badcrumble
Member
Heh, yeah. In some ways simpler, in some ways more complex. It'd certainly transform the franchise pretty radically.
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Kingdom Hearts Community Thread: Now everybody can be a Keyblade Wielder!
- Thread starter Blood Diamonds
- Start date
badcrumble
Member
As for Olympus Coliseum/Hercules, I really loved the way that worked in KH1 for all the rewards it had, but I think Birth by Sleep had the right idea of separating the "tournament" world aesthetically from the Disney-adapted worlds. I don't think KH3 needs to have the Mirage Arena specifically but it ought to have a tournament/superboss world that is wholly original to KH instead of being Disney-based.
I'd like to see this entire thing blow up in everyone's faces, including Xehanort. For example, Xehanort succeeds, but when he attempts to rebalance everything by combining light and dark, it either results in something far worse than the heartless or causes a cataclysmic event that throws all of the worlds into chaos to the point where there are pure dark worlds and pure light worlds existing in the same plane, and good characters try to learn to make use of the darkness to do good, and your new protagonist can make use of either, and whichever one they favor doesn't affect their actual alignment to good and evil, just their powers.
Blood Diamonds
Banned
I think a new Protagonist would be really cool but Nomura already said that Sora is the main character until the very end.
badcrumble
Member
It's pretty clear that Xehanort isn't 100% sure what will happen once he opens the door to Kingdom Hearts, yeah. His intention isn't to rejoin the worlds, though, it's to pretty much reset the entire universe (possibly with himself as some sort of god or creator-figure - though I can't see Kingdom Hearts ever going anywhere near that kind of theological language).
But I could see Sora also attaining that power, using it to give a full existence to Naminé, Roxas, and Xion (maybe), using it to rejoin the worlds (maybe), fixing the damage Xehanort has done (definitely), and then giving that power up because for all his relative two-dimensionality compared to the other playable protagonists in the series, he's definitely very selfless and generous.
R10Neymarfan
Member
He better not Final Fantasy it.
I for one enjoy new protagonists. Keeping the same character forever is kind of bad
I don't think they need Kingdom Hearts for that. There's probably something in Ansem's hidden research that will allow them to create new bodies for them. Having a reformed Even on their side could mean access to his Replica research.
Literally just "download" their essences from Sora's heart and memories into a sort of avatar. I wonder if they'll need Naminé first in order to properly separate Roxas and Xion's memories.
Contradiction? FF changes its protagonists and just about everything else all the time. Unless you're talking direct story sequels, which is decidedly un-Final Fantasy like and certainly not what the series is known for.
Am I correct in thinking that the pure dark forces like Maleficent and Ansem: Seeker of Darkness technically aren't after Kingdom Hearts itself, but just wanted access to the dark realm that surrounds it? I guess it would explain why darkness was seeping out of the door, but the light from Kingdom Hearts itself ended up killing Ansem since he thought that it would be darkness due to existing in the dark realm. What would happen if both sides (Ansem and the Organization) succeeded in getting their own Kingdom Hearts since they're technically separate entities, one created by combining a ton of hearts and one that already existed?
Blood Diamonds
Banned
I really hope we get Shibuya in KH 3, it was promised in DDD but you never know :l
badcrumble
Member
That'd be cool but I'm pretty sure Midgar's a bit more overdue (and equally unlikely, for what it's worth). I'd hardly say it was "promised" really.
I could see a non-canonical Sora cameo in TWEWY2 as being more likely, though. Think of it as something akin to Cloud's appearance in Final Fantasy Tactics.
badcrumble
Member
I *do* think that further KH-original worlds are likely to happen, though.
Daybreak Town (that's the name, right DreamDrop? can't remember and you're our resident KH [chi] expert) is almost certain to happen, of course.
Then there's pretty much the guarantee of:
-Radiant Garden
-Castle Oblivion/Land of Departure
-The World that Never Was
-Mysterious Tower
Also likely/possible:
-Destiny Islands (perhaps not playable, though)
-Keyblade Graveyard (again, perhaps not playable)
-"World of Darkness" (the recurring area on the nighttime beach grotto is still awfully difficult to parse with regard to the "world"/"realm" terminology problem discussed earlier - and this one also might not be playable)
I think we can likely rule out Traverse Town and Twilight Town, even though it'd be super-neat to see the three separate clocktower-towns eventually combined into a single bigger area someday.
Likewise, I think we're very unlikely to see KH1's "End of the World" in this one or BBS's Mirage Arena.
If there are previously unseen playable worlds in this game, I suspect we'll see:
-Kingdom Hearts as a final dungeon
-some sort of Mirage Arena-style tournament/superboss arena
Daybreak Town (that's the name, right DreamDrop? can't remember and you're our resident KH [chi] expert) is almost certain to happen, of course.
Then there's pretty much the guarantee of:
-Radiant Garden
-Castle Oblivion/Land of Departure
-The World that Never Was
-Mysterious Tower
Also likely/possible:
-Destiny Islands (perhaps not playable, though)
-Keyblade Graveyard (again, perhaps not playable)
-"World of Darkness" (the recurring area on the nighttime beach grotto is still awfully difficult to parse with regard to the "world"/"realm" terminology problem discussed earlier - and this one also might not be playable)
I think we can likely rule out Traverse Town and Twilight Town, even though it'd be super-neat to see the three separate clocktower-towns eventually combined into a single bigger area someday.
Likewise, I think we're very unlikely to see KH1's "End of the World" in this one or BBS's Mirage Arena.
If there are previously unseen playable worlds in this game, I suspect we'll see:
-Kingdom Hearts as a final dungeon
-some sort of Mirage Arena-style tournament/superboss arena
badcrumble
Member
I just happened upon this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kL95Q6U5WlM
Something really interesting about this is that it made me realize that, unlike KH1's combat system, KH2 has Sora and most human-sized bosses actually operate by a very very similar set of rules. They all have combos, combo finishers, air juggles, air recovery moves, and so on, though the use of all of these varies in power and effectiveness.
What's fascinating here is that one of Sora's Forms can be converted into a relatively basic enemy quite easily, apparently, without glitching out - the game knows how to fight with it. It makes me wonder if (outside of battle scripting) these different enemies all fundamentally have the same AI and just vary in strength based on their stats and the speed/hitstun/area of effect/etc. properties of their movesets.
It also makes me realize that KH2's essential combat system is already quite compatible with a KH multiplayer combat concept, and that it likely actually wouldn't be very hard at all to make the assorted Organization members (for example) into controllable characters.
Birth By Sleep's Versus mode is another step in that direction too.
It makes me wonder if KH3 will have any sort of online duel mode included in the game that'd let you play as the assorted Keyblade wielders in the game, as various Organization members, and so on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kL95Q6U5WlM
Something really interesting about this is that it made me realize that, unlike KH1's combat system, KH2 has Sora and most human-sized bosses actually operate by a very very similar set of rules. They all have combos, combo finishers, air juggles, air recovery moves, and so on, though the use of all of these varies in power and effectiveness.
What's fascinating here is that one of Sora's Forms can be converted into a relatively basic enemy quite easily, apparently, without glitching out - the game knows how to fight with it. It makes me wonder if (outside of battle scripting) these different enemies all fundamentally have the same AI and just vary in strength based on their stats and the speed/hitstun/area of effect/etc. properties of their movesets.
It also makes me realize that KH2's essential combat system is already quite compatible with a KH multiplayer combat concept, and that it likely actually wouldn't be very hard at all to make the assorted Organization members (for example) into controllable characters.
Birth By Sleep's Versus mode is another step in that direction too.
It makes me wonder if KH3 will have any sort of online duel mode included in the game that'd let you play as the assorted Keyblade wielders in the game, as various Organization members, and so on.
It's worth noting that the anti-form AI in that video is from the Vexen fight, though your point still stands seeing as how many bosses are able to be converted into player characters.
I'm not sure if they'll put in a multiplayer though. KH3 is probably going to have a protracted development schedule and SE is going to want it out the door as soon as it feasibly can be.
badcrumble
Member
Ah, right - I forgot about the fact that Anti-form *does* fight you in that particular battle. My bad.
Demon Lizardman
Banned
Still think Frozen should be a world in the game. Elsa could be like a summon similar to Shiva and the snow troll would make a good boss. That or is could be like FF13's Shiva sisters and Anna and Elsa could combine to make a motorcycle. Snow would be proud.
Maybe Hans can send Sora to defeat Elsa on the belief that she's bringing the Heartless to the world, then fight the Ice Golem on the way there. Then at the last minute you find out that it's Hans' darkness bringing them there and he summons a giant Heartless as a final boss. The Yeti from the Matterhorn will be an optional boss.
badcrumble
Member
I'm pretty sure Elsa would really just be a guest character who used tons and tons of ice magic.
(Less sure about how she'd be as a physical attacker, heh, but there's precedent for ice-elemental physical attacks in the series)
Blood Diamonds
Banned
Would probably have something to do with that Prince guy summoning a heartless or something
No Square based worlds.
LEAVE. Don't come back until you've seen it, and then I expect you to beg my forgiveness for your transgression.
Princess and the Frog wasn't successful. It was one of the reasons Disney Traditional shut down.
badcrumble
Member
Another big thing about Frozen is that it actually makes the heart itself a huge part of the plot. Like you say, it's practically tailor-made.
Just looked on Wikipedia it made less than I realised. $300 million below both Brave and Tangled. Don't know if the DVD sales were better.
badcrumble
Member
By the way, this was posted about in the main Gaming forum, but apparently the next time we can expect news on FFXV/KH3 is at or around E3.
Hopefully we'll hear more about KH 2.5 well before then, though.
Hopefully we'll hear more about KH 2.5 well before then, though.
Napalm_Frank
Member
badcrumble
Member
Agreed that it was great.
BUT.
I'm not so sure I want KH3's intro to be so heavily in the "summarize all of the games so far" vein like the KH2 and KH
DD intros. (The KH:BBS intro, on the other hand, is pretty much just a much-less-interesting version of the KH2FM secret ending video, which is even worse).I guess it depends on how well it's done. I'd just like to see something new.
Agreed that it was great.
BUT.
I'm not so sure I want KH3's intro to be so heavily in the "summarize all of the games so far" vein like the KH2 and KH
I guess it depends on how well it's done. I'd just like to see something new.
I kinda meant in terms of the style and effort. I do like that the intros get more complex with each new release, gba and DS(not 3DS) games excluded
badcrumble
Member
Yeah, and they're all generally quite impressionist, which I enjoy. The style's pleasant and a great nostalgia-reward for people who have been playing the games since day 1.
badcrumble
Member
I find it interesting that there are Castle Oblivion-esque "white rooms" in Twilight Town's mansion and somewhere deep in Radiant Garden's basement. Not to mention that a great deal (if not the entirety) of The World that Never Was is very much in the same style. I wonder why Nomura loves that environment style so much and in what ways it'll end up appearing in KH3.
(also, lololol dull featureless environments in KH games!!!!!!!!)
(also, lololol dull featureless environments in KH games!!!!!!!!)
RGamer2009
Neo Member
Agreed that it was great.
BUT.
I'm not so sure I want KH3's intro to be so heavily in the "summarize all of the games so far" vein like the KH2 and KH
I guess it depends on how well it's done. I'd just like to see something new.
As long as the KH3 theme is something totally new instead of Sanctuary or the first game's song. I'm tired of hearing those two songs again and again.
badcrumble
Member
I'm sure it will be a new one. I can't recall if they've confirmed Utada or not but I'm sure it'll be a new theme regardless.
I love the look of Memory's Skyscraper, and just that whole fight between Xemnas and Sora in general. I'm also hoping that dual wielding becomes a regular ability in KH3 without the use of a drive form, kind of like how it was in 358/2 days with the zero gear.
badcrumble
Member
I think it's a bit more likely that Sora's going to play sort of like the Lingering Will, given that keyblade transformations will be more of a part of the system in KH3. The Lingering Will is capable of splitting its keyblade into two weapons, though.
(That'll be awfully interesting for KH3's designers to deal with once the aesthetics of the different keyblades/keychains come into effect, by the way).
As for specifically getting to equip two different keyblades with different properties and stats (like you could do with certain Drive Forms in KH2), whether that'd be desirable or not sort of comes down to finding out what Keyblades are like in KH3. They've had different sorts of properties and stats in each game so far. In KH2 it was a big deal because each Keyblade came with a specific passive ability. In KH3, though, that might be less of a factor.
WeaponKnight
Member
I want the keyblade abilities to return. It's much better than simply having +1 in STR/MAG each time.
Even better, make every keyblade like the weapons in FFX, without any stat upgrades and relying exclusively on abilities.
Even better, make every keyblade like the weapons in FFX, without any stat upgrades and relying exclusively on abilities.
badcrumble
Member
Eh, yes and no. Keyblades should be interesting but I didn't like having to equip a shittier weapon in order to have an additional Lucky Lucky ability (for example).
They've also all had things other than just STR/MAG. The most boring one was probably DDD's increased odds of Reality Shift (because lol reality shift). I enjoyed KH1's "deflect" stat, though, which came in addition to the str/mag/length/crit stats that exist in every KH game's weapons.
I loved loved loved the keyblade ability system in Re:Coded, though. That one was great fun and made each Keyblade almost feel like a different mode for Sora without any of the attached abilities feeling like things that Sora should have learned as part of his *base* set of abilities.
I feel sort of the same way about Keyblade-attached passive abilities in KH2 that I do about Dream Eater-attached passive abilities in DDD. Just let me learn that shit, thanks.
A Kefka fight would've fit into DDD so well.
badcrumble
Member
Sephiroth's had his several cameos! It's someone else's turn! Besides, doesn't Kefka look like someone who would command his own dream eaters?
badcrumble
Member
Kefka's actually fairly unlikely, to be honest, since (IIRC) the only FF cameo in Kingdom Hearts that wasn't originally designed by Tetsuya Nomura in the first place is Vivi (Setzer was designed by Nomura for FFVI).
I'm torn between saying that it's someone else's turn (I totally agree) and saying that a big Sephiroth superboss fight is KH tradition at this point.
I love Kefka and FFVI, but I still can't see that happening in KH. Kefka would probably kill his own Dream Eaters after like thirty seconds anyway, he's too unstable.
KH3 will probably wrap up his and Cloud's story, but I'd really like to see another FF villain in there, cameo or plotwise.
YOU KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS
Lightning returned, but the fans never did.
badcrumble
Member
YOU KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS
I wouldn't be remotely surprised to see Lightning show up in KH3, but I maintain that Noctis/Stella/some other FFXV character is more likely because Nomura and Nojima are much, much more closely involved in that project, whereas they had very little to do with FFXIII.
SoraanTribal
Member
badcrumble
Member
As for an FF villain to use as a *boss fight* specifically - Sephiroth's obviously a good fit in many ways gameplay-wise because he's so weapon-focused.
Obviously Dissidia's done a reasonably good deal to fill out prospective real-time combat styles for a number of FF heroes and villains, but that may not have fully entered into the fan consciousness, which matters for a series that is ultimately about fanservice.
But yeah. I could see Jecht being something possible to fight, or Genesis (lol), or Gilgamesh (who's obviously *very* weapon/melee-focused).
By the way -- I still wish that Dream Drop Distance's Traverse Town superboss fight had been Sho Minamimoto from TWEWY instead.