Bernardougf
Member
All I see is gaas push failure, projects canceled and the worst first party output ever imho ...and them he retired. Take from that what you will, its all speculative anyway. I think he was given a way out. As most are.
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Jason Schreier: heads rolling at Sony for the cancellation of The Last of Us Online after 4 years in development
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
He doesn't want us to look into that. He just wants us to believe his vagaries.
Unrivaledx88
Member
Bc it’s not a big seller glad they canceled it , I’m sure it has a following .
NonPhixion
Member
No, Ma’am. Do they understand English as well?
Rocco Schiavone
Member
Sony sucks since the PS4 era regarding multiplayer games. Nothing new.
At least someone got fired.
At least someone got fired.
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Killjoy-NL
Member
Killing Xbox is the mic-drop highlight of his career.
It won't get better than that and Playstation has room to breathe abd reassess their businessplan.
Getting fired over Factions, London Studio and Firesprite doesn't make any sense.
It's not even that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things.
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Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
PlayStations most played games are GAAS titles. Their audience overwhelmingly prefers GAAS.
PlayStation would rather do what they've always done (single player). The reason why they've taken the risk & discomfort & cost to change is because the data is so overwhelming that they feel forced to.
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
Makes even less sense, because Sony were the ones responsible for encouraging ND to move from TLOU2 online MP as an add on to a full-fledged standalone product. WWS leadership would have brought in Bungie to advise ND and essentially, WWS leadership would have made the decision to scrap the project due to the desire not to sacrifice ND as SP-focused studio.
Even the reasoning for scrapping the project was no-one at SCE WWS or ND's fault. None of them had any idea what a full GaaS needed in terms of dev support until they brought in ND. So, there is no-one in either Sony WWS or ND who failed and thus could be held accountable for the change in direction.
J.Cuckster is spouting his own BS conjecture and pretending it's insider info.
Although the most played games on its console are GaaS, the brand has built its success on the shoulders of single-player games and the magnificent support for developers both on the hardware and software side.
They are changing a lot of that by trying to do and change too many things at the same time to make quick money.
StueyDuck
Member
Who gives a fuck.
Little weenie has an axe to grind cause studios don't line up with his viewpoints. Whether Rockstar works alot or not doesn't affect me and I'm not gonna congratulate a weenie for being a weenie.
Dude needs to grow a pair.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
The brand has shifted so much since PS1 to PS4. PlayStation has done a wonderful job at reading the market during that time period and serving players what they want.
They're doing the exact same thing with GAAS.
Nothing has changed at PlayStation. They keep giving their audience what they want. Their audience now wants GAAS.
FunkMiller
Gold Member
...but only a few of them. Not seen anything to suggest that the market can sustain anything more than a handful of successful GaaS, which is why they probably shit-canned this. Too much risk in an uncertain market.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
You don't have to see it because you have no stake in the game. You're just a single customer with very little information surrounding the matter.
PlayStation sees it. They've built entire departments reading acute data on these trends. A lot is riding on how well they can read the market. They've been really good at doing that since the PS1. Nothing suggests that they all of a sudden got bad at it now.
Negotiator101
Member
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Hes been right about everything with ND. id say earned the right to be trustworthy.
it seems you are the one who has an axe to grind against a dude for just doing his job and reporting on the state of the industry.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
I look at the data. The PS5 generation has been OVERWHELMINGLY the most profitable generation in PlayStation history thanks to GAAS. Don't let the echo chambers online sway your opinion on the matter.Where have you been this generation?
They have been able to read the market so well that now they have their best studio completely upside down.
A part of the audience will look to play GaaS games, and they may be the most played and most profitable games in the short term, but they are not the ones we all want. All you have to do is see that only a few of these games succeed and it is difficult for them to do so to such an extent that a company like PlayStation can live off their success.
If I have bought a PlayStation console it is for its exclusive single-player games, not to play GaaS multiplatforms. And I'm not the only one.
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Negotiator101
Member
First party is in a state of disarray, Sony HQ are not happy with the divisions performance, candy coat whatever but that's a fact.
StueyDuck
Member
Hey if you like weenies that's good for you.
He's not really a reporter or reporting on anything. More like a sensationalist journalist.
Just because it's negative doesn't mean it's journalism
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Negotiator101
Member
How old are you?
Hudo
Member
Yeah. What is Yoshida doing these days? He's still at Sony, right?
I am just asking because that's the only place I've seen "ESL" being thrown around.
Killjoy-NL
Member
The brand was built on multiplayer as well. Let's not pretend that games like Socom, Killzone, Resistance, MAG, Warhawk, Motorstorm, Driveclub, GT etc didn't have dedicated fanbases.
It was only during PS4 that Sony really focused primarily on singleplayer games and even then we still have Killzone Shadowfall, GT, Uncharted and Ghost of Tsushima with decent to great multiplayer components.
The only one that got pushed back and ultimately canceled was Factions 2.
All these games are part of what made the Playstation brand strong, but Sony relied more on 3rd party for Gaas last-gen.
They are just picking up where they were slacking with PS4. It's not something new to them.
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That's how cancellations work?
Also online games are not cheap to make - eg. GTA:O was a 1000 people for the final 18 months of development (after GTA:5 was out), and it probably continued with a team in the hundreds for the rest of its life (but of course - it's been wildly successful).
Yea I wouldn't be surprised if this happened.
Sad part is - this industry wen through an entire cycle of this back in 2010 (with very similar expensive cancellations and more) - and it's all just repeating exactly the same mistakes as if noone ever learns (well - some do - but because of how the industry pays - they go do better things with their life).
StueyDuck
Member
Old enough to know that asking how old are you is the response of someone whose not really mentally equipped enough to tackle the situation being presented to them
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Stooky
Member
nah, he’s about 50/50. half he gets right half gets wrong. his headlines are close. his stories are always off.
semiconscious
Member
is he saying that it was so bad that, even up to today, those heads are continuing to roll? where can I go to watch them?...
Negotiator101
Member
So either between 18 to 24 or someone seriously lacking people skills.
skit_data
Gold Member
He said "there were some heads rolling" but I guess that thread title wasn't spicy enough and some of the posters ITT seems to think this is ongoing as we speak
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Many of these games are single-player campaigns with the addition of multiplayer.
Sony has always had single player games that have been a hit since Ps1 with games like Gran Turismo and Crash Bandicoot.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
It was Jimbo and Herman's big push for GaaS that resulted in investments in Concord, Factions, FairGames, the cancelled ex-treyarch project and 7 other GaaS titles they had planned to released by 2025.
What we are seeing now is the direct result of them reducing the investment in single player games in 2022 from 2019 when they shouldve been increasing it instead in order to keep up with the gen on gen increase in development costs. But all that extra cash Sony was making from those single player games went into acquisitions for Live Service studios and games most of which will never see the light of day. By 2025, they were finally set to increase their SP spending but they are going all in on GaaS by next year which means a lot of extra dollars wasted on trash like concord that we havent seen yet. Marathon is focus testing really poorly so thats another failure and why we havent seen it since its announcement at last year's E3. You might have GG working on some GaaS trash as well. Horizon's MP pics were leaked of fat women on crutches with some of the ugliest graphics ever. It will also likely get cancelled. Bend is also working on a GaaS game. if you think Cocord and FairGames are bad, just wait, the worst is yet to come.
id like to see the receipts. I always see people question his reports when they come out and yet time proves him right. I still remember people clowning on him when he wrote in his book that amy henning was indeed forced out after clashes with neil and bruce, only for the Sully actor to confirm that a few years later. When he broke that news about ND remaking TLOU1, people on this very board refused to believe Sony would commission such a useless remake let alone waste ND's time with it, but he was right once again.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
lets not insult the 18-24 demographic. I havent seen anyone use the term weenie. might be 10-12 at best.
saudi arabia, every friday afternoon in the city square.
Negotiator101
Member
Missing the point though, complete mismanagement of ND resulted in many wasted years where they could have been doing what they do best. Singleplayer games are their bread and butter and the choice to expand a small MP component for TLOU2 into a standalone GaaS game was a massive mistake.
Killjoy-NL
Member
For PS4, sure.
Before that, most of those games were popular due their multiplayer modes that kept people playing. Especially the shooters.
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Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
Sony got really lucky this gen. Their consumer base has definitely bailed them out. And right around the time all this stuff was going down, PS+ jumped 30% for no reason. That's the lost money from their failed projects getting recouped at everyone's expense. Jim Ryan raised that on his way out the door.
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ReBurn
Gold Member
The brand has certainly built its success on single player games, but as we've read time and again those experiences take too long and cost too much to build to support all of PlayStation. It's not quick money they're trying to make. They're trying to create a sustainable recurring revenue pipeline based on GaaS and MTX to keep money coming in while Naughty Dog takes a whole generation to deliver a new game. Helldivers II has been every bit as important to Sony this year as any of their single player games.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Yep. This is what they got away from at the end of the PS4 era and they overcorrected by splitting Factions from TLOU2 as if people were going to pay $70 for a online only game.
I hated COD mp in the PS3 gen and was meh on most Battlefield games. Sony games like Socom, Resistance 1-3, KZ2-3, uncharted 2-3, TLOU1 and MAG were my jam. I spent thousands of hours playing those games. And while some of those games were flops, all they had to do was add monetization to them because they all had a very dedicated fanbase. You only need less than 1% of whales that will keep your game profitable through microtransactions and sony games had a very dedicated fanbase. Just launch the fucking mp modes with your single player games like you used to and use smart content drops to keep others engaged.
But no, they went all in on SP leaving out MP from horizon, spiderman, and TLOU2 which left sony with no recurring revenue in between long dev cycles then they overcorrected by signing off on big buget GaaS games like factions and acquisitions and funding of 5 GaaS studios, 4 of which were completely untested. Nah, just create mp teams within those studios and have them work on mp modes like you used to.
Just greed, mismanagement, and lack of good leadership from Neil, Cory, and GG' heads like Herman.
James Sawyer Ford
Banned
There was no reduction in SP investment
GaaS just got most of the increase in investment
This wasn’t some small time ‘incubation project’. This was Naughty Dog’s Next Big Thing, cited as their most ambitious game yet. They were most certainly in full production, as you’d expect after nearly 4 years of work.
From their statement, it’s easy enough to infer that they were in full production, and if they had something Bungie could review and assess, it insinuates they already had a vertical slice ready.
James Sawyer Ford
Banned
Nope, this would not have worked, sorry
James Sawyer Ford
Banned
No. They earned their spot by having the best games lineup by far. It has nothing to do with luck. Their lineup is better than any previous PlayStation console outside of the ps2 era which had far more third party exclusives as norm
Na, that would have just delayed the singleplayer and would have taken even longer. The benefit with live service games is that you can release a barebones game and then add content later with content updates. It's not what prevented MP in part 1 remake.
ReBurn
Gold Member
I don't think it was luck. What has kept PlayStation going is the 30% rake they get from third party games and MTX. They've called out their dependence on third party revenue as a risk in many of their recent quarterly reports. They've also highlighted decreases in profitability from shrinking first party game sales (because it takes forever to develop and release those games) and costs associated with discounting consoles to hit sell in targets. If they lose significant third party sales they'll be in trouble, which is why they need good GaaS games of their own to keep people engaged and playing. Third party revenue should be gravy for them, not the main course.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
.... the next 18 months are going to be rough for some people.
MacReady13
Member
Give me the Sony from the PS1/PS2 eras. You know, the Sony that took chances. That was run by their Japan arm and not the way it is now.
Muffdraul
Member
Fine. I admit it. I'm have PTSD from all the years of MP obsessed freaks whining about TLOU2 not having MP. I have TLOUMPDS. The Last of Us Multiplayer Derangement Syndrome.
Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
They're clearly winning, and have the bulk of sales. I guess my point (just my opinion) is that it comes off as luck to me that they are this dominant, because it feels like all of it mostly the result of good will generated last generation, and from an unusually aggressively loyal consumer base. I don't think Sony fans were that loyal at the start of the PS3. I've never seen anything like the loyalty this gen. Games prices up, system price up, and sub price up while game releases have gone down, showcases disappear and trailers never materialize.
There is no change in PS+ at all. Their PS+ consumers are literally paying for Factions 2 but not getting the game. They're paying for Bungie. And they're paying for Concord. Gamepass has raised prices, but you at least see Call of Duty added.
But anyway, Sony has tons of fans who are perfectly happy so I'm not acting like everyone agrees with me. My whole point is that they're still happy, and Sony is lucky to have those fans.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
They don't. Their best studio is deep into their next big AAA SP game. The structure of Naughty Dog has been SP oriented for the past 4 years. The dumbest, clickbait news sources have tried to spin the narrative of "Can you believe Naughty Dog was making a multiplayer game this whole time when they could have been making a SP game?! Apocalypse now!"
They do that because they know that will drive the most clicks.
Who is "we"? PlayStation just looks at their user data. They don't base their choices on echo chambers online. Your preferences are just as valid as a GAAS gamers preferences to them and...looking at the data...the GAAS gamers are more lucrative.
PlayStation saw that well before you or I. They know about something as basic as success rate in every genre. PlayStation sees growth potential in GAAS and rightfully so. They believe they're positioned well to take advantage of that growth potential.
Sony used to make rice cookers before they made audio equipment. If you're into rice cookers then either keep looking at Sony's rice cooking segment, or buy a different product next time. The audio portion of the market is too lucrative to ignore.
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