Is there a concerted effort to tear down Naughty Dog

Get rid of duckman and bring back based Amy and i'll support them again
Amy is a free agent, why can't she make her own hits? Its another thing, people need to understand that one person can't make a game. At least not games on the level of ND's output....I too like AMY but ND has not fallen since she left, just as ND will not fall because some of their devs move to other studios. I think what is tantamount to ND's success is the culture of the studio, you get to a prestigious place like ND, you have to put in the work at a high level...….

Amy was just one person on the team, no doubt her direction was very important to achieve the vision of the game, but the entire team is what drives the games, everybody has to do their part.
All that's happened is they've become a convenient lightning rod for several groups looking too push their own agenda/narrative.

To be specific:

1. Platform warriors. ND is Sony's flagship studio and as such present a tempting target to be taken down, particularly on the cusp of a new generation. Every GOTY nomination and win ND gets is like a nail in the heart to to these losers, too dumb to realize that the things "holding back" their platform of choice are not what the other team is doing.

2. Anti-SJW/"Woke" activists. These guys are going after Druckmann the same way the leftists went after Vavra and Soret. They won't accept that fact, the same way the leftiists refused to accept that their similarity to the religious right back in the 80's.

They justify their shitty behavior and attitiudes to themelves as a neccessary step to defeating ideological opponents who pose an existential threat to civilization.

Sound familiar? It should do. cos they are all the same, and they all suck.

3. Assorted hangers-on and opportunists. The most notable of which are the Jim Stirlings of this world, the types who like to make a big stink over issues and ask you to feed the tips jar on the way out. Whores basically. The most obnoxious part of the schtick however is the way that they always (fraudulently) assume the moral high-ground. Those people are always terrible... protest them its the right thing to do. Like and subscribe. Fakes.

4. The last group are inflamed fanboys/fangirls who mistakenly believe they have a greater ownership of the IP they are attached to than its creators. Basically obsessives who in many cases demonstrate a tenuous grasp on reality. Their defining (unpleasant) trait however is the way that they demand that their whims are catered to, and that failure to do so constitutes betrayal. Deranged and fevered egotists that they are.

These groups aren't discrete and there's a lot of overlap (think venn-diagram) however the commonality between all of them is that they are desperate to impose their collective wills on the world and are more than ready to torch anyone who stands in their way.

Cunts basically.
Good points, but I like Jim Sterling.....I think people take him way too seriously. I think he is funny no matter who he criticizes and the cue would be that there is always a level of humor involved in his rants. Have not seen him get pissy, but if he does, it's probably because of the lynch mob hitting him about his weight and looks when he criticizes something or some company they favor. It boils down to the same thing, they try to discredit the person and not the argument. Yet this is what YouTube jobbing is all about, getting the hits. At least with Jim he does some research first. Many youtubers just post controversial stories without any background checks, the views is more important to them....

I respect your opinion but are films not art as well? Plus I don't think just playing once and them moving onto the next thing is my style either. I've replayed Naughty Dog games (and others) loads, can't beat going back to an old classic.

Perhaps it's the genre you play, but for Horror games say theres a reason people keep going back to Resident Evil 4 and Silent Hill 2 etc. All games are not created equally.
I dont think games can be considered as unimportant fluff as that poster was insinuating. Games are very important entertainment for millions and even billions. Of course there will be passion for it, like in any form of entertainment which has such a following. People are drawn to many aspects of games beyond the actual gameplay. Some people play for the interactive story, some people follow and anticipate the story's progression in sequels. some people love the characters, game mechanics and adore some of the gameworlds in said games......It's escapism, but more than that now since story lines are really deep these days. Watch how people still talk about what transpired in Metal Gear and people argue either way and reveal something in the game that others didn't notice before or have their own perspectives on why Snake did this or whatever, who is hte actual villain, is Ocelot a bad guy etc.... It's our hobby, no one should be ashamed of it. Play and move on is not exactly how I see gaming, there is lots to discuss and talk about the medium....
 
Sony and Nintendo have being the paragons of gaming since ever. Nintendo started after Atari era with Nes and Snes. PS1 and PS2 put the gaming market for everyone. Wii brought the games for the non gamer. PS4 once again awakened the traditional gamer and now Switch is doing the same.
It is always them. Nintendo is just older than Sony in the gaming market, but they have as much recognition as a synonym of videogame.

When we talk about ND we talk about the most sucessful critically awarded first party developer over the past 12, 13 years. Their 2 new ips (Uncharted and TLoU) were awarded as Goty. They are on top for a long time and no first party from nintendo and microsoft had the same kind of sucess. This is a motive for console wars cause people are crazy.

Anyway, I do believe in cycles. Nothing lasts forever. If its the time for ND we can only wait.

I agree that Nintendo have been in the game (no pun intended) longer but that surely means they've done more for the industry and have an extra 10 years of games (which created and defined genres no less) to draw on.

Even ignoring Nintendo's hardware and the part they played in genre advancement, I would put the likes of Super Mario Galaxy, Metroid Prime 3, Skyward Sword, Super Mario Galaxy 2, Mario Kart 7, Super Mario 3D Land, A Link Between Worlds, Smash Bros 3DS, Kid Icarus Uprising, Mario Kart 8, Pikmin 3, Super Mario 3D World, Breath of the Wild, Splatoon 2, Super Mario Odyssey, Animal Crossing New Horizons, Luigi's Mansion 3 and Smash Bros Ultimate (that's just off the top of my head I'm sure there's many more I've missed) up against the 4.5 Uncharted games and TLOU in terms of game vs game quality from the past 15 years.

I don't think it's even a competition tbh. There's not another company that can rival Nintendo's first party output which is why they can sell 60 million $300 consoles off the back of it alone.
 
There is definitely some stupid console war bullshit at play especially with the fake news about a made up senior ND employee leaving for MS' Double Fine but I don't think it's coordinated. It's just fanboys doing what fanboys do mixed in with possible FUD.
 
I'm looking at several instances of people trying to diminish their work.

I would say there is a concerted effort, but it's not to tear them down. Rather, they've been taken over. The same thing has begun at Rockstar, where you will see key individuals departing for the next year or two while the company starts to turn over a new leaf in certain aspects of its creative productions.

I consider that a concerted effort when folks with certain ideological agendas deliberately target large video game publishers with their sights set on HR.

Like, why build a big sparkly successful SJW game publisher when you can just transform existing ones into making that stuff.
 
I don't think you can really extrapolate an entire game based a spoiler video.

If 90 minutes of leaked footage aren't enough to justify an opinion, why are 30 minutes of official footage suddenly enough to form one ?

I very much doubt the entire plot of the game was exposed and I'm sure there is some context people are missing. I really don't understand why people wont respect a studio enough to play through on their own before judgement or allow the reviewers you trust to give their verdict.

How about because resources - time and money - are scarce?

People judging TLOU 2 now based on these leaks seems really forced to me, it's like they were never really interested and waiting for something to pounce on......

This is where your bias show.

You're complaining about the fraction of people wo took a look and didn't like what they watched. But you're not complaining about those who did take a peek but decided the game was their cup of tea. To you the problem isn't deciding based off on leaks. It only seems to be a problem when one decides to skip the game this time around and criticize it. Going though leaked material and then proceeding to praise it and pre-order it, now that gets a free pass from you.

Especially those who say they were the biggest ND fan and are now cancelling their pre-orders. Anyone can order a game and cancel it for whatever reasons, even fake that they are fans and give their take,

This is such a bizarre point.
How many people out of all of those complaining have you seen posting pre-order cancelation screengrabs?

the extremes some will go to. Yet, I don't see how you are a huge fan of ND and you know story is big for ND games and still went to watch spoilers.

A number of reasons.

I've read people admitting they succumbed to unrefrainable curiosity. Others have said they're rather short on cash and wanted to check the game extensively before commuting to it.

It's just does not make much sense, since you would want to experience that on your own playthrough fresh.
Already addressed.

Like this for e.g, if this is not sarcasm that is....

Their last two main games was 92% and 93% on Meta and they both sold boatloads. Top of your game means your games are reviewing well and selling even better.

I predict TLoU2 will review and sell extremely well.

If you don't like most ND games that's fine, but you can't judge a game until it's released.

I most certainly can.

What would even be the point of official promo material if that were the case? Official trailers and gameplay demos seek to persuade people to buy a videogame on cursory first impressions. If cursory first impressions can be the basis of a purchase, they can also lead to a decision to skip the game this time around. Why wouldn't you be able to reach the opposite conclusion based off on a leak that's thrice as long as all the official material put together?

I can judge art direction - I won't play games whose art direction I dislike -, I can get a sample of the voice acting, I can get a feel for the dialogue, whether it is on the nose or not, I can asses graphics, etc.

People do this everyday. People infer. They don't go around buying everything that might interest them. They make judgement calls every day. Videogames are not special in this regard.

. The issue is when people believe they need to wage a war because of it,

The belligerency I've witnessed first hand from those who're criticizing the game seems to be right on par with that of those defending it. This thread is no different from countless others criticizing ND or TLoU2, not in its tone, not in its contrarian nature.

they didn't like some direction of story in one of the games and they pretend as if the gameplay in UC has changed and they cant play anymore.. One guy is even upset that Nadine beats Drake, these little things are meaningless as reasons to fight a studio...

Certainly, those are meaningless to you.

But because it's their money and their time being spent, they should base the decision on their preferences, not on yours.

The leaks is not representative of 20-30 hours of a game.

To even be able to know that, you would've to have A) watched the footage - but didn't you just criticize people who watched it a moment ago? and B) know how the full game plays out - and you don't know that, do you?

Therefore, that's a speculative baseless claim.

People can buy or not buy ND games, that's not my issue.

You could have fooled me.

My issue is the reasons people give, how are you judging an unreleased product. People saying that the leak is why they went from the biggest fan to the most critical does not make much sense. You are so annoyed that you are willing to miss probably the best game this generation because you are against a certain story line or one snippet of the story arch. I would nto call such persons fans, they are only hiding behind that guise....

Yes, and that would show the extent to which a storyline and/or politics are important to them. Not to you, but to them. They are the ones making the decision, according to their values and preferences, not yours.

This is bizarre, because on one hand you claim this is all subjective but then you refuse to accept the natural consequences of that subjectivity.

I'm all up for choice and people liking what they like, but there is no truth to these radical 180's......

Translation: "People can like what they like, up until the point I cease to understand it".

It's like your favorite/most anticipated movie is coming to cinema, you've seen all the trailers, all your friends say they are going to watch it and it looks great, but then when you get to the cinema door, one guy says to you, this happens in the beginning of the movie, the movie sucks. You turn and go home and say you are massively dissapointed, this does not compute...

That's a lousy analogy.

90 minutes of leaked material are not equivalent to that, not in the least.

Still, ND hate and people trying to diminish their games, their review scores, their numerous GOTY's, their sales, the graphics they push, the stories they tell is nothing new.....It's been consistent and widespread against ND for years. Cue any thread where people say UC4 and LL are the best looking games they've seen, an ND game is the best they've played or any thread where people praise ND or where they reach another milestone in sales. Hating on ND has nothing to do with the leak, it's mostly people hating on their success and the quality games they've been pushing for a while now. ND has always delivered on some of the best looking games, best reviewed and some of the most well received games relative to sales. Their characters and animation work and general tech has always been on point forever. Crash and Jak was just straight bonkers back in the day and it's the same now with their current games, pushing the envelope......People want to tear them down through poaching, such a big studio of course some people will be disgruntled, working at such a studio, the expectation from employees is high, you are not working on bad rats 3......So people want to see them fall because of that longstanding and consistent success, but sometimes I think we are against ourselves in this industry, our own worst enemies by allowing our console affiliations to set narratives in motion that we know not to be true. ND is a great studio, LOU 2 is their biggest game, they needed more people to work on it, it's not like all the good people have left, that's far from the truth. Allow the game to do the talking as opposed to smear it with "what I saw in the leaks" is the worse sin ever imagined, ND will never be forgiven types of hyperbole and fake news. Let people judge for themselves and read proper reviews when the time is right.....

I keep waiting for hard evidence for that concerted attack on ND.
You keep failing to deliver it.

Unsubstantiated claims can be readily dismissed.

Also, people should really read on other studios which had/have a high quality ceiling. Shigeru Miyamoto/Nintendo was/is no joke when it came to what they expect from their employees. You don't make the best games by just coming in and doing the normal 8 hours, you have to push beyond that. We currently have a culture, where people complain about everything, they want to do the most minimal tasks, hardly accomplish their targets, but are always at the forefront of wanting higher salaries and benefits.....This world is much too competitive for normal and underserving employees and efforts. You need drive and ambition and for people not to be lazy to succeed....I think the current culture of people simply "talking smack online and on Youtube" and getting paid, the social influencers, only fans, people mailing soiled panties have caused people to believe this is how life should work. Then of course any disgruntled employee who got the axe, discord goon or person with an agenda can go on twitter and wage his war/fud there......There is no shortage of avenues to direct an attack these days, and lets be honest, our so called game journalists are mostly Youtube people now, they love a controversial story and will even make mountains out of mole-hills to secure the hits.......Then LOU 2 drops and everybody loves it and it gets great accolades and the cycle continues....Then you say, but the leak said, this journalist said, this former disgruntled dev said...Yet by now, we should know that the level of honesty and sincerity within the vestiges of current journalism is long gone. It's all about the hits now and anything goes towards that end...

I'm for developers deciding whether or not they'll crunch and then for them to face the ensuing music. The people on Resetera bashing ND for allegedly overworking their employees and calling for a boycott just don't strike me as working hand-in-hand with people around here complaining about the swerve the storyline seems to have taken.

So not only do we not have any concrete evidence that a concerted attack is happening, we also have a hint that it isn't concerted at all.

You'll have to do much better if you want to convince people on a rational basis.
 
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IMO Naughty Dog just don't do anything special.

Gameplay is run of the mill TPS. Does absolutely nothing new or interesting.

Storywise their games offer nothing more than the same old generic bullshit we've seen in Hollywood movies a million times over. There are some video games that have much more creative and well told stories (Nier, Xenogears, 999, Planescape Torment) that don't even get close to the same amount of praise.

Graphics are very good, that said, realistic graphics always age poorly.

I don't think I'm being harsh, but if you disagree with me that's fine.
 
I think they can survive some burns from forums and yt when their game is gonna sell like sex dolls in a prison...
 
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I feel like It is just spontaneous justified reactions to a shit story. They tried to hide it and get you to pre order thinking the story would follow the basic ideas of the first one. Not turn into a SJW soap opera. Some people might like that and that's great but please promote a game for what it is. ND is not masters like Kojima and can get a pass for tricking people.
 
I'm a fan of ND but to point out a slight in your #1 point; technically, when a minority dislikes a game and the majority loves it, that is exactly the premise required of a game to be considered 'overrated.' Just like how Twilight is beloved by many, as well as Call of Duty, nudge nudge. :p
 
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Narration:

There is a secret Xbox division dedicated to the dark arts of espionage, sabotage, subversion and yellow propaganda. They have insurgents populate gaming forums and YouTube comments spreading seeds of doubt in an effort to gain any advantage over their competition. This is the unseen war that we don't normally hear about. This is a war waged for the mind of the gamer.

These are their stories.

Que 70s TV intro music
 
My friend who is a Nintendo fanboy wants Naughty Dog to fail so badly. He keeps telling me about how shit the ending is and how disappointed I'll be when I finally play the game because he's seen the leaks.
Sad, because all I ever asked was for Nintendo to invest again in more capable hardware....I'd love to play their new Zelda's at 4K 60fps, but again Nintendo needs more IP's than just Mario and Zelda, Smash, At least more IP's that cater tp adults......If they bring the games or games of the ilk that were on GC, I'd be game. Eternal Darkness et....There's no need tp hate on any company once they are bringing the goods. Naughty has been bringing the goods for over two decades and I guess people hate their long standing consistency.....
There is definitely some stupid console war bullshit at play especially with the fake news about a made up senior ND employee leaving for MS' Double Fine but I don't think it's coordinated. It's just fanboys doing what fanboys do mixed in with possible FUD.
Ha, maybe you didn't see the discord leaks......Why do they continuously do it though....After all this, LOU 2 will most likely review very well because the game is well made and reviewers will use some nice adjectives and we will be back to overrated threads, Sony games get an additional 30% on Meta, you mean they still reviewed this well after the leak, Sony games get a free pass. I cant get into this game, this particular multiplat game is better. etc...

After all the talk on Spiderman puddles, remember all the talk of people sick of Kratos when he appeared in GOW, people said any other character but him. Days Gone did extremely well with generic Deacon. I guess there is more vitriol for ND because they continuously make GOTY games....Yet, if any studio wants to take ND's throne, they have to bring the graphics, animations. loveable characters, spectacular levels, funny banter and high production set pieces and vertical/tense gameplay, especially at higher difficulties....No one does it like them...
 
Naughty dog are not the same company that gave us great games like uncharted 2 and the First the last of Us
they have been coasting on sequels and remasters ever since...but they are not offering the same mind blowing experiences that those other games last gen gave us
they have veered from offering fun game-play experiences to long boring movie like sequences ...they look pretty as hell and are best in class for the art direction but the replay-ability is zero once you have done it once

Also..certain people on their staff need to have a chat with Cliffy B about trying to form your narrative around social justice politics as people are just sick of this political correct shit
that has infested gaming which is why its getting the backlash....people want to escape in their games and not have the same horrible gender/sexuality/political crap thats in real life forced into a game

If its a great story and fun to play the game will speak for itself
[/QUOTE]
Uncharted 4 was mind blowing and that released in 2016

TLOU Part II looks to be mind blowing and it's coming out next month

They're the same Naughty Dog[/QUOTE]
 
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Good points, but I like Jim Sterling.....I think people take him way too seriously. I think he is funny no matter who he criticizes and the cue would be that there is always a level of humor involved in his rants. Have not seen him get pissy, but if he does, it's probably because of the lynch mob hitting him about his weight and looks when he criticizes something or some company they favor. It boils down to the same thing, they try to discredit the person and not the argument. Yet this is what YouTube jobbing is all about, getting the hits. At least with Jim he does some research first. Many youtubers just post controversial stories without any background checks, the views is more important to them....

Its all a bit tawdry though isn't it? I wouldn't mind so much but the sanctimony and self-righteousness gets up my nose at times.. I don't hate Stirling and I certainly wouldn't advocate to deplatform him (or anyone else for that matter), I just don't think he and people like him contribute anything of value, and a lot of them are just chasing the dollar in as mercenary and shameless a manner as the average thot.

Basically, I'm impressed by talent, effort and creativity none of which are traits I'd associate wiith Jim Sterling son!
 
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There is definitely some stupid console war bullshit at play especially with the fake news about a made up senior ND employee leaving for MS' Double Fine but I don't think it's coordinated. It's just fanboys doing what fanboys do mixed in with possible FUD.
You make a good point, I wouldn't be surprised if it was coordinated though as there's a Xbox discord that was recently outed for spreading fud against PlayStation in forums
 
Their last two main games was 92% and 93% on Meta and they both sold boatloads. Top of your game means your games are reviewing well and selling even better.
And UC2 was 96% which so far seems like the studio's peak. Naughty Dog is now no doubt extremely popular and a press darling, thanks to the growth spurred by games such as UC2 (imo THE game that skyrocketed their reputation and popularity) but ALSO clearly they grew into a studio with massive production values, insane polish, cinematic gaming excellence etc, making UC1 their last game that felt experimental and janky and constrained by either budget or time, or both, and now their games are almost too big to fail, or too grandiose to fail.

Back in the PS3 era I platinum'd UC1 & 2 by which time they became one of my favorite studios, but then UC3 disappointed me, UC4 both impressed me and bored me, and TLOU I couldn't finish because it didn't grip me. For my tastes, ND has peaked with UC2 and that's ok, I understand people like their current output.
 
You make a good point, I wouldn't be surprised if it was coordinated though as there's a Xbox discord that was recently outed for spreading fud against PlayStation in forums

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My gripe is wokeness and my connection with story of TLoU. I am the one who can admit that I don't like changes of game franchises which I am attached to it. Eg: Mass Effect.

That's like all of my comments here. If anything I am Amy Henning and Bruce Stanley back.
 
What sense does it make to be climbing mountains all over, hanging on ledges and yet Lara still looks so good, it seems all that cold weather and the beatdowns by men and animals alike are the health vials of beauty that sustains Lara's appearance. Nice clothes, make-up still well done all up on these snowy tops....

It's a videogame.

Do you also complain about how Ellie can't get hurt in The Last of Us 1, or does realism suddenly stop mattering to you when it's an ND series?

It would seem many people want a fap simulator, whilst Naughty Dog goes for a more realistic experience. Lara does not even appear to be as tough as Ellie and Chloe and certainly not Nadine.....Even Elena and her encounters are much more realistic, like you know she is not as tough as the rest, but it's perfectly represented in-game. Lara has no emotional impact on anything or anyone during her games, she's just a pretty girl who does death defying jumps everyday, no sweat. Lots of moaning though and that walk, because that's all realistic for the role she portrays....

Even setting aside your disingenuous prattle about realism, do you want to know what Druckmann's prime example of a bad, oversexualized character was?

Cortana.

This idea that sexy characters cannot possibly have emotional or narrative weight to them is ridiculous, and you sound ridiculous for having espoused such a close-minded thought

If anything that's pandering, and I'm not against sexuality in games, but it should not be the primary tool you use to try and sell your game
...
Games should not be or do not sell based on their fappable metric.

It's strange that you would tell developers how they should and should not make their games, based solely on your dislike of certain superficial traits. Seems pretty hypocritical.

et it seems, there is indeed a crowd that's overly focused on these things, thinking that this is what gaming is about. Models aren't surviving what Ellie is surviving there. Yet you watch at some of the mods and creations they do with RE-2 Remake and all the adult themed Overwatch contentm then it seems there are some people who are overly enthused of putting it in widow maker or whatever polygonal character they see on screen.....

And now you're telling people that they're enjoying games the wrong way.


It's funny, all I've ever said is that I personally don't care of Uncharted or Last of Us, that Abby looks like a man, and that Druckmann's ideology is cancer. All three of these things are personal opinions of mine, I don't wish that these games didn't exist and in fact I think they're fine games, just not my cup of tea.

You, on the other, are laying down rigid rules that you want other people to follow. "Charcaters NEED realistic bodies and attire", "You SHOULDN'T have sex appeal in your games", "People who make bikini mods are going TOO FAR", etc.

You are the one who wishes to force your ideology upon others, yet I am the bad guy, because my opinion of Naughty Dog does not consist solely of universal praise?

lmao get outta here
 
Just cause 2 & 3, Max Payne 1 & 2 & 3, Crackdown, Vanquish, Warframe, Tomb Raider, Sunset Overdrive, MGS4, MGSV, Gears of War 1 & 2 & 3, Earth Defense Force, Red Faction Guerrilla....

And yes, i've played Uncharted 2 & 3 and The Last of Us. Now, let's stop pretending those games have innovative gameplay just because of some small peculiarities shall we?
Dude.. why are you doing this?
Every single game you mentioned, most of which released after Uncharted, controls absolutely nothing like Uncharted?
At this point why didn't you mentioned RE6, which in terms of mechanics destroys all the games you posted?

I'm probably the only one in my country who completed Just Cause 2 at 98% or something with like 300 hours on it (some bug i can't recall made impossibile reaching 100%) and while i think Just Cause games trasversal when mastered are possibly the best in the industry, along with Second Son max upgraded powers, shooting in these game is awful, to say the least. There's absolutely nothing to compare them to the Uncharted series, what the actual fuck? And same goes for Crackdown, which is fairly similar in terms of shooting, how can you say you played the games, can you imagine a multiplayer match or co-op in Uncharted with JC/Crackdown shooting and mechanics?

Max Payne again, controls nothing like them. Where's the verticality? Games always felt great no doubt and MP 3 is still the best controlling game Rockstar ever made (and still the most linear game i've ever played), but what is there to compare with how an online match on Uncharted whould play out?

Vanquish is great, and hitbox feedback sublime, but it's more comparable to RE6 in terms of mechanics, and both feel nothing like Uncharted.

Tomb Raider shooting may look like Uncharted, (maybe, if you're partially blind) but plays absolutely nothing like it. It's actually more similar to TLOU shooting (upgrades included) but less responsive. Try imagining again an Uncharted multi or co-op with Tomb Raider controls/animations input latency. Among many other things, quickscopes while running/rolling during frenetic action would be totally impossible.

MGS CQC is basically infinite and MGS V controls are amazing, but again, the shooting is totally different, there's nothing in common.

Gears of War i'll just quote myself from the other thread:

I agree, shooting in Gears always felt spot on, and that reloading mechanic is still so satisfying. But on the other hand, with Uncharted you feel you're controlling a human with bones and muscles, with Gears you're controlling a tank. And mind you, i don't dislike that feeling at all, i still love replaying RE4 like no other game, but it is a completely different feel.

Warframe? You can do cool stuff for sure and the game in basically infinite (this POS of a game literally ruined my brother's life for 5 years), but what the actual fuck has to do with Uncharted mechanics? No climbing, no hanging, and just like every other game you mentioned outside of Gears, aiming system looks nothing like Uncharted.

Sunset Overdrive? Great gameplay and trasversal, but same thing again, what the hell has in common with Uncharted?

Never played Red Faction Guerilla nor Earth Defend Force, but going by the rest of what you posted, i have little doubt they have nothing to do with Uncharted.

You said you played the game, what about sections like Uncharted 3 Chapter 13? Or any chapters in these games where you're shooting while on horses/cars by seamlessly jumping on moving vehicles of your choice while taking out enemies from all kind of positions to come back on you vehicle and so on?
I know i posted the wrong example with that demo played on very easy, but i also made the assumption that what's possibly the most important gaming board on the planet actually played it's games before commenting on it.

And keep in mind, i prefer Tomb Raider, MGS V, Sunset Overdrive and even Just Cause gameplay loop over Uncharted, but this has nothing to do with shooting mechanics or player feedback.
 
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Tear them down and rebuild them to make games like Crash Bandicoot and Jak & Daxter (1) again!
 
There is definitely some stupid console war bullshit at play especially with the fake news about a made up senior ND employee leaving for MS' Double Fine but I don't think it's coordinated. It's just fanboys doing what fanboys do mixed in with possible FUD.
You make a good point, I wouldn't be surprised if it was coordinated though as there's a Xbox discord that was recently outed for spreading fud against PlayStation in forums

You people genuinely cannot function unless you categorize everything into either "MS fanboy" or "Sony fanboy", can you?
 
Yes, but I think it's fanboyism more than other think, I think a big part of this criticism wouldn't be there if they would be a multiplatform studio.

I understand the crunch and SJW criticism (the 'overrated' and 'walking simulator' one is laughable), but they are mostly only ones receiving shit due to it, when it's something tons of companies also do.
 
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And UC2 was 96% which so far seems like the studio's peak. Naughty Dog is now no doubt extremely popular and a press darling, thanks to the growth spurred by games such as UC2 (imo THE game that skyrocketed their reputation and popularity) but ALSO clearly they grew into a studio with massive production values, insane polish, cinematic gaming excellence etc, making UC1 their last game that felt experimental and janky and constrained by either budget or time, or both, and now their games are almost too big to fail, or too grandiose to fail.

Back in the PS3 era I platinum'd UC1 & 2 by which time they became one of my favorite studios, but then UC3 disappointed me, UC4 both impressed me and bored me, and TLOU I couldn't finish because it didn't grip me. For my tastes, ND has peaked with UC2 and that's ok, I understand people like their current output.
That's unfortunate that they didn't grab you. TLOU and UC4 are in my top 10 best games of all time
 
Uncharted is just Tomb Raider without the tits (and ass, we still have ass in the new one, yes?) and TLOU is just another survival game. They look pretty, but it's nothing new.

Sure, there are similarities but who asked for something new? If you think like that, you would not have any game left to play. Every FPS game would be similar, you have a gun and try to shoot people or things in a war setting. I do like unique experiences such as Journey and Ico but otherwise almost every game can be compared with another game. It is ND's execution that stands out, like the writing, voice acting, witty dialogues, the comradery (Nathan and Sully), the difficult bonding (Joel and Ellie), amazing graphics, the musical score (TLOU is very well done), the motion captured animation, etc. For me what really stands out is how I start to care about the characters in a ND game. This was very true with TLOU. It's intro really grabbed me and never let go until the ending. I cannot think of any game that had this kind of writing. I would say TLOU's story is way better than most Netflix movies. Boy meets girl, criminals trying to smuggle drugs...how original.
 
You people genuinely cannot function unless you categorize everything into either "MS fanboy" or "Sony fanboy", can you?
What have I categorized other than the fanboys? Are you saying console wars don't exist? There is some bullshit going on about how ND employees are leaving for MS studios. That stuff has been reported to no end even with non existent employees. Why would they do that?

 
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I fail to see how this game or any of their games are even woke. There are no lectures on gay rights or feminism in any of their games and the characters almost never bring it up. Strong women and gays simply exist and I feel to see how that is so controversial. If they got all preachy then maybe I could understand it but they don't so I don't get the backlash.
 
I would say there is a concerted effort, but it's not to tear them down. Rather, they've been taken over. The same thing has begun at Rockstar, where you will see key individuals departing for the next year or two while the company starts to turn over a new leaf in certain aspects of its creative productions.

I consider that a concerted effort when folks with certain ideological agendas deliberately target large video game publishers with their sights set on HR.

Like, why build a big sparkly successful SJW game publisher when you can just transform existing ones into making that stuff.
Tear them down and rebuild them to make games like Crash Bandicoot and Jak & Daxter (1) again!
ND is not being torn down though. Some people left for more pay, better benefits elsewhere or perhaps they could not handle the demands of AAA productions, everybody has their reason, some people were probably terminated....It happens at all studios, nothing specific to ND....

People need to realize that LOU2 is ND's biggest game, it's their most ambitious game by far, they needed extra staff, some people probably thought it was too much work, that's possible, but these are just common and everyday things that happens at studios....ND is still ND. You realize that the ex employees crying about ND still have nothing frying even years after they left the company, devs come and go, the company remains. Many people have left Nintendo, Capcom, Rockstar over the years, yet they are still producing games with the same reception and high sales....

I think they can survive some burns from forums and yt when their game is gonna sell like sex doll in a prison...
Not worried about the burns, if anything this makes LOU 2 sell even more and good reviews will boost ND even more when LOU 2 is proven to be possibly the best game this year or this generation.
And UC2 was 96% which so far seems like the studio's peak. Naughty Dog is now no doubt extremely popular and a press darling, thanks to the growth spurred by games such as UC2 (imo THE game that skyrocketed their reputation and popularity) but ALSO clearly they grew into a studio with massive production values, insane polish, cinematic gaming excellence etc, making UC1 their last game that felt experimental and janky and constrained by either budget or time, or both, and now their games are almost too big to fail, or too grandiose to fail.

Back in the PS3 era I platinum'd UC1 & 2 by which time they became one of my favorite studios, but then UC3 disappointed me, UC4 both impressed me and bored me, and TLOU I couldn't finish because it didn't grip me. For my tastes, ND has peaked with UC2 and that's ok, I understand people like their current output.
They are still making games and after UC2 in 2009 which was GOTY, LOU 1 was GOTY in 2013 and LOU had many people calling it GOTG.....FYI, Uncharted 4 also got the most GOTY awards in 2016. Of course, just wait till LOU 2 ships or is reviewed to know how it stands. ND is not declining yet and they are certainly not out of commision....

My gripe is wokeness and my connection with story of TLoU. I am the one who can admit that I don't like changes of game franchises which I am attached to it. Eg: Mass Effect.

That's like all of my comments here. If anything I am Amy Henning and Bruce Stanley back.

Bruce Straley and Amy Hennig got their stick just the same....It does not matter who is directing the ND games, if the games are successful, these directors will come under fire.....
 
I don't know about #1, #2, #4 but you don't know what you are talking about with #3. Salaried employees don't get OT pay. Let's say they give you $200k/yr for just working. Typical hours is 40hr/weeks. Then you enter crunch time and it's 80hr/week for over a year. How much did you really make for the hours? $100k/yr @ 40hr/week - that's significantly less than the quoted 40hr/week = $200k/yr pay.

The issue is trying to survive 80hr/week for an extended long period of time while trying to take care of a family. It doesn't work. Divorces are filed and people quit after they get the bonus from the game. That's just the facts.


This in a nutshell. Why are people so shortsighted just so they can protect a company they have no ties with is beyond me. It's an issue no matter how you dice it. No company is above the law or morally immune to being criticized regarding it.
 
What have I categorized other than the fanboys? Are you saying console wars don't exist? There is some bullshit going on about how ND employees are leaving for MS studios. That stuff has been reported to no end even with non existent employees. Why would they do that?

I have literally never heard of this before, because I don't involve myself in console war nonsense.

If you had your wits about you, you would do the same.
 
I have literally never heard of this before, because I don't involve myself in console war nonsense.

If you had your wits about you, you would do the same.
I have my wits about me but I read gaming news 🤷‍♂️. Link is in the post now.
 
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Yes their games are walking simulators.
How can you say something so silly when the Uncharted and TLOU games are primarily 3rd person shooters and their other games are primarily platformers? In some of the games you can even drive vehicles...
"Waling simulator" is probably the most vapid reduction that came out of this past gen.
 
No there isn't.
Yes their games are walking simulators.
Yet some people enjoy those kind of games.
If this isn't the kind of nonsense who only serve as hurting this Forum reputation, don't know what it is.
Why do you guys have to force people to rely on the worst places of the Internet to have objective discussions on games? Aren't we all adults here?
You just dismissed 30 years of efforts on all kinds of genre, from platforms to actions, from open worlds to tps, from competitive multiplayer tps to open linear sandbox, back to open world again, from some of the finest studios in the industry.
What's the reason?
 
Sure, there are similarities but who asked for something new? If you think like that, you would not have any game left to play. Every FPS game would be similar, you have a gun and try to shoot people or things in a war setting. I do like unique experiences such as Journey and Ico but otherwise almost every game can be compared with another game. It is ND's execution that stands out, like the writing, voice acting, witty dialogues, the comradery (Nathan and Sully), the difficult bonding (Joel and Ellie), amazing graphics, the musical score (TLOU is very well done), the motion captured animation, etc. For me what really stands out is how I start to care about the characters in a ND game. This was very true with TLOU. It's intro really grabbed me and never let go until the ending. I cannot think of any game that had this kind of writing. I would say TLOU's story is way better than most Netflix movies. Boy meets girl, criminals trying to smuggle drugs...how original.
Gameplay > everything else. And cover shooters are boring.
 
No, I thought ND was the best studio at making Movie type games. I hate them now after hearing the direction the studio is going. It's just not for me. I just won't purchase another ND game anytime in the near future.
TLOU was a 9.5 in my eyes. It just had that magic. The only issue I had with it was the fact that (like a lot of people have stated) was that there was too much linearity and simplicity in how you tackled levels. I have no problem calling it a cinematic game because it did everything right damn near.

I'll reserve judgement on TLOU 2, but I will not pretend that there isn't issues at ND because their games are of great quality.
 
Dude.. why are you doing this?
Every single game you mentioned, most of which released after Uncharted, controls absolutely nothing like Uncharted?
At this point why didn't you mentioned RE6, which in terms of mechanics destroys all the games you posted?

I'm probably the only one in my country who completed Just Cause 2 at 98% or something with like 300 hours on it (some bug i can't recall made impossibile reaching 100%) and while i think Just Cause games trasversal when mastered are possibly the best in the industry, along with Second Son max upgraded powers, shooting in these game is awful, to say the least. There's absolutely nothing to compare them to the Uncharted series, what the actual fuck? And same goes for Crackdown, which is fairly similar in terms of shooting, how can you say you played the games, can you imagine a multiplayer match or co-op in Uncharted with JC/Crackdown shooting and mechanics?

Max Payne again, controls nothing like them. Where's the verticality? Games always felt great no doubt and MP 3 is still the best controlling game Rockstar ever made (and still the most linear game i've ever played), but what is there to compare with how an online match on Uncharted whould play out?

Vanquish is great, and hitbox feedback sublime, but it's more comparable to RE6 in terms of mechanics, and both feel nothing like Uncharted.

Tomb Raider shooting may look like Uncharted, (maybe, if you're partially blind) but plays absolutely nothing like it. It's actually more similar to TLOU shooting (upgrades included) but less responsive. Try imagining again an Uncharted multi or co-op with Tomb Raider controls/animations input latency. Among many other things, quickscopes while running/rolling during frenetic action would be totally impossible.

MGS CQC is basically infinite and MGS V controls are amazing, but again, the shooting is totally different, there's nothing in common.

Gears of War i'll just quote myself from the other thread:



Warframe? You can do cool stuff for sure and the game in basically infinite (this POS of a game literally ruined my brother's life for 5 years), but what the actual fuck has to do with Uncharted mechanics? No climbing, no hanging, and just like every other game you mentioned outside of Gears, aiming system looks nothing like Uncharted.

Sunset Overdrive? Great gameplay and trasversal, but same thing again, what the hell has in common with Uncharted?

Never played Red Faction Guerilla nor Earth Defend Force, but going by the rest of what you posted, i have little doubt they have nothing to do with Uncharted.

You said you played the game, what about sections like Uncharted 3 Chapter 13? Or any chapters in these games where you're shooting while on horses/cars by seamlessly jumping on moving vehicles of your choice while taking out enemies from all kind of positions to come back on you vehicle and so on?
I know i posted the wrong example with that demo played on very easy, but i also made the assumption that what's possibly the most important gaming board on the planet actually played it's games before commenting on it.

And keep in mind, i prefer Tomb Raider, MGS V, Sunset Overdrive and even Just Cause gameplay loop over Uncharted, but this has nothing to do with shooting mechanics or player feedback.
We were talking about innovation, not gameplay that "feels good". Uncharted wasn't the first to make vertical shooting or semi-open levels or quick shooting mechanics.

And the examples you're giving of what i assume you consider "innovative" are merely scripted events. Jumping from car to car to kill enemies and going back to your own? Only happens at that exact same very controlled instance every time you play. The mechanics related to it also only work at that time. Its not a game mechanic like it is on Just Cause. Same goes for sinking ships or falling airplanes, all scripted.
If you want a comparison, its like if i said Forza Horizon's races against airplanes and boats are "innovative" for allowing you to race things other than cars. In reality, all the movement of these other special vehicles are scripted, and in practice its only a glorified time attack event.

Talking about scripts, thats probably the closest thing to "innovation" Uncharted brought, weaving scripted events directly onto the game.
It wasn't the first to do it but it was the first i remember doing on such a large scale, and its also the main reason for the criticism of their game. It looks awesome at first but it kills player agency and replayability.
 
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While I think some of its initial roots derives from the poor and hackneyed writing in Uncharted 4 that people fear will translate to TLOU2, I think a majority of the negativity is console wars nonsense. It's just cover to attack the highly anticipated AAA games under some pseudo-narrative in order to downplay it.

Naughty Dog is too SJW ergo anything they put out can be hand-waived away.
God of War is a walking simulator and so it can be hand-waived away.

The major problem I think revolves solely around the XBOX not having comparable games to contrast with. With another XBOX cutting early for the next generation on top of losing its identity by multi-platforming releases, people are less able to pump something up and so they focus on putting others down. That being said there is also a culture of feel-before-you-thinkers who think that just because something is modern and not biblical it's an agenda or conspiracy.

Extremism isn't a line of degrees, its a circle.
 
I think that console wars are a very small part. X Box fans don't seem to have this vitriol against Nintendo or either other Soncy exclusives. I think it is a combination of the backlash against so called movie games and the backlash against SJWs. People seem to think that great story and great gameplay are mutually exclusive.
 
People seem to think that great story and great gameplay are mutually exclusive.
I think the problem people have is precisely because they don't have to be mutually exclusive, but a lot of developers act as if they are.
Just look at RDR2, sacrificing good controls and proper game mechanics for the sake of "immersion" and "realism". Or forcing players to play the game one specific way to obey whatever script there is.
 
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I think that console wars are a very small part. X Box fans don't seem to have this vitriol against Nintendo or either other Soncy exclusives. I think it is a combination of the backlash against so called movie games and the backlash against SJWs. People seem to think that great story and great gameplay are mutually exclusive.
The OP brought this up in a different thread..... that the LoU2 backlash is due to a secret group of Discord members taking over gaming sites and forums. lol.

ND would have a fraction of the criticism if the leaked story wasn't so controversial. It compounded because people decided to dig deeper into Druckmann and noticed all these political videos and articles, where he is linked to Anita S. Since the leak, it's gotten worse because Druckmann has the itch to go on Twitter and Instagram every couple days and fan the flames (Kurt Cobain post). The guy can't keep his mouth shut.
 
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I think the problem people have is precisely because they don't have to be mutually exclusive, but a lot of developers act as if they are.
Just look at RDR2, sacrificing good controls and proper game mechanics for the sake of "immersion" and "realism". Or forcing players to play the game one specific way to obey whatever script there is.
I am one of those people who found nothing wrong with RDR2 besides a few flaws but that is for another another thread. Anyway ND games play fine.
 
The OP brought this up in a different thread..... that the LoU2 backlash is due to a secret group of Discord members taking over gaming sites and forums. lol.

ND would have a fraction of the criticism if the leaked story wasn't so controversial. It compounded because people decided to dig deeper into Druckmann and noticed all these political videos and articles, where he is linked to Anita S. Since the leak, it's gotten worse because Druckmann has the itch to go on Twitter and Instagram every couple days and fan the flames (Kurt Cobain post). The guy can't keep his mouth shut.
wow, i knew Druckmann was a dick but using that Kurt Cobain quote to deflect criticism confirms it.
 
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