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[Robb]

Maybe you can use this:

Good list but I could feel my brain start to decompose as I read through it. I think I'd rather just avoid future discussions on the subject if it's this messy.

 

[The artful mincer]

We can use magic fairies and unicorns instead of profit, revenue or active users to analize their success.

Ah the Phil Spencer way of measuring success.

 

[Woopah]

That just makes discussions very very confusing imo. I'd personally just view MLB The Show as a first party Sony titles getting released outside of their own platform. And if Sony didn't publish any of their games on PC themselves I'd still view those games as Sony first party game releases on PC.

There's way too much variability in that definition to be meaningful when comparing output.

Nintendo straight up tells everyone which titles are first party and its based on publisher, not IP or developer ownership.

So the simplest and most accurate way is to apply that same criteria to Sony and Microsoft.

 

[Robb]

Nintendo straight up tells everyone which titles are first party and its based on publisher, not IP or developer ownership.

So the simplest and most accurate way is to apply that same criteria to Sony and Microsoft.

I agree. I'd be reluctant to count the same game/IP as a first party title for Sony, MS and Nintendo (and in theory infinitely more companies) simultaneously though.

But the issue here is obviously me using the term "first party" when I mean/thinking it means something else.

That is what makes them first party. I don't make the rules.

Just in case you are not following this thread anymore I stand corrected. Given that publishing is all that matters you are indeed right.

 

[Woopah]

I agree. I'd be reluctant to count the same game/IP as a first party title for Sony, MS and Nintendo (and in theory infinitely more companies) though.

But the issue here is obviously me using the term "first party" when I mean/thinking it means something else.

Well it would be unusual for that to happen as those three companies don't publish the same games.

It can happen with IP. Spiderman appears in the first party Spiderman games for Sony, and in the first party Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3 for Nintendo.

Likewise Spyro appeared in first party Sony games, and in the future he could appear in first party Microsoft games.

On the broader topic, I think its right for Sony to get credit for publishing Helldivers 2 and Stellar Blade, just like Nintendo gets credit for publishing Astral Chain and Ever Oasis.

 

[Robb]

Well it would be unusual for that to happen as those three companies don't publish the same games

Definitely, I'm just playing with the thought. It rubs my mindset the wrong way saying that God of War Ragnarok would be a first party MS title if they published the PC version.

I've never thought about it on a platform by platform basis, e.g. as soon as MS bought RARE, the Banjo Kazooie games became a MS first party. Whether Nintendo published the N64 games or not have always been irrelevant to me, those are MS games now. But with this definition I guess Banjo Kazooie is still a first party Nintendo game, while simultaneously being a first party MS game.

 

[Woopah]

Definitely, I'm just playing with the thought. It rubs my mindset the wrong way saying that God of War Ragnarok would be a first party MS title if they published the PC version.

I've never thought about it on a platform by platform basis, e.g. as soon as MS bought RARE, the Banjo Kazooie games became a MS first party. Whether Nintendo published the N64 games or not have always been irrelevant to me, those are MS games now. But with this definition I guess Banjo Kazooie is still a first party Nintendo game, while simultaneously being a first party MS game.

Well first/third party is in relationship to the platform holder.

A Sony or Microsoft game on Steam is just as third party to Valve as a Capcom or EA game.

Grounded and Pertinent on Switch are just as third party to Nintendo as Hogwarts Legacy or Monster Hunter.

Banjo Kazoee on N64 is a first party Nintendo game and Sunset Overdrive on Xbox One is still a first party Microsoft game, despite the developers being bought by other platform holders.

If Microsoft published a Banjo Kazoee remake on Xbox Series, that would be a first party Microsoft game.

 

[Robb]

Banjo Kazoee on N64 is a first party Nintendo game and Sunset Overdrive on Xbox One is still a first party Microsoft game, despite the developers being bought by other platform holders.

Yeah, that's what I've gathered as it's only additive. If a game has ever been published by anyone, it's a first party game in perpetuity.

But that's not a very helpful way to look at it if you want to compare games between platform holders imo, as there will not only be an overlap of both titles and IP but also an absolute ton of titles that they have nothing to do with outside of publishing that you have to keep track off. Not to mention regional differences etc. etc.

But I guess we're just going in circles at this point. In any case, if you'd have asked me out of the blue to make a list of first party Nintendo games, Banjo Kazooie wouldn't have been on that list. Neither would something like Devils Third.

 

[Woopah]

Yeah, that's what I've gathered as it's only additive. If a game has ever been published by anyone, it's a first party game in perpetuity.

Yes, and it works the other way round too. MS buying Activision doesn't retroactively stop Call of Duty 4 on PS3/360 being a third party game.

But that's not a very helpful way to look at it if you want to compare games between platform holders imo, as there will not only be an overlap of both titles and IP but also an absolute ton of titles that they have nothing to do with outside of publishing that you have to keep track off. Not to mention regional differences etc. etc.

But I guess we're just going in circles at this point. In any case, if you'd have asked me out of the blue to make a list of first party Nintendo games, Banjo Kazooie wouldn't have been on that list. Neither would something like Devils Third.

I quite like this topic, so don't mind discussing it at all!

And I think this is the best and most fair way to compare across companies. Since that way you don't miss anything out.

For example, you just said you wouldn't include Devil's Third, but on what grounds? Nintendo's Hitoshi Yamagami was one of the two Producers on the game, and his SPD2 team collaborated with Valhallah Games to make it.

In the same way, SPD2 collaborated with:

• Intelligent Systems on Fire Emblem Awakening and Code Name Steam
• Syn Sophia on Style Savy: Fashion Forward
• HAL on Kirby Planet Robot
• Game Freak on Pokémon Black and White 2
• Platinum Games on The Wonderful 101

Would you also not include those titles in a list of Nintendo first party games? I would.