DrunkShogun
Member
Kojima writing is either a hit or a miss and it was a miss. Story is actually better if u ignore the trailers that gave a different sense of plot focus. Still think kojima needs to stretch his legs out in a new area though.
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Kojima: Do you think of him differently after Metal Gear Solid 5 ? (NO SPOILERS)
- Thread starter Dr. Kaos
- Start date
Devilinthiscity
Member
My opinion of him hasn't changed. The gameplay in MGS V is the most fun I've ever had in any MGS game. That said, I'd have to agree with a lot of people who have said they were disappointed in the story. I found it lacking compared to previous entries.
TheSpaceBetween
Member
Well, I feel he's even now more narcissistic and egotistical that I had imagined. Did you know the game was directed by Hideo Kojima? The game clearly needed more time and money to realize it's potential.
MGSV is definitely a flawed game in many ways, I'm not sure which those flaws can be attributed to Kojima and which can be blamed on Konami.
Unfortunately I doubt Kojima will get to lead a $50M+ budget game any time soon. I think his career will mirror Shinji Mikami's post-Capcom career.
Unfortunately I doubt Kojima will get to lead a $50M+ budget game any time soon. I think his career will mirror Shinji Mikami's post-Capcom career.
immortal-joe
Member
Good God, words...out of my mouth.
Rockstar never tried to make their missions open, same applies for the vast majority of open-world gamesgames. They focus on world building.
Kojima applied his sandbox-gameplay philosophy across an open space, littered with concentrated towns / outposts and bases. It also has my favorite AI, ever.
brandonh83
Banned
Not really. Who knows how production went down on that game. I thought it was shitty, but I think when you factor in Kojima's departure, reports even way before about Konami meddling with production, and various other things... I mean I can't really point a finger at him.
I do believe that I may have still not loved the game due to its obvious focus on open world stealth and little plot, but who knows how it might have turned out if they didn't seemingly hijack the game, and this is just personal conjecture mind you, to turn it into a DLC machine.
These are also factors that have to do with reasons why I don't like the game, so there's that too. Still, it's one shoddy game and by my token doesn't erase the other brilliant games he's given me.
I do believe that I may have still not loved the game due to its obvious focus on open world stealth and little plot, but who knows how it might have turned out if they didn't seemingly hijack the game, and this is just personal conjecture mind you, to turn it into a DLC machine.
These are also factors that have to do with reasons why I don't like the game, so there's that too. Still, it's one shoddy game and by my token doesn't erase the other brilliant games he's given me.
GenericUser
Member
To use MGSV terms, I'd rank him as an S+ producer.
MGS had its ups (mgs1, 4, V) and downs (2, 4, PW), but overall I think its impressive how the series stayed so relevant throughout the years while maintaining an incredible high quality standard.
MGS had its ups (mgs1, 4, V) and downs (2, 4, PW), but overall I think its impressive how the series stayed so relevant throughout the years while maintaining an incredible high quality standard.
This is spot on. I'd give him a bit more credit for MGS 4, I think he at least tried some unique stuff in there, but more or less totally agree.
Rising's story is 100x better than MGS V's because it's super tounge in cheek, excessively cheesy and full of wacky, interesting characters. MGS V's story is more trying to be super serious but the occasionally not and full of weird and unexplained plot points that are paced terribly.
brandonh83
Banned
IAmRandom31
Banned
MGSV was the only MG that didn't hold my attention until the end. I really think going open world hurt the game in the end. Adding so many side crap to do and having Snake talk so little and the story sections not being as interesting. Just somehow didn't hold my attention. Maybe I will grab it again later during a game lull ( if that ever happens ) so i can just race through the story missions nonstop.
Didnt hurt my opinion of Kojima though.
Didnt hurt my opinion of Kojima though.
I think above all else, Kojima's is a visionary that pushes the medium beyond expected boundaries. Compare any MGS game to other games out at that time... They do things that other games just wouldn't try. None of them fit into any sort of established norms of their eras, even when taking things like open worlds and dual analog controls they're refined and polished in unique ways. I would expect that a lot of his skill is as a manager, paring down what must be included and pushing his team to deliver.
From a story perspective, it was Peacewalker that killed my respect for Kojima, and MGSV just solidified that. I love MGS1-4, and 3's story is probably one of my all time favorites. Ever since PW though, Kojima has proven that he doesn't care about his fiction with how he willingly retcons and retroactively cheapens events/characters in previous games. How could I respect a guy who doesn't even seem to respect his own work?
When it comes to gameplay, I'd say yeah, MGSV changed what I think of him in that department as well. No doubt, the gameplay is fun and works well despite the empty and boring open world, but I always figured that the tapes+short ops formula was a result of PO and PW being on handhelds. But then MGSV showed that that's just the direction Kojima wanted to take MGS, which I don't really appreciate. MGSV just kinda proved to me that the MGS I loved from 1-4 is dead, and that it has been for a while.
(Plus, the whole VA fiasco with Hayter really rubbed me the wrong way, since I can't help seeing it as purely Kojima's Hollywood boner getting the better of him. )
When it comes to gameplay, I'd say yeah, MGSV changed what I think of him in that department as well. No doubt, the gameplay is fun and works well despite the empty and boring open world, but I always figured that the tapes+short ops formula was a result of PO and PW being on handhelds. But then MGSV showed that that's just the direction Kojima wanted to take MGS, which I don't really appreciate. MGSV just kinda proved to me that the MGS I loved from 1-4 is dead, and that it has been for a while.
(Plus, the whole VA fiasco with Hayter really rubbed me the wrong way, since I can't help seeing it as purely Kojima's Hollywood boner getting the better of him. )
No, not really. I still love his work, I can see his stamp all over this game.
Maybe he was too ambitious with the game and kept aiming for a game that Konami was never going to provide the resources to reach, or maybe he was mislead and the rug was pulled out from under him, with Konami getting impatient and pulling support.
MGSV has amazing fundamentals and some great ideas that many are executed on very well. It just feels as if it needed a reasonable amount more time to finish off the story and general open world content.
Maybe he was too ambitious with the game and kept aiming for a game that Konami was never going to provide the resources to reach, or maybe he was mislead and the rug was pulled out from under him, with Konami getting impatient and pulling support.
MGSV has amazing fundamentals and some great ideas that many are executed on very well. It just feels as if it needed a reasonable amount more time to finish off the story and general open world content.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
I think he's letting outside factors influence him too much. He took a few too many pointers from what Ubisoft was doing, and turned MGSV into a complete turd with what he learned.
longdi
Banned
I agree. It is open world, but with the same insane level of details found in a metal gear game. Even more impressive when u remember this is done on same ps3 base platform.
MGS4 to MGS5 has the same ambitious leap as to MGS2 to MGS3. And you got to respect Kojipro for the balls to take such risk and hard work. This is what games development should be about.
I just hope konami will let him finish the saga with MGS6. Dun understand why they couldn't compromise a deal to release the game in 2 parts like what some big budget movies do
Led_Zeppelin
Member
Yeah, my opinion of Kojima has changed. Well rather I have solidify the idea that Kojima wasn't the reason why I loved MGS1 and 2 and up to some extend 3. MGS4 has a great amount of issues but I gave it a pass because I saw in it a lot of great moments, but most due to my investment in the series and characters rather that my care of what was happening in the game/story itself.
MGS V is perhaps my most beloved hated game ever or my most hated beloved game ever. I have never been so divided about what a game means to me. I hate the open world approach but love the freedom that you have to take on each mission. I love how enemies adapt to your tactics but hate that the game is so padded with inconsequential content (like almost all the Side Ops and some main missions) and even after being so padded the game still feels unfinished. I love the ideas behind the plot and overarching themes of it but completely hate its execution and presentation. I could go on and on.
I thought (like most people and some still do) that Kojima was the driving force behind the success of MGS/MGS2/MGS3 and accordingly I expected great things of MGS4/V/PW. Perhaps that was my mistake, thinking that Kojima WAS the reason why I loved so much the previous games.
MGS V is perhaps my most beloved hated game ever or my most hated beloved game ever. I have never been so divided about what a game means to me. I hate the open world approach but love the freedom that you have to take on each mission. I love how enemies adapt to your tactics but hate that the game is so padded with inconsequential content (like almost all the Side Ops and some main missions) and even after being so padded the game still feels unfinished. I love the ideas behind the plot and overarching themes of it but completely hate its execution and presentation. I could go on and on.
I thought (like most people and some still do) that Kojima was the driving force behind the success of MGS/MGS2/MGS3 and accordingly I expected great things of MGS4/V/PW. Perhaps that was my mistake, thinking that Kojima WAS the reason why I loved so much the previous games.
hemo memo
You can't die before your death
He's a fantastic game director. He love his fans. You'll never ever see a director to pull another Moby Dick Studio or a game company to approve it specially for an AAA game.
I respect the man and his passion to create the perfect game for the fans.
I'm at 53% and not finish with the game yet but no matter how awful the ending is I don't think it'll change my opinion of him.
I respect the man and his passion to create the perfect game for the fans.
I'm at 53% and not finish with the game yet but no matter how awful the ending is I don't think it'll change my opinion of him.
SplitYourInfinities
Member
He gained some points in my book. MGSV is such a step forward from 4 in every aspect (except in the writing which is equally bad in both games).
I am astonished by the hyperbolic words people are using to describe MGS5 (and, to a lesser degree, Kojima). Do you all really believe the 93% MC rating is an accident? A plot? That all those reviewers are not representative of mankind?
I'll be the first to drag Kojima through the mud for his stories, I felt the best one was MGS1's because the plot is kept relatively simple and hole-free.
However! Story and the actual gameplay are no equally important.
Gameplay is 90%, Story is 10%. So even if the Story didn't exist at all, the game would still be worth a 90% ranking. Feel free to give the story a terrible 1/10 or 2/10 rating, but recognize that the rest of the game is SO GOOD that it it remains an absolute must play.
Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's.
And also realize that Kojima, however flawed his writing may be, towers above you like a mountain towers above a squirrel when it comes to creativity, talent and vision. Don't make yourself look bad!
I'll be the first to drag Kojima through the mud for his stories, I felt the best one was MGS1's because the plot is kept relatively simple and hole-free.
However! Story and the actual gameplay are no equally important.
Gameplay is 90%, Story is 10%. So even if the Story didn't exist at all, the game would still be worth a 90% ranking. Feel free to give the story a terrible 1/10 or 2/10 rating, but recognize that the rest of the game is SO GOOD that it it remains an absolute must play.
Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's.
And also realize that Kojima, however flawed his writing may be, towers above you like a mountain towers above a squirrel when it comes to creativity, talent and vision. Don't make yourself look bad!
HoodWinked
Member
i wanna play mgo :/ but pc
GenericUser
Member
This sums up my feelings. If a game is REALLY fun to play, I mean REALLY , not CS GO or Minecraft really fun to play. I mean like super mario bros 1 when you where like 8 years old FUN TO PLAY. This is videogames.
Impressed by his embracing of western game design. I've always felt MGS games (before 4) felt very Japanesy. The arcade background of gaming was very present. Animations were very short and lacked smoothness. Same with the camera and the gameplay structure of the games.
With 4 we got less binary controls and camera movements. It felt like the game was inspired by current western design. It felt like a triple a smooth 3rd person game like Gears of War. With MGS V it's even more apparent. Open world, day/night, immersion, sand box approach, great shooting mechanics without having to hold 5 buttons down, etc.
You can really feel the design evolving throughout the years. Instead of sticking to a working formula (Gears, Uncharted, Call of Duty, Elder's Scrolls, insert western developer). Taking risks and alienating a portion of your fans is what makes a designer great. He basically removed the heavy focus on cut-scenes the games were famous for. Possibly because of the criticism MGS 4 got. I think that itself is pretty amazing. He proves he's not a salary man. He's a designer.
With 4 we got less binary controls and camera movements. It felt like the game was inspired by current western design. It felt like a triple a smooth 3rd person game like Gears of War. With MGS V it's even more apparent. Open world, day/night, immersion, sand box approach, great shooting mechanics without having to hold 5 buttons down, etc.
You can really feel the design evolving throughout the years. Instead of sticking to a working formula (Gears, Uncharted, Call of Duty, Elder's Scrolls, insert western developer). Taking risks and alienating a portion of your fans is what makes a designer great. He basically removed the heavy focus on cut-scenes the games were famous for. Possibly because of the criticism MGS 4 got. I think that itself is pretty amazing. He proves he's not a salary man. He's a designer.
Robot Pants
Member
After 4 i already kinda gave up on him. Didnt really care about 5 until it was right aroubd the corner and the trailers got me a little hyped. Bought into it just to be extremely extremely let down.
So now hes dead to me
So now hes dead to me
Inferno313
Banned
He's not dead. I imagine Sony or Microsoft or some other big publisher will snatch him up as soon as his Konami contract is up.
Pretty much.
Maybe in a game where story isn't so important, but in MGS it's ALWAYS been huge. How much time do they take out of MGS 1, 2, 3, and 4 to explain to you their plot? Even if this is a less cutscene heavy game it's still the cap on a legacy of plot heavy games. Its gameplay cannot be divorced from the plot that accompanies it.
Speak for yourself. You don't know how well I write in a narrative sense.And also realize that Kojima, however flawed his writing may be, towers above you like a mountain towers above a squirrel when it comes to creativity, talent and vision. Don't make yourself look bad!
eso76
Member
I don't value reviewers' opinion above that of any gaffer or my own, and there's no reason why anyone here should.
Reviewers aren't more 'prepared' than your average gaffer.
Having said that, yes, the hyperbole surrounding MGSV is absolutely astonishing.
At the VERY LEAST Kojima games have lots of personality. In a world where game designers don't even exist anymore and most games are "generated" by focus groups and market analysts, people like Kojima are incredibly valuable.
You're right about that but I think MGSV's plot was pretty well written. The twist was awesome and I did't see it coming which is great unlike MGS4 which was spoiled for me and even then it was predictable regardless of the spoilers. MGSV's story is far better than MGS4 and the gameplay in V is far better than anything I have played in the series or in games in general. I have never put so many hours in a game as I have with V.
Sora the Cat
Member
Well MGSV is my goty, Kojima still is my favourite game designer in the industry and this game made me more confident in that feeling.
If only Konami wouldn't pull this bullshit with the FOB thing.
If only Konami wouldn't pull this bullshit with the FOB thing.
Unknown One
Member
My thoughts on Kojima changed after MGS4. I expected MGSV to turn into what I didn't want. My expectations were met.
The Silver
Member
Kojima needs someone else to keep his ass in line when it comes to story stuff.
He needs a Vince McMahon to filter his Vince Russo
He needs a Vince McMahon to filter his Vince Russo
Dick Justice
Banned
Hack, wannabe Hollywood writer.
Godlike game designer.
Dude should stick to his strengths.
Godlike game designer.
Dude should stick to his strengths.
Kojima's writing can obscure just how good of a game designer he has been. Dude knows how to create compelling gaming scenarios. One of the best things about the MGS (numbered) series is that each game is distinct from the others, and while MGSV may have taken that ethos too far for some fans' tastes, personally I am exceedingly pleased. It's an extraordinary game. I have been very critical of GTAV for its missions being too scripted and not making use of the sandbox environment. MGSV is the antithesis of that.
SomedayTheFire
Member
He's a hack. F2P stuff was his idea as its all in Peace Walker.
I can understand people liking the plot twist my disagreement is people who don't like it justifying it by pretending Metal Gear Solid was always about the gameplay. To pretend, in a game like this, following a legacy that saw equal important to gameplay and plot, is more about gameplay and the plot has no importance or bearing on the overall quality whatsoever disingenuous and does a disservice to the entire franchise.
But in terms of the plot I like elements of it. I liked Skullface's motivations, that importance on language, and I really enjoyed Code Talker more than I thought I would. Those were probably some of the few things I enjoyed though. I really disliked how Skullface was really underused, that whole silent protagonist thing also bothered me since it gave the game a completely different feel than previous ones, the real lack of a central conflict (especially considering what you learn about Cipher later on) and that there were so many loose threads and unresolved issues. Sure you can blame it on Konami that everything isn't in there but the fact of the matter is when there became a hard Deadline Kojima should have focused on just the important bits and the conclusion.
As the game is...it doesn't feel like he concentrated on getting a good final send off or conclusion or what he felt was sufficient for the ending and plot wasn't enough for me. So eh. I think he's a good conceptual guy and can direct a good game, he just needs a good foil or counter to reign him in and keep him guided and centered.
NoctisVsStar
Member
Despite being delusional fanboy how can you possibly say that with a straight face that "the plot is well written" and the infamous twist is super obvious to several key hints in the game. The gameplay is the best in the whole saga and it's extremely fun to play agreed.. But you hypnotized yourself on some Ocelot BS.
Hell the trailers gave a better story smh And we haven't even talked about how he literally spoils the entire game in trailers.
dugdug
Banned
A little.
I'll always love him for bringing us Snatcher and the Metal Gear franchise. I'll just have to pretend MGSV never happened.
Between the treatment of the story, the entire character of Quiet, the microtransactions, FOB bullshit, I think MGSV is a pretty awful package when all is said and done. Does this game's existence nullify his previous work? Absolutely not. But it does suck that he made this game, in my opinion.
I'll always love him for bringing us Snatcher and the Metal Gear franchise. I'll just have to pretend MGSV never happened.
Between the treatment of the story, the entire character of Quiet, the microtransactions, FOB bullshit, I think MGSV is a pretty awful package when all is said and done. Does this game's existence nullify his previous work? Absolutely not. But it does suck that he made this game, in my opinion.