Dreams-Visions
Member
well, the business isn't going to cut off its nose to spite its face.Copernicus said:
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Kobe Bryant slinging homophobic slur during nationally televised NBA game
- Thread starter Aruarian Reflection
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Londa said:
Using the word 'crying' unfairly diminishes the legitimacy of their offence. They are upset, it's an upsetting slur. Do not demean them by saying their complaints amount to 'crying'.
This is ridiculous. There are gay rich people, and there are poor gay people. There are people on this very board who have been beat because they like boys over girls. Thrown out of their homes, ostracized, tormented on a -daily- basis. To cover your ears and eyes and pretend that because you don't see it, it doesn't exist? Where would the black movement be if there were no sympathetic white people, and instead everyone held your attitude?
Your support is not exclusive, you do not have to simply support one group or the other. If you want to support homosexuals and their plight for equality, you can do as little as have a supportive attitude. Although who knows, maybe for you this is an endeavor in itself.
enzom21 said:
I wouldn't ever use the word "nigger" it's a slur, and there's too much history there. I'll let Mercury Fred speak for himself regarding the circumstances of that incident but it's something that should never be used.
I can't speak for everyone in the gay community but I know there was a gaffer that used it towards blacks after prop 8 passed on GAF and he was promptly perma'ed, as he should be.
Copernicus - that's hardly proof positive.
enzom21 said:
To avoid using the plight of black people, let me instead turn to Muslims. Do you feel that it is a healthy attitude to have, to diminish your support for Muslims who are abused because of their religion, because there are Muslim terrorists? Because it sounds like you feel the gay community doesn't deserve your support because there are racist gay people.
ZephyrFate
Banned
Londa said:
Why the hell does faggot lose its sharpness when applied to a straight person? It's a terrible word in general.
Just because you haven't seen gay injustice doesn't mean there aren't volumes of news stories, autobiographies, TV shows and films about the fact that gay people have it really fucking rough all over. Gay people are beheaded in the Middle East, gay people are raped and lynched in the US; we can only get married in like, what, eight countries? Out of close to a hundred?
I'm glad you care so little about people's struggles if they aren't directly happening to you or are in front of your eyes. Ignorance is truly a curse.
enzom21: There's something to be said of maturity to not take a single person or a few members of a community and extrapolate it to all people in that community. The fact you gave up your support because a few gay people called you a nigger or because Mercury Fred is rather extreme means you really didn't have much faith in the cause to begin with. There are assholes in all causes, not everyone is a good person. But that doesn't mean you are correct, right, or even truthful in giving up or losing support in a cause just because you encountered a few assholes (this goes beyond their sexuality, by the way).
I never said anything about diminishing my support for the gay community... I said I the joining arms nonsense was bullshit. I still support gay marriage and gay adoption and everything else. People in this thread love to put words into other people's mouths and what's up with all of the personal attacks against Londa?Kinitari said:
Edit:
See this is the bullshit that I am talking about.ZephyrFate said:
enzom21 said:
Sorry, when you said "joining arms was bullshit" and then stated examples of homosexuals being racist, that's just the conclusion I came to.
But my point still stands, if anything you support my position - it's important to STILL support minorities, even when some of those minorities don't deserve it. We should continue to join arms.
And Londa said some pretty ignorant things, I normally am very careful about saying stuff like that, but straight up, her last few posts were indefensible.
ZephyrFate
Banned
Except you're contradicting yourself by saying 'joining arms' is bullshit when you still support gay rights. So, what, you just sit there and support gays but you do absolutely nothing?enzom21 said:
What kind of support is that?
Gaborn said:
You do have a point, he spends like three hours watching muscular athletes run back and forth, all sweaty and drippy. Watching their every movement, waiting to find faults. He always handling their balls every few minutes, though never crossing the line. Controlling every new turn.
ZephyrFate
Banned
ANYONE can call a black person a nigger. Just because a couple gay guys did doesn't mean it's suddenly high time to run away and not join arms.enzom21 said:
Letting one person cast a judgment on a bunch of people is folly. If a black guy called me a faggot I'm not going to suddenly turn racist and hate black people because him calling me a faggot has nothing to do with him being black.
You're arguing about something I am not disagreeing with you on. My point is you can't expect help from the black community when people from the gay community are calling people niggers and barely a peep is made to condemn such actions. Once again I am not talking about myself I am talking about people who are not wiling to support any gay causes based on the actions of some of the people in the gay community.ZephyrFate said:
ZephyrFate
Banned
While I'm not defending racist actions, I can see why gay people are not willing to be polite or rational towards black people considering the incredible amount that showed up to vote against gay marriage in California. This was something Gaborn brought up but apparently was called a racist for back during that time, so I'm not going to continue any discussion over it.
It's understandable for there to be anger, but it was not understandable why gays attacked blacks in a racist way over it.
It's understandable for there to be anger, but it was not understandable why gays attacked blacks in a racist way over it.
Half and half
Member
All the more reason to leave race out of it and instead appeal to people's sense of humanity and justice instead.
ZephyrFate
Banned
Heaven forbid we taint race with something like sexuality, amirite? This is getting old hat now. You're going way past beating a dead horse.
Especially considering sexuality transcends race, gender, political status, creed, religion, et. al.
Especially considering sexuality transcends race, gender, political status, creed, religion, et. al.
The strangest part of it all was blacks being singled out when we are less than 7% of the population and if black people had come out in full force and voted no on Prop 8 it still would have passed. Yet, we didn't hear any racial slurs being hurled at the large Latino community that voted for it. I felt one of the reasons for the anger toward the black community was based on a feeling that the gay community helped get Obama elected and how dare these black people not support us.ZephyrFate said:
But really, the only reason I brought the whole Prop 8 thing up was because of Mercury Fred's constant nonsense in this thread and others when it comes to black people and him expecting people to join in arms with him after some of the shit he has said.
Dark Octave
Banned
Oh his name is Bennie.Gaborn said:
Koby saying "Bennie" has has me confused for days.
Bennie..."Let's name our son Bennie!" Who in their right minds would do that?
ionicbluebird
Member
Umm, I'm angry. Shit's been going on way too long.Jeff Albertson said:
Devolution
Member
Londa said:
I'm white straight and agnostic, which means I can pretend like all kinds of racism, bigotry and discrimination along religious lines doesn't exist. I guess I can double the blinders (according to your shitty logic) since I know "well off" blacks, asians, and latinos living in a liberal suburb and all. It takes actively listening to oppressed groups to understand what they experience if you don't see it first hand.
I know I won't get through to you, since for whatever reason you don't think minorities have an obligation to at least acknowledge each other's struggles against the status quo. But I do have a question, what did you expect to accomplish with bullshit like that of above?
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
Gaborn said:
The sadness of being a Muslim nowadays....
(Anyway, I haven't had the chance to read the thread, but 47 pages? O_O I guess we're not talking about Kobe anymore, aren't we...?
Everyone has prejudices under the surface that would have their lives absolutely destroyed if they were made public, or in the very least banned from these forums. These are things that are out of their control in a similar way that they can't control their sexuality, their favorite color or their favorite food.
That's everyone, whether they dislike gays, whites, blacks, tall people, women; even people that fight for the rights of these groups may have discriminatory feelings against them on the inside.
So I think what it boils down to is how you act. I wouldn't hold it against a closet racist that treated those of said races with respect and equality. How you act around towards others is the only thing that really can be held against someone, in my opinion.
What Bryant said in this instance clearly wasn't meant to be heard, even by the ref himself, and I don't consider saying something in private as any different to thinking it as far as judging someone's character.
However, the bottom line is that it was heard, even if unintentionally, so now that the damage has been done it's on Kobe to make up for it, and that will the actual judge of his character (at least from this limited perspective, obviously him perpetuating homophobic slurs amongst his friends/family is possible, but conclusions like that would come down to baseless speculation on our part).
Of course it's entirely possible that he has no ill will against gays and was just saying something taboo to relieve his anger, similar to punching a pillow, which as long as intended to be private has the same rules as above in my mind.
He is definitely guilty of demonstrating a lack of sense though. He should know that the camera's focus on him more than anything else.
That's everyone, whether they dislike gays, whites, blacks, tall people, women; even people that fight for the rights of these groups may have discriminatory feelings against them on the inside.
So I think what it boils down to is how you act. I wouldn't hold it against a closet racist that treated those of said races with respect and equality. How you act around towards others is the only thing that really can be held against someone, in my opinion.
What Bryant said in this instance clearly wasn't meant to be heard, even by the ref himself, and I don't consider saying something in private as any different to thinking it as far as judging someone's character.
However, the bottom line is that it was heard, even if unintentionally, so now that the damage has been done it's on Kobe to make up for it, and that will the actual judge of his character (at least from this limited perspective, obviously him perpetuating homophobic slurs amongst his friends/family is possible, but conclusions like that would come down to baseless speculation on our part).
Of course it's entirely possible that he has no ill will against gays and was just saying something taboo to relieve his anger, similar to punching a pillow, which as long as intended to be private has the same rules as above in my mind.
He is definitely guilty of demonstrating a lack of sense though. He should know that the camera's focus on him more than anything else.
Lol, probably not. Because if it was just about Kobe it'd just come down to an athlete saying dumb shit in the heat of the moment, which happens every game.Laughing Banana said:The sadness of being a Muslim nowadays....
Anyway, I haven't had the chance to read the thread, but 47 pages? O_O I guess we're not talking about Kobe anymore, aren't we...?
Mercury Fred
Banned
Wow, what an awful, small-minded and selfish person you are.Londa said:
Unbelievable. I don't think some of you know how common that word is as a casual insult. I'm not saying it's right, it just is...
That said, I now see where Stern was coming from with his 100k fine. I thought it was excessive but he knew he had to get out in front of this cos some of the gay-rights groups are trying their best not to accept multiple apologies from a guy who has zero history of bigotry and was clearly using the term as slang.
I guess interest groups will use anything to further their agenda but it just seems like overkill to keep piling on a guy for swearing after he's apologized. Every other article/editorial I read now is painting him as some crazy homophobe lol
For the two that are digging in the thread for flame bate you are on my ignore list. For personally attacking me. Goes so show how much the internet give people courage. I have the right to pick and choose what I believe in. I don't care how you feel about that either. Thats why you will be talking to the air.
I have never and still don't say that gays do not have it bad. Both of you continue to lie and put words into many of mines and others comments. So now you are nothing to me. But wait, you never were.
I have never and still don't say that gays do not have it bad. Both of you continue to lie and put words into many of mines and others comments. So now you are nothing to me. But wait, you never were.
Londa, I wont tell you to stay or go, but I don't think this thread is for you. You're not saying anything. Nobody knows what your position is, nobody knows what you are mad at, nobody knows and thus people are trying to extrapolate from your vague posts. I've made a lot of posts aimed at you, trying to understand a -little- of what your point is, and you've ignored pretty much every single one. If you want people to stop 'lying' about you, why don't you start clarifying your position? Or if you don't care what we think, if you don't want to discuss any of this with us, then why randomly pop in and drop the posts you have been dropping? If you want to discuss, please! Please discuss, I can't speak for everyone else, but I will try my hardest to be civil.
esquire said:
We can guess about the sincerity (although I think that's an exercise in futility) - but because of all this, the lakers are going to work with a gay rights organization to help promote a better... attitude when it comes to homosexuals.
Does this Lebron fellow also play on the Los Angelas Lakers Team?
Kinitari said:
My only point was gay rights doesn't equal black civil rights movement and I get tired of it being brought up in every thread.
And while you was aiming those comments at me, I was traveling from work to home. When I got back home, I saw that your comments now became personal attacks, but I decided to give you a chance to see if you will continue on that route, until then I ignored you on purpose.
I will say that I only agree with 30% of what you said in this entire thread. But you don't fabricate information to support your opinion. So I have no issues with you. I have been doing my homework. But I took a break to add people to my ignore list.
The others do nothing but troll, but then get mad when I call them out.
Soloist said:
I was talking about what I have witnessed first hand. Not what happens outside of what I have witnessed.
Now go back 1 or two pages and you will see me constantly saying I acknowledge that gays have it bad. I think I have said that like 12 times now.
Londa said:
Sorry, just wanted you to clarify. Gay injustice is not easy to notice because homosexuality doesn't have a physical indicator and there's a lot of easy to miss small problem that accumulate. One injustice that bothers me in particular is the relatively high rate of suicide attempts by LGBT teenagers.
Londa said:
There was one person who used the word 'equal' as far as I know, and I am pretty sure even he went back and said "Okay maybe not equal, but it shouldn't be something that is measured!" - which, maybe isn't the response you were looking for, but it was something.
Look, Londa - I understand the struggle for civil equality is an important one. To be honest, even as a 'black' man, it's not something I can even relate too that much, because I have never in my life felt as though my skin colour has held me back - I am lucky I guess. But I can't help but feel that in situations like these, it's important to look back and remember the struggles of other people, and unfortunately the most recent and probably the most monumental struggle of recent history for civil liberties in North America was the struggle for black people. So it gets brought up... a lot. Maybe sometimes unnecessarily, maybe sometimes incorrectly - but when it comes to the struggles of other minorities in North America, I think it's one of the most important reminders and lessons we have at hand.
If I might ask, what is it that you've agreed with, and what is it that you haven't agreed with? To make it easier, I'll simplify my points into a few key arguments, easy to digest and easy to respond to.
1. The use of the word Faggot cannot be divorced from it's negative association with homosexuals. I understand that some people use it in 'innocence' - but even with their intentions in the 'right place' (I say this in quotes, because it is still used as an insult) it brings up unpleasant feelings in homosexuals when they hear it. They remember being beat while having that word shouted at them, they remember being spit at, kicked out of their homes, ostracised and attacked even by politicians. Even if you say that people who use that word don't mean anything by it, if these people have empathy and understanding in their heart, they would try to avoid using that word in the future.
2. Civil rights struggles for women, black people, latinos, gay people, japanese people - all these people... they are linked. Maybe not intricately, maybe not clearly and maybe sometimes there are holes and dividing lines - but they all want the same thing, equality. When I hear stories about Japanese people who rally with Muslims, some old enough to remember the days they were ostracised by the country - it touches my heart. When I see people work together from vastly different backgrounds, finding the common noble ground of equality and pushing together with their collective might to make a change, it warms me. This is what I was hoping to accomplish by bringing up the struggles of blacks in North America. I can't speak for everyone else, but more than anything else I was pushing for solidarity, for empathy and understanding. Maybe I was naiive, maybe over optimistic.
And for what it's worth, I regret snapping at you earlier. Normally I pride myself in at least attempting to keep my cool, but from some of your posts... I assumed you were saying something that I fundamentally did not agree with, in the core of my being. And it surprised me how much that upset me.
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