure glad I bought Angry Birds.

Analysts need to get off the nutsack of Apple (and really, the whole "App" thing is lead by apple, with Android coming in a close second). Is there money to be made? Absolutely. But there is also plenty of "gamers" who GASP like playing games who will eat up a powerful gaming consoler.

On the flip side, I don't think there are many casual gamers who are honestly debating buying Call of Duty.

 

[metalslimer]

Doesnt seem to me like their betting the farm on the core gamers only. Tretton said in the Forbes intreview that they knew most of the people watching the live stream would be gamers, so they focused mostly on that part. I'm sure that the PS4 will have all the multimedia stuff like Netflix and all that as well.

Well of course it's going to stuff like Netflix. Everyone has that stuff. The question is what they do outside of the stuff that literally everyone else offers.

On the flip side, I don't think there are many casual gamers who are honestly debating buying Call of Duty.

I think you would be very surprised then.

 

[Manmademan]

Doesnt seem to me like their betting the farm on the core gamers only. Tretton said in the Forbes intreview that they knew most of the people watching the live stream would be gamers, so they focused mostly on that part. I'm sure that the PS4 will have all the multimedia stuff like Netflix and all that as well.

netflix, amazon streaming, music unlimited etc were all explicitly mentioned as something that would be able to be streamed to any platform (or at least the vita) via gaikai, sony just didn't spend a whole lot of time on it.

Well of course it's going to stuff like Netflix. Everyone has that stuff. The question is what they do outside of the stuff that literally everyone else offers.

sony is sitting on about 10 thousand games or so exclusive to it's platform (and not say, IOS or the android market), that can be streamed to any platform that has a wi fi signal. This is a pretty significant service.

 

[Septimius]

I bought 6 PS3 consoles, 4 X360 consoles, 2 Wiis and multiple controllers for each last gen - for different TVs in my house, not to replace broken consoles.

I bought about 70 physical games for 360 and 55 physical games for PS3, I even managed to find 8 games worth buying on Wii.

I have around 70 XBLA/Games on Demand and 30 PSN games as well.

How many casuals and soccer moms would Sony have to sell to equal one hardcore gamer like me?

6 PS3 consoles for "different TVs in your house"? Sounds like you should just get a backpack with a huge battery and a PS3, and a HMD-Z1. That's just flat-out ridiculous. So no, you're not a market Sony can support itself on.

 

[ironcreed]

I'm starting to think that the so called huge hype for next gen may not even exist. I excitedly ran off to show my friends (yes I know anecdotal) the PS4 reveal and none of them seemed to care about what was shown. There is a possibility people are overestimating the amount of people not satisfied with the current consoles.

It's early yet. Just wait until closer to release and especially when games like COD come out. You can bet your ass people will be buying the new consoles in droves. The hype is only going to grow from here and Microsoft announcing their next console will only help them both.

 

[Herb Alpert]

But you're okay where Microsoft/Sony/Nintendo have complete control and deliberately make it harder for smaller developers to develop for their systems? Laughable.


Nah, Cave games on iOS are a far greater gaming experience than most games on consoles -- mostly save for the Cave ports on consoles which I can play with their native control scheme. They're pretty good at games.

Also, netbooks are abominable pieces of shit. The user experience is nothing like tablets.

You have a point. The fact that Sony and Nintendo are making things easier for the smaller developper is a good consequence of these market changes.

 

[Hana-Bi]

I think Casual gamers probably buy just one console. So if MS or Sony show them first why those "Casuals" should buy their console, they probably have a nice head start.

The mainstream media and news are treating Sonys event as an event for gamers and that Sony made a console just for them. Does this appeal to Casuals? No. Why should it? Casuals don't want to spend hundreds of dollars for games and also hundreds of dollars just for one console which just plays games.

 

[test_account]

I'm starting to think that the so called huge hype for next gen may not even exist. I excitedly ran off to show my friends (yes I know anecdotal) the PS4 reveal and none of them seemed to care about what was shown. There is a possibility people are overestimating the amount of people not satisfied with the current consoles. It could also be they would be more interesting in whatever MS has to shown since they're in the Live ecosystem

I think things will be different once the release date is getting much closer. Personally i cant really be super excisted about next gen at this point because i know there is a long wait ahead. But when there is less than a month left to release and we have seen a lot more from the upcoming games, knowing the launch lineup and all that, i'm pretty sure that i will be a lot more excited, and i think that goes for a lot of other people as well

Well of course it's going to stuff like Netflix. Everyone has that stuff. The question is what they do outside of the stuff that literally everyone else offers.

In terms of other stuff, what can be done? I guess maybe something like a built-in DVR, like TiVo or Torne/Nasne (those DVR things for PS3 in Japan).

netflix, amazon streaming, music unlimited etc were all explicitly mentioned as something that would be able to be streamed to any platform (or at least the vita) via gaikai, sony just didn't spend a whole lot of time on it.

Indeed.

 

[RooMHM]

Early adopters are always experts or a special population that could be considered as a "niche". When Apple releases a new device they first appeal to the members of the sect and then the wide population starts to buy it (for example in France, phones are partly subsidised by the subscription to an operator in return to the binding to the brand for 1 or 2 years and most people get phones this way).

 

[Woo-Fu]

Sony isn't "betting the farm" in the first place. Kind of makes the article pointless, doesn't it?

 

[dragonbane]

Ehm Sony is supporting F2P and price ranges from $0.99-60 on their network. Microtransactions are possible. They are pushing digital and social features heavily. But in the beginning you need the core gamer, they are the ones that buy a console on Day 1. This audience is still there. Sony will get the rest later. Their operating income is probably down because they didn't release any successful games last year, not because of the market.

 

[Shadow of the BEAST]

I don't think this is impossible, but I'd add that hey need those "casual" games to be front and center showpieces.

Treating the "casual" games as secondary concerns like Eyetoy or Singstar will simply not be sufficient. These types of games will need to be given the AAA treatment a la Wii Fit and Kinect.

In this market, treating casuals as a secondary concern -- as a group that can jump on board if they want to but they aren't the main focus -- won't compete against your iPads and Browser games and other portables which put casuals in the drivers seat and treat them as the stars of the show.

Casual gamers have options now, and you won't win them by default simply because they have nowhere else to go.

So you are saying they should abandon the traditional playstation market?

Because that is what they have to do if they go after the casual.

 

[elostyle]

I don't think core gamers and free to play games are mutually exclusive and it sounds like they are building an infrastructure to support both and get players into games ASAP.

I appreciate the focus on games and do not think that means it's automatically limited to people accustomed to paying $60 for retail games.

 

[MrCookiepants]

What the fuck is going on with the media lately. I'm tired of reading this garbage.

 

[IonicSnake]

I think Sony targeting the ones that would buy the PS4 day one is really smart imo. I don't see this "gamers would buy it anyway so they should focus on the others" excuse a good one. They should keep the ones that will be there day one for the console happy.

So yes, I think Sony is smart at targeting the day 1 crowd before going after the casuals that only look at a gaming console once it hits 199$.

 

[Bad_Boy]

if anything sony is aiming at the ones who bought the ps2. not a bad plan imo.

 

[nib95]

Firstly, they are not betting the farm. As the event showed, they're promoting social features and still committed to casual gaming, as well as future convergence with the rest of their tech Inc tablets, phones etc. So the article in the OP conveniently glossed over that whether through negligence or for sensationalist effect.

Secondly, I genuinely believe they are pursuing the correct strategy, though I could be wrong. The 15 million people who buy stuff like COD are never going to fully commit to mobile gaming, because the control mechanisms just aren't precise enough and thus not competitive enough, and add to that a big screen experience will always top the small screen experience for the media savvy or core gamers. They are still a huge market, and a reliable one unlike casuals which can drift from fad to fad (see the Wii, Wii U, Zynga etc etc).

People are saying core and hardcore gamers are a short term market, I disagree. I think chasing casuals is short term and far more difficult since tastes and flavours change all the time, whilst core gamers are a staple.

 

[Rolloland]

Hardcore console can play hardcore games ... and casual games.

Casual console can play casual games ... but not hardcore games.

Boom.

 

[JimmyRustler]

From all the consoles that were released so far only one "non-gamer" console has made it to the top: The Wii. And even that one was struggling once the hype died down.
All gens before that the console with the best games has always won the game.

That said, I think Sony is doing the right thing. The true gamers are the ones that build the foundation of each console. And if you don't have a solid foundation, the whole thing is going to collapse sooner or later.

 

[entremet]

Casuals have moved on the iOS, Facebook, etc. Look at Nintendo's struggles of late.

That said I don't think PS4 will be a big hit at all.

if anything sony is aiming at the ones who bought the ps2. not a bad plan imo.

The PS2 was a long, long time ago. I doubt the PS4 will reach the a mass market piece anytime soon as well. That's why the PS2 was successful, it was able to get to a decent price really quickly.

Moreover, they're much more competition--tablets, smartphones, etc.

 

[Coolwhip]

Hardcore console can play hardcore games ... and casual games.

Casual console can play casual games ... but not hardcore games.

Boom.

One is expensive, one is cheap.

Boom.

 

[tha_devil]

Console launches are always aimed at core gamers. Casuals dont want to pay a high price. Only when the price goes now and the sing stars and just dances are there they will go out and buy it. Also, we as core gamers are ambassadors for the system.

Now i do wonder, how many owners of a ps3 are core gamers (its hard to define, but i think core gamers are people who at least buy 12 games a year which dont consist of casual crap).

 

[AznSniper]

Sony just really needs to tap into that 150+ million market of PS2s sold in the world.

 

[Agent Ironside]

Firstly, they are not betting the farm. As the event showed, they're promoting social features and still committed to casual gaming, as well as future convergence with the rest of their tech Inc tablets, phones etc. So the article in the OP conveniently glossed over that whether through negligence or for sensationalist effect.

Secondly, I genuinely believe they are pursuing the correct strategy, though I could be wrong. The 15 million people who buy stuff like COD are never going to fully commit to mobile gaming, because the control mechanisms just aren't precise enough and thus not competitive enough, and add to that a big screen experience will always top the small screen experience for the media savvy or core gamers. They are still a huge market, and a reliable one unlike casuals which can drift from fad to fad (see the Wii, Wii U, Zynga etc etc).

People are saying core and hardcore gamers are a short term market, I disagree. I think chasing casuals is short term and far more difficult since tastes and flavours change all the time, whilst core gamers are a staple.

Yes. We are the base for both consoles, you start with us and work your way out to other type of gamers. We are the most consistent type of gamer, you don't win us over, than your base can fall apart at the drop of a hat.

A business plan based on what's trending at that moment is weak.

 

[Dennis]

What the fuck is going on with the media lately. I'm tired of reading this garbage.

They went full retard it seems, even though you are not supposed to do that.

 

[alexandros]

I think its the right move because no one else will be doing the same thing.

Well Valve's box will be even more focused on the core gamer, assuming it actually sees the light of day at some point.

I think Casual gamers probably buy just one console.

I think the biggest fear of both Sony and Microsoft is that casual gamers will not buy either console. People need to remember that 8 years ago you didn't have a lot of alternatives if you wanted to game. Basically you had to choose between PC and console, so naturally casual gamers flocked to consoles because of their low price and various innovations )like the Wiimote).

Now the landscape is different. Tablets and smartphones have the cool factor and they offer pretty good gaming for a very low price. There are tons of PC games with little to no barrier of entry. Casual gamers have a choice between playing whatever is available on devices that they likely already own, or pay a significant amount of money in order to purchase a specialized gaming device.

Core gamers will buy PCs and consoles. Casual gamers, I'm afraid, are likely to ignore these new platforms. So the question is: Can console gaming survive without the casuals?

 

[Rick Dangerous]

There is definitely a huge difference playing on my 42" HDTV and my iPhone.
There is a market of gamers and tech enthousiasts.
The thing is that they could not come since ps3 was terribly flawed and underpowered for what it was trying to acheive.
It's like digital camera. Once they hit a certain level of quality, It went through the roof. Same with tablets.
Same now with consoles.

I remeember the time when games were €25 for my amiga and atari ST. And now I can get a game 10x better for a third of that.

Best time ever to play. I waited so long for this.
Since I played Stuntcar racer.

The thing is the market is maybe not big enough for 2 big players. And I think the 3rd console curse will strike this time MS badly.

Last point : I expect there is no issue providing standard multimedia features with a 8GB machine.