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[numble]

I've said consistently Kobe should have either been fined 2 game checks or 1 game suspension. I would treat Shaq the same way.

He has a higher net worth than Kobe. He was fined the equivalent of 4 game checks for actually arguing with refs this season, after he was ejected, but that was still less than 40% of the Kobe fine, and he laughed it off because of how little it was: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53VtCoysusM

Under your scenario, he should just be fined less, even though he did more--you're interfering with the game by approaching refs after you've been told to be ejected, and you're actually threatening refs. He's made 42 million over the last 3 years, but his contract is structured to give him only 1 million this year.

 

[Dead Man]

He has a higher net worth than Kobe. He was fined the equivalent of 4 game checks for actually arguing with refs this season, after he was ejected, but that was still less than 40% of the Kobe fine, and he laughed it off because of how little it was: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53VtCoysusM

Under your scenario, he should just be fined less, even though he did more--you're interfering with the game by approaching refs after you've been told to be ejected, and you're actually threatening refs. He's made 42 million over the last 3 years, but his contract is structured to give him only 1 million this year.

Ambushing more people with your demands for fully rethought NBA fine system, I see.

 

[MIMIC]

Watching the Indiana-Chicago game.

Such foul language @_@ It's almost like....watching a basketball game.

 

[Dead Man]

Watching the Indiana-Chicago game.

Such foul language @_@ It's almost like....watching a basketball game.

Yeah, because all the people upset about Kobe's comments want and expect there to be no foul language at all, that sort of fucking shit has no place in sports.... wait.

 

[krypt0nian]

Yeah, because all the people upset about Kobe's comments want and expect there to be no foul language at all, that sort of fucking shit has no place in sports.... wait.

MIMIC is dumb. Long ass thread and he still doesn't get it.

 

[numble]

Ambushing more people with your demands for fully rethought NBA fine system, I see.

Of course. Why make a proposal for a system of fines without thinking of the consequences? Two of the players that would get into arguments the most with refs last season were Ron Artest and Rasheed Wallace, two players who also happened to take less than half their normal money that year to play for a contender (in fact Ron has said he's donating this year's salary to mental health charities), so it meant nothing for the league to take money out of their current salaries--but because the league can fine without considering player salary, they still have a way of keeping players in line.

 

[Gaborn]

Of course. Why make a proposal for a system of fines without thinking of the consequences? Two of the players that would get into arguments the most with refs last season were Ron Artest and Rasheed Wallace, two players who also happened to take less than half their normal money that year to play for a contender (in fact Ron has said he's donating this year's salary to mental health charities), so it meant nothing for the league to take money out of their current salaries--but because the league can fine without considering player salary, they still have a way of keeping players in line.

No system of fines can ever be perfect. I just think that on average making fines game-check based rather than a flat fine is less subjective and is on average fairer. As it is small fines aren't going to do anything for players like Kobe making $20 million a year. As you say it's not perfect for an aged superstar like Shaq at the tail end of his career but there IS no one system that works. I think game checks on average would be better than this though. Disagree? Fine.

 

[MIMIC]

MIMIC is dumb. Long ass thread and he still doesn't get it.

No, I get it. People who don't watch or play sports are surprised at the type of non-homophobic, foul language that is used.

 

[Dead Man]

No, I get it. People who don't watch or play sports are surprised at the type of non-homophobic, foul language that is used.

:lol

 

[numble]

No system of fines can ever be perfect. I just think that on average making fines game-check based rather than a flat fine is less subjective and is on average fairer. As it is small fines aren't going to do anything for players like Kobe making $20 million a year. As you say it's not perfect for an aged superstar like Shaq at the tail end of his career but there IS no one system that works. I think game checks on average would be better than this though. Disagree? Fine.

They already have a system for game check based fines--if you touch a ref, get in a fight, injure another player, fail a drug test, or get involved in a crime, you'll lose a game or more pay for the offense. If you want to take 2 games for a remark made on the bench, you'll need to rethink those punishments as well. Matt Barnes was recently suspended 1 game for pushing another player, how much should he be suspended under your system?

 

[ZephyrFate]

No, I get it. People who don't watch or play sports are surprised at the type of non-homophobic, foul language that is used.

So you've proven that you still haven't quite understood anything anyone has said in this topic.

 

[Mumei]

No, I get it. People who don't watch or play sports are surprised at the type of non-homophobic, foul language that is used.

I'm not surprised by homophobic (note the distinct lack of "non" before "homophobic; you can stop pretending that faggot's use as a generalized insult is not directly connected to its status as a slur towards gay men any time now) language, or by foul language in the sport. You don't have to be surprised by something to dislike it. And I'm not surprised by your attempt to equate "foul language" like, say, shit or fuck or what-have-you with faggot, essentially trying to place a homophobic slur in the same category as general insults. You tend to have a habit in gay topics of denying that the use of gay or fag as an insult is inherently bigoted, so this really isn't a change of pace for you.

 

[dehydratedbabies]

This story is boring.

A famous and extremely wealthy professional gamer became angry while playing a game and shouted "Fucking faggot!" at a referee. Said game was televised, as most games he plays are, so many people saw this occur. The NBA fined the player $100,000, either because they have rules of etiquette that this player broke, or because they wanted to appease groups like GLAAD and the FCC. The player, who makes $302,515 per regular season game, doesn't want to pay the fine.

If you think Kobe Bryant is an asshole for his actions then stop watching him play basketball on television and stop contributing to his wealth. If you actually care, that is. Otherwise, why are you talking about this?

Because of children? The children watching either had no idea what he mouthed, or they hear "fucking faggot", among many other slang insults, at school or in movies or on the streets on a regular basis. Kobe Bryant is, again, a wealthy professional gamer. If he is your child's hero, know that you child idolizes a man who gets paid massive amounts of money to play games, and contributes little to society other than entertainment to some basketball enthusiasts (he also likely gives some of his fortune to charity). And if you're worried about kids verbally bullying more homosexual kids because of Kobe Bryant's apparent approval, you should consider why we're allowing Kobe Bryant to parent our children.

Because of homosexuals? Kobe Bryant shouted "fucking faggot" in anger. Even if Kobe Bryant utterly hates homosexual humans, why do you care? Why does that offend you? Why are you giving anyone the power to hurt you by speaking a word? Faggot has multiple meanings, one of which is slang: homosexual. Consider the ridiculousness of being offended by the use of a word like faggot. "Fucking faggot" can mean "fucking bundle of sticks", or "fucking bundle of dicks", or "fucking cigarette". It can also mean "fucking homosexual". You've probably said motherfucker because of anger in the past, but I doubt that you were actually referring to a mother being fucked when you said it. Freedom of speech is the freedom to say what you want without censorship. Kobe Bryant wanted to say "fucking faggot", and so he did. The NBA has the right to fine and thus censor him because they run the league that he plays in. You have the right to like what he said or dislike what he said, and support him or not, because you are a free human. But Kobe Bryant isn't different from any other human on this planet, and he shouldn't be treated like he is. You don't know him, and will probably never meet him. He is as significant to you as an anonymous bigot in China.

Again, why do you care about this? The only actual matters behind this story, or rather the overall reaction to this story, are societal problems that have nothing to do with basketball or Kobe Bryant and everything to do with parenting and education. Let's talk about transforming public education in the United Sates, and about being better parents. Let's not talk about Kobe Bryant's temper, because it is a dull, ridiculous topic.

Meanwhile, the United States government is fucking the lower and middle class in their asses.

 

[Sai-kun]

Faggot has multiple meanings, one of which is slang: homosexual. Consider the ridiculousness of being offended by the use of a word like faggot. "Fucking faggot" can mean "fucking bundle of sticks", or "fucking bundle of dicks", or "fucking cigarette".

Oh PLEASE, dude. Fucking spare us.

 

[Dead Man]

This story is boring.

A famous and extremely wealthy professional gamer became angry while playing a game and shouted "Fucking faggot!" at a referee. Said game was televised, as most games he plays are, so many people saw this occur. The NBA fined the player $100,000, either because they have rules of etiquette that this player broke, or because they wanted to appease groups like GLAAD and the FCC. The player, who makes $302,515 per regular season game, doesn't want to pay the fine.

If you think Kobe Bryant is an asshole for his actions then stop watching him play basketball on television and stop contributing to his wealth. If you actually care, that is. Otherwise, why are you talking about this?

Because of children? The children watching either had no idea what he mouthed, or they hear "fucking faggot", among many other slang insults, at school or in movies or on the streets on a regular basis. Kobe Bryant is, again, a wealthy professional gamer. If he is your child's hero, know that you child idolizes a man who gets paid massive amounts of money to play games, and contributes little to society other than entertainment to some basketball enthusiasts (he also likely gives some of his fortune to charity). And if you're worried about kids verbally bullying more homosexual kids because of Kobe Bryant's apparent approval, you should consider why we're allowing Kobe Bryant to parent our children.

Because of homosexuals? Kobe Bryant shouted "fucking faggot" in anger. Even if Kobe Bryant utterly hates homosexual humans, why do you care? Why does that offend you? Why are you giving anyone the power to hurt you by speaking a word? Faggot has multiple meanings, one of which is slang: homosexual. Consider the ridiculousness of being offended by the use of a word like faggot. "Fucking faggot" can mean "fucking bundle of sticks", or "fucking bundle of dicks", or "fucking cigarette". It can also mean "fucking homosexual". You've probably said motherfucker because of anger in the past, but I doubt that you were actually referring to a mother being fucked when you said it. Freedom of speech is the freedom to say what you want without censorship. Kobe Bryant wanted to say "fucking faggot", and so he did. The NBA has the right to fine and thus censor him because they run the league that he plays in. You have the right to like what he said or dislike what he said, and support him or not, because you are a free human. But Kobe Bryant isn't different from any other human on this planet, and he shouldn't be treated like he is. You don't know him, and will probably never meet him. He is as significant to you as an anonymous bigot in China.

Again, why do you care about this? The only actual matters behind this story, or rather the overall reaction to this story, are societal problems that have nothing to do with basketball or Kobe Bryant and everything to do with parenting and education. Let's talk about transforming public education in the United Sates, and about being better parents. Let's not talk about Kobe Bryant's temper, because it is a dull, ridiculous topic.

Meanwhile, the United States government is fucking the lower and middle class in their asses.

Can I just say...

 

[Rorschach]

I was also gonna write a 600 word post about how I didn't care, but I stopped caring, about how much I didn't care, midway through.

 

[Gaborn]

They already have a system for game check based fines--if you touch a ref, get in a fight, injure another player, fail a drug test, or get involved in a crime, you'll lose a game or more pay for the offense. If you want to take 2 games for a remark made on the bench, you'll need to rethink those punishments as well. Matt Barnes was recently suspended 1 game for pushing another player, how much should he be suspended under your system?

I don't see the problem with the suspension under my system. Like I said, I think Kobe should be suspended one game or fined two games worth. Barnes action must have been fairly extreme (I haven't seen that incident in question) though since a little shoving isn't particularly egregious.

 

[Kinitari]

This story is boring.

A famous and extremely wealthy professional gamer became angry while playing a game and shouted "Fucking faggot!" at a referee. Said game was televised, as most games he plays are, so many people saw this occur. The NBA fined the player $100,000, either because they have rules of etiquette that this player broke, or because they wanted to appease groups like GLAAD and the FCC. The player, who makes $302,515 per regular season game, doesn't want to pay the fine.

If you think Kobe Bryant is an asshole for his actions then stop watching him play basketball on television and stop contributing to his wealth. If you actually care, that is. Otherwise, why are you talking about this?

Because of children? The children watching either had no idea what he mouthed, or they hear "fucking faggot", among many other slang insults, at school or in movies or on the streets on a regular basis. Kobe Bryant is, again, a wealthy professional gamer. If he is your child's hero, know that you child idolizes a man who gets paid massive amounts of money to play games, and contributes little to society other than entertainment to some basketball enthusiasts (he also likely gives some of his fortune to charity). And if you're worried about kids verbally bullying more homosexual kids because of Kobe Bryant's apparent approval, you should consider why we're allowing Kobe Bryant to parent our children.

Because of homosexuals? Kobe Bryant shouted "fucking faggot" in anger. Even if Kobe Bryant utterly hates homosexual humans, why do you care? Why does that offend you? Why are you giving anyone the power to hurt you by speaking a word? Faggot has multiple meanings, one of which is slang: homosexual. Consider the ridiculousness of being offended by the use of a word like faggot. "Fucking faggot" can mean "fucking bundle of sticks", or "fucking bundle of dicks", or "fucking cigarette". It can also mean "fucking homosexual". You've probably said motherfucker because of anger in the past, but I doubt that you were actually referring to a mother being fucked when you said it. Freedom of speech is the freedom to say what you want without censorship. Kobe Bryant wanted to say "fucking faggot", and so he did. The NBA has the right to fine and thus censor him because they run the league that he plays in. You have the right to like what he said or dislike what he said, and support him or not, because you are a free human. But Kobe Bryant isn't different from any other human on this planet, and he shouldn't be treated like he is. You don't know him, and will probably never meet him. He is as significant to you as an anonymous bigot in China.

Again, why do you care about this? The only actual matters behind this story, or rather the overall reaction to this story, are societal problems that have nothing to do with basketball or Kobe Bryant and everything to do with parenting and education. Let's talk about transforming public education in the United Sates, and about being better parents. Let's not talk about Kobe Bryant's temper, because it is a dull, ridiculous topic.

Meanwhile, the United States government is fucking the lower and middle class in their asses.

First and foremost, you act like our concern is a singular focus, something that cannot be on multiple topics at once. let me address this - I can care about a lot of things at once, and it really doesn't hurt or anything.

I will ask real quick if you've read this thread because you bring up a lot of topics that have been brought up and argued from here to high water - so I feel like I am repeating myself by replying to what you said, but I'll do it anyway. And stop saying things like "Who cares, this is boring, nobody cares" they are just incorrect statements. People care, I care - others in this thread care.

The focus isn't on Kobe in this particular thread. Some people are talking about the fine, some people are talking about his apologies and subsequent actions, but your general post doesn't seem to address them, so I am going to assume you are addressing posters like me.

Let's talk about the word Faggot. It is a slur aimed to insult homosexuals first and foremost in our current climate and continent. Like any other slur, it's intent is to dehumanize and insult not only a person, but a group of people. We can agree these are bad things. Your wording seems to imply that you think no one should be offended by words - but I would argue that this is silly. Look at how we are communicating right now, we are using words - through words we express ideas and thoughts and we give them power and substance. We take these words that we hear and read and we apply meaning and substance to them - some words carry deeper meaning to some, where they associate them with times and dates and experiences. We cannot just turn this on and off, it would be great if we could, but that's not how we work. So words like Faggot immediately resonate with homosexuals in the worst possible way. Things like "motherfucker" don't have that same effect, asshole, dick and the like are words without history - without substance and most likely without any deeper meaning for the person saying it or the person hearing it. To imply that faggot is the same as these general insults is being intellectually dishonest (the phrase of the day for me).

There's not much I can do for the plight of homosexuals in North America, I am not a politician, I don't have a lot of money, and I can't compel the masses through any sort of religious indoctrination. But I can give my support, I can talk to people, I can listen to people and I can do my best to... spread an idea, the idea that homosexuals are people like everyone else, that it is better to be kind than to be cruel. Is this such a terrible thing that I am doing? Am I so misguided or malicious?

 

[Dark Octave]

What Kobe said was horrible.

It wasn't meant towards gay men, but was still unacceptable.

The fact that this thread is as big as it is, also shows me that some people love blowing things out of proportion and nothing short of Kobe standing in front of a firing squad will make them happy.

Just a little perspective. This is the thread from when Kramer called his audience members "niggers" and a basket full of other delectable racial insults, on purpose, blatantly aimed directly at black people, with intentions to hurt them directly.

Read the first few comments and then skip to the last page and see how many pages there are compared to this one.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=129941

 

[numble]

I don't see the problem with the suspension under my system. Like I said, I think Kobe should be suspended one game or fined two games worth. Barnes action must have been fairly extreme (I haven't seen that incident in question) though since a little shoving isn't particularly egregious.

A remark made on the bench warrants a larger fine (and I'm just talking in terms of game checks) than fighting with a player or pushing a ref with your arm? And it should be equivalent to injuring another player with a flagrant foul? More than throwing the ball at the ref? For actually verbally abusing the refs and challenging them to a fight? If not, you'll have to define new punishments for these violations, because those punishments are now going under-punished in your system, even though the current system seems to have deterred these violators from being repeat offenders.

Here are all fines and suspensions since 1994, do you actually see a history of people constantly neglecting the rules and being repeat offenders because they are being underpunished from what you deem a currently "unfair" schedule of punishments?
http://www.eskimo.com/~pbender/fines.html

 

[Gaborn]

A remark made on the bench warrants a larger fine (and I'm just talking in terms of game checks) than fighting with a player or pushing a ref with your arm? And it should be equivalent to injuring another player with a flagrant foul? More than throwing the ball at the ref? For actually verbally abusing the refs and challenging them to a fight? If not, you'll have to define new punishments for these violations, because those punishments are now going under-punished in your system, even though the current system seems to have deterred these violators from being repeat offenders.

Here are all fines and suspensions since 1994, do you actually see a history of people constantly neglecting the rules and being repeat offenders because they are being underpunished from what you deem a currently "unfair" schedule of punishments?
http://www.eskimo.com/~pbender/fines.html

I'm not going to get into a debate as to what exact fine is appropriate for every situation. I think Kobe being fined 2 games or suspended for 1 would have been entirely appropriate yes, because of the serious nature of the comments and because of the harm that can cause both to the league's image and to the Laker's organization.

 

[Kinitari]

What Kobe said was horrible.

It wasn't meant towards gay men, but was still unacceptable.

The fact that this thread is as big as it is, also shows me that some people love blowing things out of proportion and nothing short of Kobe standing in front of a firing squad will make them happy.

Just a little perspective. This is the thread from when Kramer called his audience members "niggers" and a basket full of other delectable racial insults, on purpose, blatantly aimed directly at black people, with intentions to hurt them directly.

Read the first few comments and then skip to the last page and see how many pages there are compared to this one.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=129941

Bro I read that thread, and there aren't so many pages because pretty much everyone is in agreement. He shouldn't use that word as an insult, it's offensive. End of story - some people tried to say "He was trying to be edgy" and they got shut down. Consistently, every page or two, there are people coming to this thread and saying "Saying Faggot isn't so bad the way he said it, grow some thicker skin" - consistently! That's why this damn thing is so long.

 

[Puddles]

Apologizing as many times as Kobe did and then teaming up with GLAAD is such fucking overkill.

You apologize once, and the matter should be finished. This isn't even particularly serious, but people are acting like Kobe set a gay man on fire.

 

[Dead Man]

What Kobe said was horrible.

It wasn't meant towards gay men, but was still unacceptable.

The fact that this thread is as big as it is, also shows me that some people love blowing things out of proportion and nothing short of Kobe standing in front of a firing squad will make them happy.

Just a little perspective. This is the thread from when Kramer called his audience members "niggers" and a basket full of other delectable racial insults, on purpose, blatantly aimed directly at black people, with intentions to hurt them directly.

Read the first few comments and then skip to the last page and see how many pages there are compared to this one.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=129941

Wow, a pot calling a kettle black?

Apologizing as many times as Kobe did and then teaming up with GLAAD is such fucking overkill.

You apologize once, and the matter should be finished. This isn't even particularly serious, but people are acting like Kobe set a gay man on fire.

He did apologise once. His first statement was saying sorry people were offended. Not the same thing. I haven't seen any discussion of Kobe beyond Numbles insane demands for fully fleshed out penalty schemes for pages now. He apologised, people are cool with that, the discussion has moved on.

 

[numble]

I'm not going to get into a debate as to what exact fine is appropriate for every situation. I think Kobe being fined 2 games or suspended for 1 would have been entirely appropriate yes, because of the serious nature of the comments and because of the harm that can cause both to the league's image and to the Laker's organization.

Fighting and shoving refs is also bad to the image of the NBA. But punishments must follow a strict and proportionate schedule, or you're just doling out punishments and fines based on arbitrary feelings. If you take 2 games punishment for a remark made to oneself on the bench, you HAVE to make punishment for other violations much higher. And you have to make a determination that the current system of fines is broken to determine that, and nobody would actually say that--look at the history and compare the punishments in the past 10 years--punishments are more severe these days.

And the league is not in charge of what Kobe does to the Lakers organizartion, the Lakers can punish him if they want to.

 

[Satyamdas]

Let's talk about the word Faggot. It is a slur aimed to insult homosexuals first and foremost in our current climate and continent. Like any other slur, it's intent is to dehumanize and insult not only a person, but a group of people. We can agree these are bad things. Your wording seems to imply that you think no one should be offended by words - but I would argue that this is silly. Look at how we are communicating right now, we are using words - through words we express ideas and thoughts and we give them power and substance. We take these words that we hear and read and we apply meaning and substance to them - some words carry deeper meaning to some, where they associate them with times and dates and experiences. We cannot just turn this on and off, it would be great if we could, but that's not how we work. So words like Faggot immediately resonate with homosexuals in the worst possible way. Things like "motherfucker" don't have that same effect, asshole, dick and the like are words without history - without substance and most likely without any deeper meaning for the person saying it or the person hearing it. To imply that faggot is the same as these general insults is being intellectually dishonest (the phrase of the day for me).

To the bolded, while I would never expect anyone else to respond to something exactly the same way as me, I disagree with your assertion that it isn't possible for someone to ignore or "turn off" their offense to words. That IS how some of us work. You can call me a nigger to my face for 4 hours straight and I will continue to laugh at you the whole time. Why? Because I know that I am not a nigger and I refuse to be emotionally manipulated by a word. I will not give the desired response because I am not bothered by another person's ignorance or stupidity. I understand the terrible history of the word and I think it is an ugly word, but I will not give it power over me. (I'm black/spanish and I've been called nigger/spic/wetback before).

What I glean from your post is a tone of defeat, a kind of resignation that we will forever be powerless underneath these words, that they will permanently control us and that we must respond to their utterance every time in some pavlovian fashion, unable to rise above our emotional or gut level reactions to hearing them. I strongly disagree with this, even as I recognize that the amount of people who can do so is very small.

 

[Dead Man]

To the bolded, while I would never expect anyone else to respond to something exactly the same way as me, I disagree with your assertion that it isn't possible for someone to ignore or "turn off" their offense to words. That IS how some of us work. You can call me a nigger to my face for 4 hours straight and I will continue to laugh at you the whole time. Why? Because I know that I am not a nigger and I refuse to be emotionally manipulated by a word. I will not give the desired response because I am not bothered by another person's ignorance or stupidity. I understand the terrible history of the word and I think it is an ugly word, but I will not give it power over me. (I'm black/spanish and I've been called nigger/spic/wetback before).

What I glean from your post is a tone of defeat, a kind of resignation that we will forever be powerless underneath these words, that they will permanently control us and that we must respond to their utterance every time in some pavlovian fashion, unable to rise above our emotional or gut level reactions to hearing them. I strongly disagree with this, even as I recognize that the amount of people who can do so is very small.

I think it is more the societal acceptance of words like faggot that causes resignation. At least recently there is pretty much universal consensus that nigger and other racial words are not acceptable. This thread shows there is no such consensus for faggot or other sexual words.

Do I lose sleep over Kobe Bryant saying faggot? No, and I don't think too many people do. Do I worry about what people responses to the situation indicate about society? Yes, absolutely.

 

[mavs]

The fact that this thread is as big as it is, also shows me that some people love blowing things out of proportion and nothing short of Kobe standing in front of a firing squad will make them happy.

I'm pretty sure this thread is as big as it is because of GAFfers saying stupid stuff like "faggot doesn't mean anything against gays".

I for one will not allow people to say stupid things on my internet without responding, and I know for a fact that lots of people feel the same way.

 

[Puddles]

I'm pretty sure this thread is as big as it is because of GAFfers saying stupid stuff like "faggot doesn't mean anything against gays".

I don't think many people honestly believe that, but it seems like a lot of people are trying to make "faggot" into the new n-word.

It isn't on that level and never will be. It just isn't, guys. Sorry.

 

[Kinitari]

To the bolded, while I would never expect anyone else to respond to something exactly the same way as me, I disagree with your assertion that it isn't possible for someone to ignore or "turn off" their offense to words. That IS how some of us work. You can call me a nigger to my face for 4 hours straight and I will continue to laugh at you the whole time. Why? Because I know that I am not a nigger and I refuse to be emotionally manipulated by a word. I will not give the desired response because I am not bothered by another person's ignorance or stupidity. I understand the terrible history of the word and I think it is an ugly word, but I will not give it power over me. (I'm black/spanish and I've been called nigger/spic/wetback before).

What I glean from your post is a tone of defeat, a kind of resignation that we will forever be powerless underneath these words, that they will permanently control us and that we must respond to their utterance every time in some pavlovian fashion, unable to rise above our emotional or gut level reactions to hearing them. I strongly disagree with this, even as I recognize that the amount of people who can do so is very small.

I respect your position, and I understand exactly what you are trying to say. You wish people had power over words, had the ability to turn off offence like you can. But it doesn't happen, and it will never happen that way.

And maybe a tone of defeat is a good way of describing it, but I'd rather say I am confronting the reality of the situation rather than looking at an idealized impossibility. I believe we can make the word Faggot as taboo as nigger or wetback or kike if we try, I don't think we could ever make it so everyone or even the majority of people had the control over their emotional attachment to words as you do.

I don't think many people honestly believe that, but it seems like a lot of people are trying to make "faggot" into the new n-word.

It isn't on that level and never will be. It just isn't, guys. Sorry.

If I could ask, could you clarify? Who is trying to escalate it to that 'level'? What does it mean to be at 'that level'? How do the words differ? How are anyone's points, mine in particular, diminished because they are not 'equal' or whatever?

I think you fundamentally do not understand what I am trying to do by using words like Nigger, Kike, Wetback and Chink. Juxtaposition does not mean equality, it is a tool used for comparison.

 

[Mercury Fred]

I don't think many people honestly believe that, but it seems like a lot of people are trying to make "faggot" into the new n-word.

It isn't on that level and never will be. It just isn't, guys. Sorry.

Sorry, Puddles. It's on exactly the same level.

 

[krypt0nian]

I don't think many people honestly believe that, but it seems like a lot of people are trying to make "faggot" into the new n-word.

It isn't on that level and never will be. It just isn't, guys. Sorry.

Not your call. It already is.

 

[Koodo]

I don't think many people honestly believe that, but it seems like a lot of people are trying to make "faggot" into the new n-word.

It isn't on that level and never will be. It just isn't, guys. Sorry.

wow, you sound so proud.

 

[mavs]

I don't think many people honestly believe that, but it seems like a lot of people are trying to make "faggot" into the new n-word.

It isn't on that level and never will be. It just isn't, guys. Sorry.

If by "the new n-word" you mean that only really crazy and maybe dangerous people still say it, I think that's exactly what will happen. Lots of racial slurs are even less common today, and if I heard someone bust out one against say asians or mexicans I'm even more shocked, even though those words don't have the same history in the USA.

 

[Mercury Fred]

wow, you sound so proud.

Homophobes typically cherish their ignorance above all else. It makes them feel manly.

 

[Dead Man]

I don't think many people honestly believe that, but it seems like a lot of people are trying to make "faggot" into the new n-word.

It isn't on that level and never will be. It just isn't, guys. Sorry.

Paging Londa. Londa to the Comparison Evidence Desk, please. Londa. Paging Londa.

He was angry, shit happens when you're angry. People (in general) should stop being so sensitive to things. There are worse things happening in this world you know.

Being angry does not mean you lose control of what you say unless you are a pathetic person.

 

[Wazzim]

He was angry, shit happens when you're angry. People (in general) should stop being so sensitive to things. There are worse things happening in this world you know.

 

[scorcho]

Homophobes typically cherish their ignorance above all else. It makes them feel manly.

seriously dude, calling a specific poster a homophobe now?

 

[Gaborn]

He was angry, shit happens when you're angry. People (in general) should stop being so sensitive to things. There are worse things happening in this world you know.

I know I can't help but use slurs like that. Oh, wait, I can. Because I'm an adult.

 

[Tom Penny]

If Kobe was white this wouldn't even be an issue...

 

[Dead Man]

If Kobe was white this wouldn't even be an issue...

Humour?

 

[Gaborn]

If Kobe was white this wouldn't even be an issue...

Yes it would be. and should be. If it happened mid season I'm guessing Kobe would have been suspended. Can't have your super star suspended right before the playoffs!

 

[Mercury Fred]

If Kobe was white this wouldn't even be an issue...

...

 

[Half and half]

Can this forum do polls? I'm pretty curious now what % of people think what and I think the sample size here would be large enough to be at least somewhat informative.

edit:
I would recommend something like:
a) n worse than f
b) they're exactly the same
c) f worse than n
d) apples and oranges, can't compare them.

 

[scorcho]

If Kobe was white this wouldn't even be an issue...

perfectly sums up what this thread has devolved into. genius!

 

[Kinitari]

He was angry, shit happens when you're angry. People (in general) should stop being so sensitive to things. There are worse things happening in this world you know.

See what I mean? Every page, multiple times a page. Grow thicker skin. Stop being so sensitive. Why conform to the reality when I want to change the reality? I do not want this word, or any slurs being thrown around, I do not want it to be the norm. I am glad now that Kobe said it - because look at what it's leading to, more than just the Lakers co-operation with particular groups, it leads to discussion - and fucking important discussion I think.

 

[numble]

If Kobe was Kevin Garnett this wouldn't even be an issue...

Fixed. I don't know why they hold Kobe to a higher standard--Kobe was indicted for rape, but he gets this and also crap for doing an ad for Turkish Airlines. While KG is openly racist against Europeans, his largest sponsor is a Chinese company with Chinese government ties, and throwing slurs is what he's known for.

 

[maruchan]

If Kobe was white this wouldn't even be an issue...

true if it was steve Nash, or say kevin love.. they would be of gave them a pat on back.. and said its in the heat of the moment.

reason why ben rostlingebuger can rape two women, and and his actions ignored and never brought up..

its kobe=black=rapist forever, brings it up any chance they have..

but no black people are irrational , and loud its expected from them plus their is already of history of them being homophobic so its only "natural" that such comment would happen...

 

[davepoobond]

I know I can't help but use slurs like that. Oh, wait, I can. Because I'm an adult.

its called self-control. not being an adult. being an adult has no bearing on this situation. you're talking about being an adult when 99% of the stupid shit that happens in the world is made by adults.

give me a break.

 

[Wazzim]

See what I mean? Every page, multiple times a page. Grow thicker skin. Stop being so sensitive. Why conform to the reality when I want to change the reality? I do not want this word, or any slurs being thrown around, I do not want it to be the norm. I am glad now that Kobe said it - because look at what it's leading to, more than just the Lakers co-operation with particular groups, it leads to discussion - and fucking important discussion I think.

You can't stop some people from using slurs, people will always use them in one way or another.

I know I can't help but use slurs like that. Oh, wait, I can. Because I'm an adult.

Good for you.