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Jason Schrier "Xbox is a 'mess' right now, Plans change every year, Teasing "Handheld" right now"

If, microsoft made multiple 90 plus games that didn't go to other platforms and people didn't pick up an Xbox because they were so dedicated to PS5, the issue is 100% with the end user and not Xbox in that scenario. You can offer a horse water but can't make it drink, right?

The majority of console users are tied to the PS ecosystem now through digital libraries, trophies, friends etc

In order for Microsoft to compete, they’d not only have to match Sony’s output, they’d have to seriously exceed it, and that’s no guarantee.

Instead they’re going in the total opposite direction, no 90+ games outside of Forza Horizon and Flight Sim, and all games seemingly going to PlayStation.

 
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DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
The majority of console users are tied to the PS ecosystem now though through digital libraries, trophies, friends etc

In order for Microsoft to compete, they’d not only have to match Sony’s output, they’d have to seriously exceed it.

Yup, 100%. One megaton game has the power to move some of the needle but you need multiple and consistently.
 
Yup, 100%. One megaton game has the power to move some of the needle but you need multiple and consistently.

I think this has dawned more and more on MS execs over the past couple of years. I think Starfield’s failure to move the needle was likely the final straw.

Phil’s not done a great job with Xbox, but the decisions being made now seem to be out of his hands and he now has to tow the party line.
 

GHG

Member
If, microsoft made multiple 90 plus games that didn't go to other platforms and people didn't pick up an Xbox because they were so dedicated to PS5, the issue is 100% with the end user and not Xbox in that scenario. You can offer a horse water but can't make it drink, right?

Firstly they are not, and as as long as they continue to have the same structure in place for developing games at their internal studios, they will not.

Secondly, they are no longer making games with the mindset that they will be console exclusive on Xbox, and everyone knows that.

So why blame the paying customer, when it's their decisions and actions that have led to consumers overwhelmingly choosing alternatives?
 

DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
Firstly they are not, and as as long as they continue to have the same structure in place for developing games at their internal studios, they will not.

Secondly, they are no longer making games with the mindset that they will be console exclusive on Xbox, and everyone knows that.

So why blame the paying customer, when it's their decisions and actions that have led to consumers overwhelmingly choosing alternatives?

I'm not blaming the customer, dude.

Look at the post I was responding to. The poster literally said MS could release multiple bangers and Playstation could just release PS4 remasters and they would still fail. I said in that scenario the issue is with the end user, not MS.
 
I'm not blaming the customer, dude.

Look at the post I was responding to. The poster literally said MS could release multiple bangers and Playstation could just release PS4 remasters and they would still fail. I said in that scenario the issue is with the end user, not MS.

Speaking of Sony, all this is probably why they’re not rushing out games.

2 of the biggest threats to their business (Xbox and Stadia) were effectively eliminated last year..

Nintendo and Valve are probably breathing a sigh of relief too.
 
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GHG

Member
I'm not blaming the customer, dude.

Look at the post I was responding to. The poster literally said MS could release multiple bangers and Playstation could just release PS4 remasters and they would still fail. I said in that scenario the issue is with the end user, not MS.

Well I don't believe that to be true at all.

This idea that the sunk cost fallacy and existing digital libraries will keep people perpetually tied to a console/ecosystem is only true up to a certain point. There's only so much shit people can take and will be willing to put up with.

Microsoft love using that as an excuse. They used it when the windows phone failed because of their own stupid decisions and they are using it again with Xbox.

Instead of controlling what they can control (which is their output, their hardware and how they decide to put themesleves out there to developers and customers around the world) they would rather point the finger and make excuses. When that kind of defeatest victim mentality is coming from pretty much the most wealthy company in the world, it's impossible to take them seriously.
 

DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
Well I don't believe that to be true at all.

This idea that the sunk cost fallacy and existing digital libraries will keep people perpetually tied to a console/ecosystem is only true up to a certain point. There's only so much shit people can take and will be willing to put up with.

Microsoft love using that as an excuse. They used it when the windows phone failed because of their own stupid decisions and they are using it again with Xbox.

Instead of controlling what they can control (which is their output, their hardware and how they decide to put themesleves out there to developers and customers around the world) they would rather point the finger and make excuses. When that kind of defeatest victim mentality is coming from pretty much the most wealthy company in the world, it's impossible to take them seriously.

So we are on the same page.
 
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m14

Member
It all just sounds like hopium to me.

Xbox is failing, therefore PlayStation must fail too.

Xbox is failing, therefore consoles are failing.
I'm not hoping for any of the console makers to fail, that's how we differ.
Your faith in Sony is excessive given their history. Ultimately only time will prove whether you were correct to ignore the stark warnings from their past.

And yes PS5 sales have continued to fall as well.
M14 shooting from the hip again I see.

Welcome back, whoever you are.
The poster I responded to was claiming that Microsoft had done nothing right in gaming since 2010. Would you not say that was "shooting from the hip" moreso than anything I posted?
 
I'm not hoping for any of the console makers to fail, that's how we differ.
Your faith in Sony is excessive given their history. Ultimately only time will prove whether you were correct to ignore the stark warnings from their past.

And yes PS5 sales have continued to fall as well.

The poster I responded to was claiming that Microsoft had done nothing right in gaming since 2010. Would you not say that was "shooting from the hip" moreso than anything I posted?

1. My faith in Sony comes from 5 successive home console generations where they’ve not let me down in terms of longevity, reliability and software support. No other company in gaming history has come close to that.

They’ve also covered their arses by dipping their toe in VR and cloud gaming so that, if those were to take off, they’re already in the market.

2. I don’t really want to see Xbox gone, they’re a familiar part of console history that I’d miss, I’ve even suggested ways they could keep going despite being told it’s not economically viable
 
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m14

Member
1. My faith in Sony comes from 5 successive home console generations where they’ve not let me down in terms of longevity, reliability and software support. No other company in gaming history has come close to that.

They’ve also covered their arses by dipping their toe in VR and cloud gaming so that, if those were to take off, they’re already in the market.

2. I don’t really want to see Xbox gone, they’re a familiar part of console history that I’d miss, I’ve even suggested ways they could keep going despite being told it’s not economically viable
That's fair. And your cousin likely agrees given the prominence of their PS2. :messenger_smiling:
 
They want you to subscribe to gamepass. They don’t care if you buy something on Steam because the real revenue will come from gamepass.
I mean, if people wanted Game Pass on a portable, they could have that right now. I don't think Microsoft coming out with one of their own will do much to move the needle in terms of subscriber numbers. Add to that all the potential headaches and security risks that come with giving users an easy way to execute unvetted third-party code and it really doesn't seem like a winning proposition.

The next Xbox is rumored to dual boot Steam.
Some people were saying that about XBO and XSX as well. Maybe it'll be true this time, but I'll believe it when I see it.
 

RPCGamer

Member
Feel like Xbox banked too much on Game Pass and just stopped making games. Not all of them would have been a hit, but if you created enough titles of various sizes and their own uniqueness, it would have grabbed enough people's attention to look into buying the console. It's definitely what grabbed me with the 360.
 

Kacho

Gold Member
Feel like Xbox banked too much on Game Pass and just stopped making games. Not all of them would have been a hit, but if you created enough titles of various sizes and their own uniqueness, it would have grabbed enough people's attention to look into buying the console. It's definitely what grabbed me with the 360.
I would agree that they banked too much on Game Pass. They lost me as a dedicated customer when they prioritized it. Felt like they were chasing an audience that doesn't play games.

Like, cool, Fallout 4 is on Game Pass. I've owned that for a decade on Xbox and Steam... so what's the draw? A bunch of indies to treat as disposable entertainment? Nah I'm good.
 

RPCGamer

Member
I wish they could compete against Sony healthily.
Consoles are doomed.
Costs and time have made this gen feel weak to me. The focus on graphical fidelity and 100+ hour open world games have just left a void that the indie scene has thankfully filled. With the PS5 Pro, Sony sort of said to me they want to continue on pushing better and better hardware despite studios clearly hitting the financial wall in that direction. I'm not a big fan of Nintendo, but I do think they got it right moving away from focusing on the hardware. Same with Series S.
 

HogIsland

Member
I would agree that they banked too much on Game Pass. They lost me as a dedicated customer when they prioritized it. Felt like they were chasing an audience that doesn't play games.

Like, cool, Fallout 4 is on Game Pass. I've owned that for a decade on Xbox and Steam... so what's the draw? A bunch of indies to treat as disposable entertainment? Nah I'm good.
i cancelled it soon after Baldurs Gate 3 came out. I realized i was gonna be locked into that game for months, so why pay for a subscription i'm not using? my steam backlog is more than big enough, there's no reason to have this other library of games i may or may not want to play. and my steam library will be there when i get to it, i don't have to pay to keep it around.
 

Ebrietas

Member
I wish they could compete against Sony healthily.
Consoles are doomed.
MS has given people no reason to buy their console over the competition. That's why Xbox sales have collapsed and it is entirely their own fault. It's not because of "PS4 digital libraries". Plenty of PS users also bought a Switch because Nintendo makes games that don't release anywhere else.

If consoles are doomed it's because of the majority of software developers dropping the ball. The hardware is more than powerful enough at this point and are easy to develop for, yet games continue to cost more and more and take longer and longer to release. Other than Demons Souls at launch (which was still a remake), there really hasn't been anything released to justify my PS5 purchase. It's basically a PS4 super pro that also plays 4K blu ray for me.
 
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I don't recall anyone saying that.
Well, someone certainly did. I remember arguing about it back in 2012 after Valve launched Big Picture mode and announced that they were working on something console-related. Some people were convinced that this meant that they were secretly collaborating with Microsoft behind the scenes. XBO was revealed not too long afterwards with no mention of a partnership and that Valve project turned out to be the ill-fated Steam Machine, so that died down real quick.
 
The more I think about it, the more I think we're setting ourselves up for disappointment. The fundamental question has to be answered -why are we even making hardware in the first place? Once they go open platform "the cat's out of the bag" and it's not going back in. One can't help but wonder if they will make any last ditch attempt not to have to do this. Maybe, they will make hardware mostly to respect software libraries and die-hard clients with money, while really caring about publishing -but this basically amounts to surrender, and I'm not certain they are willing to go all-in on surrender yet. On the other hand, it's whatever Nadella happens to think.

Yeah, and these are all reasons why them just pushing all of this gaming stuff to Windows would be the last move. They won't do it until they're forced to do it. Which would be either if a final hardware gambit failed, or Windows runs into market problems large enough where they feel they'd need to fully integrate the Xbox experience to Windows to give Windows a big appeal boost.

They'd have to actually at least try with another generation of hardware first though, to get an answer on the former. As for the latter, well that's something to probably be considerate about in the next decade, but they aught to be paying close attention to any inroads Valve or even a company like Tencent, or Epic etc. make in shifting PC gaming away from Windows.

What’s the market for this? About 10-20 million people?

If they can make a profit from that business then they’d be foolish to just throw it down the toilet.

Yep. They would just have to price the hardware where they make substantive profit upfront. And find a way to enable access to alt storefronts without need of native app ports to Xbox, while financially covering potential losses with that through Game Pass tie-in for access on Xbox hardware.

If they did it right they could probably net 20-25 million install base over a 7-8 year period, that's before taking into account any OEM variants. If they get the right OEMs/3P to make worthwhile variants that number could be closer to 35-40 million. Or 50 million if they got SEGA to make variant hardware.

Keeping some timed exclusives for game pass and publishing games everywhere they can. With decent hardware for no loss. (Arm handheld and expensive PC/Console with new Xbox mode).

This is the way.

Xbox is the biggest game publisher in the world, doesn't need to be the biggest HW seller too.

How is MS the biggest game publisher in the world? People keep saying this but don't quantify. Is it by revenue? Net profits? Because in both cases that isn't true; SIE still bests them in revenue even post-ABK and Nintendo easily beats them in net profits. Is it in cash reserves? Microsoft itself may have a big cash reserve but Microsoft Gaming/Xbox doesn't; they're in a deficit.

Is it in having the single-biggest IP in gaming? Epic and Take Two would probably have a laugh at that notion. Is it in having the most amount of owned IP? Believe it or not a company like SEGA probably easily dwarfs Microsoft in that area if going back through their whole history of gaming IP they own. Is it in having the largest amount of "big" hit franchises? Well then that depends on what qualifies as a "big" hit franchise. Even monetarily, that could be open to interpretation. Is it based on review scores? Because that ain't it, either.

I think when people say Xbox is the biggest publisher, they're just going by the price they paid for Zenimax & ABK, and those being the two biggest-costing gaming acquisitions ever. But that doesn't actually mean Xbox/MS Gaming are suddenly the "biggest publisher" in the world; it just means they spent the most to acquire two companies of sizable market caps.

If they actually want to claim that title, they'll have to earn it. And that will take a lot of time and effort; we're talking decades here depending on what metrics you go by.
 
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clarky

Gold Member
Well, someone certainly did. I remember arguing about it back in 2012 after Valve launched Big Picture mode and announced that they were working on something console-related. Some people were convinced that this meant that they were secretly collaborating with Microsoft behind the scenes. XBO was revealed not too long afterwards with no mention of a partnership and that Valve project turned out to be the ill-fated Steam Machine, so that died down real quick.
Must have been you because none of what you say actually happened.
 

BlackTron

Member
Yeah, and these are all reasons why them just pushing all of this gaming stuff to Windows would be the last move. They won't do it until they're forced to do it. Which would be either if a final hardware gambit failed, or Windows runs into market problems large enough where they feel they'd need to fully integrate the Xbox experience to Windows to give Windows a big appeal boost.

They'd have to actually at least try with another generation of hardware first though, to get an answer on the former. As for the latter, well that's something to probably be considerate about in the next decade, but they aught to be paying close attention to any inroads Valve or even a company like Tencent, or Epic etc. make in shifting PC gaming away from Windows.

Despite being flogged for it, this is why I think we shouldn't trust MS to just be full on third party publisher now, and why their supposed partners should keep their guards up for a backstabbing the instant MS perceives the strength to take a shot. In fact, I would be nervous and cherry picking the games I take from Xbox, on the basis those IP will gain a following on my player base only to return the favor by trying to steal them away with future exclusivity.
 

HogIsland

Member
MS has given people no reason to buy their console over the competition. That's why Xbox sales have collapsed and it is entirely their own fault. It's not because of "PS4 digital libraries". Plenty of PS users also bought a Switch because Nintendo makes games that don't release anywhere else.

If consoles are doomed it's because of the majority of software developers dropping the ball. The hardware is more than powerful enough at this point and are easy to develop for, yet games continue to cost more and more and take longer and longer to release. Other than Demons Souls at launch (which was still a remake), there really hasn't been anything released to justify my PS5 purchase. It's basically a PS4 super pro that also plays 4K blu ray for me.
in the past, the first party content's main purpose was to popularize the console. but there is a synergy to it. so if you have strong first-party content, not only with the console but also other platforms like computers, the first-party can be grown with multi-platforms.
 

Orbital2060

Member
I dont believe any of this Xbox is dead thing going round. Theyve clearly stated they are planning more hardware in around 2026.

It sounds like someone coping with the fact that Microsoft closed the ABK deal. Theyve had a tough year for sales all around, yeah. But not enough to abandon their hardware business. In a way, Xbox has finally got what it needed: a bunch of great IPs. But its going to take a while - probably several years - before all of the developers in the XGS organisation find a shape and momentum together. And a few ups and downs along the way. But at some point, I think people are going to look back and say: hey, remember when we thought Xbox was dead? Because look at all these games theyre making, man.
 

Kacho

Gold Member
I dont believe any of this Xbox is dead thing going round. Theyve clearly stated they are planning more hardware in around 2026.

It sounds like someone coping with the fact that Microsoft closed the ABK deal. Theyve had a tough year for sales all around, yeah. But not enough to abandon their hardware business. In a way, Xbox has finally got what it needed: a bunch of great IPs. But its going to take a while - probably several years - before all of the developers in the XGS organisation find a shape and momentum together. And a few ups and downs along the way. But at some point, I think people are going to look back and say: hey, remember when we thought Xbox was dead? Because look at all these games theyre making, man.
5-6 years ago I would have shared your optimism and enthusiasm. I’m out out at this point. They need to make a strong case for Xbox’s existence in the market.
 

HogIsland

Member
I dont believe any of this Xbox is dead thing going round. Theyve clearly stated they are planning more hardware in around 2026.

It sounds like someone coping with the fact that Microsoft closed the ABK deal. Theyve had a tough year for sales all around, yeah. But not enough to abandon their hardware business. In a way, Xbox has finally got what it needed: a bunch of great IPs. But its going to take a while - probably several years - before all of the developers in the XGS organisation find a shape and momentum together. And a few ups and downs along the way. But at some point, I think people are going to look back and say: hey, remember when we thought Xbox was dead? Because look at all these games theyre making, man.
it depends what you mean by "xbox". the gaming division of Microsoft is not going away. the xbox console as a bespoke platform is probably dead because the worldwide audience for it is dwindling. we're already seeing significant games skipping or delaying xbox ports with no moneyhats from playstation. going to Windows-based handhelds and "consoles" makes the most sense and gives them leeway to sell unsubsidized hardware. these could still be branded as Xbox, but the concept is fundamentally different.
 
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Kataploom

Gold Member
This is what happens when you are trend chaser... Sony is also trend chaser but they have a more consistent strategy considering they have an actual fanbase built on top of some specific foundations, and because they decided to test waters and get out of those foundations is that they're also lost these days. I hope MS can find a way out of the cloud, btw, I would hate they get out of gaming completely just because of pursuing a dream that's only gonna be possible in some areas of some first world countries
 

Kacho

Gold Member
5-6 years ago Xbox didnt have ABK or Bethesda. Or Yakuza or Persona or any otter Sega Atlus games, or all of the JRPGs launching same day on Xbox. Things have changed a lot already.
They have made improvements on the Japanese games side but the Xbox platform still misses a bunch of games. It’s like a bunch of microscopic cuts in that regard.

It really looked like they were turning the corner at the end of last gen. The new Fable had me hyped, unfortunately it looks like modern audience slop. Perfect Dark looks good at least. So does the new Gears. That won’t be enough to pull people in though.
 
Nintendo and Valve checked the underside of their shoe to see what they stepped on.

The usual fanboy trolling with nothing to contribute as usual from you.

Your PC growth bubble is over mate, wind your neck in

Luf6zZW.png
 

Amin_Parker

Member
【I want to make a disclaimer before I make my point. I want to be very respectful, humble and honest when I say this about the Xbox brand. I don’t mean any offense or disrespect to the Xbox brand or Microsoft as a company when I say this.】


What Microsoft needs to do is be more like Nintendo. Stop trying to be like Sony by chasing the high end console market because it doesn’t work for Microsoft. What I mean by being more like Nintendo, is that Microsoft needs to be more innovative. What did Nintendo do when their backs were against the wall? they came out with an innovation based around motion controls, known as the Wii. The next time Nintendo found their backs against the wall, they release the Switch, both of those consoles are going down in history in a positive way. when we’re talking about units sold within a particular generation the Wii and the Switch are legends that sits among the Nintendo DS , PS1, PS2 and PS4. My point is that Nintendo isn’t afraid to innovate, even when they fall flat on their face because the courage to innovate lives within Nintendo’s blood. If Microsoft was more innovative and released brand new gameplay concepts by way of hardware or controller input they would be fine. they also need to bring some kid friendly franchises to their 1st party portfolio. The overall image of Xbox is terrible all throughout Asia. The Xbox is more of a military shooter mature audience platform. The perception of Xbox is really terrible. They don’t even have any first party JRPGs. In my humble opinion, The Microsoft Xbox brand is a brand that is suffering far more than any brand that I’ve ever seen in the history of this industry. In my own humble opinion, Xbox is in a worse position from an console brand image standpoint than the Atari Jaguar and Sega Saturn. This is just my opinion though but I do see the Xbox brand as being in a more worse position than the Jaguar and the Saturn. I’m not even trying to be funny or hyperbolic or console warring but I just don’t see anything positive about this brand anymore. No wonder it’s been failing over in Asia for many generations.

This company doesn’t have any first party franchises that resembles the look of Japanese animation. Nothing that resembles dragon quest or Dragon Ball Z, or Naruto, Microsoft don’t have any franchises that resembles the legend of Zelda or Pokémon. I don’t see any colorful franchises other than Minecraft. And I’m only talking from a first party standpoint. They need to go all in on handhelds. They need to meet Nintendo face-to-face and challenged them , Microsoft needs to stop trying to challenge Sony in the high end Super Duper powerful graphics top end console market. Most gamers in that market just don’t trust Microsoft Xbox . I also think that they don’t really stand a chance against Nintendo, but Microsoft have to do something Because what their doing isn’t working.
 
Despite being flogged for it, this is why I think we shouldn't trust MS to just be full on third party publisher now, and why their supposed partners should keep their guards up for a backstabbing the instant MS perceives the strength to take a shot. In fact, I would be nervous and cherry picking the games I take from Xbox, on the basis those IP will gain a following on my player base only to return the favor by trying to steal them away with future exclusivity.

Yep, this was exactly one of the ?s I had about this whole 3P venture of theirs and SIE in particular being gung-ho to take it on. Now Nintendo to a large extent I can understand, because they aren't reliant on 3P all that much and MS can't really compete directly against them even if they wanted to honestly try. Not these days, anyway. I mean they did compete directly with them during 6th gen but only edged out GC by 4 million. Meanwhile PS2 obliterated both in sales and PS2 did more harm to GC than Xbox ever did IMHO (and was the reason Nintendo shifted with the Wii).

But Sony? Dunno, sometimes it feels like they're just letting Xbox "exist" thinking they're just going to wither away. Well maybe that would work if Xbox wasn't owned by Microsoft. The scary thing about MS, IMO, is they have the bandwidth and resources to weather multiple generations of losses in gaming due to the sheer profits their other divisions bring in. That's mainly why Phil was able to get ABK and even Zenimax; that wasn't Xbox's money, Xbox has no money. It was Microsoft's. Sony can't play that same type of game with PlayStation, they simply can't.

I think SIE's focus on pushing profit margins is maybe the main reason they are letting Xbox set up shop on PlayStation with these games. And it's that plus feeling like they've "practically won" why SIE are doing this major push for PC, or even things like the console pricing more recently. Maybe they felt they could take a gambit on GAAS due to what they perceived to be a dead Xbox and figured their core don't have an alternative aside from PC & Nintendo so, why not take that gambit? But it all would also mean SIE still don't view PC (or specifically, platforms like Steam and I'd even say to an extent EGS due to Fortnite, which is in itself becoming a platform) as competition.

That mentality is going to be what knocks PlayStation down a peg or two in a few years, IMO, especially if SIE start moving to Day 1 PC releases for the big titles (and not even in ways where it maybe would make some sense like region-locking Steam releases to China). Steam might not be Microsoft's platform, but Windows is their OS, and the OS that vast majority access Steam through is Windows. Pieces like that are basically right there for Microsoft to form a solution (of sorts) to their hardware woes with, the question is if they pounce on it. SIE enabling PC storefronts like Steam with their catalog of ports over the past 4 years just creates some nice cherries on top for Microsoft if they do make "that" move.

And say Microsoft do that, they bring Windows functionality to Xbox (through Xbox OS) for native compatibility of whitelisted Windows apps and alternative gaming storefronts...how does Sony block access of their games on that type of Xbox? If it's a hybrid console/PC, but the business model is closer to PC than console, what would Sony be able to use in court to block their Steam games being accessible on that Xbox versus say an Asus ROG Ally? That's the conundrum I feel they might have placed themselves in, but at the same time they shouldn't have moved so quickly with this PC initiative the way they did in the first place. It should've been significantly more measured, structured, and organized. And perhaps, if they really wanted to pursue it no matter what, they should've gotten their own storefront on PC first (Windows & Linux) and then stuck to hosting their games there exclusively, only considering options like Steam as a last resort.

I mean yeah, with them doing their own PC storefront and doing the games there they'd still create a bit of a pickle in the case Microsoft move the way they're likely to move with their next generation of hardware, but at least in that case SIE'd retain more vertical integration of their own pipeline. Say MS do in fact leverage Game Pass as a gateway access point to alternative storefronts (I think this is highly likely to happen)...SIE could just...not be one of those storefronts. Problem solved. They can't do that the way they're doing things right now, though. Even if MS then had another model where you pay even more upfront for the hardware but access alternative storefronts like normal...problem still solved for SIE because that's effectively a PC gaming device MS are selling and any Xbox branding is just a minor consequence.

There's another aspect to all of this too such as Microsoft potentially making a switch to Xbox more as a PC for next gen, but before MS actually commit to fully Day 1 support of their games on other consoles like PlayStation. Then that creates a situation like you've suggested where they've now built up new customer bases on PS & Nintendo hardware (I've been leaving Nintendo out of this mostly because they wouldn't be affected by this shift of Xbox anywhere near what PlayStation would, IMO), but then leverages what the new Xbox hardware brings to lure console/PC gamers or console-only gamers looking to jump to PC, to jump towards an Xbox since it'll "mostly" be a PC in many aspects of the experience (but not 1:1 like a PC, for example only running whitelisted apps from MS's store vs. what you'd do on Windows itself).

That could have stronger pull than SIE might've considered, realization of that potential only likely tempered by MS's end on combination of pricing for such devices and target/realistic volume of production for said devices. In both cases, pricing would probably be too high and volume too low to make something that'd truly compete with PlayStation in terms of install base & market share, even if that is no longer necessarily the point on MS's end. So no matter how high or even how low PlayStation's install base floor goes, I don't think Microsoft's initiative in changing the Xbox hardware business model would get them in a competitive range of that in the span of a single generation. There's just been too much depletion of brand goodwill on Xbox's part to accomplish that.

But I do think a shift of the model from where it currently is (wholly steeped in the traditional console business model) to what it seems like they're leaning towards doing, would do well to at least start restoring brand faith in the hardware and get install base numbers on the upswing again, it just depends on how much effort MS put into things. If it's an extremely poor effort, they'll maybe get some decent profits off hardware but'll probably tap out at like 10-15 million lifetime in hardware sales over a generation. If they put some real effort into it, they might be able to net 20-25 million lifetime, if they're the only one making the hardware. If it's that and licensing with OEMs to make variants, it could be closer to 35-40 million lifetime. If one of those variants happened to be from, say, SEGA, they could maybe hit between 50-55 million, maybe even 60 million.

The point is with the right approach they'd be able to take hardware on the upswing again while no longer losing money on the hardware and in fact having good profit margins on the hardware being sold, even if in fact it might come from multiple manufacturers with different variants that add non-essential features but are all built around a common baseline spec. Would also assume those numbers to come from devices of varying form factors too, like NUC-style mini systems, laptop-like devices, tablets, PC portables & hybrids etc.

And that looks significantly better for them vs doing another take on the Series S/X approach and keep things very traditional. In which case, they'd tap out at 20-30 million lifetime (possibly trending to the lower end) but with much narrower profits on hardware. It does assume they keep the same multiplatform strategy they have ATM; maybe ridding of that and even stopping the Day 1 PC stuff would help bolster that closer to 40-45 million lifetime but it'd require a massive gamble on Microsoft's part and I don't think they want to take any such gamble when it comes to the software. They'd rather a scenario where they can still do Day 1 on PC and ease into more full-line 3P support for PS & Nintendo (even if that doesn't necessarily translate to Day 1 for all games), vs. cutting off Sony, Nintendo, Steam and their own Windows Store to give Xbox the "good college try" once more.

Because they've done that multiple times now, and it's been failing.
 

awwr999999

Neo Member
Xbox has been in a mess since Peter Moore left (I still believe due to the RROD catastrophe) and Don Mattrick took the reins.

They coasted through the Xbox One generation due to the goodwill from the 360 days, but that goodwill is gone now.

They’re the Ubisoft of platform holders.
Xbox was created by MS to stop Sony. In real terms the Xbox is and has always been the "Anticonsole" - its purpose has always been to end PlayStation.
Prior to giving Xbox a blank check, Gates described it as "A fucking insult to everything that I've ever done at Microsoft.".
There never was any goodwill on their part and at its core it's always been an evil console made by the guy who's the reason most of the world's PCs run a subpar OS with a subpar UI/UX.
Anyone who looks into it will appreciate that Gates' end goal has always been about MS and not about Xbox.
 

bundylove

Member
【I want to make a disclaimer before I make my point. I want to be very respectful, humble and honest when I say this about the Xbox brand. I don’t mean any offense or disrespect to the Xbox brand or Microsoft as a company when I say this.】


What Microsoft needs to do is be more like Nintendo. Stop trying to be like Sony by chasing the high end console market because it doesn’t work for Microsoft. What I mean by being more like Nintendo, is that Microsoft needs to be more innovative. What did Nintendo do when their backs were against the wall? they came out with an innovation based around motion controls, known as the Wii. The next time Nintendo found their backs against the wall, they release the Switch, both of those consoles are going down in history in a positive way. when we’re talking about units sold within a particular generation the Wii and the Switch are legends that sits among the Nintendo DS , PS1, PS2 and PS4. My point is that Nintendo isn’t afraid to innovate, even when they fall flat on their face because the courage to innovate lives within Nintendo’s blood. If Microsoft was more innovative and released brand new gameplay concepts by way of hardware or controller input they would be fine. they also need to bring some kid friendly franchises to their 1st party portfolio. The overall image of Xbox is terrible all throughout Asia. The Xbox is more of a military shooter mature audience platform. The perception of Xbox is really terrible. They don’t even have any first party JRPGs. In my humble opinion, The Microsoft Xbox brand is a brand that is suffering far more than any brand that I’ve ever seen in the history of this industry. In my own humble opinion, Xbox is in a worse position from an console brand image standpoint than the Atari Jaguar and Sega Saturn. This is just my opinion though but I do see the Xbox brand as being in a more worse position than the Jaguar and the Saturn. I’m not even trying to be funny or hyperbolic or console warring but I just don’t see anything positive about this brand anymore. No wonder it’s been failing over in Asia for many generations.

This company doesn’t have any first party franchises that resembles the look of Japanese animation. Nothing that resembles dragon quest or Dragon Ball Z, or Naruto, Microsoft don’t have any franchises that resembles the legend of Zelda or Pokémon. I don’t see any colorful franchises other than Minecraft. And I’m only talking from a first party standpoint. They need to go all in on handhelds. They need to meet Nintendo face-to-face and challenged them , Microsoft needs to stop trying to challenge Sony in the high end Super Duper powerful graphics top end console market. Most gamers in that market just don’t trust Microsoft Xbox . I also think that they don’t really stand a chance against Nintendo, but Microsoft have to do something Because what their doing isn’t working.
Tired of hearing/reading nintendo is innovative.

Nintendo copies its own past all the time just most people dont know much about nintendo other than consoles.

Here is one example of a dual screen game way before nintendo came out with the ds.
I owned this and many others .
U1OH3mK.jpeg
 

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
What I mean by being more like Nintendo, is that Microsoft needs to be more innovative.

They do, but it's very unclear based on past history if they can even do that. Kinect was arguably innovative, but you could also say they just cashed in on the Wii's waggle hype and tried to make it different. And failed at it.
 

m14

Member
Xbox was created by MS to stop Sony. In real terms the Xbox is and has always been the "Anticonsole" - its purpose has always been to end PlayStation.
Prior to giving Xbox a blank check, Gates described it as "A fucking insult to everything that I've ever done at Microsoft.".
There never was any goodwill on their part and at its core it's always been an evil console made by the guy who's the reason most of the world's PCs run a subpar OS with a subpar UI/UX.
Anyone who looks into it will appreciate that Gates' end goal has always been about MS and not about Xbox.
Did you ever hear Sony's reasons for entering the video game industry? :pie_thinking:
 

clarky

Gold Member
Tired of hearing/reading nintendo is innovative.

Nintendo copies its own past all the time just most people dont know much about nintendo other than consoles.

Here is one example of a dual screen game way before nintendo came out with the ds.
I owned this and many others .
U1OH3mK.jpeg
They've lead the handheld market for decades you fool.

Most of the hardware and software they release pushes our medium forward.
 

rm082e

Member
5-6 years ago Xbox didnt have ABK or Bethesda. Or Yakuza or Persona or any otter Sega Atlus games, or all of the JRPGs launching same day on Xbox. Things have changed a lot already.

None of those are exclusives, therefore they do not drive new customers to Xbox. Being multi-platform, they only cater to the existing customers who've already bought an Xbox, and that group is consistently shrinking.

The core of Nintendo's success has been very successful first party exclusive games. The core of PlayStation's success has been very successful first party exclusive games. Xbox has not had very successful first party exclusive games for the last 10+ years. Correspondingly, the XO generation sold 2/3 of the 360, and the Series generation will be lucky to sell 2/3 of the XO generation.

Just having good multi-platform games and a reliable console is not enough to compete in the current market. They have to have a steady flow of highly rated and exciting exclusive games to have a successful console. Given the last ten years, there's no reason to think that's in their future. In fact, there's every reason to think Xbox as a brand will continue to move towards the third party publisher business model, and the Xbox hardware will become a side business that MS no longer subsidizes.
 
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