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Kojima: Do you think of him differently after Metal Gear Solid 5 ? (NO SPOILERS)

Not much has changed for me, other than that he proved that he can make a great gameplay-driven game. I've never considered him to be a genius, but he brings something very unique to video games that I appreciate. He throws a lot of stuff at the wall and doesn't care if it sticks or not, and for every moment of brilliance, there's a moment where I roll my eyes and just thing "well, whatever..."

I still think that he is a terrible writer and storyteller, and the overall experience of a Metal Gear story largely hinges on whether or not you find his weirdness to be to a game's benefit or not. For MGS2 and MGS3, I thought that it was. For the other MGS games, especially 4 and V, I found it to be a detriment.

With MGSV, he made a great game that *could* have been one of my favorite games of all time, but a lot of his design decisions (whether they were creative choices or not) hold it back. Which is a shame, but not very surprising.
 
What made the Metal Gear Solid franchise unique was its crazy and original story. Everybody bought a Metal Gear game for its story

No, no they didn't. I didn't. I thought the story was always crap. I bought it for the gameplay. Take out the gameplay and I'd rather subject myself to some awful anime.
 

Griss

Member
MGS V changed my opinion of him significantly. Both as a writer/director and as a game designer.

Writer / Director:
Before I thought all of the strange story flourishes in his games were by design. Now I think he's just a hack who stumbled into accidental brilliance many times and who must have had help during MGS 3 to pace it as well as it was.

There's no defending what he's done with V, imo. No amount of extra time or money would solve the core problems with the premise, directing, or characters.

I'm actually glad he's gone from the series for this reason, which is about the harshest thing I can say.

Game Designer:
From the very first Metal Gear he has always had interesting game design ideas. Often these were obscured by the fact that he was more interested in telling a story.

But with V we can see all of his ideas finally mature and they are pretty spectacular. So he's a great game designer. At the same time, though, the amount of stuff he has borrowed from Western open-world games, is a bit weird.

Overall, though, after the dual combination of Peace Walker and MGS V my opinion of him is significantly reduced.

LOL @ not acknowledging 5 but acknowledging rising, which has a much much much worse story. I can't take gaf seriously sometimes.

Rising had a spectacular story that achieved everything it set out to do. (One of those things was to make you laugh.) It was perfectly paced, too. Rising, and the characters in it, will be remembered for a long time and are often still quoted here on GAF. MGS V had an appalling story that wasn't finished, wasn't engaging, had dull, boring characters, was shockingly poorly paced and ultimately pissed everyone off.
 

Chinner

Banned
He peaked about 10 years ago. The best chance he has now is to start a new game universe, at least that way he will not longer be tied to character, gameplay mechanics and fan expectations.
 

Betty

Banned
I still consider him one of the greatest game developers and my personal favourite dev in the industry, no one comes close.
 

Lernaean

Banned
I think exactly the same about him.
Creators have their ups and downs, but a good creator is always a good creator.
MGSV has its ups, as it has the best gameplay and mechanics in the series, by far, and it's downs, as its story isn't as good as the best of the series which is MGS3 imo, but it's not the worst either.
I put 300+ hrs on PS4 and i'm on my 40th hr on PC, and this game is phenomenal if you stop thinking what there could be in it, and you focus on what is in it. And what is in it is a damn great game.
 

Skilletor

Member
What made the Metal Gear Solid franchise unique was its crazy and original story. Everybody bought a Metal Gear game for its story

I would never buy a game for its story, and MGS is one of my favorite series.

MGS5 has amazing gameplay, as the rest of the games in the series has had, so my opinion hasn't changed. Looking forward to whatever he does next.
 

Emedan

Member
How anyone could look at mgs5 and draw the conclusion that Kojima has improved is beyond my understanding. MGS5 is a bag of shit, the gameplay part gets way too much credit when virtually everything else is worse then previous games. I for one need a bit more than stellar controls to consider a game good, most importantly for me is an engaging story - a game without a story is a very shallow thing and with how mgs5 is constructed it makes the gameplay uninteresting that way instead. It's not a great game, it's the most disappointing thing since the Phantom menace.. Screw Kojima he's an hack
 

O.DOGG

Member
I still think he is a genius, nothing has changed. I think the shortcomings of MGSV are to be blamed on Konami and not on Kojima.
 
Characterization is generally worse as well. And gameplay isn't as tense as before because you aren't forced to hide often enough, you can just run from conflict.

The pros and cons of going open world.

Now I can just circle around and decide the best entry point - Good
Can run away from danger with no one following - Bad
Have multiple options how to approach a mission - Good
Have to travel long distances to reach the infiltration point - Bad
 

Batzi

Banned
I think he is a genius and that he has raised the bar in the stealth genre. I loved the story in MGSV and I think the ending was REALLY REALLY good and explains a lot of things that occurred prior to that ending mission. Makes perfect sense I don't see him doing it any other way. That's the game he always wanted to do and he did it.

IMO, he is the best game designer in the industry, period.
 
How anyone could look at mgs5 and draw the conclusion that Kojima has improved is beyond my understanding. MGS5 is a bag of shit, the gameplay part gets way too much credit when virtually everything else is worse then previous games. I for one need a bit more than stellar controls to consider a game good, most importantly for me is an engaging story - a game without a story is a very shallow thing and with how mgs5 is constructed it makes the gameplay uninteresting that way instead. It's not a great game, it's the most disappointing thing since the Phantom menace.. Screw Kojima he's an hack

That is strong, but I kind of agree with you. I too need a strong story and good pacing to keep me interested. One of the reasons I am done with open worlds. Open world games seem to compromise both - a lot.

The only open world where it had a great story and great pacing was the original Mafia game.
 
Great designer, bad writer, bit of a perv, overrated in the context that he gets all the credit whilst the KojiPro team is barely mentioned.

Pretty much what I thought before. MGS3 remains the best of the series by a big margin.

Pretty much this. Also, he seems like the kind of guy who would be the exact opposite of the definition of humble. Kojima, does your name have to appear over 100 times in MGS5?
 

BriGuy

Member
My opinion of him is still mostly positive, but MGSV tarnished it a little bit. I just finished a replay of Snake Eater last night, and the difference in quality is staggering.
 

Outrun

Member
I think that it MGSV showed his evolution as a game designer from a gameplay perspective.

However, as a storyteller, Kojima is still Kojima.
 

K' Dash

Member
I'm trying to enjoy this game, I loved MGS123, but I'm having a hard time finding motivation to continue, I won't give up though.

Kojima earned my respect since the first MG.
 
MGS5, despite having great gameplay, is a COMPLETE mess. MGS1-3 are great, 4 is subpar, and 5 is all over the place. Dude wasn't never the genius people seem to think he is to me, just a dev with weird ideas that more often then not didn't pay off. That hasn't changed.
 
It's made me respect him even more. He could make a game in any genre and end up with an absolute beast of a masterpiece. He is a master. Think of what he did. He took a linear action game and made it into an airtight open world game with one of the best and most addictive gameplay loops I have ever experienced. Fuck the story, this man is a GAME DESIGNER. He is up there with Shigsy in the most influential department.

Whoever signs him up, it will be money well spent.
 

daveo42

Banned
Gameplay is amazing. The story itself is far too light and a lot of loose ends or connections are never made or wrapped up in real meaningful ways. Characters are under-utilized nor do many have any kind of character arcs and act more like window dressing. Actual plot points are broken up missions or side-ops that feel more like needless padding.

I still think Kojima can an does build really realistic and fun worlds to play in, but MGSV feels like a massive misstep in the story department, which is disappointing as the series has been known for some very deep, albeit convoluted, stories. There are glimpses of that in this game, but are mere appetizers when everyone was expecting a 7-course meal.
 

tariniel

Member
I never worshiped him like a lot of people seemed to, but overall I think MGSV was good.

The game really needs to be scored two different ways. Mechanically, the gameplay is top tier, it is ridiculously good and fun to play with lots of weapons to unlock and mess around with. As a Metal Gear game, story and character wise, I think it falls short of perfect, and is less than average compared to other Metal Gear games. It also suffers from pacing issues and a lot of the main ops are really just side ops to pad the game length. Some of the story missions are also not my cup of tea, the ones where you basically have to be rambo (looking at you, mission 45).

To me the padding of game length was the worst offender. I found the story to be fine, but it's just spread way too thin. If they took out the side ops labeled as main ops (and threw them into the side ops list), and condensed the story down to less than 20 hours, I think a lot of people would have slightly higher opinions of the game.

That said I don't really know how responsible Kojima is for the padding. I suspect it's partly due to being rushed by Konami, but who knows. I respect him as much as I ever did for the story and dedication to the series, and I'm not angry or anything, really.
 

Dunkley

Member
I think he was always overambitious with his creations, this only reinforces since by all means Metal Gear Solid V lacked scope in so many things due to Kojima wanting to pull off so much and getting way over his head with the project.

The story feels like a lackluster piece connected by the thinnest threads, it feels like he only wrote up ideas for what should happen in this game only to make sense of how it all connects later.
 
He seems like a guy who seems like he's at his best when has limits placed on him to be honest.

He's a terrible story teller, but he makes good fun engaging characters...till MGSV where he forgot to put good characters into the game.
 
Gameplay is amazing. The story itself is far too light and a lot of loose ends or connections are never made or wrapped up in real meaningful ways. Characters are under-utilized nor do many have any kind of character arcs and act more like window dressing. Actual plot points are broken up missions or side-ops that feel more like needless padding.

I wrapped it up last night and agree with this. It's too ambitious for its own good. Even if I want to blame Konami, Kojima had more than enough time and money to make something cohesive and still made something so sprawling that there are a thousand loose threads.

He's an amazing visionary who needs someone holding a tight leash. I'm really looking forward to what he does next, but I hope to God he can dial the scale back to something reasonable.
 
The A plot in MGSV is pretty lame, and I'd say the same for all the new characters introduced in it.

However...

Edit: Missed the "NO SPOILERS" text, so I'll edit this bit out for now.

Ultimately, I don't know what I think about MGS V's story. It's so conflicting, but I loved every minute of the 182 hours of that game I played. I'd say Fallout 4 or Just Cause 3 need to put up one hell of a fight for GOTY, cause MGS V might take it.

Kojima is one-of-a-kind. He can cause unrivaled outrage, as well as zealous adoration from his fanbase. MGS V doesn't change the mold, other than tweaking the gameplay into a form more convenient for modern sensibilities.
 
Not much has changed since 4. He's amazing when it comes to gameplay, innovation, concepts and ideas, and little details you'd never see in any other video game.

But give that guy a pen and some paper and hoo boy, that's where the praise stops for me....
 
I'm still a fan. I wish he had more time and money to fulfill his vision, and I wish he didn't take the MGS4 critique to heart and change the way MGS games were played, but in the end I'm still very much so a fan of the series and his.
 

Shinigami

Member
Or this bizarre phenomenon where people are saying they somehow don't like MGS3, like in the OP.
I don't get it either. Like, how is that possible?
mgs3-grope-2-o.gif
 

KDC720

Member
Not really, hes always been a terrific designer and director, and a pretty meh storyteller. 2 & 3 are the only good stories in the series imo, and 2 only gets a pass because of the post-modernist meta mind fuckery at the end, the games actual plot isn't great. Not saying the other games have bad stories, they are all very entertaining, I just wouldn't call them good.

Even with its faults, MGS V is still my frontrunner for GOTY at the moment. So Kojima hasn't lost his touch there.
 
My opinion of him got better after V, I liked the story and the gameplay was miles above any Third person game except the Souls series. Looking forward to what he does next.
 
Nobody can take away the fact that he is indeed talented and a creative genius - he is, however a hack that liberally and literally "borrows" themes and ideas from other sources and combines them to make his own thing.

Examples are:

1). Policenauts [Lethal Weapon, 2001: A Space Odyssey]
2). Snatcher [Blade Runner, The Terminator, Invasion Of The Body Snatchers]
3). Metal Gear [James Bond, 2001: A Space Odyssey, Dawn Of The Dead, The Great Escape]
4). Boktai [Dracula, Django and other various Spaghetti Westerns]
5). Z.O.E. [Any and all mecha anime]

It's not necessarily a bad thing, but it takes a notch or two off of his genius belt when you consider that most of his career so far involves taking already established themes and ideas and then simply adding a small change to them to make them 'different' in some way and aligning to his own story ideas and themes.

MGSV was a total and complete letdown to me. the "twist" [if you want to call it one] was inane and ruins any and all replayability for me. I tried to play some more side-ops the other day and just thinking about the whole thing made me lose complete interest in ever playing this game again
.

Kojima should have at least warned us that the game was not 100% complete but was going to be released anyway
.
 
No. I figured he forgot how to design and write after MGS4, and PW only supported it.

I was actually surprised V was as fun as it was. Certainly ended on a higher note than I feared he would have.
 
The same. Still pushing boundaries. Still a great creator.

MGSV was a victim of trying to do too much but that doesn't change my opinion of the man himself.
 
Nobody can take away the fact that he is indeed talented and a creative genius - he is, however a hack that liberally and literally "borrows" themes and ideas from other sources and combines them to make his own thing.

Examples are:

1). Policenauts [Lethal Weapon, 2001: A Space Odyssey]
2). Snatcher [Blade Runner, The Terminator, Invasion Of The Body Snatchers]
3). Metal Gear [James Bond, 2001: A Space Odyssey, Dawn Of The Dead, The Great Escape]
4). Boktai [Dracula, Django and other various Spaghetti Westerns]
5). Z.O.E. [Any and all mecha anime]

It's not necessarily a bad thing, but it takes a notch or two off of his genius belt when you consider that most of his career so far involves taking already established themes and ideas and then simply adding a small change to them to make them 'different' in some way and aligning to his own story ideas and themes.

MGSV was a total and complete letdown to me. the "twist" [if you want to call it one] was inane and ruins any and all replayability for me. I tried to play some more side-ops the other day and just thinking about the whole thing made me lose complete interest in ever playing this game again
.

Kojima should have at least warned us that the game was not 100% complete but was going to be released anyway
.
Tarantino does the exact same thing.
 
He is great.

The game sucks..

Pretty much. I wouldn't quite say MGS5 sucks but it's a huge disappointment. I loved 1-4 but the series went to shit after Peace Walker. 5 does some things right but a hell of a lot more wrong, including losing pretty much everything that made me love the series to begin with. What it has become I never would have picked up in the first place.
 
Gameplay wise, MGSV is great. I really enjoying playing the game, it's just that there is very little in terms of story progression. Sure, there are a ton of tapes to listen to, but it felt like a lot of those conversations should have been included in the main game as cutscenes. There should have been better pacing throughout the game when it came to the story. And Ocelot was so underused and useless in this game, such a waste of potential.

And that whole sequence with a one-sided conversation, then a music theme, then the conversation picking up again was cringe-worthy. I still can't believe that was left in like that, it felt so damn unfinished.
 
I think of him pretty much the same. It's more that I think about Konami in a negative light, and wish that he had been given enough time to fully see to the end whatever vision he was trying to bring to fruition. In that way, I guess thinking about Kojima is a little more tragic after MGSV.
 
I think anyone but the most ardent, probably delusional Kojima fans now knows he has no high-minded reasons for fan service. It's just what it is, fan service. He'd be better off calling it that than pretending he's an auteur and everyone is going to be ashamed of judging characters once they see what well-crafted narrative he has established around them.

Dude's a guy with a dick and he wants to listen to it occasionally. Pretending otherwise makes me assume he's super-repressed or just wants to lie about it until everyone forgets he did.
 

GodofWine

Member
Dude makes the most realistic "army super ranger" simulation, and sprinkles in pure wackiness here and there...same as always.

The story never made enough sense to be good, but the very high over arching themes are cool.

I play this one as the best spec ops mission simulator ever, and don't even bother trying to figure out the story, and I love it
 

eso76

Member
So, let's see I played through:

Metal Gear, Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake, Metal Gear Solid, Metal Gear Solid 2, Metal Gear Solid 3, Metal Gear Solid 4, Metal Gear Solid PW (never finished though), Metal Gear Solid : GZ, Metal Gear Solid V: TPP

Snatcher, SD Snatcher, Policenauts

Zone of the Enders, Zone of the Enders: The 2nd Runner

Castlevania: Lords of Shadow (executive producer)

Penguin Adventure (assistant director), D2 (thanks) (???), P.T.

So, uhm...
Even if i hated MGSV (which i didn't) i wouldn't let a single game change my opinion of him as a game director/designer, especially given the extenuating circumstances. And i'm not talking about his relationships with Konami or budget / time constraints, i'm talking about being asked to keep writing in stuff in the MGS timeline.

I'm still very interested in anything he's involved with.
 
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