Is there a concerted effort to tear down Naughty Dog
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CJ_75
Member
Oh yeah, sure. Now name 10 games from this generation with amazing and unique gameplay. No wait, why would I be so hard on you? Name 5 of them. I have time...
From what I have played yes naughty dog games felt like a walking simulator at times. I have played Uncharted 1-3 and some of last of us. 2 and 3 completely bored me and last of us I haven't gotten myself to finish it. I think what they make is impressive to look at but that is about it. I'm more of a Jak and daxter fan.
Lionel Richie
Member
There's quite an ample area between unique and derivative.
Burrito Bandito
Banned
1,2, and 4 are 100% in my personal opinion
- Overrated in my eyes, for sure
- idk about walking sims, ala Death Stranding, but they are definitely movies with occasional player input
- sure you dont have to buy their product but that doesnt mean they arent pushing a narrative
- Overrated in my eyes, for sure
- idk about walking sims, ala Death Stranding, but they are definitely movies with occasional player input
- sure you dont have to buy their product but that doesnt mean they arent pushing a narrative
CJ_75
Member
I agree but please feel free to name a few even if it fits in the middle.
itsjustJEFF
Member
It's human nature to tear down our "heros" and "idols" You can't find one person/team/org/company of prominence or stature that we have not tried to tear down. It's just the way that some people are and going to be.
Lionel Richie
Member
Sure. Bloodborne and Sekiro each offered a unique twist in the Souls gameplay by focusing on countering and parrying. BOTW has the chemistry system that no other game boasts, I know some people get retarded and call it a Ubisoft game or whatever but the chemistry engine is singular. DOOM 2016 and its sequel both offer a fresh way to do health regen that keeps you on the opponents face. Automata with the diegetic update system. The gloo cannon in Prey, the time shifting parkour in Titanfall 2, the environmental destruction in Control, dual wielding shotguns in New Order. Those are concrete examples, but there's a more abstract way to look at it, like how Super Mario Odyssey does collectibles, Splatoon 2 with the territorial gain focus, Nioh with the different stances, The Last Guardian with the unresponsive AI partner, there's a lot. Uncharted, on the other hand, is a VERY by the books cover shooter. I wouldn't say the same for TLOU though, I think that game does offer something unique.
phil_t98
#SonyToo
Do you like there games? yes well play them
do you think its a walking simulator? no you dont
do you think they are overworking their staff? no you dont
Do you think they are pushing SJW? no you dont
just play the game on your beloved PS4. Stop worrying that other people dont like walking simulators or think the staff are mistreated. you dont need to defend everything
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Gamernyc78
Banned
Played it and it never ever felt like it was Uncharted to me and the story was engulfing and loved the combat.
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
People use flawed logic to criticize ND games.
"It's a movie, look at all the cutscenes and walking sections."
This is generally the case for most triple A big budget games with stories.
"There's a lack of gameplay in ND games."
There really isn't.
People just love to repeat what others say about ND games.
"It's a movie, look at all the cutscenes and walking sections."
This is generally the case for most triple A big budget games with stories.
"There's a lack of gameplay in ND games."
There really isn't.
People just love to repeat what others say about ND games.
StreetsofBeige
Member
Exactly.
It's like gaming is politics and some people have an urge to sway the public to buy the same console as them, and like the same games.
How come you never see this kind of loyalty and defence in movies, TV shows and cars where people watch and buy what they want, they discuss and have a good time, and nobody cares whether 50 people or 50 million people like the same thing?
But in gaming, some people have this mental breakdown:
1 million gamers play the same thing as me = I feel like shit
10 million gamers play the same thing as me = OK, I feel better. But not there yet
100 million gamers play the same thing as me = Yee-ha! Trophy time boys!
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jeffyjaixx
Member
You'll never please EVERYONE ever. The fact ND is catching so much attention just attests to the fact that they're big game in the gaming industry.
phil_t98
#SonyToo
agree with that, I never get why people post console sale or game sales either. its not like they have scars in the company or getting money of everyone sold. its a way of justifying their choice of what they bought. I buy a console and buy games I like simple
Roronoa Zoro
Gold Member
Movies with occasional player input is not true. There are long shooting and platforming sections and some cutscenes. Heavy Rain is a movie with occasional player input
StreetsofBeige
Member
I have never seen in life anyone buying a car and then going around trying to compare and sway people their car in the class is the best. People just buy what they like and nobody cares.
Lets say a Camry, Accord, Maxima and Ford Fusion are all the same class. I don't know which car gets rated highest but lets say for sake of argument most sites say the Camry is best.
I have never seen anyone with a new Camry go around bitching they got the best car for the money. Or anyone go on the defence crying the car they bought (rated middle of the pack) is supposedly much better than criticized and people should give it a shot next time, and that car review sites are biased.
But for $60 video games, here we are.
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phil_t98
#SonyToo
I get it with films as they get pretty cultish but defending mega companies and bashing mega companies who both produce devices aimed for people to have fun on is stupid. just buy what you buy and have fun with it, if somebody doesn't buy the same as you dont bash them just do what you do
IamOnline4Real
owns Galaxy Brain. Still shrink wrapped.
StreetsofBeige
Member
Yup.
In high school I bought a small boombox. It was about $100. At the time there were a ton of models at around that price from a million brands. Tghis was in the late 80s I think. And that's when there were tons of Japanese and USA brands. And LG was called Lucky Goldstar.
The one I picked was Aiwa.
Why? For $100 it looked good, black, and seemed to have the key features I wanted with detachable speakers.
What the fuck is Aiwa? Don't know, don't care. Don't think I know anyone who has Aiwa anything. And it was a good buy. Turns out Aiwa was owned by Sanyo and Sony. How's anyone supposed to know that at the time?
For people who chase brands to make themselves feel better, they probably would have bought a familiar brand like Sanyo, Sony or RCA at the time.
Explosive Zombie
Banned
Buff women and gay women are the pinnacle of woke, there is nothing more woke you can do than have lesbians and women who are built. The second you have these two things no other things can make it more woke, not speeches about women being superior to men, not a plot through-line about believing women who have been sexually assaulted, not a plot line about getting an abortion, not a plot line about transitioning... literally just having women be gay or buff is the most woke thing you can possibly ever do. Please ignore that there were gays in TLOU 1 and that the only ingredient added to this woke mixture is a buff woman.
StreetsofBeige
Member
Probably not the right thread to ask as leaks get permabanned. Your question is better suited in the spoiler/leak therad.
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
Yes.
It's well deserved imo. Their work practices should never be condoned.
It's well deserved imo. Their work practices should never be condoned.
It was not my intention and if this does count then delete it. I apologize if that is what it came across as.
Bloody Knuckles
Banned
Define walking simulator? This has been the dumbest argument this generation as games got bigger. Hell my gotg so far Witcher 3 would be considered a riding/walking simulator.
StreetsofBeige
Member
Not from you directly. But anyone wanting to write a detailed response to you might go accidentally overboard with details.
Explosive Zombie
Banned
I'm in that thread, never saw a real answer to the question he's asking, tbh.
Strategize
Member
When you're at the top of the mountain people will do anything to knock you off, even when it doesn't make sense.
As long as critical reception stays high, Naughty Dog will always be fine because that's what their entire reputation is based upon, it's why they crunch so much, to wow critics and win awards. Which in turn gets parroted around by their fans as "See, this is why they're the best." which both gets them more haters but also more fans.
This is why alot of the groups attacking them such as...
1) Anti-SJWs
2) Fans of Nintendo or Xbox
3) Weebs
4) Fans of certain characters being mad that the narrative doesn't idealize them.
None of these people hold enough power to ever truly damage ND's reputation. Normal people don't care that Ellie likes girls, or that a female character is buff or some shit Druckmann said about a feminist over 5 years go, they care about the game being perceived lower quality. So long as Naughty Dog are critical darlings, they're untouchable.
As long as critical reception stays high, Naughty Dog will always be fine because that's what their entire reputation is based upon, it's why they crunch so much, to wow critics and win awards. Which in turn gets parroted around by their fans as "See, this is why they're the best." which both gets them more haters but also more fans.
This is why alot of the groups attacking them such as...
1) Anti-SJWs
2) Fans of Nintendo or Xbox
3) Weebs
4) Fans of certain characters being mad that the narrative doesn't idealize them.
None of these people hold enough power to ever truly damage ND's reputation. Normal people don't care that Ellie likes girls, or that a female character is buff or some shit Druckmann said about a feminist over 5 years go, they care about the game being perceived lower quality. So long as Naughty Dog are critical darlings, they're untouchable.
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HaveButOneLife
Banned
There's no need, just boycott them.
At this point any praise towards TLOU2 will not be sincere, since the gaming industry and especially game journalists are SJW's themselves. If this game's story gets any praise for its narrative then it proves that journalists have absolutely no credibility left.
At this point any praise towards TLOU2 will not be sincere, since the gaming industry and especially game journalists are SJW's themselves. If this game's story gets any praise for its narrative then it proves that journalists have absolutely no credibility left.
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Explosive Zombie
Banned
What? So there's no option where the game is great and deserving of praise?
Strategize
Member
Or you know, it's actually good and well executed.
I haven't actually heard that much criticism of the story because it's either a bunch of people crying wolf with the "SJW" stuff, or a fundamental misunderstanding where their personal opinion on certain characters morality, is better than how other characters in the story think of them.
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Strategize
Member
Some of the people the people that actually care about the game will.
Not the anti-SJWs though, they'll just call games journalism a bunch of corrupt lefts again, proceed to try and start Gamergate 2 and fail miserably.
Explosive Zombie
Banned
It's weird they say the journalists won't be able to admit the game is bad due to their stance on SJW politics but couldn't we equally say these people could never admit the game would be good? They've clearly dug in on their positions, who would trust most posters here to view the game objectively when it releases?
Strategize
Member
Story isn't even that woke either. It's literally about violence and hate, and it's rendered the most realistic way we've ever seen in a game.
If Ellie and mystery women were dudes it would be considered the most red pilled game ever by alot of the same game people who hate it.
Vick
Member
And yet Drake's Fortune was the first TPS to take Gears cover shooter and transformed it into a blend of all different mechanics, to make a game in which you could run without being on rails, jump on all kinds of structures, hanging on surfaces and shooting while being in every position/situation.
I if recall correctly there was a lesser known game who tried some of these things which inspired them, but the TPS progression of the time was RE4-GEARS-DF.
No, i (i am a nobody, i am only talking about what actually happened in the industry at the time, on all major sites and on all boards of the planet who actually witnessed the insanity of it all, since i cant't stand rewriting of history) consider them innovative because you always have control during these sequences, unlike real scripted sequences previously seen in set pieces of series like Modern Warfare. It was a BIG deal. Looking at videos of course it seems scripted, but you're always in control of the character, these sequences will never play the same.
It's absolutely false, talking specifically about U3, you could approach any truck you wanted, from every side you wanted, at the speed you wanted. You can decide to just surpass them (necessary on speedruns) decide to slow down, decide to kill occupants without even leaving the horse, staying on one truck for as long as you want and after dealing with stuff go back on your horse from any direction you want (the horse just tries to follow you), with a jump or in a more careful way, and continue on. All of this feels and looks super fluid and of course looks scripted but as i said you're always in full control of your character and horse.
Nothing like this outside of it's sequels, and if there is, please bring it up.
Gameplay mechanics during these sequences (during the whole game) are always the same, you always use the same buttons for the entire playthrough (outside of those very few QTE which are still totally absent from every sequence i'll talk about), from U2 convoys, to U3 caravan, to U4 chase sequence, to Lost Legacy ending. Out of these, only U2 one can look similar between one playthrough and the other being by far the most guided, but still, full control of the character always.
No, absolutely not.
Devs always said they could have easily faked it, but said fuck it instead and just went with a real cruise ship on a real procedural ocean during a storm.
If you know something about programming, that is a literal nightmare no one ever attempted to replicate till this day.
Your moving a character which adjust himselft every second from huge waves rolling the ship while all kinds of object react physically to what's going on, while being on a real huge ship affected by real physics in a real, simulated ocean while having gunfights and boss battles while struggling with moving covers and enemies struggling as much as you do. Then the fucking ship rolls on one side while you're inside in full control of the character when the floor turns into walls, walls into floor, ceiling into walls. All of this without a single cut or load screen.
Now compare this to MW opening mission, and you're realizing the immense difference beetween the two. Both looks scripted on Youtube, but tecnically is like saying the Pokémon games on Game Boy are the same as RDR2 because you can go wherever you want on both games.
Cruise chapters were the very first started and very last completed, which means the sequence took them two years to build.
I mean, compared to the cruise, sure there's not much physically simulated here, but still, while controlling Drake (even when fucking flying in the air), you went from a gunfight inside of an airplane, to the sand of the desert on the ground, all while playing.
An aiplane explodes with you inside and you get sucked out while playing. Shit is nuts and still looks mindblowing.
Nah man. Just a ilttle bit different.
Sure, QTE and unskippable real time cutscene here and there can hurt further playthroughs. That's why people saying U2 is the best Uncharted (written/paced by guess who? Druckmann) while at same time complaining about cinematic games while at same time saying Drake's Fortune is the worst Uncharted crack me up, given DF is just a pure TPS with light action adventures elements here and there.
But still, unlike U4 the original series was highly replayable, that's why speedrunners love them and why Mattmatt10111 (which is almost a gaming god, seriously, check him out) said U2 it's his favourite game to speedrun given it's 100% skill based compared to games like RE2R (his words, i'll replay for the 30th time given original RE games have my favourite gameplay loop in gaming).
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I wish people could just enjoy games on their own merits. You had all those people who went after Days Gone because it featured a white biker dude without realizing there are strong women and POC characters in the game. It ended up being my fav of 2019 and TLOU2 will most likely be my fave of 2020 though Cyberpunk 2077 might give it a good run. I hate how even the most innocent things become cultural battlegrounds.
PanzerAzel
Member
The statements they've made towards those who've voiced their disapproval of the politics and the methods in which they've furthered them, and the affiliations they've aligned themselves with in order to do so? They've been nothing but toxic. While I fundamentally disagree with the message they're sending through TLoU2 (in reference to Abby's implementation, mainly), my main problem is them confronting opposition to that in broad generalizations painting these people who object as every type of "ism" and "phobe" under the sun. It's toxic, it's ignorant, and it's bullshit.
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Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
They're going to have one of the highest reviewed games this year
Dr. Claus
Banned
Uncharted 4 was the worst in the franchise and a major departure from what Amy Hennig originally envisioned for the sequel. Lost Legacy was also pretty damn bad.
People want to play Indiana Jones. Not "Mid Life Crisis Simulator 2016".
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Hostile_18
Banned
Both extreme sides are ridiculous. The ones where they force inclusivity for inclusivites sake to the detriment of a story and the others who get upset with just the littlest bit of diversity. Who take anything as a slight/agenda even if it makes sense/adds to the story.
Then there are the sensible ones in the middle who don't mind whatever the artist wants as long as it is believable within the confines of the story been told (it adds, rather than takes away).
I think this last group is the majority, at least I hope it is.
Then there are the sensible ones in the middle who don't mind whatever the artist wants as long as it is believable within the confines of the story been told (it adds, rather than takes away).
I think this last group is the majority, at least I hope it is.
Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
Uncharted 1 was the worst in the franchise, Uncharted 4 won over 100 awards and has a 94 metacritic
Also Amy Hennig's Uncharted 4 sounded bad if the rumors were true, they had to have Neil and Bruce step in to save it
Also Amy Hennig's Uncharted 4 sounded bad if the rumors were true, they had to have Neil and Bruce step in to save it
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Dr. Claus
Banned
Twilight has won awards. Last Jedi has won awards. Dragon Age II has won awards.
Winning awards does not indicate the media is good. The review industry has been a fucking shit show for decades.
Also fix your quoting unless you are purposefully trying to remove the quote.
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Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
Sure blame it on whatever but Uncharted 4 is a success, a great game and it sold 16 million units. Nothing will change that
Guilty_AI
Member
Correction. You haven an illusion of control. Or did you never noticed, say, how there are always corrections on the trajectory and speed of the character when you're jumping from one boat to another, or from one vehicle to another. Or how unless you do a series of certain steps, its impossible to destroy a certain tank in a chapter of Uncharted 2, or kill a certain sniper in a part of TLoU? The game leads you into certain developments.
Being able to move your character doesn't mean you are in control, you still have to faithfully follow the script or you won't progress, possibly die.
Same as the above answer. Just illusion of control.
If you want something similar, look no further than most platformers. Just imagine the trucks as moving platforms and the enemies as cute monster you stomp on, the moving road a bottomless pit. Its the same gameplay principle, except one of them was made to look cooler with guns and explosions and has invisible assists.
Interestingly enough, you could even draw comparisons between uncharted games and Crash Bandicoot.
So you can ride horses whenever and wherever you want in U3? Or jump from car to car whenever and wherever you want as long as there are cars? Or just in very specific sparts of the game? As i've been saying, illusion of control. All these things happen in extremely controlled scenarios. Being able to move your character around doesn't make them any less scripted.
Mate, you either don't know what you're talking about or you're not explaining it properly. By "procedural ocean" you mean real time waves? I don't remember about then, but i know they were replicated fairly often. Even GTAV had them.
Besides, you're talking about technical achievments, i'm talking about gameplay design. Nothing changes the fact that all of this happens in very controlled scenarios. Its not like you can hop on a boat whenever you want, nor that sinking ships are a integral part of the game that will always look and feel as good as then.
Scripted. Controlled scenarios. Yada yada.
The head writer was Amy Hennig. She was also one the directors. Neil Druckmann was one of the designers but no idea how much he had to do with the pacing.
Look, i get that you like the game, but don't say the Oranges are Apples. All these things you're talking about, as i've been saying, happen during extremely controlled scenes. They're not an integral part of the game, they were carefully designed to behave in very specific ways on very specific moments. That's why they're scripted.
There are a lot of scenes in old (and new) Rockstar Games that function on similar principles. The entire fire-truck chase at the end of GTA SA is scrippted for example. Certain moments during certain races in Midnight club 2 are also scripted (liking jumping over helicopters or going under trucks)
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thelastword
Banned
Don't forget, it had the most Goty awards in 2016. The link is in one of my recent posts. People like to rewrite history. You'd swear UC4 is some b tier 7/10 game. UC4 sailed in a sea of 10's and Goty awards that year and it's clearly one of the best games released this gen next to 2018's GOW.