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[Kinitari]

Pretty sure he never took his statement back.

I read back, and no - not directly at least. The most he said was "Yeah they had it, and continue to have it real bad, and I don't understand why it's so weird for me to compare them, this isn't a contest"

-

I think maybe his heart was roughly in the right place, but hopefully he knows better now - not to 'equate' the two struggles. That's an extremely... combustive position.

No, Lebron James took his talents to South Beach. Plays for the Miami Heat and before this incident was a clear front runner for most hated man in the NBA.

Is he the one in the GIF where he throws all his tear away clothing on the floor, or in the face of that kid who's job was to pick it up? Because I don't know who that is, but I hate him the most.

 

[Dresden]

Is he the one in the GIF where he throws all his tear away clothing on the floor, or in the face of that kid who's job was to pick it up? Because I don't know who that is, but I hate him the most.

Dude tossing his clothing away from the kid trying to pick it up? That's him.

That or the roid-chins.

 

[Aruarian Reflection]

Is he the one in the GIF where he throws all his tear away clothing on the floor, or in the face of that kid who's job was to pick it up? Because I don't know who that is, but I hate him the most.

How is that any different from Kobe slamming his towel on the floor in front of the towel boy and making him pick it up? (video in OP)

 

[numble]

How is that any different from Kobe slamming his towel on the floor in front of the towel boy and making him pick it up? (video in OP)

It's different than:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUQi1gh9unM

 

[Kinitari]

Dude tossing his clothing away from the kid trying to pick it up? That's him.

That or the roid-chins.

How is that any different from Kobe slamming his towel on the floor in front of the towel boy and making him pick it up? (video in OP)

I didn't see the video - but damn. I guess there is some sort of... ego boost, to having some poor college kid pick up the shit you throw on the floor? I don't get it. Aw well, hopefully those kids are paid well.

Edit: Why did he punch that dude so hard! I don't even get that. That's like... highschool bully grade assholery.

 

[travisbickle]

Londa,

Post WWII, gay people were chemically castrated!! The kind of shit you only think Evil Nazis did.

Alan Turing, the man who arguebly won WWII by breaking the Enigma code, after being found out as homosexual was given the choice between a prison term or chemical castration! He chose chemical castration, he later killed himself due to depression.

He was British, it was the British government who prosecuted him, and it was them who gave him the choice. That is 20th century gay history.

And my issue is you, along with other people, seem to equate 20th century gay issues with not being able to marry, and how gay people benefit from the ability to "hide" their homosexuality.

 

[numble]

I didn't see the video - but damn. I guess there is some sort of... ego boost, to having some poor college kid pick up the shit you throw on the floor? I don't get it. Aw well, hopefully those kids are paid well.

Edit: Why did he punch that dude so hard! I don't even get that. That's like... highschool bully grade assholery.

He punched the chair and threw the towel that he sat on. The towel guy put the towel back on the floor and Kobe picked it up off the floor.

 

[Londa]

Londa,

Post WWII, gay people were chemically castrated!! The kind of shit you only think Evil Nazis did.

Alan Turing, the man who arguebly won WWII by breaking the Enigma code, after being found out as homosexual was given the choice between a prison term or chemical castration! He chose chemical castration, he later killed himself due to depression.

He was British, it was the British government who prosecuted him, and it was them who gave him the choice. That is 20th century gay history.

And my issue is you, along with other people, seem to equate 20th century gay issues with not being able to marry, and how gay people benefit from the ability to "hide" their homosexuality.

And? During slavery both female and males where castrated and their gentiles where stored in pickle jars. Cats were sown into slaves bodies so they they could see how long it would take for the cat to claw its way out.

Stop trying to compare is all I'm saying. I never belittled anyone else's struggles.

 

[Dead Man]

And? During slavery both female and males where castrated and their gentiles where stored in pickle jars. Cats were sown into slaves bodies so they they could see how long it would take for the cat to claw its way out.

Stop trying to compare is all I'm saying. I never belittled anyone else's struggles.

I think responses like 'And?' are not helping your cause. I believe the intent was to point out some pretty horrible shit that has happened in recent history that is not just trying to get marriage rights so you may have a greater understanding of the ways in which some gay people face persecution in the hope that you might empathise a little bit. You do seem unable to acknowledge any of the struggles of gay people without pointing to something worse that happened to black people. I don't know, you're not really contributing to any discussion at the moment.

Maybe look at Kinitari's great post addressed to you up the page a little bit and respond to that?

 

[Gaborn]

And? During slavery both female and males where castrated and their gentiles where stored in pickle jars. Cats were sown into slaves bodies so they they could see how long it would take for the cat to claw its way out.

Stop trying to compare is all I'm saying. I never belittled anyone else's struggles.

Well, at least you edited your post to say "doesn't" so this makes sense again. Unfortunately he didn't mention blacks at all. YOU are trying to compare the black civil rights movement and say that blacks struggles were worse than gays.

And? The fact that blacks had it worse is irrelevant. Stop trying to play the oppression Olympics.

 

[travisbickle]

And? During slavery both female and males where castrated and their gentiles where stored in pickle jars. Cats were sown into slaves bodies so they they could see how long it would take for the cat to claw its way out.

Stop trying to compare is all I'm saying. I never belittled anyone else's struggles.

I'm not comparing!! You are comparing!! And you did belittle gay struggle, I am only responding to what you have written.

You wrote, "only in some states can gay people not marry", that is the only thing you have written about gay people's rights/struggles/difficulties in America. I am telling you, and others, about the struggles gays in modern society have had. you didn't even respond to the fact that homosexuality was illegal in many state of the USA throughout the 20th century.

I am writing facts about why people don't like the term "you're a faggot" being used as an insult, because 60 years ago, you would be given electro-shock treatment for being a faggot, or in some cases chemical castration, by the government!!

 

[Londa]

Well, at least you edited your post to say "doesn't" so this makes sense again. Unfortunately he didn't mention blacks at all. YOU are trying to compare the black civil rights movement and say that blacks struggles were worse than gays.

And? The fact that blacks had it worse is irrelevant. Stop trying to play the oppression Olympics.

If you saw what Kint asked, you will see why I said that. But I guess you skim through it all to get to what I said so you can attack. Right? Go back to the drawing board.

The poster shares something horrible with what happened to someone that was gay, but I am wrong with sharing what happened to blacks? Looks to me that the person I replied to was playing oppression Olympics. You yourself have talked about how bad it is for gays, but I am the only one doing oppression Olympics?

Think before replying?

 

[Mumei]

* only in the most base understanding that full equal rights are being sought, of course.

Correct!

I think responses like 'And?' are not helping your cause.

It's essentially the same thing he said when I made the same point that marriage is not our first issue. He claimed that he already knew what I said - which are things that he wouldn't have known if he hadn't read gay history books or watched some rather obscure documentaries, which I rather doubt he's done given his professed disinterest - and that it didn't matter, because it wasn't as bad as X.

Stop trying to play the oppression Olympics.

The Native Americans already won gold, anyway.

 

[Kinitari]

If you saw what Kint asked, you will see why I said that. But I guess you skim through it all to get to what I said so you can attack. Right? Go back to the drawing board.

The poster shares something horrible with what happened to someone that was gay, but I am wrong with sharing what happened to blacks? Looks to me that the person I replied to was playing oppression Olympics. You yourself have talked about how bad it is for gays, but I am the only one doing oppression Olympics?

Think before replying?

But Londa, he wasn't trying to compare gays and blacks. All he wanted to do was to show some of the other sorts of struggles homosexuals have gone through throughout history. Alan Turing did a lot for his people, and they repayed him in kind. It's a sad story.

All the poster wanted to do was show that it wasn't just marriage and adoption and the occasional beatdown, a little while ago it was castration, electrocution and death. Nobody deserves that, no group deserves that.

 

[Gaborn]

If you saw what Kint asked, you will see why I said that. But I guess you skim through it all to get to what I said so you can attack. Right? Go back to the drawing board.

You weren't talking to Kinitari there, I was responding to the post you replied to.

The poster shares something horrible with what happened to someone that was gay, but I am wrong with sharing what happened to blacks? Looks to me that the person I replied to was playing oppression Olympics. You yourself have talked about how bad it is for gays, but I am the only one doing oppression Olympics?

Think before replying?

There is nothing wrong with doing this. There is something wrong with doing this after bitching about gay people comparing gay civil rights to black civil rights. It stinks of hypocrisy. This is not and should not be viewed as a contest between blacks and gays because it IS not one. There are parallels in our struggles but we've each faced unique horrors.

 

[Londa]

I'm not comparing!! You are comparing!! And you did belittle gay struggle, I am only responding to what you have written.

You wrote, "only in some states can gay people not marry", that is the only thing you have written about gay people's rights/struggles/difficulties in America. I am telling you, and others, about the struggles gays in modern society have had. you didn't even respond to the fact that homosexuality was illegal in many state of the USA throughout the 20th century.

I am writing facts about why people don't like the term "you're a faggot" being used as an insult, because 60 years ago, you would be given electro-shock treatment for being a faggot, or in some cases chemical castration, by the government!!

what what I written that you are responding to. I see nothing quoted and I didn't ask you a question. Please be more pacific. No I didn't belittle gay struggle. I only said what I have witnessed in person. And said over and over again that I know that gays have it bad, because of articles that are bought up. In this case, a straight man being called the f word to me isn't what should be upsetting. Why not focus on getting all the states to allow gay marriage instead of worrying about one basketball player?

Why do I need to respond to something that everyone knows already, what did you want me to say? Ok, they couldn't be gay illegally?

I'm not shocked that the government did something like that. They kill millions every year from war.

 

[Gaborn]

what what I written that you are responding to. I see nothing quoted and I didn't ask you a question. Please be more pacific. No I didn't belittle gay struggle. I only said what I have witnessed in person. And said over and over again that I know that gays have it bad, because of articles that are bought up. In this case, a straight man being called the f word to me isn't what should be upsetting. Why not focus on getting all the states to allow gay marriage instead of worrying about one basketball player?

Why do I need to respond to something that everyone knows already, what did you want me to say? Ok, they couldn't be gay illegally?

I'm not shocked that the government did something like that. They kill millions every year from war.

How do you know what Bennie Adam's sexual orientation is?

 

[Londa]

You weren't talking to Kinitari there, I was responding to the post you replied to.



There is nothing wrong with doing this. There is something wrong with doing this after bitching about gay people comparing gay civil rights to black civil rights. It stinks of hypocrisy. This is not and should not be viewed as a contest between blacks and gays because it IS not one. There are parallels in our struggles but we've each faced unique horrors.

Well, at least you edited your post to say "doesn't" so this makes sense again. Unfortunately he didn't mention blacks at all.

These two sentence look like you are talking about the same thing.

I'm off to more homework. I assume you will dig through the thread to find more comments of mines to exaggerate.

 

[Gaborn]

These two sentence look like you are talking about the same thing.

I'm still waiting for where you are getting Bennie Adam's sexual orientation from

Also, I made a passing reference to the fact that you edited a post because like most people I read your "does compare" post before you edited it and thought you were back tracking. However, your post to Travis made me go back and notice you edited late.

 

[Cloudy]

http://www.theroot.com/views/why-kobes-slur-wasnt-anti-gay

This article makes all the points Londa is trying to make

Armed with their well-oiled media machine, both groups quickly issued formal statements blasting Bryant, which were snapped up by major LGBT blogs whose writers and readers have now declared the pro-baller America's homophobe-in-chief.

Although Bryant's word choice is certainly unfortunate, equally worrisome is the near-instant racial -- and racist -- overtones now permeating this debate. At its core is the comparison of the word "faggot" with "nigger," a comparison that has become emblematic of the LGBT movement's unabashed co-option of the African-American struggle. In this case, reader comments on blog after blog repeatedly invoke the word "nigger" in their Kobe takedown as -- in the words of Joe.My.God reader "beeblmeyer" -- they "wonder how Mr. Bryant would feel if someone said, 'Fucking nigger.' "

The real wonder here is how folks could think there is anything to compare in the first place. Without a doubt, Bryant uttered the epithet in anger, but in a fit of homophobia? Not necessarily, at least until we know for certain whether referee Bennie Adams is gay.

We cannot necessarily say the same thing about Kobe's -- or perhaps anyone's -- use of "faggot." Yes, the word is loaded with offense and has been a centuries-long tool of homophobes. But unless we're certain Bryant expressly chose this word to specifically dis Adams' sexuality, this charge of homophobia doesn't hold up. Nor do the overwrought responses by GLAAD and HRC, who clearly have far more important enemies to battle than Kobe Bryant.

 

[Half and half]

This thread is a perfect example of how not to reach people. Instead of seeking to understand and adapt to the intended audience, there's a whole lot of of internet 1-upping.

This does not help the cause, it just further divides people. For those who truly want to make a difference, it'd be wise to reconsider your approach.

 

[Gaborn]

http://www.theroot.com/views/why-kobes-slur-wasnt-anti-gay

This article makes all the points Londa is trying to make

First comment to the article nailed it

Until there is a "right" way for a White person to use the word "n*gger" as an insult, there is no "right" way for a straight person to use the word "f*ggot" as an insult . . . Same goes for all other slurs. PERIOD! The historical disrespect, inequality, denial of human rights, violence and socially sanctioned abuse, while not identical in both instances, is vastly similar. In both cases, the objectionable behaviors against members of a disenfranchised class originate from the same lack of acceptance of God-given human differences and distrust of those perceived as different, thus making them lesser beings deserving of lesser rights . The offensive epithet harms more than just the individual at whom it is directed. The slur reflects a sweeping social attitude and, thereby, insults and dehumanizes a whole class of people who have done nothing to deserve it and who only ask to be respected and allowed to live their lives a full human beings made as they are by the Creator. Failure to recognize these parallels most likely comes from a lack of ability to see the world through the eyes of others and/or an excessive sense of self-importance that gives one special rights greater than those of other human beings

 

[blame space]

you guys, the ways that i feel..

they are causes. causes that i get really angry about if someone makes a convoluted exclamation about them.

 

[blame space]

hey Gaborn how about you stop comparing nigger to faggot

 

[Mumei]

http://www.theroot.com/views/why-kobes-slur-wasnt-anti-gay

This article makes all the points Londa is trying to make

The article doesn't actually make any points that haven't already been made (and disputed) in this topic.

I suppose it is a nice reference point for various arguments that have been made, though I find the loaded language like "LGBT lynch mob" to be a more than a bit over-the-top. It does have a link to Pam Spaulding's blog, though, which is always nice.

 

[vordhosbn]

First comment to the article nailed it

No.

 

[Gaborn]

hey Gaborn how about you stop comparing nigger to faggot

A gay person feels the same way about "faggot" that blacks feel about "nigger." Sorry that you don't like it but they're both tools that people have used against our communities. As Mumei quoted earlier

Would you ask me how I dare to compare the civil rights struggle with the struggle for lesbian and gay rights? I can compare them and I do compare them, because I know what it means to be called a 'nigger' and I know what it means to be called a 'faggot,' and I understand the differences in the marrow of my bones. And I can sum up that difference in one word: none.

 

[Kinitari]

http://www.theroot.com/views/why-kobes-slur-wasnt-anti-gay

This article makes all the points Londa is trying to make

I know that point, I understand that point, and it still washes over the issue. I'll re-quote one of my own rebuttles to said point

The use of the word Faggot cannot be divorced from it's negative association with homosexuals. I understand that some people use it in 'innocence' - but even with their intentions in the 'right place' (I say this in quotes, because it is still used as an insult) it brings up unpleasant feelings in homosexuals when they hear it. They remember being beat while having that word shouted at them, they remember being spit at, kicked out of their homes, ostracised and attacked even by politicians. Even if you say that people who use that word don't mean anything by it, if these people have empathy and understanding in their heart, they would try to avoid using that word in the future.

And I also compared it to using "nigger" - not as a direct slur, because in this instance there is a chance that faggot wasn't used a direct slur. But imagine nigger becoming a general insult (which I have actually observed) - would that sit right with black people? It wouldn't, and hasn't sat right with me.

First comment to the article nailed it

What this person said

 

[Mumei]

No.

Do elaborate on the correct way to call people a faggot.

And I also compared it to using "nigger" - not as a direct slur, because in this instance there is a chance that faggot wasn't used a direct slur. But imagine nigger becoming a general insult (which I have actually observed) - would that sit right with black people? It wouldn't, and hasn't sat right with me.

I was actually reading the wiki page for nigger because of this conversation, and there was an interesting paragraph:

In the United Kingdom and the Anglophone world, nigger denoted the dark-skinned (non-white) African and Asian (i.e., from India or nearby) peoples colonized into the British Empire, and "dark-skinned foreigners" — in general. In A Dictionary of Modern English Usage (1926), H. W. Fowler states that applying the word nigger to "others than full or partial negroes" is "felt as an insult by the person described, & betrays in the speaker, if not deliberate insolence, at least a very arrogant inhumanity"; this anti-racist linguistic prescription was deleted from the later editions of Fowler’s Dictionary.

I might be misreading it, but it at least sounds like at one time it could've been used as an insult in a rather similar fashion to what you describe. But I might be misreading that, as I said.

 

[Cloudy]

I'm still waiting for where you are getting Bennie Adam's sexual orientation from

I'm pretty sure he's not gay or Kobe wouldn't have been so flippant with the first apology.

The f-word is an extremely common insult among straight guys who are around Kobe's age. Why are people looking for some homophobic angle here?

 

[Infernodash]

First off, Kobe was wrong. Calling someone a faggot is insulting, disrespectful, and unnecessary. However, it can be said in and out of the context of sexuality, nigger is a direct attack meant to insult a race. It's like calling a woman a bitch, it's insulting her gender, because she is a woman. Nigger is insulting a person's color of skin. Faggot doesn't always have to be sexually based.

 

[Gaborn]

I'm pretty sure he's not gay or Kobe wouldn't have been so flippant with the first apology.

The f-word is an extremely common insult among straight guys who are around Kobe's age. Why are people looking for some homophobic angle here?

I'm not looking for a homophobic angle. I actually think that the odds are he's straight - simply because there are more straight people than gay people. The point of my asking the question is that I don't ASSUME he's straight - because no one has reported that he is. I'm not saying he's gay, I'm saying that it's irresponsible to assume that he HAS to be straight when we've seen no evidence. He probably is, but that's different than saying "a straight man calling another straight man a faggot" when we don't know Bennie Adam's sexual orientation beyond the assumptions we make.

Infernodash - How many women have you heard referred to as "faggots"?

 

[Kinitari]

I'm pretty sure he's not gay or Kobe wouldn't have been so flippant with the first apology.

The f-word is an extremely common insult among straight guys who are around Kobe's age. Why are people looking for some homophobic angle here?

Not many in this thread are. I actually haven't seen anyone even so much as imply as much in pages and pages. Who exactly do you mean by 'people'?

First off, Kobe was wrong. Calling someone a faggot is insulting, disrespectful, and unnecessary. However, it can be said in and out of the context of sexuality, nigger is a direct attack meant to insult a race. It's like calling a woman a bitch, it's insulting her gender, because she is a woman. Nigger is insulting a person's color of skin. Faggot doesn't always have to be sexually based.

If I started calling lazy non-black people "niggers" - would that take away from the racial undertones of the word at all? How far divorced from black stereotypes would I have to move? What if I called terrible cashiers niggers? The point that people are trying to bring up is, the association doesn't go away, it's still there, it still hurts hearing it. I hate bringing up nigger SO much, I want to use Kike, Wetback, Chink and the like more often - but when I do nobody gets upset, nobody repeats and argues the point, it's only when I use the word nigger.

 

[Mumei]

I'm pretty sure he's not gay or Kobe wouldn't have been so flippant with the first apology.

The f-word is an extremely common insult among straight guys who are around Kobe's age. Why are people looking for some homophobic angle here?

I should note that Kobe is 32. I don't know many 32 year olds for whom "faggot" is an extremely common insult.

And it is because the use of the word "faggot" as an insult is inherently homophobic:

Incidentally I think your post suggests the root of this matter. The larger problem is that individuals are taught at an early age that this form of language is acceptable. Using "faggot" under the connotation you describe, as one of frustration, is what I would consider normative language behavior for a certain set of speakers: American males. I'd say there's some truth to this, considering how young boys communicate with one another. Part of what they learn as speakers is that slurs have a functional importance, which is to express some particular emotion. Studies even show that swear words are as much as a reflexive behavior as the patellar reflex. They learn unconsciously that these words connote strong emotion, and suggest frustration, anger, etc.

But part of growing as an individual is understanding and being critical of your own behaviors. When we look at a word like "faggot" - we must consider not only the context of its use, but also its literal meaning. Well, its literal meaning is one that has shifted over years of this kind of behavior I'm talking about . The origins of faggot as a slur, are not entirely known (some linguists posit that it's related to the "fag" which indicates a younger term boy in British schools, but that does not explicate why "faggot" is not extensively used as a slur in the UK; incidentally the shifting of meaning of "gay" is also unknown). But as the word has been used, there's been a remarkable shift in connotative and denotative use. We know that it modern standard American English it means exclusively: slur for a male homosexual. There's little debating that - words shift in meaning as one of the many patterns and facets of language. We can also consider the larger context of 20th century social movements, and the more public face of homosexuals in the US in the last few decades. As social changes occur, so also do linguistic changes.

Therefore, there's really little credibility to these sorts of arguments. Speakers know what they are saying when they say faggot - they understand the literal meaning. They must surely know, that words are regulated not solely by their contexts. There has been a shift in the word "faggot" - which is the one we all understand it to be. Whether there's some greater shift, suggesting that "faggot" can denote something undesirable, well I would argue that reflects a greater marginalization of homosexuals via linguistic apparatus. Proponents of such views are being willfully ignorant. Frankly there's no evidence that would suggest that "faggot" is undergoing a change in meaning, rather, the case seems to be that it's becoming an increasingly powerful tool of hatred and repression.

Words don't evolve in a bubble. There are larger social and cultural contexts that determine meanings of words. The onus is on someone who would deny the connection between faggot as an insult to a homosexual and faggot as a more general slur to prove they are separate, IMO. There's a clear logical connection between the two. As an example, the word "wigger." Well, it's a portmanteau of "white" and "nigger." It didn't evolve into its use as derogatory term without some connection to its origins, namely, that being a nigger is a bad thing, and that being a white nigger is also a bad thing. One hundred years from now, hypothetically, sure, we could say that "faggot" eventually becomes a generalized insult that personifies some negative quality about a person. The same could be said of a word like "geek" which historically meant a crazy person, or fool. But that ignores the present context completely. The present context is that prevailing, normative attitudes construct homosexuality as something that is wrong or aberrant, and its effect on language is to sanction use of homosexual slurs in a general derogatory sense. The ideology is that homosexuality is wrong, and that people are condemned not for practicing it, but are condemned as implicit practioners through the use of faggot as an insult. We have to keep in mind faggot is always directed at someone - it's always meant as an insult. It's not entered into the modern lexicon as a general exclamation or interjection. To my knowledge people aren't saying "Oh, faggot, I forgot my keys in the house!" They are saying instead "I don't like you - You are a faggot."

And the ubiquitous use of faggot in adolescence (which, again, Kobe is not) is related to a particular form of gender policing, and the word choice of "faggot" or "fag" is really no coincidence:

'Masculinity' is defined very broadly. For instance, a sociologist spend 18 months going to a California high school and observing the ways in which boys called each other fags - what things made you a fag, essentially:

"I saw and heard boys imitate presumed faggots and hurl the fag epithet so frequently at one another that I came to call it a "fag discourse." I use the term fag and not gay, advisedly. Boys at River High repeatedly differentiated fags from gay men. For these boys gay men could still be masculine, whereas a fag could never be masculine. Thus the term "gay" functioned as a generic insult meaning "stupid" or "lame" whereas "fag" invoked a very specific gendered slur, directed at other boys. For these boys a fag was a failed, feminine man who, in all likelihood, was also gay. Boys participated in a fag discourse to ensure that others saw them as masculine by renouncing any fag-like behavior or same-sex desire. They did this by imitating fags and calling other boys fags. Boys imitated fags by lisping, mincing and pretending to sexually desire men, drawing laughs from male audiences who howled at these imitations.

They frantically lobbed the fag epithet at one another, in a sort of compulsive name calling ritual. In the context of River High (the pseudonym of the school where I conducted this research) being called a fag had as much to do with failing at tasks of masculinity as it did with sexual desire. More often than not these fag-like behaviors were those associated with femininity. Exhibiting stupidity, emotions, or incompetence, caring too much about clothing, touching another guy, or dancing were all things which could render a boy vulnerable to the fag epithet. In this sense what I call a fag discourse is not just about homophobia, it is about a particularly gendered homophobia as these renouncements of the fag are as much about repudiating femininity as they are about denying same-sex desire."​

http://www.insidehighered.com/views/2007/06/28/pascoe

 

[Cloudy]

I should note that Kobe is 32. I don't know many 32 year olds for whom "faggot" is an extremely common insult.

Then you don't know many 32 year olds who swear a lot

 

[blame space]

A gay person feels the same way about "faggot" that blacks feel about "nigger."

or else

 

[Infernodash]

Infernodash - How many women have you heard referred to as "faggots"?

I've never heard a woman be referred to as a faggot by a man, because men use much more misogynistic and sexist language when insulting women. Think about how common it is for women to call each others bitches. No one gets offended if it happens. In my classes and just in general, I've heard men insult each other as faggot/fag but not in the sense of attacking their sexuality. I think it would be more insulting if a woman referred to a man as such because then she is spitefully attacking his sexuality, where as a man saying it could just be spouting it off as just another insult, like when a woman calls another woman a bitch.

 

[Gaborn]

or else

Come on man, there are always outliers but my statement was correct for the vast majority of gay people.

Infernodash - My point was you're flatly wrong. "Faggot" is a term all about manliness and masculinity. and what some people view as being a "man" and "not a man." It's INHERENTLY a term attacking a person sexually despite your disclaimer.

 

[Jamesfrom818]

Anyone else watching Comedy Central right now? Chris Rock was just doing a bit on our word of the week.

 

[Mumei]

Then you don't know many 32 year olds who swear a lot

What sort of 30 year old men still go around acting like 13 year old boys?

 

[Cloudy]

Infernodash - How many women have you heard referred to as "faggots"?

I've heard women call other women dykes. Isn't that the same thing? I wonder if that would cause this much outrage if a female athlete said that. Wait...no one gives a shit about most women sports so interest groups couldn't beat up on a popular star to further their cause

 

[Gaborn]

I've heard women call other women dykes. Isn't that the same thing? I wonder if that would cause this much outrage if a female athlete said that. Wait...no one gives a shit about most women sports so interest groups can't beat up on a popular star to further their cause

I definitely think it would matter. But I asked about "faggot" as I said because he claimed that the term

Faggot doesn't always have to be sexually based.

Which is clearly wrong if it's male exclusive.

 

[JLG-]

Anyone else watching Comedy Central right now? Chris Rock was just doing a bit on our word of the week.

 

[Infernodash]

Not many in this thread are. I actually haven't seen anyone even so much as imply as much in pages and pages. Who exactly do you mean by 'people'?





If I started calling lazy non-black people "niggers" - would that take away from the racial undertones of the word at all? How far divorced from black stereotypes would I have to move? What if I called terrible cashiers niggers? The point that people are trying to bring up is, the association doesn't go away, it's still there, it still hurts hearing it. I hate bringing up nigger SO much, I want to use Kike, Wetback, Chink and the like more often - but when I do nobody gets upset, nobody repeats and argues the point, it's only when I use the word nigger.

But you've attributed more than just race to the word nigger in this instance, you've also attached the word lazy, which in a sense, you're defining nigger as someone who is lazy. The argument turns because you're giving into a stereotype that black people are lazy.

 

[numble]

I should note that Kobe is 32. I don't know many 32 year olds for whom "faggot" is an extremely common insult.

You should look at other NBA players and their speech. Most have not gone to college or didn't graduate. Kobe, maybe Grant Hill and Shane Battier are probably the ones that use slang the least in the NBA, among American born players.

I'm not saying it's right, just that it's empirically common. Even John Amaechi, a gay former NBA player, said that it's common:

Q: What was your first impression when you heard Bryant's remark?

A: I'm surprised that people are surprised. This is common language when I played. It was an everyday word that I heard.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/2011-04-13-johnamaechi_N.htm

 

[travisbickle]

what what I written that you are responding to. I see nothing quoted and I didn't ask you a question. Please be more pacific. No I didn't belittle gay struggle. I only said what I have witnessed in person.

Here is the quote I am responding to:

I will never get this.

Gay people are only prevented from getting married in states who vote against it. Not all states vote against this. Gays can get great paying jobs, they are heavy covered in the media, they are not seen as criminals where ever they go, they have never been enslaved in America, they have never been told to go to gay only stores and places, etc.

You said this without any sense of irony in a topic that is about one of the highest paid sports stars in the USA, Kobe Bryant who is a black man, and also contains an article another high profile sports star who hid his sexuality all through his playing career.

I can name a long list of black men in media, in sports, in high paid positions; can you name any gay men in media, sports, high paid positions.

And don't say it shouldn't matter if the CEO of IBM is gay or straight. I work in a Korean University and the number of students that are proud of the fact, and feel if they work hard they can play in the premier league(Park Ji Sung), or head the UN(Ban Ki-Moon). If the next President of USA is a gay man/woman it would be a great step forward in equal opportunities for homosexuals, and if a faggot's the US president it may stop kids using the term as an insult.

 

[Kinitari]

I've never heard a woman be referred to as a faggot by a man, because men use much more misogynistic and sexist language when insulting women. Think about how common it is for women to call each others bitches. No one gets offended if it happens. In my classes and just in general, I've heard men insult each other as faggot/fag but not in the sense of attacking their sexuality. I think it would be more insulting if a woman referred to a man as such because then she is spitefully attacking his sexuality, where as a man saying it could just be spouting it off as just another insult, like when a woman calls another woman a bitch.

So let me ask you straight up - do you think if a gay man is near, and one man calls another man a 'faggot' for whatever reason, and that gay man remembers being called a faggot and spit on, or beat, or yelled at by his father - is that gay man overreacting when his chest tightens, when he gets angry? When he gets sad or upset?

But you've attributed more than just race to the word nigger in this instance, you've also attached the word lazy, which in a sense, you're defining nigger as someone who is lazy. The argument turns because you're giving into a stereotype that black people are lazy.

Uhm... the same thing happens with the word faggot. When you call someone bad at sports a 'faggot' - you attribute the stereotype that gay people are bad at sports. When you do it with effeminate men, or emotional men, same thing.

 

[TacticalFox88]

24 pages? Really, people? Jesus Fucking Christ.

 

[dream]

I should note that Kobe is 32. I don't know many 32 year olds for whom "faggot" is an extremely common insult.

I'm around that age and, growing up in the 80s and 90s, it was a far more acceptable to call things gay and insult people by calling them fags than it is now. Sometimes habit just takes over.

 

[Londa]

Here is the quote I am responding to:




You said this without any sense of irony in a topic that is about one of the highest paid sports stars in the USA, Kobe Bryant who is a black man, and also contains an article another high profile sports star who hid his sexuality all through his playing career.

I can name a long list of black men in media, in sports, in high paid positions; can you name any gay men in media, sports, high paid positions.

And don't say it shouldn't matter if the CEO of IBM is gay or straight. I work in a Korean University and the number of students that are proud of the fact, and feel if they work hard they can play in the premier league(Park Ji Sung), or head the UN(Ban Ki-Moon). If the next President of USA is a gay man/woman it would be a great step forward in equal opportunities for homosexuals, and if a faggot's the US president it may stop kids using the term as an insult.

I only said what I have witnessed in person.

I only said what I have witnessed in person.

I only said what I have witnessed in person.

No where did I say that is how it is for every gay. Someone said that I see gays getting treated unfairly and I told them what I have seen personally, meaning before my eyes. Ok, I'm seriously done. Got to get the good grades.