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[Wrekt]

I wasn't aware how much difference that was. Is it a personal preference between the two for most people or is it a clear cut DoTA2 will be superior?

I got into the DotA2 beta and while I didn't spend much time with it, I hated it. Your champs' movement seems really herky-jerky compared to LoL. The in-game store was an abomination. And the biggest offender was that the champ skills just seemed shitty. You don't have as much mana to play with and putting skill points into passives just isn't any fun.

It has admittedly been a few months since I tried it, so I may give it another shot this weekend to see if they cleaned up the shop and animations. If it went live as is though, I wouldn't switch from LoL.

 

[Ferrio]

You don't have as much mana to play with.

That's one of the things that makes Dota a more difficult game. You have to be *good* with your skills cause if you miss a single skill it's a big fuck up compared to LoL. Some people really like that, since it gives the game a higher learning curve. As for the passives, ya that's one of my bitches and one of the areas I think LoL did a lot better.

Getting close to enough IP for blitzcrank. Really liked him during the freeweekend.

Regularly played champions per role (order of most likely played by me):

Jungle:
Skarner
Riven
Shyvana

Solo Top:
Riven
Yorick

Mid:
Karthus (just picked up, love him)
Cass (though she's quickly falling outta favor)
Xerath

Support:
Leona
Sona

AD Range:
Vayne



Hrm, another ad range would be good.

 

[JesseZao]

I got into the DotA2 beta and while I didn't spend much time with it, I hated it. Your champs' movement seems really herky-jerky compared to LoL. The in-game store was an abomination. And the biggest offender was that the champ skills just seemed shitty. You don't have as much mana to play with and putting skill points into passives just isn't any fun.

It has admittedly been a few months since I tried it, so I may give it another shot this weekend to see if they cleaned up the shop and animations. If it went live as is though, I wouldn't switch from LoL.

I'm pretty much in that same camp. I don't play HoN because it's not as much fun as LoL and DoTA2 isn't anymore fun than HoN atm.

 

[Schmattakopf]

I got into the DotA2 beta and while I didn't spend much time with it, I hated it. Your champs' movement seems really herky-jerky compared to LoL. The in-game store was an abomination. And the biggest offender was that the champ skills just seemed shitty. You don't have as much mana to play with and putting skill points into passives just isn't any fun.

It has admittedly been a few months since I tried it, so I may give it another shot this weekend to see if they cleaned up the shop and animations. If it went live as is though, I wouldn't switch from LoL.

Dota 2 is similar to the original DotA, just like HoN—they even directly copy the interface, characters and items from the original.

And whereas they seem like updated versions, LoL seems like its own game that has broken out of just being a mod for WC3.

 

[Archie]

I got into the DotA2 beta and while I didn't spend much time with it, I hated it. Your champs' movement seems really herky-jerky compared to LoL. The in-game store was an abomination. And the biggest offender was that the champ skills just seemed shitty. You don't have as much mana to play with and putting skill points into passives just isn't any fun.

It has admittedly been a few months since I tried it, so I may give it another shot this weekend to see if they cleaned up the shop and animations. If it went live as is though, I wouldn't switch from LoL.

oh boy

 

[dave is ok]

DOTA2 is meant for DOTA/HON players, basically.

LoL is meant for anyone - even someone who hasn't played a MOBA/ARPG/whatever-they're-called before.

 

[AcridMeat]

I'm torn between filling out rune pages or saving for Maokai. He's such a boss.

 

[bjaelke]

I'm torn between filling out rune pages or saving for Maokai. He's such a boss.

I've been having the same "problem" for some time. Always ended up getting the champion.

 

[AcridMeat]

I've been having the same "problem" for some time. Always ended up getting the champion.

That's how I usually am, but right now I'm at 500IP haha. Then again, I got 500+ in my two games with Maokai...

I swear once you get rod of ages you can just do whatever the hell you want. Though he still eats mana quickly.

 

[y2dvd]

"Assuming everything continues to go well Jax changes should be going out with the next champion."


Not exactly. It's a pretty even match with a slight advantage to Xerath. You need to play aggressive against him during the first few levels. Otherwise he'll start to out poke you.

http://leagueofstats.com/champions/101

Where's my Ezreal buff?! I feel sad just playing him lately.

 

[bjaelke]

IGN: League of Legends: A 2012 Wish List
1) More Support Champions
2) A solution for the current bottom-lane carry/support metagame
3) Customizable item shopping lists
4) Competitive quality-of-life changes for the Dominion game mode
5) Better Tribunal rewards
6) The long-promised stealth overhaul
7) An awesome 100th champion

 

[Ikuu]

So he wants more Supports but doesn't want to play them like a Support?

 

[bjaelke]

I think it's related to the second item on the list.

 

[davidpdong]

the problem is, if you nerf sona/soraka to where they need gold to do well (ie karma), then nobody will play sona soraka and youll just send 2 bruisers bot and your ad carry top.

 

[Ferrio]

The only way you're going to solve the support/ad bot meta is if they make kills way more advantageous than long term CS.

 

[kai3345]

I've got 1400 IP to spend. Who's someoen that plays similarly to Ryze?

 

[Achtius]

The only way you're going to solve the support/ad bot meta is if they make kills way more advantageous than term CS.

Goose meta, best meta

 

[davidpdong]

But then that makes snowballing even worse which Riot doesn't seem to encourage TOO much. One death lvl 1-6 pretty much dictates a lane currently (or one crit to some ppl) if you boost the gold per kill then it will pretty much set the lane in stone at that point.

What do you like about ryze? His tankiness? his spamming of spells? his sustained damage rather than burst?

 

[dimb]

The only way you're going to solve the support/ad bot meta is if they make kills way more advantageous than term CS.

Alternatively: Stop letting characters exist who need no farm and can still massively contribute to teams.

 

[Blizzard]

Alternatively: Stop letting characters exist who need no farm and can still massively contribute to teams.

Someone just mentioned three posts ago that if that happened, no one would play supports presumably, and you could end up with two bruisers bottom and an AD carry top or something like that.

 

[davidpdong]

Goose meta, best meta

Goose meta is too dependent on leona for it to become a widespread meta. Lemongod has said they've tried tons of combos but only leona jarvan works. even then leona becomes the dedicated support and that doesn't solve the support play issue.

 

[vhfive]

more support champions plz

 

[dimb]

Someone just mentioned three posts ago that if that happened, no one would play supports presumably, and you could end up with two bruisers bottom and an AD carry top or something like that.

What proof is there of that though? Supports are still massively beneficial in the utility and healing they provide, and wouldn't need as much farm as an extra bruiser or carry. The problem I have with supports is that they are completely removed from the idea of last hitting and killing creeps, which is the basic foundation of the game. It is a very dull role to play because your job is to do nothing. As long as characters are built in ways that don't require stats to improve their abilities the game cannot change the support meta will never change.

 

[davidpdong]

What proof is there of that though? Supports are still massively beneficial in the utility and healing they provide, and wouldn't need as much farm as an extra bruiser or carry. The problem I have with supports is that they are completely removed from the idea of last hitting and killing creeps, which is the basic foundation of the game. It is a very dull role to play because your job is to do nothing. As long as characters are built in ways that don't require stats to improve their abilities the game cannot change the support meta will never change.

the proof is karma. She is what you're talking about. Incredible utility with items. Nobody plays her. The fact is each game has a finite amount of gold that must be spread among 5 champs, do you want to give it to the graves who can kill everyone? the xerath who can burst a team down to 20%? or karma who can heal pretty well and burst kinda well and has a speed boost?

-Edit: I agree with the frustration regarding supports, I just haven't seen a real elegant solution yet.

 

[Ferrio]

Alternatively: Stop letting characters exist who need no farm and can still massively contribute to teams.

If they did that they'd need to increase the effectiveness of support healing/shielding/whatever.

-Edit: I agree with the frustration regarding supports, I just haven't seen a real elegant solution yet.

An elegant solution would make kills more benefitial. Right now if you send two attackers bot, they can score a kill or two... but the sustain/cs of the support/ad will just keep up in terms of money. Dota handles this by punishing the person who dies. Not saying that's an idea that should be used, but they need something to reward people taking the more aggressive stance.

 

[Blizzard]

If they did that they'd need to increase the effectiveness of support healing/shielding/whatever.

And they have already been nerfing healers like Soraka, since they want to reduce sustain, correct?

An elegant solution would make kills more benefitial. Right now if you send two attackers bot, they can score a kill or two... but the sustain/cs of the support/ad will just keep up in terms of money. Dota handles this by punishing the person who dies. Not saying that's an idea that should be used, but they need something to reward people taking the more aggressive stance.

As already discussed, the main problem with that would seem to be that it would make snowballing even worse. Already certain champions can go crazy in early game, and getting even more gold from early kills seems like it will lead to more people having the whole team camp certain areas, getting first blood, people raging because early kills will have even more of a chance to cause a game to be lost, etc.

 

[Flayer]

I've got 1400 IP to spend. Who's someoen that plays similarly to Ryze?

Ryze is a unique caster. There's no other caster who scales with mana, no other caster who can build almost full on tank and retain their full effectiveness and no other caster who chains spells together in such a technical way.

Casseiopia might be an interesting choice for you though. She has a spammy style and generally builds pretty tanky because her range isn't great.

 

[Ferrio]

Ryze is a unique caster. There's no other caster who scales with mana, no other caster who can build almost full on tank and retain their full effectiveness and no other caster who chains spells together in such a technical way.

Casseiopia might be an interesting choice for you though. She has a spammy style and generally builds pretty tanky because her range isn't great.

I wouldn't recommend cass to him at all, that and she's 6300 ip.

 

[bjaelke]

I remember when roaming support Alistar was fotm. I think it's time to revise that plan and introduce other roaming support champs.

And they have already been nerfing healers like Soraka, since they want to reduce sustain, correct?

Yes. Her heals were too strong (ratio) and she couldn't do anything else. So they buffed her Starcall instead.

I wouldn't recommend cass to him at all, that and she's 6300 ip.

She has one of the highest skill caps in the game.

 

[Ferrio]

She has one of the highest skill caps in the game.

She also has to have a good team with her. She's not incredibly bursty, has no escape, and can be very squishy and her ult needs to be setup perfectly. So she needs a team coordinated to keep her safe and take advantage of setups with her ult. I find it hard to do well with her in randoms.

 

[dimb]

the proof is karma. She is what you're talking about. Incredible utility with items. Nobody plays her. The fact is each game has a finite amount of gold that must be spread among 5 champs, do you want to give it to the graves who can kill everyone? the xerath who can burst a team down to 20%? or karma who can heal pretty well and burst kinda well and has a speed boost?

Well nobody plays Karma because supports exist who don't have item scaling. As long as she requires items and a bunch of characters in the same role don't there's not really any reason to play her. If all supports acted in the same manner as her than her usage would be a completely different story.

 

[bjaelke]

That's also my experience. Her laning phase is straight forward, but during team fights she can be rather hard to position correctly.

 

[Haly]

Depending on what you get out of Ryze, Brand might be a good choice. Both are good at slinging spells and keeping people at bay whether through zoning or through stuns/snare.

No other caster builds quite like Ryze does, however.

 

[Blizzard]

Depending on what you get out of Ryze, Brand might be a good choice. Both are good at slinging spells and keeping people at bay whether through zoning or through stuns/snare.

No other caster builds quite like Ryze does, however.

I like Ryze because he doesn't have to worry about mana past a certain point. Mana always seems to run out for other people and I sorta like mashing buttons. Plus his red fireball makes a funny *bomp* sound.

I should try Ryze again. I guess I was experimenting with him for AP mid and stuff, maybe in ranked, but I must have been doing terrible and concluded that in general Ryze gets countered by various other champions (especially AD carries?).

 

[Haly]

He's a pretty decent anti-carry actually, for the specific reasons Flayer mentioned.

I've seen a Ryze outlane Yorick in Dominion, something I thought was impossible.

 

[VALKYRAY]

-Edit: I agree with the frustration regarding supports, I just haven't seen a real elegant solution yet.

few weeks ago sion plus talon can murder any support + carry bot. then talon got nerfed to shit....

 

[davidpdong]

If all they typical supports were removed I still don't think I would field Karma. (maybe if i had nid also and wanted to abuse the only heals in the game?)

If you nerf supports all the way down to where they also need to farm then we will just skip it. (back during AOE and tanky brusier meta it was hardly necessary to have a support.)

Where would I send a sona that needs gold to be effective? Top or mid? Sona would lose almost all 1v1s. Jungle? then shes a jungler. Bot? Her lane will lose when I send renekton/Jarvan bot.

but if you give supports too much AP incentive then they will break out of support and become full AP champs if the numbers are good enough (like sona was during release)

I think sona is very fun and active to play, in fact I think it's just soraka giving supports a bad name cause shes kind of derp lemme sit back and heal you.

 

[SouthernDragon]

Except Soraka is shit out of lane.

 

[Haly]

I don't think so, a Soraka can keep a team going for a long time if it devolves into a poke war.

I think having mana restore and a heal on a single champ is overdoing it.

 

[Ferrio]

 

[Haly]

I love dogfort.

 

[Inskipp]

I don't really see supports as a passive role, their job is not only to make your team feel comfortable, but to give the enemy a headache as well. In lane, they succeed this by harassing the enemy and trying to zone them out while giving you more space to farm in. Babysitting the carry involves a lot more than just idling in the back mashing the heal button (this applies to Soraka as well.)

So yeah I'm not seeing the whole passive thing, I think people just hate the fact that they're not allowed to take up farm and rely on their team for damage output.

 

[Haly]

I don't think you can disagree that the support/ad carry meta is one of the major reasons games tend to stagnate into farming fests, especially in non-high level games where you can't expect coordination and the best option is usually just to sit back and farm.

I don't think people are complaining about the support champs themselves, but the effect they have on the flow of the game.

 

[IsayFever]

Except Soraka is shit out of lane.

wrong

 

[Ferga]

wrong

+1

 

[bjaelke]

Her mr debuff is deadly during team fights, but she lacks hard CC. She'll die if she gets caught clearing wards. All other support champions have some kind of escape ability.

 

[Haly]

I think what's more annoying is her silence, and how she can really mess up your damage calculation with her heal + ult.

Basically in a team fight, you're going to focus one target with the absolute minimum amount of damage that will kill them so that you have firepower left for subsequent targets. The presence of Soraka fucks all of that up, being able to give any one target a big chunk of health at whim. You wind up using up more damage than necessary to ensure a kill, or putting yourself at risk by trying to take her out first.

 

[Ferga]

Her mr debuff is deadly during team fights, but she lacks hard CC. She'll die if she gets caught clearing wards. All other support champions have some kind of escape ability.

That's why i always take cv with my supports

Can't risk losing oracle like that

 

[Ferrio]

We need to rock more Leona/Jarvan bot lane. Bet a Leona/Blitz would be hilarious too.

 

[dimb]

We need to rock more Leona/Jarvan bot lane. Bet a Leona/Blitz would be hilarious too.

Might as well just run an Ali/Blitz lane.