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[Banjo64]

Units sold is such as overrated retarded metric. In profit the ps2 did worse than the ps1 even.

In Profit and Revenue the PS4 is many many many times more successful than the PS2.

profit and revenue is an overrated retarded metric if you’re not taking in to account inflation, overall size of the market, people’s average disposable income etc.

‘The PS5 is going to be more profitable compared to all of these consoles that launched 15-25 years ago’

No shit. You’ve got 50m people paying to access their own internet connection.

 

[DenchDeckard]

You said PS5 didn't have any true PS5 games, but the fact is nobody cares if something is true next gen or not.

The best looking game on the system is still a cross-gen title, beating out MANY next-gen only titles. What's selling systems are the games.

Nobody cares that Breath of the Wild was cross-gen either. It sold games. I don't know why the goalpost continually shifts for Sony titles. Like they have plenty of games but none of them count because they're not this or that ("true next gen" or "true first party"), despite those things being perfectly acceptable on other platforms.

I never said they didn't have true ps5 games.

I said I would like them to communicate and now show some true ps5 games. It's 4 and a half years into a generation and they released one game last year and nothing is slated for 2024 or even 2025 right now.

They are beyond lucky that their competition is a limping dying dog as this kind of display from a market leader is embarrassing. That's why I advise everyone to go pc now and the market is listening.

The best games and the best experiences are on pc. Hardware cost doesn't matter anymore. People were spending north of 1000 dollars on a ps5. They spend 1200 dollars on every new phone.

Make good hardware and millions will buy it. PC is growing and the writing is on the wall because there's too many games, sony are releasing too few to make people care if they have to wait a year or two. And the games they have released have all been sequels that aren't as good as the originals imo. I wouldn't ever want to touch Horizon forbidden west no matter how good it looks. I don't play graphics, like so many seem to do. Not for more than a few hours anyway. Probably 10 to 15 tops.

Anyway. All your post takes away from my points. Do you want to avatar bet that the ps5 doesn't sell as many as the ps4? And that's with xbox performing less than xbox one gen...so ultimately, high end consoles are in decline.

 

[The artful mincer]

profit and revenue is an overrated retarded metric if you’re not taking in to account inflation, overall size of the market, people’s average disposable income etc.

Did you not see the part where the ps2 generated less profit than ps1....

‘The PS5 is going to be more profitable compared to all of these consoles that launched 15-25 years ago’

No shit. You’ve got 50m people paying to access their own internet connection.

So if we can't use profit and revenue what can we use?

 

[Banjo64]

Did you not see the part where the ps2 generated less profit than ps1....

So if we can't use profit and revenue what can we use?

Thoughts and feelings

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

I never said they didn't have true ps5 games.

I said I would like them to communicate and now show some true ps5 games. It's 4 and a half years into a generation and they released one game last year and nothing is slated for 2024 or even 2025 right now.

They are beyond lucky that their competition is a limping dying dog as this kind of display from a market leader is embarrassing. That's why I advise everyone to go pc now and the market is listening.

The best games and the best experiences are on pc. Hardware cost doesn't matter anymore. People were spending north of 1000 dollars on a ps5. They spend 1200 dollars on every new phone.

Make good hardware and millions will buy it. PC is growing and the writing is on the wall because there's too many games, sony are releasing too few to make people care if they have to wait a year or two. And the games they have released have all been sequels that aren't as good as the originals imo. I wouldn't ever want to touch Horizon forbidden west no matter how good it looks. I don't play graphics, like so many seem to do. Not for more than a few hours anyway. Probably 10 to 15 tops.

Anyway. All your post takes away from my points. Do you want to avatar bet that the ps5 doesn't sell as many as the ps4? And that's with xbox performing less than xbox one gen...so ultimately, high end consoles are in decline.

In 2024 they have at least 2 games that Sony is publishing. Either out already or about to be released. Helldivers and Stellar Blade. At least one of those has gone on to not just be very successful, but will likely end up winning GOTY this year.

And people don't spend $1000+ on a new phone, well at least not most people. They spend like $30-$50/month on a $1000+ phone. There is a difference. And you have to be smoking something to think there is ever a time that cost doesn't matter.

And while your post was not directed at me, I would be willing to take that bet, how about we put a hard stop on launch to launch? At the time of the PS5 release, the PS4 was at 113.79M. So 113.79 is the number to beat?

 

[drganon]

I never said they didn't have true ps5 games.

I said I would like them to communicate and now show some true ps5 games. It's 4 and a half years into a generation and they released one game last year and nothing is slated for 2024 or even 2025 right now.

They are beyond lucky that their competition is a limping dying dog as this kind of display from a market leader is embarrassing. That's why I advise everyone to go pc now and the market is listening.

The best games and the best experiences are on pc. Hardware cost doesn't matter anymore. People were spending north of 1000 dollars on a ps5. They spend 1200 dollars on every new phone.

Make good hardware and millions will buy it. PC is growing and the writing is on the wall because there's too many games, sony are releasing too few to make people care if they have to wait a year or two. And the games they have released have all been sequels that aren't as good as the originals imo. I wouldn't ever want to touch Horizon forbidden west no matter how good it looks. I don't play graphics, like so many seem to do. Not for more than a few hours anyway. Probably 10 to 15 tops.

Anyway. All your post takes away from my points. Do you want to avatar bet that the ps5 doesn't sell as many as the ps4? And that's with xbox performing less than xbox one gen...so ultimately, high end consoles are in decline.

Your five xboxs must be crying since you've suddenly become a pcmr evangelist.

 

[DenchDeckard]

In 2024 they have at least 2 games that Sony is publishing. Either out already or about to be released. Helldivers and Stellar Blade. At least one of those has gone on to not just be very successful, but will likely end up winning GOTY this year.

And people don't spend $1000+ on a new phone, well at least not most people. They spend like $30-$50/month on a $1000+ phone. There is a difference. And you have to be smoking something to think there is ever a time that cost doesn't matter.

And while your post was not directed at me, I would be willing to take that bet, how about we put a hard stop on launch to launch? At the time of the PS5 release, the PS4 was at 113.79M. So 113.79 is the number to beat?

Let's do it! Will be fun. What's the avatar bet? How many years had the PS4 been out when the ps5 launched? Whatever those years are we should do imo. So 8 vs 8 years or whatever the number is.

Sound good?

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

Let's do it! Will be fun. What's the avatar bet? How many years had the PS4 been out when the ps5 launched? Whatever those years are we should do imo. So 8 vs 8 years or whatever the number is.

Sound good?

It would be 7 years. But I figure it would be better to do launch to launch. Basically, look at the time between PS4 to PS5 launch vs time between PS5 to PS6 launch. Basically, a time that covers just one console being on the market.

And figured this was better to cover discrepancies like price differences and COVID.

How does 3 months sound? and I say we keep our avatars, but add some text to it or over them, whatever that text says... will be up to the winner. I think I would rather defile your avatar than have you change it completely

 

[Woopah]

Yeah I can kind of agree with that. The devs are what matters at the end of the day.

What I personally want is just more exclusive content from Sony.

And what I’m getting at is that saying that Sony releasing Rise of the Ronin as a first party game gives more credit to Sony than they deserve and also unfairly discredits Koei Tecmo and Team Ninja, who is actually behind the game - not Sony.

I don't think classing something as first party means you can't give credit where it is due.

For example, how would you classify Smash Bros. Ultimate, Pikmin 4, Fire Emblem Warriors and Spiderman PS4 (when it first came out)?

Oh, I don't think so, since those conversations are mostly about the publisher output. But when it comes to actually discussing the game, well, Team Ninja is always brought up.
Also, you could arguably say the same about their internally-developed games; Sony will get most of the praise for, as an example, Uncharted 4, but don't forget that the actual people behind it are those from Naughty Dog.

Until Dawn, and potentially Astro Bot and a Gravity Rush 2 remaster. Also, MLB The Show, lol.
I'm fairly optimistic for Astro Bot targeting this year; I believe had Sony not have any new SP game for H2, they would have delayed Stellar Blade even further since we were getting Rise of the Ronin just one month earlier, anyway.

Yes I think Astrobot is the most likely new game for H2.

And then hopefully Ghost of Tsushima 2 in the next fiscal year.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I never said they didn't have true ps5 games.

I said I would like them to communicate and now show some true ps5 games. It's 4 and a half years into a generation and they released one game last year and nothing is slated for 2024 or even 2025 right now.

They are beyond lucky that their competition is a limping dying dog as this kind of display from a market leader is embarrassing. That's why I advise everyone to go pc now and the market is listening.

The best games and the best experiences are on pc. Hardware cost doesn't matter anymore. People were spending north of 1000 dollars on a ps5. They spend 1200 dollars on every new phone.

Make good hardware and millions will buy it. PC is growing and the writing is on the wall because there's too many games, sony are releasing too few to make people care if they have to wait a year or two. And the games they have released have all been sequels that aren't as good as the originals imo. I wouldn't ever want to touch Horizon forbidden west no matter how good it looks. I don't play graphics, like so many seem to do. Not for more than a few hours anyway. Probably 10 to 15 tops.

Anyway. All your post takes away from my points. Do you want to avatar bet that the ps5 doesn't sell as many as the ps4? And that's with xbox performing less than xbox one gen...so ultimately, high end consoles are in decline.

More goalpost shifting.

Games now don’t count if they come to PC.

Another wildly bad take from Dench.

Sony has earned their success with PS5, making an affordable, powerful, and innovative box that also happens to play all the great wealth of first, third, and second party content day 1. In terms of first party releases, it’s a far brisker pace than any PS console in history

 

[MasterCornholio]

More goalpost shifting.

Games now don’t count if they come to PC.

Another wildly bad take from Dench.

Sony has earned their success with PS5, making an affordable, powerful, and innovative box that also happens to play all the great wealth of first, third, and second party content day 1. In terms of first party releases, it’s a far brisker pace than any PS console in history

Yeah I agree that's a retarded take. Any game that comes to the system counts. Not everyone games on PC and if a game they want is in console then there's nothing wrong with them playing it there. I'm just tired of people acting dumb when they can't understand the fact that people buy consoles to play games regardless of those titles being available on PC.

 

[Robb]

For example, how would you classify Smash Bros. Ultimate, Pikmin 4, Fire Emblem Warriors and Spiderman PS4 (when it first came out)?

Spontaneously I’d class them all as first party, but I’m probably being inconsistent at this point.

 

[danklord]

Yeah? Show me the engagement numbers then.

 

[DenchDeckard]

More goalpost shifting.

Games now don’t count if they come to PC.

Another wildly bad take from Dench.

Sony has earned their success with PS5, making an affordable, powerful, and innovative box that also happens to play all the great wealth of first, third, and second party content day 1. In terms of first party releases, it’s a far brisker pace than any PS console in history

I didn't shift any goal posts. Wanna take a bet or not?

 

[DenchDeckard]

It would be 7 years. But I figure it would be better to do launch to launch. Basically, look at the time between PS4 to PS5 launch vs time between PS5 to PS6 launch. Basically, a time that covers just one console being on the market.

And figured this was better to cover discrepancies like price differences and COVID.

How does 3 months sound? and I say we keep our avatars, but add some text to it or over them, whatever that text says... will be up to the winner. I think I would rather defile your avatar than have you change it completely

Sounds like a good plan to me on the 3 month bet. I think the issue with launch to launch is we don't know how long this generation will be. What happens if the ps5 gen is like 9 years long? That wouldn't be fair. You make a valid point about covid, it was both a blessing and a curse. Yes there were constraints but there was also unparalleled demand. There's no way we can work around that I don't think? How do we make it fair?

But I'm open to suggestions, it will be fun.

 

[Deerock71]

Jim's been taking lessons from Phil, I see. It's barely keeping pace with the PS4, which if I recall correctly is still getting handily trounced by the Switch.

 

[Skifi28]

Hardware cost doesn't matter anymore.

Why wasn't I informed earlier? I would have bought a much beefier GPU.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I didn't shift any goal posts. Wanna take a bet or not?

No, because that would take another 10 years or more to confirm who was right.

Either way, PS5 is tracking ahead of PS4,

Lack of cost reductions will hurt potential ps5 sales more than a falsely believed lack of software (there is none)

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Jim's been taking lessons from Phil, I see. It's barely keeping pace with the PS4, which if I recall correctly is still getting handily trounced by the Switch.

What is? No PS5 is handily outselling Switch

 

[KaiserBecks]

Yeah I agree that's a retarded take. Any game that comes to the system counts. Not everyone games on PC and if a game they want is in console then there's nothing wrong with them playing it there. I'm just tired of people acting dumb when they can't understand the fact that people buy consoles to play games regardless of those titles being available on PC.

When MS started bringing their games to PC Day 1, everyone suddenly had a PC and Xbox had no games. It's weird how the times have changed.

What is? No PS5 is handily outselling Switch

It is now, but it has a lot of catching up to do.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

It is now, but it has a lot of catching up to do.

There’s no “catching up to do” required they are not really in competition with each other and have a different lifecycle schedule.

Does switch need to catch up to ps2?

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

When MS started bringing their games to PC Day 1, everyone suddenly had a PC and Xbox had no games. It's weird how the times have changed.

Xbox had no games on PC or Xbox that were of significant importance. If they did throughout the last two generations they would not be in their current situation

 

[KaiserBecks]

There’s no “catching up to do” required they are not really in competition with each other and have a different lifecycle schedule.

If they're not competing what's the point in claiming PS5 is outselling it?

Does switch need to catch up to ps2?

I don't know if it needs to but it definitely is. Switch is on track to become the most succesful console of all time.

Xbox had no games on PC or Xbox that were of significant importance. If they did throughout the last two generations they would not be in their current situation

Not the point. MS released games on PC simultaneously and people called them out.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

If they're not competing what's the point in claiming PS5 is outselling it?

To correct the poster I was replying to

I don't know if it needs to but it definitely is. Switch is on track to become the most succesful console of all time.

Handheld of all time

Not the point. MS released games on PC simultaneously and people called them out.

People were calling them out due to lack of quality and timely releases

I didn’t see a big backlash by going to pc

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Xbox had no games on PC or Xbox that were of significant importance. If they did throughout the last two generations they would not be in their current situation

Why do people pretend like Microsoft's games were massive hits on PC? And that putting PC games is what hurt them? When is the last time Microsoft had a hit on its hands even the size of Ghost of Tsushima?

There is absolutely no evidence of that, but people are desperate to SonyToo that theory.

Xbox sales have been on a steady decline and only sold as much as it did because PS5 was difficult to find for so long. PS5 will continue to sell, especially with the Pro and any discounting. When GTA6 comes out, people will buy a PS5 to play it, not an Xbox. Retailers might have dropped the Xbox by the time this game comes out.

 

[MasterCornholio]

When MS started bringing their games to PC Day 1, everyone suddenly had a PC and Xbox had no games. It's weird how the times have changed.

Nah that's also stupid. Biggest problem is when you bring games to competing platforms.

 

[KaiserBecks]

Handheld of all time

Oh boy it hurts dont it.

Nah that's also stupid. Biggest problem is when you bring games to competing platforms.

Yeah at this point they should stop dancing around and call it what it is.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Oh boy it hurts dont it.



Yeah at this point they should stop dancing around and call it what it is.

Yep it isn't a big deal when you bring them to PC. But bringing them to other competing systems is another story.

 

[RCU005]

/Not if they keep on releasing games like Helldivers 2.

Sony’s actually trying to change the narrative around GaaS, instead of running from it.

Let's say the 10 GaaS games that are in development at Sony are all successful and huge hits. (Well, actually fewer since there have been cancelations)

Do people really want a PlayStation that becomes a GaaS machine? Wouldn't that transform PlayStation into mobile?

If that happened, for me at least (and the majority of the people, I believe) would quit PlayStation. All the success it would bring with GaaS games would be a completely different demographic, with very few exceptions of people that stayed. (Like how you go back to your high school 15 years later and it's something else entirely).

Like I said, next generation is going to be very interesting. The big three are in huge crossroads.
-Sony with the (hugely disappointing for me) change to GaaS.
-Nintendo expecting to become as successful as Switch with the new console (because of course they don't want another Wii U).
-Xbox transforming into a service model or third party.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

PS5 success is riding the success of the PS4. This is why it is being successful. Just you wait until the PS6 and their focus on GaaS to materialize, and will be back to the PS3 days.

Jim Ryan has been the worst CEO PlayStation has had, and Hermen Hulst has been the worst PS Studios head it has ever had.

Next generation is going to be trash (but interesting).
- Will Xbox launch another console?
- There is no way the PS6 is going to be successful after this trash of generation and the focus on GaaS.
- Nintendo is a wild card, and hopefully they reveal a new console that is a good as the Switch and it doesn't lose momentum. But if it does? What will next gen have?

lmao! Helldivers 2 is a huge success. Gran Turismo 7 is a huge return to form for the franchise, MLB is a huge yearly title PS studios make. Their first live service games are huge hits dude. Where have you been?

PS has never been in such a great state.

 

[Roronoa Zoro]

He says successful, not units sold.

The PS5, it's more expensive games and subscription service is bringing in more money than the PS2.

I think Ps4 made a lot more profit than PS2 already so that would be the one to beat

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Do people really want a PlayStation that becomes a GaaS machine

only men in boxes

 

[consoul]

"across multiple vectors" means nothing.

It's unspecified so it means whatever he wants. Most successful console Jim oversaw last FY? Check.

 

[RCU005]

lmao! Helldivers 2 is a huge success. Gran Turismo 7 is a huge return to form for the franchise, MLB is a huge yearly title PS studios make. Their first live service games are huge hits dude. Where have you been?

PS has never been in such a great state.

Where have YOU been? Sony couldn't even release a live service game of The Last of Us, a game that has amazing gameplay.
People don't want live service games anymore. The market is oversaturated with them. Even kids, it's not like they'll be able to ask for money for many games at a time.

Why do you think Sony has been dead silent this gen? They put the majority of the budget into GaaS and it hasn't worked out for them. They have cancelled several games that were initially announced for FY2025. They have noticed the reception of many games, and have noticed that they are in a bad place right now.

Why do you think Jim Ryan left? His bet into Live Service is not working. Many people bought the PS5 to continue playing amazing games, which haven't been happening this gen. They are in a tough position for the future.

But then again, as I stated above. If all of their live service games were successful, that would suck for the brand. Having PS becoming a company like EA or WB would suck.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

Where have YOU been? Sony couldn't even release a live service game of The Last of Us, a game that has amazing gameplay.
People don't want live service games anymore. The market is oversaturated with them. Even kids, it's not like they'll be able to ask for money for many games at a time.

Why do you think Sony has been dead silent this gen? They put the majority of the budget into GaaS and it hasn't worked out for them. They have cancelled several games that were initially announced for FY2025. They have noticed the reception of many games, and have noticed that they are in a bad place right now.

Why do you think Jim Ryan left? His bet into Live Service is not working. Many people bought the PS5 to continue playing amazing games, which haven't been happening this gen. They are in a tough position for the future.

But then again, as I stated above. If all of their live service games were successful, that would suck for the brand. Having PS becoming a company like EA or WB would suck.

Your entire post is a collection of assumptions with not a single source to back them out.

Naughty Dog was the one that decided to not make that TLoU title not Sony.

Jim had god knows how many goodbye parties at multiple PS offices. The man left in the best possible terms. He left when his career was on top and it’s obvious.

Sony has been “dead silent” but have been releasing more first party games than during the ps4 gen at this point. They only had the launch games, Bloodborne and Uncharted 4 at this point. How was it better?

This year among in-house games and exclusive 3rd party stuff they got Helldivers 2, TLOU2 remastered, FFVII Rebirth, Rise of the Ronin, Stellar Blade and that’s only until April. But sure…”dead silent” lmao

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Do people really want a PlayStation that becomes a GaaS machine? Wouldn't that transform PlayStation into mobile?

If that happened, for me at least (and the majority of the people, I believe) would quit PlayStation.

People have to come to grips with the possibility/likelihood that this market becomes 90% GAAS in a few short years.

Big publishers focusing on the 10% will be correctly labeled idiots when that happens.

 

[ergem]

People have to come to grips with the possibility/likelihood that this market becomes 90% GAAS in a few short years.

Big publishers focusing on the 10% will be correctly labeled idiots when that happens.

I just hope they wouldn’t fall into the mistake of converting their current first party devs specializing in established non-GaaS IPs into GaaS factories.

If Sony wants GaaS, they should expand, hire, and buy dev teams specializing in GaaS.

 

[crackajack]

People have to come to grips with the possibility/likelihood that this market becomes 90% GAAS in a few short years.

Big publishers focusing on the 10% will be correctly labeled idiots when that happens.

I am not really against GaaS, it's anyway just relabeled addons + mtx package. The very similar label episodes did not work out, but seasons seem to catch on. At least with the successfull games. But creativity might be forced into way too tight, risk free corridors with 5+ years of content plans. Writers barely manage to write stories that work for 10h games. GaaS will have at best some nice ministories attached to them, or some convoluted mess that makes practically no sense, but mostly pure gameplay. Which isn't bad for what gaming is supposed to be for many. But story driven games I like can hardly be expected to be in a GaaS format. We only have a very limited supply of GRR Martin level of writers that can juggle dozens of characters and plot twist spanning over story years. I also might expect the GaaS market moves more and more to mobile since the visuals are not that important for people that can play one and the same game with constant skin changes and new maps that don't really change anything else but location. Switch was already good enough for many, Switch2 and other handhelds certainly will be even more so and with touch controls working sorta well too, it is good enough for many on all other mobile devices as well. Will be interesting if consoles will not have to concentrate on the non GaaS stuff more once mobile runs away with those people loving to hang in those endless repetitive loops, possibly also in emerging markets that never had much of a console tradition and just start playing on their phones as their only platform.

 

[Woopah]

Spontaneously I’d class them all as first party, but I’m probably being inconsistent at this point.

This is why I think it makes most sense to class something as first party by who the publisher is.

 

[Robb]

This is why I think it makes most sense to class something as first party by who the publisher is.

To me it makes more sense to just go with the IP owner and/or the game being developed by a first party developer. But people on here seem to consider Bayonetta to be a first party Nintendo game, so I guess I’m in the minority.

Publishing makes little sense to me as games can have different publishers in different regions. Which would imply the same game can be a first party game in one region, and not in another.

I mean, if TLoU 3 was allowed by Sony to be published by SEGA, is it then not a first party game anymore?

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

I just hope they wouldn’t fall into the mistake of converting their current first party devs specializing in established non-GaaS IPs into GaaS factories.

If Sony wants GaaS, they should expand, hire, and buy dev teams specializing in GaaS.

This is a limiting mindset.

They should go with any and all game developers that want to do GAAS and have the capability of delivering on their vision.

Writers barely manage to write stories that work for 10h games. GaaS will have at best some nice ministories attached to them, or some convoluted mess that makes practically no sense, but mostly pure gameplay.

Judas will be interesting to watch because I can't see a narrative focused GAAS game ever catching on. Judas is supposed to be highly relayable so it could open up a new avenue recurring revenue.

That said, I don't think writers worth a darn ever seek out big teams / projects. They have to compromise too much the bigger the game gets.

 

[AncientOrigin]

He is old and crazy. It will have a hard time to touch 100mi

Nonsense!!! It will surpass the PS4

 

[Woopah]

To me it makes more sense to just go with the IP owner and/or the game being developed by a first party developer. But people on here seem to consider Bayonetta to be a first party Nintendo game, so I guess I’m in the minority.

Publishing makes little sense to me as games can have different publishers in different regions. Which would imply the same game can be a first party game in one region, and not in another.

It's not just people on here, Nintendo themselves consider Bayonetta 3 a first party game and its sales are counted as first party sales.

Same for Astral Chain, and at launch the IP ownership was split 50/50 with Platinum. Nintendo considers Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3 as first party and Sony considers Spiderman 2 first party, but those IP are owned by Marvel.

As for games being classed differently in different regions, that is true. Sales of Hyrule Warriors in the West are counted as first party, while in Japan they are counted as third party. It's all about the relationship between the publisher and the platform holder.

I mean, if TLoU 3 was allowed by Sony to be published by SEGA, is it then not a first party game anymore?

Correct. Just like how Mario vs. Rabbids is not first party, or MLB The Show is not first party on Xbox and Switch.

 

[Robb]

Correct. Just like how Mario vs. Rabbids is not first party, or MLB The Show is not first party on Xbox and Switch.

That just makes discussions very very confusing imo. I’d personally just view MLB The Show as a first party Sony titles getting released outside of their own platform. And if Sony didn’t publish any of their games on PC themselves I’d still view those games as Sony first party game releases on PC.

There’s way too much variability in that definition to be meaningful when comparing output.

 

[DeepSpace5D]

This year among in-house games and exclusive 3rd party stuff they got Helldivers 2, TLOU2 remastered, FFVII Rebirth, Rise of the Ronin, Stellar Blade and that’s only until April. But sure…”dead silent” lmao

Add Granblue Fantasy: Relink to that as well! Idk if that technically doesn’t fit because it’s on PS4 also, but it’s another release this year exclusive to PlayStation consoles that is often forgotten about. I still really want to get to it personally. Way too many great releases on PlayStation already this year for me to keep up.

 

[yurinka]

profit and revenue is an overrated retarded metric if you’re not taking in to account inflation, overall size of the market, people’s average disposable income etc.

‘The PS5 is going to be more profitable compared to all of these consoles that launched 15-25 years ago’

No shit. You’ve got 50m people paying to access their own internet connection.

So if we can't use profit and revenue what can we use?

We can use magic fairies and unicorns instead of profit, revenue or active users to analize their success.

We can also say that this graph instead of being revenue and profit means how doomed and dead they are.

It's not just people on here, Nintendo themselves consider Bayonetta 3 a first party game and its sales are counted as first party sales.

Same for Astral Chain, and at launch the IP ownership was split 50/50 with Platinum. Nintendo considers Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3 as first party and Sony considers Spiderman 2 first party, but those IP are owned by Marvel.

That just makes discussions very very confusing imo. I’d personally just view MLB The Show as a first party Sony titles getting released outside of their own platform. And if Sony didn’t publish any of their games on PC themselves I’d still view those games as Sony first party game releases on PC.

There’s way too much variability in that definition to be meaningful when comparing output.

First party game just means "a game published by the platform holder" everywhere: Sony, Nintendo, Xbox, Steam...

In some cases the platform holder owns the IP of the first party game and in others don't. In some cases the first party game is an internally developed first party game and in others it's a second party game (meaning, the lead development studio of a 1st party game isn't owned by that platform holder).

This is not an opinion, it's how the industry considers it. It is what it is, period.

You may think that a dog is a horse, but it isn't. A dog is a dog and a horse is a horse. They are not the same animal. You may say a dog is a horse, but will only mean you're wrong. A dog isn't a horse.

I just hope they wouldn’t fall into the mistake of converting their current first party devs specializing in established non-GaaS IPs into GaaS factories.

If Sony wants GaaS, they should expand, hire, and buy dev teams specializing in GaaS.

Sony's single player teams continue doing their stuff. They expanded with hirings and acquisitions, plus made 2nd party deals for their GaaS.

As an example, TLOU Online was being made by expanding their MP team. While at the same time they were working on two new SP games, one of them started shortly after releasing TLOU2. It's the first time ND has been working on 3 big new games.

Same goes with Guerrilla: they expanded hired back their Killzone 2 MP director (who worked in Rainbow 6 Siege) to direct Horizon Online. At the same time, other teams were working in HFW/Horizon 3 and another one codeveloped with Firesprite Horizon CoM.

Firesprite is working on a MP game -pretty likely GaaS- having highly expanded and working also at the same time in Horizon CoM and in at least a dark horror adventure.

They acquired Bungie, Firewalk and Haven. All 3 with a ton of staff who released top grossing GaaS and top grossing new AAA IPs, and all 3 have been expanded since then.

Polyphony also expanded and how has four offices: LA, Amsterdam and two in Japan. They have a team working in the next game and another one working in post launch content of the previous one.

They also signed 2nd party GaaS titles like Helldivers 2 and the Deviation game.

They basically expanded all their teams, including the non-GaaS ones from places like SSM, Sucker Punch, Insomniac, Housemarque, Bluepoint, Team Asobi, XDEV etc.

People have to come to grips with the possibility/likelihood that this market becomes 90% GAAS in a few short years.

Big publishers focusing on the 10% will be correctly labeled idiots when that happens.

People don't want live service games anymore. The market is oversaturated with them. Even kids, it's not like they'll be able to ask for money for many games at a time.

The majority of the game revenue already comes from GaaS titles. And the majority of players play GaaS. Mobile alone already has like half of the market and it's mostly F2P (so GaaS). The top grossing PC, console and mobile games are GaaS. The gaming revenue from add-ons (so, mostly GaaS) has been increasing since several years ago, while the revenue from game sales has been decreasing.

These are all facts.

Why do you think Sony has been dead silent this gen?

They haven't. They annonced and released a lot of first party games and 3rd party exclusives, many accesories (like PSVR2 or PS Player and many more) and PS+ improvements, plus movie and tv show adaptations of their gaming IPs.

Why do you think Jim Ryan left?

He retired because he's old (and rich). Already broke most of the records he could break, and left the business in a growing trend in many areas -all of them with record revenue and profit numbers-, including some new ones to expand ther business. All this growth will help them break the remaining couple records he didn't break.

His bet into Live Service is not working

First, it wasn't his bet. Andrew House (and later Kodera), Shuhei Yoshida and Shawn Layden were the ones who started to work on their expansion to GaaS and PC. Jim Ryan only continued the work, hired or acquired some experts, grew all the teams and killed the ones who didn't look good.

MLB, Gran Turismo, Destiny and Helldivers are the first 4 big successes of that GaaS strategy. And very likely more like Concord and Marathon will also be very successful too very soon.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

The majority of the game revenue already comes from GaaS titles. And the majority of players play GaaS. Mobile alone already has like half of the market and it's mostly F2P (so GaaS).

We're not at 90% yet though.

We're quickly pushing towards the point where videogames are synonymous with Live Service. Traditional games will be viewed as an oddity, the way 2D games are viewed today.

 

[hinch7]

Probably the least deserving PS in terms of sales, if we count the first party output this generation. Thankfully we have third parties like Capcom proping up this generation and smaller indie devs.

 

[Robb]

This is not an opinion, it's how the industry considers it. It is what it is, period.

I mean you guys are obviously right. I’m just saying that’s not the interpretation I have used in this discussion because, to me, that’s not a meaningful definition.

The whole point to me is to distinguish between their output and compare them. If first party games can suddenly overlap (Sony publishing the same game as Nintendo on their respective platforms), differ by region, disregard the IP ownership etc. etc. that’s just too broad.

I guess I need to find a new term. To me first party games have always been mutually exclusive, i.e. a first party Nintendo game can not also be a first party Sony game simultaneously. They’d only switch if Sony/Nintendo bough the rights of ownership of said IP.

 

[yurinka]

I mean you guys are obviously right. I’m just saying that’s not the interpretation I have used in this discussion because, to me, that’s not a meaningful definition.

The whole point to me is to distinguish between their output and compare them. If first party games can suddenly overlap (Sony publishing the same game as Nintendo on their respective platforms), differ by region, disregard the IP ownership etc. etc. that’s just too broad.

I guess I need to find a new term. To me first party games have always been mutually exclusive, i.e. a first party Nintendo game can not also be a first party Sony game simultaneously. They’d only switch if Sony/Nintendo bough the rights of ownership of said IP.

Maybe you can use this:

• First party game - game published by platform holder
• Internally developed first party game - game published by a platform holder and with a lead dev studio owned by such platform holder
• Second party game - game published by a platform holder with a lead dev studio not
• IP owned first (or second) party game - first party game where such platform holder owns that game IP
• Non IP owned first (or second) party game- first party game where such platform holder doesn't own that game IP

Another thing I forgot to mention: First party games don't imply exclusivity. As an example, Sony game ported to PC is first party game on PlayStation, but a 3rd party game on Steam.

Meaning, for these 5 points you can also make variations adding at the start "exclusive", "fully exclusive", "crossgen exclusive", "console exclusive", "permanent console exclusive" or "temporal console exclusive".

"across multiple vectors" means nothing.

With "across multiple vectors" Jim Ryan meant that in the PS5 gen they broke this and other records:

• Largest gaming yearly revenue ever made by any console maker in gaming history
• Largest gaming yearly profit ever made by Sony
• Largest console hardware yearly revenue ever made by any console maker in gaming history
• Fastest selling console launch ever in gaming history
• Fastest selling console VR launch ever in gaming history
• Largest console software yearly revenue ever made by any console maker in gaming history
• Largest accesories yearly revenue ever made by any console maker in gaming history
• Largest game sub yearly revenue ever made by any console maker in gaming history
• Largest PC software yearly revenue ever made by Sony (they have been making computer games since the '80s)
• Largest first party games yearly revenue ever made by Sony (not sure but I'd be Nintendo has a higher record)
• Largest first party games yearly units sold ever made by Sony (not sure but I'd be Nintendo has a higher record)
• Biggest amount of GOTY awards ever achieved by a game in gaming history
• Largest amount of GOTY nominations in a year ever achieved by a console maker
• Largest console active userbase (MAU) ever achieved by any console maker in gaming history
• Largest amount of console game sub subscribers ever achieved by any console maker in gaming history
• Largest amount of games sold per console ever for any console in gaming history
• Largest ARPU in a console ever in gaming history

As SIE CEO he left two records to break: "best selling console ever at the end of its lifetime" (record hold by PS2, achieved when he was in charge of its best selling region, Europe) and "Largest yearly gaming profit ever made by a console maker in gaming history", something I think they'll achieve in some years as they continue releasing the projects he left in the works to expand in GaaS, PC, movies+tv show adaptations, mobile, plus to do something to address the growing costs of the hardware components.

He has been tthe most successful console maker ever in multiple vectors, period. It's a fact.