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[zedinen]

1. PS5 is the most successful product in Sony Group history

PS5 in only 3 and half years has generated more profit ($10B) than PS1, PS2, PS3 and PS4 combined, and PS5 operating income is on track to surpass $20B by end of gen.


-G&NS operating income surged by:

Mar (+172% YoY)

Jun (+33% YoY)

Sep (+183% YoY)


And G&NS raised its profit forecast in Nov

2. SIE overcame the pandemic and Microsoft spending spree ($80B)

US: PS5 LTD sales are 7% ahead of PS4; Xbox Series trails Xbox One by 18%

Asia: PS overtook Nintendo according to Niko Partners (Market Share PS 39.7% NSW 32.1%)

First Party Games are Selling Better than Ever (Sales CAGR +19%)

Dec 2024 US

#8 Astro Bot (SP) / #13 Spider-Man 2 (SP) #15 Helldivers 2 (GaaS) / #18 GOW Ragnarok (SP)

2024 US

#3 Helldivers 2 (GaaS) / #14 MLB: The Show 24 (GaaS) / #19 Spider-Man 2 (SP)

3. However, SIE will not be able to capitalize on PS5 success


SIE is not allowed to cut prices because Totoki’s capital allocation has depleted Sony Group cash reserves.

SIE is not allowed to reinvest its profits because Yoshida and Totoki, the most incompetent duo to ever run Sony, bet the farm on Music and Pictures

Entertainment: Long-Lived Assets ($20B)

Music 50%, Pictures 32%, PS 18%


Entertainment: Sales ($50B)

PS 58%, Music 22%, Pictures 20%

4. Sony Net Cash Position ($-4.7 B) reflects their poor capital allocation

¥482.9B (mar 18)


– ¥589.7B (mar 24)


- ¥760.39 B (-$4.7b, sep 24)


Cash ¥790.76B

S/T Borrowings ¥291.14B

L/T Debt ¥1,332.01B

5. Buybacks will loot SIE profits and future, and save Yoshida and Totoki

2024: Sony Buybacks ¥309.18b

Feb ¥59.13B

May ¥8.52B

Jun ¥35.21B

Jul ¥53.59B

Aug ¥60.27B

Sep ¥36.90B

Oct ¥42.56B

Nov ¥12.92B

6. Jim Ryan, thank you

FY12 G&NS accounts for 10% of Sony sales (Jim Ryan was SCE Europe CEO)

FY23 G&NS accounts for 32% of Sony sales (Jim Ryan, SIE CEO, retired)

 

[SHA]

One thing is the parallel reality of the forums where Playstation is finished and is its worst generation and another is the real market where it is breaking revenue records, Hermen's disaster with the gaas does not matter to the general public.

Same with Xbox, they both exist therefore shouldn't matter.

 

[SHA]

PS2 didn't have much competition

PC?

 

[Mibu no ookami]

1. PS5 is the most successful product in Sony Group history




2. SIE overcame the pandemic and Microsoft spending spree ($80B)




First Party Games are Selling Better than Ever (Sales CAGR +19%)

3. However, SIE will not be able to capitalize on PS5 success


SIE is not allowed to cut prices because Totoki’s capital allocation has depleted Sony Group cash reserves.

SIE is not allowed to reinvest its profits because Yoshida and Totoki, the most incompetent duo to ever run Sony, bet the farm on Music and Pictures





4. Sony Net Cash Position ($-4.7 B) reflects their poor capital allocation





5. Buybacks will loot SIE profits and future, and save Yoshida and Totoki




6. Jim Ryan, thank you

FY12 G&NS accounts for 10% of Sony sales (Jim Ryan was SCE Europe CEO)

FY23 G&NS accounts for 32% of Sony sales (Jim Ryan, SIE CEO, retired)

You'd think someone as detailed as you (assuming you didn't copy this from somewhere else) would have better sense.

Movies and music are easier avenues to operate. Music, especially catalog music manages itself. Movies and TV can be made in a year. Games can take 5-7+ years to make. It's a much riskier business that requires significantly more management, time, and resources. Not to mention that Sony's transmedia strategy can transform their games business by leveraging strength in TV and Movies.

We're going to see the next phase of that this year with TLOU Season 2, TLOU2 on PC and PS5, TLOU P1 Remake on PC and PS5 and Until Dawn.

And this idea that Sony isn't investing in PS5 is laughable. You just don't understand the investment.

There is no ROI in buying large assets like Ubisoft, but you don't look at context. Sony makes strategic investments and we've just seen the first major investment in Kadokawa. By the end of the decade they'll own Kadokawa outright and FromSoftware along with them. Meanwhile it makes more sense to investment in start up companies even if they fail than it is to dump billions on companies with little return.

Sony already owns the console market. What many are looking for them to do is take on operating costs for a slight bump in revenue...

Would you rather get 30% of a games revenue with 0 operating cost or would you rather get 100% plus the risk of failure and the operating costs? If game ends up a hit, sure it might make sense, but what if it doesn't? Not to mention the more games you release the more you start competing with yourself.

Lastly, the stock buyback has been genius. Sony is betting on themselves as a fast moving stock on the market. Their stock is up 21% in the last 6 months and 45% in the last 5 years. Sony is going to be worth 200 billion dollars by 2030, buying back its own stock will more easily allow them to make capital purchases in the future and/or use stock options to reduce their payroll by compensating workers in stock rather than increased wages. This motivates employees to improve deliverables and it looks better on the balance sheet making the stock go up further.

 

[SHA]

Modded consoles obviously, they don't count. You won't find these users there anymore, because of that, pc numbers keeps on growing.

 

[Felessan]

Is literally anything I said there not true?

Your assumption that you are important in a grand scale of things.

SIE is not allowed to reinvest its profits because Yoshida and Totoki, the most incompetent duo to ever run Sony, bet the farm on Music and Pictures

WTF is this? What does capital allocation has to do with expansion of business?
Sony clearly doesn't want to go MS route "buy now, think later", so it allocates capital where it have most sense now. They have no trouble to get money at any moment whether need arise.
And cash position? really? a company literally own a bank, why should it care about cash position?

You sit on a cash when you have no clue how efficiently invest it. And Sony has so many business flourishing so its non-issue for them.

 

[Three]

And cash position? really? a company literally own a bank, why should it care about cash position?

You sit on a cash when you have no clue how efficiently invest it. And Sony has so many business flourishing so its non-issue for them.

They divested their 'bank' didn't they?

 

[Cakeboxer]

The day Halo is announced on PS5, will be the official end of the "console wars" and everyone intrinsically understands that.

Xbox is done since mid last gen and every Xbox fanboy knows it. Console wars will only end when there is no console left. Once Xbox hardware disappears PS fanboys will rush at Switch 2 and Pc instead and Xbox fanboys will scatter around.

 

[Felessan]

They divested their 'bank' didn't they?

Don't really matter - they have a easy access to capital if needed.
Also they have ties with mitsui keiretsu that has a huge friendly bank so they are very solid on financing side.

 

[onQ123]

PC?

No lol

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

How is it not good news?

Why isn't better competition needed?

 

[SHA]

Why isn't better competition needed?

Competition for young people, it's like saying they can't become the best version of themselves without a cause.

 

[onQ123]

Why isn't better competition needed?

Because that's some BS that people trying to push because Xbox is falling behind ( again)


PlayStation still has to make desirable hardware & devs still have to make desirable software.


This fear of no competition is being falsely created because when PS1 & PS2 got so far ahead of the competition that they didn't matter anymore the result was more games being made for them because less time was being wasted developing for the other consoles.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Because that's some BS that people trying to push because Xbox is falling behind ( again)


PlayStation still has to make desirable hardware & devs still have to make desirable software.


This fear of no competition is being falsely created because when PS1 & PS2 got so far ahead of the competition that they didn't matter anymore the result was more games being made for them because less time was being wasted developing for the other consoles.

I want competition and a new company for Sony to contend with don't you?

 

[onQ123]

I want competition and a new company for Sony to contend with don't you?

You sound stupid or playing stupid for whatever reason.


Xbox is still here , Nintendo is still here , PC & all the new handheld devices are still here.

Xbox game studios is bigger than it has ever been. Why pretend like PlayStation doesn't have competition?

Play these games with someone who doesn't know any better.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

You sound stupid or playing stupid for whatever reason.


Xbox is still here , Nintendo is still here , PC & all the new handheld devices are still here.

Xbox game studios is bigger than it has ever been. Why pretend like PlayStation doesn't have competition?

Play these games with someone who doesn't know any better.

I said competition and if you think PlayStation has competition you are the stupid one.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

The news of PlayStation Productions making a new Resident Evil movie is lowkey massive for Sony.

Not only is Playstation Productions working on something outside of their own IP, but they're farming out the product to the highest bidder rather than being tethered to Sony Pictures.

This is a massive turn of events compared to say Marvel Studios. It means that they can become a much bigger media center, especially if they get the reputation of being able to turn gaming properties into successful tv and movie series. Not only is the PS5 the most profitable product for Sony but PlayStation itself is going to turn into a powerhouse of revenue. Yet people think Sony cares about a handful of canceled games mostly by their C tier studios?

Resident Evil is likely just the beginning.

 

[onQ123]

I said competition and if you think PlayStation has competition you are the stupid one.

Would you like to explain to me how it went from this to PlayStation has no competition?
https://www.neogaf.com/threads/ot-xbox-power-king-memes.1531914/

 

[ProtoByte]

Xbox game studios is bigger than it has ever been. Why pretend like PlayStation doesn't have competition?

They're not getting competition from Xbox, and they act as though PC is not opposed to PS.

I hoped Nintendo would bite into their lunch, but after that Switch 2 reveal? Nah.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Would you like to explain to me how it went from this to PlayStation has no competition?
https://www.neogaf.com/threads/ot-xbox-power-king-memes.1531914/

What?

 

[onQ123]

What?

This same generation started off with fanboys running around talking about how Series X was going to crush PS5 but now we have people saying that PlayStation doesn't have any competition.

Keep in mind that we also have threads & people claiming this is the worst generation for PlayStation.

 

[Ronin_7]

GTA6 and the collapse of Xbox will give them a big boost in 2025.

And that’s despite their first party 2025 lineup looking relatively meh.

Jim Ryan & Hulst effect.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

GTA6 and the collapse of Xbox will give them a big boost in 2025.

And that’s despite their first party 2025 lineup looking relatively meh.

Their first party 2025 lineup is great too if it launches. Death Stranding 2 and Ghost of Yotei are probably going to be GOTY contenders in their own right.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

This same generation started off with fanboys running around talking about how Series X was going to crush PS5 but now we have people saying that PlayStation doesn't have any competition.

Keep in mind that we also have threads & people claiming this is the worst generation for PlayStation.

How many years ago was this?
Xbox still sold back then.

So it was but isn't now.

 

[m14]

The news of PlayStation Productions making a new Resident Evil movie is lowkey massive for Sony.

Not only is Playstation Productions working on something outside of their own IP, but they're farming out the product to the highest bidder rather than being tethered to Sony Pictures.

This is a massive turn of events compared to say Marvel Studios. It means that they can become a much bigger media center, especially if they get the reputation of being able to turn gaming properties into successful tv and movie series. Not only is the PS5 the most profitable product for Sony but PlayStation itself is going to turn into a powerhouse of revenue. Yet people think Sony cares about a handful of canceled games mostly by their C tier studios?

Resident Evil is likely just the beginning.

Why on earth would you expect a Resident Evil movie to be a gamechanger? It's not exactly a new property for the big screen and the Netflix series was cancelled after a single season.

PS Productions doesn't have an extensive track record at this point either. Most of their output has been critically reviled slop.

 

[onQ123]

How many years ago was this?
Xbox still sold back then.

So it was but isn't now.

It was this same generation.

These consoles are only 4 years old .

At what point in this generation did PlayStation not have any competition?

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Why on earth would you expect a Resident Evil movie to be a gamechanger? It's not exactly a new property for the big screen and the Netflix series was cancelled after a single season.

PS Productions doesn't have an extensive track record at this point either. Most of their output has been critically reviled slop.

Try and pay attention...

It's not about Resident Evil, it's about producing movies that they don't own the IP for, which means the sky is the limit.

Their movies have made bank on their first outings and TLOU is one of the biggest tv shows of all time... Not sure what to tell you.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

You can see the top downloaded ps4 games, most are GaaS games and annual release games.

But just by sheer numbers the PS4 user base have to be contributing a decent % of the revenue still. I think Marvel Rivals is the only big F2P game that is current gen only.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

But just by sheer numbers the PS4 user base have to be contributing a decent % of the revenue still. I think only Marvel Rivals is the only big F2P game that is current gen only.

There are quite a few F2P games that are PS5 only: ZZZ, Wuthering Waves, Infinity Nikki, Honkai Star Rail, Valorant, The Finals, POE2,

 

[onQ123]

There are quite a few F2P games that are PS5 only: ZZZ, Wuthering Waves, Infinity Nikki, Honkai Star Rail, Valorant, The Finals, POE2,

The Finals came to PS4 a few months ago

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

It was this same generation.

These consoles are only 4 years old .

At what point in this generation did PlayStation not have any competition?

And it's over already for the former competitor.
Are you saying it can flip?

When sales figures released showing PS5 5-1 over xbox and xbox announced it was releasing games on PlayStation.

 

[m14]

Try and pay attention...

It's not about Resident Evil, it's about producing movies that they don't own the IP for, which means the sky is the limit.

Their movies have made bank on their first outings and TLOU is one of the biggest tv shows of all time... Not sure what to tell you.

The fact that they will be making a Resident Evil movie (the last RE movie took $42 million at the box office and the Netflix series was cancelled after one season) does not indicate that they will be entrusted with any kind of quality IP. To suggest the "sky is the limit" on that basis is mere wishful thinking on your behalf.

Also, by what metric is TLOU "one of the biggest shows of all time"?

 

[onQ123]

And it's over already for the former competitor.
Are you saying it can flip?

When sales figures released showing PS5 5-1 over xbox and xbox announced it was releasing games on PlayStation.

It's not going to flip but why try to push this BS about PlayStation 5 not having any competition?

For the record I spoke on this new Marching Order a few days ago people claiming that no competition is bad for PlayStation.

 

[playbignbox]

Good for Sony, I guess. But for the user, probably the worst generation of PlayStation

 

[Mibu no ookami]

The fact that they will be making a Resident Evil movie (the last RE movie took $42 million at the box office and the Netflix series was cancelled after one season) does not indicate that they will be entrusted with any kind of quality IP. To suggest the "sky is the limit" on that basis is mere wishful thinking on your behalf.

They're working on IP outside of their own, there requires conversations happening where either they went to Capcom or Capcom came to them and at the end of the day, Capcom said, yes we want PlayStation Productions to do this.

The Resident Evil movies have generated over 1.2 billion dollars at the box office and this effort is looking to be more of a direct adaptation. Your silly reference to the last Resident Evil movie makes no sense. It would be like saying Dune 1984 grossed 31 million at the box office that WB doing a Dune revival wasn't a big deal. Meanwhile the Dune 1 did 407 million worldwide and Dune 2 did 714 million worldwide.

Also, by what metric is TLOU "one of the biggest shows of all time"?

‘The Last of Us’ Passes ‘House of the Dragon’ in Full-Season Viewers

The HBO drama's first six episodes have racked up a bigger audience than the 'Game of Thrones' prequel, and Sunday's finale hit a premiere night high.

www.hollywoodreporter.com

I get that some people want to live outside of reality, but my advice... just stop it...

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

It's not going to flip but why try to push this BS about PlayStation 5 not having any competition?

For the record I spoke on this new Marching Order a few days ago people claiming that no competition is bad for PlayStation.

Nothing to push the numbers speak for themselves and this take is far from BS.

It is bad for PlayStation's consumers hence consumers wanting..........








Competition

 

[onQ123]

Nothing to push the numbers speak for themselves and this take is far from BS.

It is bad for PlayStation's consumers hence consumers wanting..........








Competition

It's BS

PlayStation sold 100 million without Xbox around & they're selling 100 million with Xbox around but somehow you want to convince me that we need Xbox or Some other console maker around or things will be bad for PlayStation consumers?

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Games compete with eachother. That's the main competition, not the platform.

 

[m14]

They're working on IP outside of their own, there requires conversations happening where either they went to Capcom or Capcom came to them and at the end of the day, Capcom said, yes we want PlayStation Productions to do this.

It seems unlikely that Capcom were fielding offers from prestigious production companies if they had to settle for their property being handled by PlayStation Productions. After the failure of the RE Netflix series and the previous movie, they weren't in a strong bargaining position.

The Resident Evil movies have generated over 1.2 billion dollars at the box office and this effort is looking to be more of a direct adaptation. Your silly reference to the last Resident Evil movie makes no sense. It would be like saying Dune 1984 grossed 31 million at the box office that WB doing a Dune revival wasn't a big deal. Meanwhile the Dune 1 did 407 million worldwide and Dune 2 did 714 million worldwide.

I think most people would agree that the box office takings of the previous instalment in the franchise (as well as the cancellation of the tv series) is highly pertinent information.
Comparing Resident Evil to Dune is a major reach. Not to mention that the previous RE film was released just three years ago, while there were over three decades between Dune adaptations. Context matters.

‘The Last of Us’ Passes ‘House of the Dragon’ in Full-Season Viewers

The HBO drama's first six episodes have racked up a bigger audience than the 'Game of Thrones' prequel, and Sunday's finale hit a premiere night high.

www.hollywoodreporter.com

I get that some people want to live outside of reality, but my advice... just stop it...

Impressive numbers but not exactly record breaking. It isn't even the most watched series on HBO Max at this point.

The Last of Us Dethroned as Max's Most-Watched Series Ever

The Last of Us gets its impressive streaming viewership record broken at Max.

www.cbr.com

Just for the record, are you now proclaiming "Quiet on Set" as "one of the biggest tv shows of all time" also?

 

[RoboFu]

So are we cheering getting gouged ?

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

It's BS

PlayStation sold 100 million without Xbox around & they're selling 100 million with Xbox around but somehow you want to convince me that we need Xbox or Some other console maker around or things will be bad for PlayStation consumers?

They had multiple consoles to compete with that released that generation including a Nintendo one from a Nintendo company who was coming from winning the two previous generations.

Yes we do need competition. Are you trying to say Sony's PlayStation output is good this generation?

 

[DeepEnigma]

So are we cheering getting gouged ?

 

[onQ123]

They had multiple consoles to compete with that released that generation including a Nintendo one from a Nintendo company who was coming from winning the two previous generations.

Yes we do need competition. Are you trying to say Sony's PlayStation output is good this generation?

N64 & GameCube was less competition than Xbox Series with Microsoft buying up the biggest 3rd party publisher in the industry.


If you think that PlayStation output wasn't good this generation shouldn't your argument be that Xbox doesn't have any competition instead of claiming PlayStation doesn't have any competition?

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

N64 & GameCube was less competition than Xbox Series with Microsoft buying up the biggest 3rd party publisher in the industry.


If you think that PlayStation output wasn't good this generation shouldn't your argument be that Xbox doesn't have any competition instead of claiming PlayStation doesn't have any competition?

No they weren't. Nintendo was the industry leader in the previous generations as I already stated. Xbox has never been the leader nor won a generation.


Sony's Playstation output this generation has been very disappointing.
It's because no competition exists.

That argument you are proposing makes zero sense.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

No they weren't. Nintendo was the industry leader in the previous generations as I already stated. Xbox has never been the leader nor won a generation.


Sony's Playstation output this generation has been very disappointing.
It's because no competition exists.

That argument you are proposing makes zero sense.

Playstation's output this gen has blown away any other gen from a commercial sales standpoint. So your opinion is the minority.

 

[onQ123]

No they weren't. Nintendo was the industry leader in the previous generations as I already stated. Xbox has never been the leader nor won a generation.


Sony's Playstation output this generation has been very disappointing.
It's because no competition exists.

That argument you are proposing makes zero sense.

So a Nintendo console that sold 32 million & a Sega console that sold 9 million was competition for 100 million selling PS1 but some how a Nintendo console that's at over 140 million & a Xbox that's around 30 million isn't competition for PS5 at around 70 million sold?

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Playstation's output this gen has blown away any other gen from a commercial sales standpoint. So your opinion is the minority.

I don't play sales I play games.
This gens Sony made games are critically inferior as are the overpriced services compared to the previous generation.

Also 2020 onward covid lockdown had a bunch to do with sales.

So a Nintendo console that sold 32 million & a Sega console that sold 9 million was competition for 100 million selling PS1 but some how a Nintendo console that's at over 140 million & a Xbox that's around 30 million isn't competition for PS5 at around 70 million sold?

Yes as explained multiple times already.

 

[onQ123]

I don't play sales I play games.
This gens Sony made games are critically inferior as are the overpriced services compared to the previous generation.

Also 2020 onward covid lockdown had a bunch to do with sales.

Yes as explained multiple times already.

Explain it again

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I don't play sales I play games.
This gens Sony made games are critically inferior as are the overpriced services compared to the previous generation.

Also 2020 onward covid lockdown had a bunch to do with sales.

Consumers play games, not sales either. And their first party output has had far more sales/players than previous generations

Nothing to do with lockdowns, this is a consistent feature throughout the years including this one

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Consumers play games, not sales either. And their first party output has had far more sales/players than previous generations

Nothing to do with lockdowns, this is a consistent feature throughout the years including this one

Right and critically this gens Sony output is inferior.
Minus Helldivers 2 1st party game sales aren't improving.

Explain it again

Previous posts. If that's not enough move along I'm done with this revolving repeating myself circle.