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[brandonh83]

Arguments about the prequels more often than not become arguments about people, their level of intelligence, their level of devotion, and their qualifications as a being worthy of respect by whatever criteria we're choosing to use as measuring stick that day.

It's fucking exhausting.

Aaaaand this is why I can barely talk about fucking Star Wars. To anybody.

 

[Stinkles]

What is an isn't "objectively awful" or "objectively charming" is subjective.

Nope. I ran an algorithm. You can literally track review language terminology, scores, negative conversations versus positive and create a statistical picture that's objective. You can certainly argue chronological context but deep down, you know they're shit.

 

[Fj0823]

Aaaaand this is why I can barely talk about fucking Star Wars. To anybody.

At least in my country the opinion on them is generally positive among young people like me. I think it's largely due to the superb latino dub the movies got (Obi-Wan's mediocre voice notwithstanding) as it gave some really good emotion to some scenes.

But online or with older fans?....hoooooly shit

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

Nah, the vast majority of the hardcore fanbase likes them. Go to the big Star Wars Celebrations Lucasfilm runs or listen to pretty much any Star Wars podcast out there.

The fanbase, the actual obsessive fanbase tends to be very very defensive over them.

I would say prequel fans easily outnumber non-prequel fans in the Star Wars fan community by easily a 5 to 1 margin.

I mean look how beloved and obsessed over the prequel era series The Clone Wars is by fans now. Look at how Ashoka is easily one of the most popular characters among fans now. The prequels and prequel era is pretty well liked.

I guess I'll just never understand this part of the fanbase. Those movies were terrible. They're textbook examples of poor directing, wooden acting, simplistic and meandering writing, and horribly boring settings and characters. These are just my opinions, obviously, but I just don't get how there can be large groups of people who see it otherwise.

It almost makes me wonder if it's a Stockholm syndrome-type thing where they've spent so much time in this universe, paid out so much money on movies, toys, games, lunch boxes, blankets, underoos, etc, and expended so much energy fighting against the nay sayers over the years that they've grown to love that which has hurt them.

Or they just have really shitty taste.

But again, opinions and all that.

 

[Fj0823]

I guess I'll just never understand this part of the fanbase. Those movies were terrible. They're textbook examples of poor directing, wooden acting, simplistic and meandering writing, and horribly boring settings and characters. These are just my opinions, obviously, but I just don't get how there can be large groups of people who see it otherwise.

It almost makes me wonder if it's a Stockholm syndrome-type thing where they've become spent so much time in this universe, paid out so much money on movies, toys, games, lunch boxes, blankets, underoos, etc, and expended so much energy fighting against the nay sayers over the years that they've not grown to love that which has hurt them.

Or they just have really shitty taste.

But again, opinions and all that.

People here liked Speed Racer.

Sometimes, dumb fun movies are great. Not everything has to be a cinematic masterpiece.

Also The Clone Wars is some of the best Star Wars the franchise has to offer.

 

[CLEEK]

I guess I'll just never understand this part of the fanbase. Those movies were terrible. They're textbook examples of poor directing, wooden acting, simplistic and meandering writing, and horribly boring settings and characters. These are just my opinions, obviously, but I just don't get how there can be large groups of people who see it otherwise.

It almost makes me wonder if it's a Stockholm syndrome-type thing where they've become spent so much time in this universe, paid out so much money on movies, toys, games, lunch boxes, blankets, underoos, etc, and expended so much energy fighting against the nay sayers over the years that they've not grown to love that which has hurt them.

Or they just have really shitty taste.

But again, opinions and all that.

But enough about Trekkers, what do you think about the Star Wars prequels?

 

[F!ReW!Re]

It's when your explanation is then completely divorced from discussing the film and instead focused entirely on discussing how the rest of the world is somehow objectively wrong, and they're simply choosing to lie about it so they can look cool somehow, that whatever obnoxiousness you percieve from people who just hawk up RLM catchphrases like it was manna from the Gods is dwarfed by arguments that obviously aren't based in anything resembling honest opinion, but tribal defensiveness.

In regards to the RLM reviews, you got people on both sides of the spectrum referring it:
People preaching it constantly like it's a religion and people who dismiss it as shitty, worthless reviews that instantly label people who quote from it as a "prequel hater/basher".

But I think dismissing those reviews solely based on not liking the plinkett character and the horrible "abduction side-plots" is a mistake a lot of people make because there's actual valid and in-depth critisism in there.
It seems easier for people to "completely love" or "complete loath" the prequels instead of having a more subtle view on them. I remember liking them at first after their initial release but my view on them has soured after rewatching them later on.
There's no "this has destroyed my childhood" feeling for me now and I can still watch and appreciate them (although I definitely think they are not "particularly good" movies).

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

It can be, sure. And a lot of the criticisms of those films are overstated for the sake of it, and much more often poorly thought out, regurgitated memes (much like the attacks on Into Darkness, honestly. It's funny that it took until Abrams to give Star Trek fans their own, bite-size budget take on tribal Prequel hate) But the pushback against people not liking those movies long ago surpassed the obnoxiousness of the "hate" being voiced.

Hell, the very terms we use to discuss criticism of those movies is set-up to diminish any thought that might have actually been put into the criticism. It's reductionist language - "Haters/Bashers/Gushers/Apologists" - people begin their conversations about these films looking not to discredit the films and the filmmaking, but to discredit anyone standing across from them. Arguments about the prequels more often than not become arguments about people, their level of intelligence, their level of devotion, and their qualifications as a being worthy of respect by whatever criteria we're choosing to use as measuring stick that day.

It's fucking exhausting.

Largely because it's been fairly obvious that the general perception of the Star Wars prequels, regardless their initial reactions upon release, is a middling-to-negative one. Stating you're not one of those people isn't some sort of revolutionary act. It just means you've volunteered to describe why you feel the opposite of the majority. It's when your explanation is then completely divorced from discussing the film and instead focused entirely on discussing how the rest of the world is somehow objectively wrong, and they're simply choosing to lie about it so they can look cool somehow, that whatever obnoxiousness you percieve from people who just hawk up RLM catchphrases like it was manna from the Gods is dwarfed by arguments that obviously aren't based in anything resembling honest opinion, but tribal defensiveness.

Basically, a lot of the "pushback against overreaction" isn't really that - it's an attempt to redefine basic criticism as emotional overreaction.

I agree with most of what you wrote, but to address the bolded, I think one reason so many conversations on the topic start as an attack against the "opposing side" is because the merits of the films have been discussed ceaselessly since their release. The bones have been picked clean.

People here liked Speed Racer.

Sometimes, dumb fun movies are great. Not everything has to be a cinematic masterpiece.

Also The Clone Wars is some of the best Star Wars the franchise has to offer.

Oh believe me, I don't fault anyone who loves the prequels, faults and all. Some of my favorite movies are shitty shitfests full of shit that just crack me up. Hell, appreciation for that type of movie is why I've always been an MST3K fan.

What makes my head explode is those who try to push the idea that the prequels have no faults (or very few). That's just a bridge too far for me.

I can't speak on The Clone Wars series though, as I haven't seen it. However, some people whose opinions I trust have echoed your sentiment, so it seems the prequels were capable of spawning some good stuff.

But enough about Trekkers, what do you think about the Star Wars prequels?

I've never been a big Trek fan. I've enjoyed the older movies (Voyage Home GOAT Trek movie), and I thought the reboot was a great ride. Sure, it wasn't the "thinking man's Sci-fi" that the series' tended to lean toward, but in fairness, neither were most of the movies starring the Next Generation cast.

Into Darkness was pretty bland, predictable, and disappointing. I mean, it wasn't that it was poorly acted or directed. It's just that the writing cared more about setting up challenges for the film's heroes than it did finding meaningful ways to overcome those challenges while staying true to the soul of the characters themselves (the most glaring example being Spock's reaction to his friend dying. "I'm the cool, calm, logical Mr. Spock. Let me show you my serenity as I BEAT THE FUCKING SHIT OUT OF YOU WHILE SCREAMING AND CRYING LIKE ONE OF THE REAL HOUSEWIVES OF ORANGE COUNTY!").

In regards to the RLM reviews, you got people on both sides of the spectrum referring it:
People preaching it constantly like it's a religion and people who dismiss it as shitty, worthless reviews that instantly label people who quote from it as a "prequel hater/basher".

But I think dismissing those reviews solely based on not liking the plinkett character and the horrible "abduction side-plots" is a mistake a lot of people make because there's actual valid and in-depth critisism in there.
It seems easier for people to "completely love" or "complete loath" the prequels instead of having a more subtle view on them. I remember liking them at first after their initial release but my view on them has soured after rewatching them later on.
There's no "this has destroyed my childhood" feeling for me now and I can still watch and appreciate them (although I definitely think they are not "particularly good" movies).

I never understood the whole "the prequels destroyed my childhood" view. The originals didn't get erased when the prequels were released, and they also didn't alter the spacetime continuum. Your childhood and all the warm, fuzzy memories of it still exist. No movie will ever change that.

 

[Monocle]

Two things: 1) JJ seems like the right dude to shepherd Star Wars' next chapter on the big screen. 2) I want John Williams to be my grandpa.

 

[Monocle]

dp

 

[brandonh83]

Speed Racer is great. If you want to argue that, call in jett or Scullibundo. I often don't enjoy dancing toe to toe with those fucking pricks but when it comes to Speed Racer they are legit as you can imagine and folks that you can unequivocally call my friends.

 

[Spiritreaver]

Aaaaand this is why I can barely talk about fucking Star Wars. To anybody.

I posted this same thing in another thread a while back. Despite Star Wars being this massive franchise I just treat it as my own little thing these days.

It really hit me when I tried to talk with people about Clone Wars.

 

[brandonh83]

It really hit me when I tried to talk with people about Clone Wars.

Actually that hasn't been so bad--

YEAH CLONE WARS NOT THE PREQUELS FUCK YEAH FUCK LUCAS SO BETTER FUCK WHOOOO---

Nah it hasn't been that bad, most people seem to enjoy Clone Wars just fine for unspecified reasons.

 

[Kettch]

Nah, the vast majority of the hardcore fanbase likes them. Go to the big Star Wars Celebrations Lucasfilm runs or listen to pretty much any Star Wars podcast out there.

The fanbase, the actual obsessive fanbase tends to be very very defensive over them.

I would say prequel fans easily outnumber non-prequel fans in the Star Wars fan community by easily a 5 to 1 margin.

I mean look how beloved and obsessed over the prequel era series The Clone Wars is by fans now. Look at how Ashoka is easily one of the most popular characters among fans now. The prequels and prequel era is pretty well liked.

Eh, Ahsoka isn't the best example to show people love the prequels.

Assuming the community is split that way though, I would suggest that the prequels themselves are probably a big reason for it. I was a superfan throughout the 80s and 90s, used to regularly post on Star Wars forums discussing everything, but after the prequels I've steadily soured on the franchise to where I'm pretty disconnected from the entire fanbase these days.

It makes sense that the people who stuck with an obsessive community would be the ones who enjoyed the new stuff. There hasn't been much for us prequel haters to talk about it recent years.

 

[Monocle]

Not to create an obvious fallacy but anyone who defends the prequels under the pretense of being a "true" fan is delusional. They're objectively awful in a way that Lucas' own original was objectively charming.

You're going to take flak for this correct post, and I don't have the energy to lay out exactly how and why it's possible to evaluate movies in objective terms by examining the pure mechanics of effective filmmaking, which amount to the pipes and levers and pulleys that convey all of those elusive subjective qualities that people think of when they claim you can't make objective statements about art, but suffice it to say that I agree with you.

I'm reminded of a quote by the painter Richard Schmid: "t is not so easy to view the poignant look in a child's eyes as merely flat patches of color. It simply goes contrary to the emotional logic of experience. [...] [P]ainting the innocence in a child's expression is impossible, but painting the pattern of colors that create the expression is possible." (Alla Prima: Everything I Know About Painting, p.72)

Obvious differences between painting and filmmaking aside, I think Schmid's observation touches on an essential truth about making art and judging art. The emotions experienced by an audience for a given piece of media can't be brewed up and applied directly ("We need more pathos in this scene. Hand me the blue squirty bottle and stand back."), but emotional effects can be reliably achieved by understanding how people commonly react to certain stimuli. Then it's up to the creators and their collaborators to precisely design and arrange the right elements to communicate the intended message. (There's a reason that smooth jazz doesn't play when Darth Vader chops off Luke's hand in ESB. It's the same reason the Master Chief doesn't have a giant pink heart painted on his faceplate. Signs and symbols are emotional cues, signifiers that are more or less predictable when you know your audience.) Likewise, it may not be possible to weigh and measure the emotional qualities of movies, but we certainly can evaluate how effectively movies are constructed. We can look at the contextual rightness of their parts—the performances, music, prop design, lighting, framing, editing, dialog, narrative themes, etc.—and how skillfully they are made and combined and presented.

For these reasons, we can say that the Original Trilogy is charming where the Prequel Trilogy is cheesy and emotionally obtuse. ("It seems, in your anger, you killed her." "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!") It all comes down to their construction and presentation.

 

[sphagnum]

For these reasons, we can say that the Original Trilogy is charming where the Prequel Trilogy is cheesy and emotionally obtuse. ("It seems, in your anger, you killed her." "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!") It all comes down to their construction and presentation.

If we can't measure the "emotional qualities of movies" then it doesn't really matter, frankly, whether or not the technical aspects of a film are "objectively" one thing or another. That matters for people like us who enjoy dissecting movies or film criticism but not for everyone, and so whether or not something is "charming" or "obtuse" still ends up coming down to subjective opinion.

There are many people in the world who do not enjoy the OT, who find it boring. That's rather bizarre to us but they are numerous, especially (at least from my personal observations) among people who did not grow up with them. They tend to find ANH at the very least incredibly cheesy. Maybe that shows a lack of appreciation for film history, but do their opinions not count because they don't understand the "objective" superiority of a thing? My girlfriend hates the OT. She thinks it is simplistic and dull. The story doesn't resonate with her. She likes the prequels a bit more because she thinks the plot is more interesting and likes the visuals of it. I guess she's just dumb?

Films just affect people in different ways and not everyone judges things by the same criteria.

 

[Jibbed]

Watch this, folks.

Whether you hate the prequels or not, you have to admit this is pretty great.

 

[Monocle]

If we can't measure the "emotional qualities of movies" then it doesn't really matter, frankly, whether or not the technical aspects of a film are "objectively" one thing or another. That matters for people like us who enjoy dissecting movies or film criticism but not for everyone, and so whether or not something is "charming" or "obtuse" still ends up coming down to subjective opinion.

There are many people in the world who do not enjoy the OT, who find it boring. That's rather bizarre to us but they are numerous, especially (at least from my personal observations) among people who did not grow up with them. They tend to find ANH at the very least incredibly cheesy. Maybe that shows a lack of appreciation for film history, but do their opinions not count because they don't understand the "objective" superiority of a thing? My girlfriend hates the OT. She thinks it is simplistic and dull. The story doesn't resonate with her. She likes the prequels a bit more because she thinks the plot is more interesting and likes the visuals of it. I guess she's just dumb?

Films just affect people in different ways and not everyone judges things by the same criteria.

You might as well follow that logic through to its conclusion and start saying things like, "It is unclear if Schindler's List or White Girls has greater emotional resonance and enduring human themes." Let's go ahead and dump all of our standards in the sewer because the subjective and objective qualities of art can be hard to isolate and parse.

Once again, context is the key. Which means, in practice, that the task of the critic (and critical audience member) is to see how well a piece of art fits into different boxes, and perhaps to come up with their own special chimera to encompass an especially complex or challenging piece. The prequels don't fit into the "love story" or "adventure story" or indeed "prequel" boxes very well at all, and I don't think it's controversial to suggest that Lucas probably meant for them to work in those roles. On that basis at least, when you take the films on their own terms and look at what they're evidently trying to be, the prequels compare unfavorably with the originals, which are very solid pulp adventure stories (in space!) that totally nail the Hero's Journey. I can say this objectively, because it's right there in their structure, for anyone who cares to look.

Star Wars' great storytelling doesn't depend on whether or not your girlfriend is aware of the nuts and bolts of effective filmmaking, or receptive to its plot and setting. The OT is a set of well made films, even if she doesn't like them.

 

[Blood Diamonds]

I really need to finish Episode V to and move on to the prequels because that's apparently a thing. The only reason I'm watching the previous movies is because this one is coming out so maybe the hype and their marketing is having a similar effect on other people

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Speed Racer is great. If you want to argue that, call in jett or Scullibundo. I often don't enjoy dancing toe to toe with those fucking pricks but when it comes to Speed Racer they are legit as you can imagine and folks that you can unequivocally call my friends.

Haha ahh man I had a good good laugh over this Brandon

 

[Forkball]

Wow a lot of people quoted me.

I know there could be a myriad of reasons of why JJ is not directing Episode VIII, but I would like to hear his perspective and how he feels with how Disney is scheduling the franchise. He is a producer on VIII (maybe IX I guess) so he is seemingly still involved in some aspects. Also I'm not sold on the directors of VIII and IX, but we will see. Dude could you imagine if George Miller directed Star Wars? THAT WOULD BE TIGHT.

 

[Abounder]

Nah, the vast majority of the hardcore fanbase likes them. Go to the big Star Wars Celebrations Lucasfilm runs or listen to pretty much any Star Wars podcast out there.

The fanbase, the actual obsessive fanbase tends to be very very defensive over them.

I would say prequel fans easily outnumber non-prequel fans in the Star Wars fan community by easily a 5 to 1 margin.

I mean look how beloved and obsessed over the prequel era series The Clone Wars is by fans now. Look at how Ashoka is easily one of the most popular characters among fans now. The prequels and prequel era is pretty well liked.

The CGI cartoon and 3D were more like passion projects for George Lucas than something that represents the Star Wars fan, especially curious about your "5 to 1" margin. Without Georgie's pocketbooks that show would have died earlier because the fan support wasn't there to back up the budget especially if Rebels is of any indication. The so-called 'obsessive Star Wars fan' relentlessly shits on the prequels, they love to hate rather than defend them. And the numbers say it all:

A New Hope special edition - $138m
Phantom Menace 3D - $43m, putting the rest of the 3D saga on hold
Ashoka Tano movie - $35m, disappointment to say the least.

More fans want to see Harrison Ford and co.

 

[WadiumArcadium]

Fans want to see Harrison Ford and the Falcon again, not prequel lore

I want both of these so I guess I'm not a true fan.

 

[Abounder]

I want both of these so I guess I'm not a true fan.

Say what? I wrote more fans want to see more of the classic saga, there was nothing about 'true fan' bullshit.

However you are out of touch if you think more fans defend the prequels than shit on them. SW fans love to hate on the prequels, Cheebo's "5 to 1" ratio is backwards. Numbers say it all as well, not to mention the upcoming films that feature the OT like Rogue One's setting, Force Awakens and the big 3, and the young Han Solo flick

 

[WadiumArcadium]

Say what? I wrote more fans want to see more of the classic saga, there was nothing about that 'true fan' bullshit.

However you are out of touch if you think more fans defend the prequels than shit on them. Numbers say it all as well, not to mention the upcoming films that feature the OT like Rogue One's setting, Force Awakens and the big 3, and the young Han Solo flick

No, you edited your post.

I don't think it can be quantified that easily. People who don't like something tend to be pretty vocal about it on the internet. In regards to the comparison with the Clone Wars animated film and Phantom Menace 3D re-release, of course they're not going to compete with a re-release of a film that was released a few decades ago with actual changes made to it. Many people, myself included, weren't able to watch it in the cinema originally as well. It doesn't make sense to use those statistics to compare them at all. I'm not sure I agree with Cheebos 5 to 1 ratio, but there's no doubt a lot of people do enjoy prequel era content. Look at the reaction to the Clone Wars cancellation.

 

[Abounder]

No, you edited your post.

I don't think it can be quantified that easily. People who don't like something tend to be pretty vocal about it on the internet. In regards to the comparison with the Clone Wars animated film and Phantom Menace 3D re-release, of course they're not going to compete with a new live-action film. It doesn't make sense to use those statistics to compare them at all. I'm not sure I agree with Cheebos 5 to 1 ratio, but there's no doubt a lot of people do enjoy prequel era content. Look at the reaction to the Clone Wars cancellation.

Even without the edit there was nothing about 'true fandom', the point was about number of fans $. The Clone Wars cartoons and Phantom Menace 3D couldn't compete with the OT Special Editions, which makes Cheebos 5 to 1 number look backwards. And if the money isn't enough then look at Lucasilm's saga direction - Rebels, young Han Solo, Rogue One, TFA...they're all exploiting the OT because that's what (most) fans want. Star Wars fans love to hate rather than defend the prequels, and it's become ingrained in pop culture.

For a tangent last week's Startalk featured Larry Wilmore, and both Wilmore and Neil deGrasse Tyson made it a point to say they were fans of the 'real' Star Wars trilogy when they talked about being excited for TFA. Whether its anecdotes, box office, or pop culture....I just don't see where these vast number of PT defenders are. Phantom Menace re-release basically killed the 3D saga, and Tano's epic adventures was essentialy replaced by a low budget space Aladdin character. Without George's passion those projects would have faded out earlier because they couldn't get more SW fans to watch the new prequels content

 

[Fj0823]

The Clone Wars "movie" was a bad looking film

The Clone Wars series is a great looking TV show


Comparing it's performance against the OT without knowing that TCW was never supposed to be a movie is just unfair. The theater release wa just marketing. TCW was never supposed to be a cinenatic experience.

Look at fan reactions to Ahsoka or Rex coming back. People lost their shit. They're very well liked characters. The series was popular.

There is a reason why the Disney Infinity game has Ahsoka on the cover instead of Luke. And there is a reason TCW was the only EU to survive the purge.

Also Ahsoka's adventures were not replaced by low budget Aladdin. You should actually watch the series. It looks very well made and Ahsoka is the hypest character to ever get hyped in it.

 

[CD'S BAR]

Gonna sound like an asshole here but I honestly feel if you think the prequels are good and the OT is boring or whatever, then you're a little bit dumb, or you're a kid (in which case you're a little bit dumb).

However hating PT and OT all together is sound judgement I can respect, though I love the OT.

Also funny how this thread took less than 5 pages to turn into prequel hate. Not that I mind.

 

[Abounder]

Comparing it's performance against the OT without knowing that TCW was never supposed to be a movie is just unfair. The theater release wa just marketing. TCW was never supposed to be a cinenatic experience.

Look at fan reactions to Ahsoka or Rex coming back. People lost their shit. They're very well liked characters. The series was popular.

There is a reason why the Disney Infinity game has Ahsoka on the cover instead of Luke. And there is a reason TCW was the only EU to survive the purge.
Also Ahsoka's adventures were not replaced by low budget Aladdin. You should actually watch the series. It looks very well made and Ahsoka is the hypest character to ever get hyped in it.

This all goes back to Cheebo's point about PT fans outnumbering haters 5:1, so numbers would be fantastic to see. The Ahsoka film/series and 3D Phantom Menace were more like passion projects from George Lucas than something fueled by fan reactions. I think TCW survived for its production value (plus George Lucas was more involved unlike most EU) and while Disney Infinity is a hit with girls unfortunately the female characters including Ashoka are still in the back of the pack for other promos.

I've watched TCW and am watching Rebels. A common criticism was the undeniable drop in production quality, and both series get hyped with references from the OT ala TCW's Chewie/Tarkin episodes or Vader in Rebels. For me the payoff for enduring Ashoka Tano's earlier seasons is not something most fans will experience, and on a tangent Darth Maul should have stayed legless lol.

It's fine to like the prequels and Ahsoka Tano, but that doesn't sound popular with most fans (especially not shared by 5:1 fans, likely the opposite of that). We can see this in the box office, cancelling the other 3D rereleases, pop culture impact, and the direction Lucasfilm is heading in. PT fans are a fish in a bigger fish

 

[brandonh83]

Haha ahh man I had a good good laugh over this Brandon

Sorry was kinda drunk when I posted that I meant it in total jest toward those dudes. I woke up and was like yikes.

But no Speed Racer is awesome. And I'm sober now.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Also funny how this thread took less than 5 pages to turn into prequel hate. Not that I mind.

Of course it did! Hell, it managed to get there by detouring through Into Darkness bullshit, which is kind of a first.

And the only reason we're reallys even here at all is due to an interview where Abrams acknowledges mistakes and says he's tried to avoid them this time out. So not only have we landed on a bullshit, picked clean decade old argument via a new bit of bullshit, but we went out of our way to go turdstomping even though the guy specifically pointed these piles out for us to dodge with him.

 

[jett]

Speed Racer is great. If you want to argue that, call in jett or Scullibundo. I often don't enjoy dancing toe to toe with those fucking pricks but when it comes to Speed Racer they are legit as you can imagine and folks that you can unequivocally call my friends.

 

[brandonh83]

lol sorry, as I said I wasn't being serious. It was in poor taste. You and Sculli have my sincerest apology. I didnt think it'd be taken seriously but its still too extreme.

There's going to be some new clips soon. I don't want or need to see them

 

[JB1981]

People here liked Speed Racer.

Sometimes, dumb fun movies are great. Not everything has to be a cinematic masterpiece.

Also The Clone Wars is some of the best Star Wars the franchise has to offer.

Speed Racer has more creativity in its opening sequence than all the prequels combined. And from an editing and directing perspective there is no contest. Speed Racer blows it out of the water.

 

[bengraven]

Find out this December 17™!

That's like the only thing I care about in this movie.

I have a feeling it will be more like "we'll kill one or two and the rest you'll need to read their mini-series in a few years".

Gasoline fight in a frappucino factory.

The Knights of Ren wield Blue Steel blades.

 

[-griffy-]

Whoever first mentioned Speed Racer in this thread made a mistake.

 

[Tesseract]

why is han cold

don't die

 

[Fj0823]

Whoever first mentioned Speed Racer in this thread made a mistake.

I did, it's a colorful but incredibly stupid cartoony movie. My entire group walked out on it.

I was surprised to see it get so much love here. But I suppose a lot of people wanted exactly that out of a Speed Racer film.

To be honest, I would've hated a Jem and the Holograms treatment a lot more. So I guess I can see where the love comes from

 

[-griffy-]

I did, it's a colorful but incredibly stupid cartoony movie. My entire group walked out on it.

I was surprised to see it get so much love here.

Stop talking about it! It was bad enough when the thread became about Into Darkness!

 

[Fj0823]

Stop talking about it! It was bad enough when the thread became about Into Darkness!

Ah crap....let's talk about Pacific Rim then!!

;P

Spoiler

I loved PR

 

[Wvrs]

Not to create an obvious fallacy but anyone who defends the prequels under the pretense of being a "true" fan is delusional. They're objectively awful in a way that Lucas' own original was objectively charming.

Bit of an odd thing to say; around any piece of creative work you will find fans and detractors. To denounce something as being unequivocally and objectively 'awful' based on your own (or even the vast majority) opinion is ridiculous.

If you'll forgive my bringing the matter into more personal grounds, look at Halo 4; I loved the game, and it sits high up in my series ranking. I found the story wonderful and, even if I questioned some of the design decisions, found it an extremely fun game overall. But you only have to look on this forum alone to find a majority fan opinion that would label it 'awful' it for many of the reasons (such as the introduction of the greater EU, or its comparatively faster-based nature) I would have labelled it 'charming.'

Is either opinion more worthy? I'm sure you would immediately resent someone as referring to the game as objectively awful, and you'd be right to do so -- nothing is objectively awful, and if people enjoy the SW prequels and express desire to see their legacy referenced in a way the OT is being referring then they should be able to express that sentiment without being pariah'd.

 

[brandonh83]

Speed Racer has more creativity in its opening sequence than all the prequels combined. And from an editing and directing perspective there is no contest. Speed Racer blows it out of the water.

What most people think of Speed Racer is just criminal

But really really cool and smart people like us and especially Sculli and jett get it.

 

[Stinkles]

Bit of an odd thing to say; around any piece of creative work you will find fans and detractors. To denounce something as being unequivocally and objectively 'awful' based on your own (or even the vast majority) opinion is ridiculous.

If you'll forgive my bringing the matter into more personal grounds, look at Halo 4; I loved the game, and it sits high up in my series ranking. I found the story wonderful and, even if I questioned some of the design decisions, found it an extremely fun game overall. But you only have to look on this forum alone to find a majority fan opinion that would label it 'awful' it for many of the reasons (such as the introduction of the greater EU, or its comparatively faster-based nature) I would have labelled it 'charming.'

Is either opinion more worthy? I'm sure you would immediately resent someone as referring to the game as objectively awful, and you'd be right to do so -- nothing is objectively awful, and if people enjoy the SW prequels and express desire to see their legacy referenced in a way the OT is being referring then they should be able to express that sentiment without being pariah'd.

I actually just meant reviews, which is the only objective way to gauge or at least calibrate a subjective medium. And it especially applies to I and II. And again, my main point wasn't even that, it was that claiming "true fan" high ground was more ludicrous yet.

 

[SolidChamp]

I like the three director approch. But im bummed out they chose Trevorrow man.

He'll be the Richard Marquand of the new trilogy.

 

[PsihoPerihelion]

I want him to harvest mine and others' lifeforce so he can live forever.

I would give him my entire lifetime if that means that Michael Giacchino is NEVER getting even close to this franchise (you kinda know he's a a shoo-in to replace Williams once he leaves)

 

[Demoncarnotaur]

Cool interv- oh, it's gotten to that weird Speed Racer point already?

 

[crackhead_bob]

Serious question for everyone here. What really sank the prequels in the minds of many fans? Was it the bad acting/writing? Was it the poorly executed storyline and themes? Over reliance of CGI?

I don't have a definitive answer, but I will go out on a limb by saying that the CGI isn't what soured me on the prequels. Alot of the CGI looked cheesy, but no more cheesy than the outdated puppet effects that were used in the OT and films like Jaws and E.T.. I really think if the writing and acting were handled more competently, most people wouldn't be dogging on the cgi effects as badly as they're doing now.

 

[Sectorseven]

Shitty writing. Jar Jar was the most developed character in The Phantom Menace. Let that sink in for a minute.

 

[Toxi]

I mean look how beloved and obsessed over the prequel era series The Clone Wars is by fans now. Look at how Ashoka is easily one of the most popular characters among fans now. The prequels and prequel era is pretty well liked.

Liking Clone Wars doesn't necessarily mean liking the prequels. I fucking love Clone Wars and I'm not fond of the prequels.

Tying all things set in the prequel era to the prequels is one of my pet peeves with the Star Wars fanbase. Judging Clone Wars by the quality of the prequels is like judging the Star Wars Holiday Special by the quality of the original trilogy.

Wasn't Star Trek Into Darkness rated as the worse ST movie not long ago? It's definitely near the bottom. And yeah it was painfully bad.

It's what made me fear for Star Wars but it appears to be hitting all the right notes thankfully.

I don't like Into Darkness, but it's nowhere near the worst Star Trek movie. I can think of four worse ones off the top of my head.

Generations, Final Frontier, Insurrection, Nemesis

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Yeah, I feel it's disingenous to conflate stories in the prequel era with the prequels themselves. Liking Clone Wars doesn't mean you automatically like the prequels. I'm sure there's a lot of overlap, yeah, but a movie isn't simply its setting.