Damn still haven't seen this trailer. This screen really looked like Battlefront to me
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J.J. Abrams Star Wars: The Force Awakens Interview
- Thread starter Lifejumper
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Damn still haven't seen this trailer. This screen really looked like Battlefront to me
The Outsider
Member
Lifejumper
Member
Whats the status on Disney releasing the original versions of the OT? I know this has been asked a thousand times 
brandonh83
Banned
It was good and very exciting. Plenty agree.
Not by that, but vote.
Pretty sure saw something about it as I said only two months ago give or take.
Not even close. People tend to forget all the bad Star Trek movies. Abrams versions were generally well received. Into Darkness not as much but still faired better than several other movies in the series.
ryutaro's mama
Member
A lot of people live in the bubble of their own belief without doing any actual research.
It's pretty scary how pervasive this behavior is in a lot of things in life.
iirc, you're thinking of a vote that was taken at a recent fan convention.
TheDinoman
Member
Never seen either ST film, but I was quite surprised by the backlash the second film received, as the critics seemed to enjoy it considering the 87% on Rotten Tomatoes.
Then again, Revenge of the Sith somehow managed to get an 80% there so eh.
Then again, Revenge of the Sith somehow managed to get an 80% there so eh.
They would know best.
And I agree with them.
It was a shit film.
I rather watch that wreck about God than Darkness again.
No, you're right. I was voted the worst entry in the franchise. I remember, because it cause Simon Pegg to have a hissy fit, saying "fuck you" to Trekkers who hated it.
http://www.theguardian.com/film/2013/aug/23/simon-pegg-star-trek-into-darkness
Into Darkness was woeful. I don't see anything controversial about people finding it the worst in the series. It was a piss poor action film, dressed up in Star Trek uniforms. Just how bad it was has helped lower my expectations for Ep VII. All the signs are that this will be a good film and worthy entry in the Star Wars saga, but JJ hardly has a good track record, so I'm mentally prepared for the worst.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
One fan poll at one Star Trek fan convention shortly after the film came out. Unfortunately, that one fan poll then became widely reported due to one writer attending the convention writing about it on a slow news day, and other sites reporting on that article to fill blog quotas for that day, which in turn made the post viral, and cemented the narrative that a large contingent of the film's millions of viewers thought it a giant turd. Once the narrative was in place, it was basically done deal. Up until that post, the worst anyone thought of the film was a) it was needlessly sexist and gross re: Carol Marcus and b) that final third was put together really clumsily.
But no, most people don't think it's a bad movie. That was a couple thousand superfans, most of whom, I believe, admitted they did it to send some sort of message regarding their displeasure with "this cheap Wrath of Khan ripoff" which, of course, it wasn't.
In fact, this movie "lost" because two other fan groups decided to back off their pushing to have either Star Trek V or The Motion Picture ranked as "the worst."
lastplayed
Member
Find out this December 17!
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
That's like the only thing I care about in this movie.
I like Pegg, but his sentiment is moronic. "Hey guyz, we worked really hard on this. So STFU with your criticism". It's not like folks normally go out to make a bad film. Everyone will have their best intentions, but due to lackluster components - script, performances, direction, editing, whatever - the film can turn out bad.
Into Darkness was certainly a very poor Trek film, and a very average, predicable action film if viewed without any franchise baggage. No matter 'how hard' the cast and crew worked on it.
If Pegg was being true to his words, would have reject and apologies for all the negative things he's said about Phantom Menace, because Lucas worked hard on it and just wanted to make a fun film. Pegg's early career was heavily shaped by being a fan of sci-fi, with opinions and passions. You can't then get pissy when you feature in popular franchises and fans have the same responses you once did.
ryutaro's mama
Member
It was, however, the worst kept secret in a long time.
OH BENEDICT CUMBERBATCH IS WHO?!?!?
That's why the "secret" of who is whose offspring is whose in SW7 seems a bit silly...
...unless it turns out that Poe is a Skywalker. :O
Bobby Roberts
Banned
The criticism is reactionary bullshit, though. Actually read the single article (and it really is just the one article) that describes this "poll." People in the room were basically just jerking off over being Star Trek superfans, and essentially turned the convention into a political caucus. Actual film criticism or analysis had jack shit to do with the poll. The only reason it became a repeated, memetic narrative was due to the article being reblogged sans any key context by multiple outlets.
Shoulda never been a secret in the first place. Such a dumb decision.
neoism
Member
this to me is literally the only thing he does I HATE... I me fucking really JJ make one trilogy for fucks sake. I looove his directing... to me he is the next Spielberg..Steven gets a lot of hate on gaf though to me he is my fav director ever.... JJ is that I havent not liked a movie he has directed... lens flare in all.
I don't disagree that it wasn't very good but the amount of entitlement among fans is fucking ridiculous, whether we're talking about Star Trek, Star Wars, Marvel, DC, LotR, etc.
It's one thing to not like a movie but voting Into Darkness to the bottom of the list just to spite its creators? Have a little respect, goddamn. That's exponentionally more moronic than sticking up for passionate people who worked their ass off to make a flawed film.
It's hypocritical of Pegg to make these points though, which is what made me remember this drama from when it first happened. I mean. Simon Pegg's hatred of The Phantom Menace was an entire plot arc of season two of Spaced. The dude was the very definition of an opinionated superfan.
True. At the very least, Episode VII doesn't come across as being pretentious (as well as being overly sentimental & insidious) in the trailers, which is a big plus for me.
More importantly, I just hope that it's a good movie. That's all I'm asking for.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Are those things to the left and right of them in the background: bodies?
They're rocks but the one on the left kinda looks like a corpse...
They all look like bodies. Those dudes have me much more intrigued. 1 has a halbred, one a staff, another a club.
Sorry but that just makes Pegg the biggest hypocrite in the world considering his stance on TPM
(and the fact that he later took money to play Dengar in a prequel inspired series after his comments)
Edit: Oh beaten.
Jesus, have these people seen the Star Trek movies? Like Final Frontier or Generations or Insurrection? I mean, fuck. Into Darkness is solid compared to a lot of the Trek movies, and frankly I'd consider ratings like that purely knee jerks.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
So Simon Pegg doesn't like The Prequels, so he should never work on Star Wars? He shouldn't have worked on a quality show as the voice of a character he liked because he didn't enjoy some movies also created by the same film company? How does that make sense?
Do people honestly think everyone who works on any Star Wars property equally likes every previous thing that's had the words "Star Wars" on it? Or that the people hiring for those jobs honestly give a fuck whether or not the people being hired are licensed fans or whatever?
Fans seem to think working on this stuff is some sort of reward, which I guess makes sense being that a fan would consider working on Star Wars to be a validation of their fandom in some way. Simon Pegg's mere existence has become this weird lightning rod for fans who seem to believe his being "allowed" to help out with Star Wars is somehow a repudiation of their time being a fan.
It's kinda ridiculous.
Just because he doesn't like the prequels doesn't mean he's somehow not a Star Wars fan, and even if it did, it wouldn't matter, because nobody gets hired to work on a Star Wars show because they're fans. They're hired because they're good at what they do.
Do people honestly think everyone who works on any Star Wars property equally likes every previous thing that's had the words "Star Wars" on it? Or that the people hiring for those jobs honestly give a fuck whether or not the people being hired are licensed fans or whatever?
Fans seem to think working on this stuff is some sort of reward, which I guess makes sense being that a fan would consider working on Star Wars to be a validation of their fandom in some way. Simon Pegg's mere existence has become this weird lightning rod for fans who seem to believe his being "allowed" to help out with Star Wars is somehow a repudiation of their time being a fan.
It's kinda ridiculous.
Just because he doesn't like the prequels doesn't mean he's somehow not a Star Wars fan, and even if it did, it wouldn't matter, because nobody gets hired to work on a Star Wars show because they're fans. They're hired because they're good at what they do.
Michael F. Assbender
Banned
Which is odd because if liking the prequels and everything else tied to Star Wars were a requirement to work on Star Wars properties, nothing Star Wars related would get made, as only a tiny number of the most sycophantic apologists are delusional enough to "like" the prequels.
Nah, the vast majority of the hardcore fanbase likes them. Go to the big Star Wars Celebrations Lucasfilm runs or listen to pretty much any Star Wars podcast out there.
The fanbase, the actual obsessive fanbase tends to be very very defensive over them.
I would say prequel fans easily outnumber non-prequel fans in the Star Wars fan community by easily a 5 to 1 margin.
I mean look how beloved and obsessed over the prequel era series The Clone Wars is by fans now. Look at how Ashoka is easily one of the most popular characters among fans now. The prequels and prequel era is pretty well liked.
Not to create an obvious fallacy but anyone who defends the prequels under the pretense of being a "true" fan is delusional. They're objectively awful in a way that Lucas' own original was objectively charming.
George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
There must be a fan of the Holiday Special out there.
The fact that he works on Star Wars is not the reason he's a hypocrite.
It's how HIS work on Star Trek should be appreciated, all the effort, all the people who happily worked to make them should be appreciated.
But Lucas and his crew? FUCK OFF WANKERS!!
He can dislike something,he can still be a fan, he has the right to keep working on it, and his statements are hypcritical. They're not mutually exclusive in my opinion.
It's how HIS work on Star Trek should be appreciated, all the effort, all the people who happily worked to make them should be appreciated.
But Lucas and his crew? FUCK OFF WANKERS!!
He can dislike something,he can still be a fan, he has the right to keep working on it, and his statements are hypcritical. They're not mutually exclusive in my opinion.
laser halbred
interestingly, this new still has laser colors added on them now.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
He probably feels they should be appreciated largely because as someone who is familiar with the hows and whys of films and filmmaking, it seems fairly obvious that any comparison between the prequels and Into Darkness (much less Into Darkness and Star Trek films like Nemesis, Insurrection, or Final Frontier) on that criteria is ridiculous. He sees the unfairness of the criticism and it's lack of substance in general beyond willful misunderstanding and spiteful overreaction and is pushing back against it.
That's how it reads to me.
That also doesn't change the fact that the initial impulse to take swings at Pegg's knees seems rooted mostly in an anger that a guy who made it clear he thought the Prequels were very poorly made films (and has explained why he felt that in multiple ways - one of which being his own television show, in which the character who voiced those opinions was ALSO mocked and ridiculed for caring as much as he did) had the gall to go up for, and secure, a job set in the very era the films he didn't like were set in.
And that anger seems very much borne out of the sour grapes that he's a "bad fan" who is being rewarded for it.
whatever vote it was, it isn't worth being considered with a piece of shit like Nemesis, and I'm not even counting some of the Kirk ones
How much you care about a franchise can certainly cloud your judgement.
Going into seeing the prequels, I had enormous attachment to Star Wars as it played a huge role in my childhood. At the time, it was impossible for me to watch Phantom Menace dispassionately. I was just a truly awful Star Wards film. The next two weren't much better.
Over the years and several re-watches later, I can view them more critically and objectively, and they all have massive issues and fundamental flaws as films in their own right.
I've never had any emotional attachment to Star Trek. Watched TNG when I was a kid, and kind of enjoy the movies, but that's about it. Plot holes aside, I really enjoyed the 2009 reboot. Yet I found Into Darkness to be objectively poor film from the offset. A weak rehash of Wrath of Kahn, with an overemphasis on action. I can imagine if you cared about Trek, the films issues would be amplified a thousandfold.
I don't get how Pegg is a hypocrite. He worked on the Trek films and still works on them. Of course he is going to defend them. Why wouldn't he? Defending your own work vs one you are just a fan of is not comparable at all.
Not to mention Into Darkness is WAAAAAY better than Nemesis, Insurrection, Generations, and Final Frontier.
Losing your shit over hating what is at worst a middle tier Trek film is just bizarre.
Did people really forget that Insurrection and Nemesis were s thing? And just how unbearably bad, sub-tv level quality they were at every level? To say something like one of those two films is better directed and more enjoyable than Into Darkness...I would love to hear that argument.
Not to mention Into Darkness is WAAAAAY better than Nemesis, Insurrection, Generations, and Final Frontier.
Losing your shit over hating what is at worst a middle tier Trek film is just bizarre.
Did people really forget that Insurrection and Nemesis were s thing? And just how unbearably bad, sub-tv level quality they were at every level? To say something like one of those two films is better directed and more enjoyable than Into Darkness...I would love to hear that argument.
It's fine if he'd defended his work, but did so by attacked those who were critical of the latest entry in their beloved franchise. Which is what he has done over and over in relation to Star Wars.
Let's be honest, the Into Darkness haters who did that convention ranking that got his scorn had no idea what they were rambling about and earned him calling them out on their bullshit. This is a franchise filled with unbearably bad movies from sub-tv level directors with minimal budgets. The hyperbole around Into Darkness was just embarrassing as a long time Trek fan.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
But it isn't. There's one scene from Wrath of Khan that's referenced directly. The movie surrounding that scene bears almost no similarities otherwise.
It's the superficial, shallow, and incorrect reading of the film that makes the "Into Darkness is the worst one" narrative itself a weak one.
I can agree to this. The reaction of him being a bad fan is ridiculous. Any argument based on that should be ignored.
But hipocrisy is hipocrisy, The prequel hate is overreaction at it's finest, they're average movies with lots of flaws. Yet he pushes back against overreaction when it comes to his work getting them, but it's eager to throw the first stone at other's efforts and their respective fans.
If that's not hipocrisy, at the very least it's very unprofessional.
Just like his insults to Trek fans criticizing ITD
brandonh83
Banned
Yep. I've seen Wrath of Khan and it's amusing to see people say it's a ripoff because of some fanboy connections that the writers admittedly had. The actual films couldn't feel any different.
What is an isn't "objectively awful" or "objectively charming" is subjective.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
It can be, sure. And a lot of the criticisms of those films are overstated for the sake of it, and much more often poorly thought out, regurgitated memes (much like the attacks on Into Darkness, honestly. It's funny that it took until Abrams to give Star Trek fans their own, bite-size budget take on tribal Prequel hate) But the pushback against people not liking those movies long ago surpassed the obnoxiousness of the "hate" being voiced.
Hell, the very terms we use to discuss criticism of those movies is set-up to diminish any thought that might have actually been put into the criticism. It's reductionist language - "Haters/Bashers/Gushers/Apologists" - people begin their conversations about these films looking not to discredit the films and the filmmaking, but to discredit anyone standing across from them. Arguments about the prequels more often than not become arguments about people, their level of intelligence, their level of devotion, and their qualifications as a being worthy of respect by whatever criteria we're choosing to use as measuring stick that day.
It's fucking exhausting.
Largely because it's been fairly obvious that the general perception of the Star Wars prequels, regardless their initial reactions upon release, is a middling-to-negative one. Stating you're not one of those people isn't some sort of revolutionary act. It just means you've volunteered to describe why you feel the opposite of the majority. It's when your explanation is then completely divorced from discussing the film and instead focused entirely on discussing how the rest of the world is somehow objectively wrong, and they're simply choosing to lie about it so they can look cool somehow, that whatever obnoxiousness you percieve from people who just hawk up RLM catchphrases like it was manna from the Gods is dwarfed by arguments that obviously aren't based in anything resembling honest opinion, but tribal defensiveness.
Basically, a lot of the "pushback against overreaction" isn't really that - it's an attempt to redefine basic criticism as emotional overreaction.
Gasoline fight in a frappucino factory.
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