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[aravuus]

Wonder if Sora and Kairi'll actually end up together in KH3

Rather than story discussion, I'm most interested in speculating about how KH3's worlds and gameplay will be designed.

As long as the party and the world design are like they were in KH1 and 2, I'm happy with almost anything. None of the handheld games have felt like a real adventure so far due to either the small number of worlds, tiny worlds, badly designed worlds (fucking DDD), or combination of all. And party system is a must, with proper characters. Random monster allies are booooring.

 

[SoraanTribal]

Why yes, I do have a 3DS and a copy of Dream Drop Distance. Yes I do plan on playing it eventually, I wanna play BD first though. It warms my heart knowing that the story is crazy and entertaining as hell. The only other KH game I have not played is coded, and don't really want to play it.

Oh, that's good to hear. I hope you enjoy it! It's a fun game, but there are a few gameplay systems I didn't care for like the monster collecting and ability system. I swear, so many JRPGs this gen adopted the monster collecting aspect and it puzzles me (FFXIII-2, Ni No Kuni, Dream Drop Distance). I know Pokemon is popular, but I don't think adding those gameplay systems really brought in new people. *shrug*

The actual battle system is fun, and you'll feel right at home if you played BBS. It did add flowmotion which is fun to use, but way too overpowered most of the time. And it makes platforming progression a bit pointless. Oh yay, I got High Jump/etc... who cares? I used Flowmotion to get every chest in the area before I even got that! But still, it was fun to fly around the areas.

I think you'll find the story quite entertaining - especially the final world.

 

[Dereck]

Do Square characters age in Kingdom Hearts?

 

[Napalm_Frank]

I hope Dream Eaters are buried for good. I disliked 90% of the designs on them. Not least because of the colors. My least favourite enemy (and party...) type by far.

Then again perhaps I dislike them so much because most of the DE systems were garbage too.

 

[Malyse]

Do Square characters age in Kingdom Hearts?

Yes. Yuffie went from 16 to 17.

 

[Napalm_Frank]

Yes. Yuffie went from 16 to 17.

I know Disney characters are "timeless" but having the nephews in BBS was pretty stupid.

 

[Malyse]

I know Disney characters are "timeless" but having the nephews in BBS was pretty stupid.

Not necessarily. Time doesn't pass at the same rate in all realms. For example, Aqua and Ven haven't aged in ten years.

 

[Napalm_Frank]

Not necessarily. Time doesn't pass at the same rate in all realms. For example, Aqua and Ven haven't aged in ten years.

I can see it being the caae with Ven because of his condition more than the realm. With Aqua it certainly would be because of the realm.

 

[Malyse]

I can see it being the caae with Ven because of his condition more than the realm. With Aqua it certainly would be because of the realm.

Point still stands. Who knows what they were doing for the last ten years.

 

[Napalm_Frank]

Point still stands. Who knows what they were doing for the last ten years.

Must be the ice cream.

 

[Caladrius]

I'm hoping that the other Keyblade users are at least optional party members. It'd be nice to see a party setup reminiscent of FF6.

Must be the ice cream.

Gotta keep those Heartless busy somehow.

 

[Tenrius]

In the meantime, I defeated the Sith Lord, which means that I finished KH2. Overall it's pretty great, but it feels somewhat rushed after a certain point (the big Hollow Bastion battle). I appreciated the idea of returning to the Disney worlds, but the actual levels in the game felt somewhat pointless, with a lot of backtracking to what was already basically a corridor the first time around. As for the story stuff, I don't really mind the story itself, nor do I find it confusing — it's the presentation that is totally, well, goofy almost 100% of the time.

Oh, and I enjoyed this edition of Atlantica and the whole musical thing. You can now watch Triton stealthily dive into the sea as a bonus for reading my post!

 

[badcrumble]

As long as the party and the world design are like they were in KH1 and 2, I'm happy with almost anything. None of the handheld games have felt like a real adventure so far due to either the small number of worlds, tiny worlds, badly designed worlds (fucking DDD), or combination of all. And party system is a must, with proper characters. Random monster allies are booooring.

We're basically guaranteed some form of party system for KH3, and that should be the least of your worries.

I think that the world design in KH1 is not even remotely the same as the world design in KH2, though. It's one of the greatest differentiating factors between the two, really.

and ohhhh man this thread went full fanart-fanfic right around the same time that the FF OT did and it's really not okay with me

 

[R10Neymarfan]

I liked the world design in DDD. They just need to further head in that direction. Just made it more open and add some damn NPCs.

There should be no more excuses to most problems that were had with the PS2 graphics and engine systems. 8GB of GDDR5 is no joke.

 

[Trigger]

I've always loathed how depopulated the worlds felt in KH.

 

[SoraanTribal]

I've always loathed how depopulated the worlds felt in KH.

Nah man, it makes perfect sense for a prince of an entire kingdom to have a party/ball and only four or five people show up!

D:

In all seriousness though, I agree. It also annoyed me how the Coliseum never had a crowd and yet you could still hear the cheering, lol.

 

[Malyse]

I think will get something akin to a mix of BBS and 3D, almost GTA5 in presentation. You'll have multiple characters which you can switch off to at your leisure; each having their over mission objectives to accomplish. I'm supposing that Sora will mainly focus on protecting worlds while Riku will lone wolf into the Realm of Darkness to find Aqua. Kairi would prolly make a good liaison for gathering the other lights.

 

[Vashetti]

I know the idea of 1.5/2.5 HD was to bring the series back to consoles, but I really wish they did these for the Vita too, or at least supported Remote Play.

Despite what I told myself prior to the PS4 launch, setting up the PS3 is arduous nowadays. I much prefer playing RPGs on a handheld.

 

[R10Neymarfan]

I would imagine a PS4 version will be inevitable. ( I keep on calling it time and time again). That's when you'll get your Vita version (well through remote play).

 

[Malyse]

I know the idea of 1.5/2.5 HD was to bring the series back to consoles, but I really wish they did these for the Vita too, or at least supported Remote Play.

Despite what I told myself prior to the PS4 launch, setting up the PS3 is arduous nowadays. I much prefer playing RPGs on a handheld.

It would be a mess.

 

[aravuus]

We're basically guaranteed some form of party system for KH3, and that should be the least of your worries.

I think that the world design in KH1 is not even remotely the same as the world design in KH2, though. It's one of the greatest differentiating factors between the two, really.

Ah yeah, I didn't mean it that way. KH1 has very maze-like worlds whereas KH2 has very linear worlds. I'm also one of the rare people who prefer the more linear ones.

I meant the overall feeling they give you, I guess. Can't really come up with anything better. KH1 and 2 felt like grand adventures, whereas Days, DDD, and CoM didn't. Dunno about BBS, didn't get far into it when I played it last year.

 

[Caladrius]

I meant the overall feeling they give you, I guess. Can't really come up with anything better. KH1 and 2 felt like grand adventures, whereas Days, DDD, and CoM didn't. Dunno about BBS, didn't get far into it when I played it last year.

BBS gives more of the impression of a desperate struggle as opposed to an adventure. The conflict starts hot and early and most of the game is spent trying to get down to business as opposed to getting out and seeing the world.

Considering the overall tone of the game I think it works well, though I can see why someone who preferred the adventurous approach of the earlier games might be put off by it.

 

[Cat]

A KH community thread, yay, just what I needed and have been looking for.

I'm playing Kingdom Hearts Final Mix (1.5) on Proud and going to be battling posessed-Riku soon. I normally just grind like no tomorrow so fare OK on the harder stuff in Normal mode, but I have not been grinding because I'd like to finish this run quickly if possible. I've never played Proud Mode until now (not as bad/scary as I thought so far - harder yes but I've made it this far). I'll grind if I have to. Anyway, point being, does anyone have any tips? I'm at like a low level 40 and chose shield so have Leaf Bracer and Second Chance by this point.

 

[WeaponKnight]

You won't be able to use the Equip Olympia And Mash X To Win strategy, so I advise the Equip Olympia And Don't Be Reckless instead.

 

[Malyse]

50% of Xemnas actions were subconscious behaviour orchestrated by Terra in a desperate attempt to find and reunite with his friends.

Terra's memories would often meddle with Xemnas’ motives and cause him to temporarily lose sight of his goals, made even worse by the presence of a Ven-lookalike (Who, according to Kingdom Hearts Ultimania also serves as vessel for Ven’s heart, to top it off.), so it’s not that far fetched to assume that all the things that don’t make sense in context with Xehanort’s motives were the result of Xemnas following urges from Terra’s memories within him. He also personally came down to Twilight Town to pick up Roxas upon birth and name him. Why did he look so satisfied, however, upon saying “A New You”? Possibly he believed simply by giving the boy a different name, he could cut his associations between him and Ventus, an attempt that ultimately fails when Roxas develops a personality a lot more reminiscent of Ventus’ than of Sora’s. Xehanort’s and Terra’s motive were in constant war within Xemnas and Roxas unwittingly made it even worse, cause Xemnas to end up following actions to two different ends which conflicted.

Coming to visit Roxas when he’s fallen unconscious? Most likely Terra’s doing. Talking to Aqua’s discarded armor? Clearly Terra. Searching the Chamber of Waking? Terra, trying to find Ventus. Showing disdain upon being called “Xehanort” by Sora? Terra. Asking Roxas if he remembers his “true name” (Note that, interestingly, he said “True name” not “Old name”)? Terra, hoping that Roxas would reply “Ventus”, rather than “Sora”. He didn’t, unfortunately. (Maybe getting the correct answer would have caused a strong enough reaction to overthrow Xehanort’s motives for good, though that is just speculation.)

Finally… Xemnas, trying to rip out Sora’s Heart during the final boss fight against him, asking if he “Could spare a heart”. Remember, the Rip-Out Move is one of the most time consuming ones Xemnas has, it leaves him fairly vulnerable to Riku’s attacks and only takes out Sora, as opposed to him & Riku. Why would Xemnas do that? Did he want Sora’s Heart? It makes more sense if you remember that the heart that Xemnas is trying to extract could just as well be… Ventus’. That move is an attempt of Xemnas to channel Terra’s despair and stubborn desire to regain his friends and misguide it in a way that will ultimately benefit the MX’ ideals: “Here… Here’s your friend. Come and get him. You just need to crack that shell open and destroy it. Come, we will work together and free him from that shell…” Sounds like something MX would do to trick Terra, doesn’t it?

 

[badcrumble]

Ah yeah, I didn't mean it that way. KH1 has very maze-like worlds whereas KH2 has very linear worlds. I'm also one of the rare people who prefer the more linear ones.

I meant the overall feeling they give you, I guess. Can't really come up with anything better. KH1 and 2 felt like grand adventures, whereas Days, DDD, and CoM didn't. Dunno about BBS, didn't get far into it when I played it last year.

BBS's levels are reasonably linear, but I think the level design is really the best in the series when it comes to understanding that these are action games and that battles should happen in arenas that enhance the flow of battle rather than getting in the way of it.

 

[badcrumble]

A proposal, should FlowMotion ever happen in the series again:

There should be something like a FlowMotion bar, with a certain maximum, and always starting at zero. You'd basically need to chain together a certain amount of FlowMotion movements (and once the bar hit its relatively low maximum - think 7 moves per chain at most - you'd no longer be able to chain any new ones, so no more jump-chaining your way through platforming sections of the game). As soon as you touch the ground again, the bar resets to zero; but the higher the chain you successfully build, the more powerful your finishing attack would be.

Opening up new FlowMotion moves and increasing the size of your chain bar (from 3 to 7, let's say) as you accrue Bonus Levels or otherwise make progress through the story would be a reasonable thing as well, though not strictly necessary (IMO).

FlowMotion's big disadvantage in DDD (which is only really an issue on higher difficulty levels) is that you can't cancel or chain your way out of FlowMotion attacks, unlike nearly every other attack in the game - they make you dangerously vulnerable. I don't know whether that should be retained or not.

The effect of this, though, would be to retain *some* amount of always-accessible FlowMotion so you could rail-grind through some portions of levels and effectively keep Sora's traversal permanently enhanced, while fixing the problem of FlowMotion *breaking* level design by letting you basically fly anywhere in the level at any time as you pretty much can in DDD. It'd also help to fix the combat issues with FlowMotion spamming if you actually needed to chain together a reasonably skillful (and time-consuming) set of moves in order to get real significant damage out of it. For example, I'm thinking that DDD's simple wall-hop, jump upward, and attack move would do very very little damage since you'd only have completed a series of two moves.

Thoughts? (I know they've said Attraction Flow is the next form of this, even though it looks closer to Reality Shift than FlowMotion).

 

[Cat]

You won't be able to use the Equip Olympia And Mash X To Win strategy, so I advise the Equip Olympia And Don't Be Reckless instead.

Well, I don't have Olympia and will get it if I feel I really need to but since I got him down to a SLIVER of health before dying on my last attempt just now, I'm pretty sure I can manage. Will have to try again later. SO SO close.

 

[WeaponKnight]

A proposal, should FlowMotion ever happen in the series again:

Fixing the infinite wall jump problem alone would already be a huge improvement.

IMO instead of an instantly recharging bar, they could make it spend Drive when you flow. Keep it powerful but you can only use it a few times, and only during battle.

 

[Caladrius]

Fixing the infinite wall jump problem alone would already be a huge improvement.

IMO instead of an instantly recharging bar, they could make it spend Drive when you flow. Keep it powerful but you can only use it a few times, and only during battle.

That basically rips out any platforming potential though, which was half the point.

I think the fast recharging bar idea is preferable since you can still make level designs that make use of it without completely breaking any sense of character mobility progression. Just make the bar not recharge while performing maneuvers and make the distances that need to be crossed too much without the advanced abilities like superglide.Or alternatively flowmotion moves and capacity could be unlocked as you progress through bosses and whatnot.

Flowmotion shouldn't have had the capabilities it did until the endgame. That was "Super Metroid Space Jump" style broken, only without the excuse of being unlocked towards the end of the game and having restrictions.

 

[badcrumble]

That basically rips out any platforming potential though, which was half the point.

I think the fast recharging bar idea is preferable since you can still make level designs that make use of it without completely breaking any sense of character mobility progression. Just make the bar not recharge while performing maneuvers and make the distances that need to be crossed too much without the advanced abilities like superglide.Or alternatively flowmotion moves and capacity could be unlocked as you progress through bosses and whatnot.

Flowmotion shouldn't have had the capabilities it did until the endgame. That was "Super Metroid Space Jump" style broken, only without the excuse of being unlocked towards the end of the game and having restrictions.

Yeah, this. I think it's a tool that should always be available but should have been severely nerfed. Chaining together a bunch of FlowMotion moves should be rewarding rather than gamebreaking.

 

[Napalm_Frank]

Dreamdrop banned? I wonder if it is perma...

 

[Seda]

Dreamdrop banned? I wonder if it is perma...

He'll be back. (I didn't ban him)

 

[aravuus]

Huh, wonder how he got banned. He wasn't someone I was expecting to get banned.

e: nvm, i think i know why. that was unexpected lol

That basically rips out any platforming potential though, which was half the point.

And that destroyed DDD's level design. I don't ever want another world that has massive towers just because you can climb them, it was horrible.

 

[WeaponKnight]

He'll be back. (I didn't ban him)

I tought he was a junior. Is this one of those rare cases?

And that destroyed DDD's level design. I don't ever want another world that has massive towers just because you can climb them, it was horrible.

Yeah, I preffer a more contained level design. KH2's Cave of Remembrance was perfect using all of Sora's movement abilities.

 

[Seda]

I tought he was a junior. Is this one of those rare cases?

Either the mod didn't realize that or was being nice.

 

[Caladrius]

And that destroyed DDD's level design. I don't ever want another world that has massive towers just because you can climb them, it was horrible.

The level designs were like that because they didn't think to give flowmotion limitations and instead tried to milk the mechanic as opposed to trying to make it fit in with the rest of the game or making every part of the level design meaningful.

The only real differences between flowmotion moves and the Drive form mobility skills from 2 are that the latter can't be chained indefinitely and aren't given to you from the start. If it had limitations they would have to actually design the levels around the limitations instead of just going bug-crazy with the scale.

3D in general feels like what happens when a developer has plenty of ideas but doesn't have a clear idea as to how everything is going to tie together.

 

[badcrumble]

The level designs were like that because they didn't think to give flowmotion limitations and instead tried to milk the mechanic as opposed to trying to make it fit in with the rest of the game or making every part of the level design meaningful.

The only real differences between flowmotion moves and the Drive form mobility skills from 2 is that the latter can't be chained indefinitely and aren't given to you from the start. If it had limitations they would have to actually design the levels around the limitations instead of just going bug-crazy with the scale.

3D in general feels like what happens when a developer has plenty of ideas but doesn't have a clear idea as to how everything is going to tie together.

3D is also weird in that some areas were clearly designed pre-FlowMotion (as in, chest placement with valuable items that ought to require High Jump or Glide or whatever to get to but can be instantly reached very easily) and some areas were clearly designed post-FlowMotion (like the skyscraper in TWTNW that *requires* you to jump-chain dozens of times to reach its summit).

There are interviews making it kinda clear that Team Osaka wasn't a huge fan of FlowMotion but Nomura was very adamant about pushing it in the game. Sigh.

 

[Makoto Yuki]

Can someone give me a quick break down of Coded/Re:Coded's story? I assumed it was just a phone game, apparently it fits into the story somehow.

 

[Box of Bunnies]

Can someone give me a quick break down of Coded/Re:Coded's story? I assumed it was just a phone game, apparently it fits into the story somehow.

Nothing of importance happens then at the end Mickey writes to Sora to tell him that he has to save the Birth by Sleep pals (as seen at the end of KH2). Yen Sid reveals that the destruction of both his Heartless and Nobody means that the true Xehanort will return and Sora and Riku should take the Mark of Mastery in preparation for that event (leading into Dream Drop Distance).

 

[Makoto Yuki]

Nothing of importance happens then at the end Mickey writes to Sora to tell him that he has to save the Birth by Sleep pals (as seen at the end of KH2). Yen Sid reveals that the destruction of both his Heartless and Nobody means that the true Xehanort will return and Sora and Riku should take the Mark of Mastery in preparation for that event (leading into Dream Drop Distance).

Laaammmmmmmmme, did there have to be an entire game for that, come on now. I love you Kingdom Hearts but seriously a whole game o_o...

 

[Caladrius]

Laaammmmmmmmme, did there have to be an entire game for that, come on now. I love you Kingdom Hearts but seriously a whole game o_o...

Money, dear boy.

The original game came out before Birth by Sleep or Days, so the information was new at the time, if nothing else.

Oh yeah who wants to bet on whether or not the Data people show up again.

Anyone?

 

[badcrumble]

That's why it's so weird that the Re:Coded cutscenes are included in KH 2.5 - they're totally inconsequential and effectively rendered obsolete by KHDD.

 

[Makoto Yuki]

Money indeed, still pretty dumb though.

Data people? It's Kingdom Hearts, of course they will show up (doesn't know who data people are)

How about the chances we see some Pixar love, I want to go to space with Wall-E as Robo Sora Donald and Goofy.

Edit:

That's why it's so weird that the Re:Coded cutscenes are included in KH 2.5 - they're totally inconsequential and effectively rendered obsolete by KHDD.

I completely forgot they are putting that in there, I would have just been happy with KH II FM and KH BBS HD. Well, at least now I can see the silliness first hand, instead of having to play it.

 

[ZenaxPure]

I completely forgot they are putting that in there, I would have just been happy with KH II FM and KH BBS HD. Well, at least now I can see the silliness first hand, instead of having to play it.

Honestly kind of bums me out because that is a really fun game with the one drawback of horrible, horrible, horrrrrible controls. Would be nice to play it with a real control scheme.

 

[Caladrius]

Money indeed, still pretty dumb though.

Data people? It's Kingdom Hearts, of course they will show up (doesn't know who data people are)

I completely forgot they are putting that in there, I would have just been happy with KH II FM and KH BBS HD. Well, at least now I can see the silliness first hand, instead of having to play it.

I'm talking about the Data replicas that feature throughout the game.

The gameplay is generally the part that receives the most praise (at least for the remake). I though it was extremely hit-and-miss. The stat matrix and overclock gauges were good, the dungeons (and the platforming) and needless command levels bug me.
Seeing the story by itself is just going to reinforce how vapid it is.

 

[Makoto Yuki]

Does it control like days? After beating that I don't really want to play KH with a D-pad ever again.

 

[Caladrius]

Does it control like days? After beating that I don't really want to play KH with a D-pad ever again.

Yes.

The semifinal level of coded, good lord.

I will be content to never ever have to play that level again.

"Jump across 20 meter-wide blocks or start it over."

Kingdom Hearts games shouldn't feel like (mandatory) torture.

 

[ZenaxPure]

The growth command matrix and overclock gauges were good, the dungeons (and the platforming) and needless command levels bug me.
Seeing the story by itself is just going to reinforce how vapid it is.

Platforming would have been fine with real controls! Maybe not fun, but, at least not annoying. I actually enjoyed the dungeon crawl-like aspect of it since I enjoy that combat (even when handicapped with bad controls) and that was just a way to get a lot of it at once.

And no, it controls far worse than Days. It has the command deck system like BBS and 3D but since you only have the d-pad you have to navigate your commands with fucking finger acrobatics. I think the d-pad movement felt a bit better than Days, but, trying to cram the core BBS/3D combat system onto something with 1 d-pad was rough.

It's all a shame too since they actually had some commands in the game that was not in 3D or BBS that I found fun to use. Game deserved better than it got.

 

[Caladrius]

I meant stat matrix, oopsie.

Platforming would have been fine with real controls! Maybe not fun, but, at least not annoying. I actually enjoyed the dungeon crawl-like aspect of it since I enjoy that combat (even when handicapped with bad controls) and that was just a way to get a lot of it at once.

And no, it controls far worse than Days. It has the command deck system like BBS and 3D but since you only have the d-pad you have to navigate your commands with fucking finger acrobatics. I think the d-pad movement felt a bit better than Days, but, trying to cram the core BBS/3D combat system onto something with 1 d-pad was rough.

It's all a shame too since they actually had some commands in the game that was not in 3D or BBS that I found fun to use. Game deserved better than it got.

The game really does suffer from doing too much on a platform not built for it. I think it might have been tolerable for me if they had been able to make it on with something that actually had a second stick.