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League of Legends |OT5| Premade Bot

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honestly it would be weird if she built something else.

Yeah but why play that kind of support if you are just going to not actually support. Basically you lose utility and gain an underpowered ap carry.

Havnt seen it work yet. I'm sure decent players can pull it off but I'm in bronze 2 and they fail every time.
 

Kard8p3

Member
Bought Lee Sin today..so fucking good. He kind of reminds me of Earth Spirit from DOTA with how crazy good his skills are. Friend told me he is the hardest hero in Leeg. Probably my favorite jungler/top lane so far.
 
I feel like before they touch Shyvana they need to sort out the defensive masteries. Them being so strong really helps Shyvana's top lane since she her one weakness, lack of health sustain, can easily be fixed with a dorans shield + defensive masteries.

As for Shyvana in general, I think the problem is she really doesn't take too much skill to play once you get your items. You just dive into the enemy team and press buttons. Part of this in my opinion is because your burnout does too much damage. Landing your e is often largely irrelevant. I would love to see Shyvana's e have ad scaling and do a decent chunk of damage, and her ult activation to do more damage too. Slightly lower the burnout damage. Lower the base values for her damages and increase the scaling on them. Remove her armor passive in human form.

Now you have to decide between doing tons of damage and being unkillable, whereas right now you just need to build one offensive item + sunfire/randuins/boots/spirit visage and you're godmode. When building damage, Shyvana should have to hit her skill shots: her ult, her e, her q. A good Shyvana that gets off a 4 man ult and follows up with an e and q that hit multiple members of the enemy team should be rewarded with good damage. Whereas one that misses most of the team and just runs around with w active should be punished.

I'm okay with Riven/Rengar being top tier picks in the top lane because they have relatively high skill caps, but Riot needs to make sure you have to use their skill set properly to take advantage of their strength. Riven's ad scaling shield is stupid on her. That same mechanic might actually balance Diana if her shield had good ap scaling. Bit of a tangent. I think maybe giving Riven some longer cooldowns would also be nice. There is hardly an opportunity to trade back with Riven before her skills are back off cd and she can kill you.

Bought Lee Sin today..so fucking good. He kind of reminds me of Earth Spirit from DOTA with how crazy good his skills are. Friend told me he is the hardest hero in Leeg. Probably my favorite jungler/top lane so far.

Yes. He's one of the funnest champions in the game, I'd say he's perfectly balanced. Can have a massive impact at all stages of the game if you're good, but if you're bad he just has some strong early game damages and ganks before he falls off a cliff. Teamfighting with Lee Sin is just so difficult. Especially at bronze/silver where everyone has no idea (myself included) about how we should be spacing and it becomes difficult to take advantage of his mobility considering the clusterfuck the fights become.
 
It's not as much as the defensive masteries being OP as it is the offensive masteries being pretty shitty beyond Dangerous Game unless you're an ADC and the utility tree being useful on Ryze and supports only.

Havoc is a shit mastery, has always been a shit mastery, and yet Riot insists in putting it into every single fucking season, with it being a 21 pointer now to boot, whoop dee doo, I can get 15 more damage if I hit you for 500.
 
kill secured
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I've secured enough kills with Nami to go from Silver 5 to Silver 1.

Edit: Can someone explain to me why I see supports take Relic Shield? The description reads that the passive kicks in if you slay the minion (unlikely as support). buying it so early with the aim of the final item seems dumb, to me.

I've been going with Ancient Coin as my first item of those gold generation ones yet everyone else appears to go Relic Shield.
 
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I've secured enough kills with Nami to go from Silver 5 to Silver 1.

Edit: Can someone explain to me why I see supports take Relic Shield? The description reads that the passive kicks in if you slay the minion (unlikely as support). buying it so early with the aim of the final item seems dumb, to me.

I've been going with Ancient Coin as my first item of those gold generation ones yet everyone else appears to go Relic Shield.

I also always go with Coin as it gives more gold overall and has the speed boost that saves so much lives.

Relic Shield is ood for its sustain but apart from Leona & Taric it shouldn't be even considered imo.
 

Rosenskjold

Member
I also always go with Coin as it gives more gold overall and has the speed boost that saves so much lives.

Relic Shield is ood for its sustain but apart from Leona & Taric it shouldn't be even considered imo.

I always get the shield for several reasons. You can get items faster by killing the siege minions and get full gold for it, while also giving full gold to the adc. You can heal your adc and when the item finishes, you can give a significant shield to someone in an engagement.
 
Some people man. We had a Tryndamere laning top against a Riven. His summoners are cleanse and ghost. I was already skeptical. Starts with cloth 5, nothing wrong with that. I'm pinging him that I'm coming to gank after I hit my level 3 at wolves.

*First blood*

Apparently when you dont have any offensive summoner spells and you know you have a gank coming, the best thing to do is go all in before the jungler can get there.

Was a good lesson for me in that I should've just ditched his lane and helped elsewhere instead. I questioned him about taking cleanse, he said it was to cleanse off ignite. Fair enough. Doesn't sound like the best summoner to take for an early all in. Especially against a Riven who started with a Dorans blade.

People just don't think at my elo :/
 

Nekofrog

Banned
Wow, that's more like it! Lost a game and lost 14 LP, won a game right after it and gained 27. If all goes well tomorrow, I'll be in my promos.
 

Pandaman

Everything is moe to me
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Edit: Can someone explain to me why I see supports take Relic Shield? The description reads that the passive kicks in if you slay the minion (unlikely as support). buying it so early with the aim of the final item seems dumb, to me.
If you have an item that gives your nearest ally the value of a minion+bonus gold, why would you let being a support stop you from CSing?
 

Sh1ner

Member
I always get the shield for several reasons. You can get items faster by killing the siege minions and get full gold for it, while also giving full gold to the adc. You can heal your adc and when the item finishes, you can give a significant shield to someone in an engagement.

On thresh I build relic shield for better sustain for ADC. On Nami I build the coin that turns into talisman of ascension as she has a heal already + I rather have movement on Nami.
 

Pandaman

Everything is moe to me
riven is pretty freelo.

red pot allin is still pretty strong unless they pucker up and play as scared as possible, but if they do you'll undoubtedly have the level advantage and still have the pot when its gank time.
 

DeadNames

Banned
Didn't you have an Aatrox av until like two days ago?

She's faceroll once you get her down, yes, but she's not easy. Unforgiving to play in lag, have to actually practice wall jumping and her combos, etc.

So what if I had an aatrox avatar? I never said he was hard. He's just my favorite champion.

Idk what you guys are talking about. Riven is one of the easiest champs IMO lol
 
So what if I had an aatrox avatar? I never said he was hard. He's just my favorite champion.

Idk what you guys are talking about. Riven is one of the easiest champs IMO lol
I just find it ironic that your favourite champion is way more faceroll than Riven.

And you've yet to give a single reason aside from blanket statements as to why Riven is supposed to be easy to you.
 
Riven is definitely not face roll. You have a stun, multiple dodges, a shield, a ranged execute.

There is a lot of potential in her kit to outplay people. Dodge their skill shots, bait them in bushes with your stun, tower dive and escape with the shield.

You could argue that due to how strong her numbers are it makes it rather face roll because you don't have to actually use her skills properly to be successful, and you might have a point, but that's not a problem with her kit as much as with her balance.

Face roll champions:

Garen
Shvyana
Master Yi
Annie
Ryze
Aatrox
Xin Zhao
 
Riven's balance is something we can question all day, but to say she's easy to play is pretty laughable.

Good Riven players make her look easy because of how her kit flows together when it's done right. But there is a lot to do right to be good with her. Animation cancelling, proper auto-attack weaving etc. etc.

I used to play her a lot and started picking her up again recently and I still suck with her. She's a champion that scales extremely well with player skill/practice.
 

Boken

Banned
Rivens skills sound simple, so I can see how somebody who has never played her might think she's easy to play, and it's true, her kit isn't exactly deep -

but the options provided by the different combinations of Q+abilities and the mechanical demand of animation cancelling all of them make the finesse requirement pretty high
 

ALN1031

Member
I think there might be a confusion here between easy to play and easy to master. One of the arguments I've heard about Riven being op right now is that you don't need to do her animation canceling w/e bs, you can just press your skills and your numbers will do the work.



EDIT: Oh and about Lee, while I agree he's probably one of the hardest champs to master, doing well with him mostly devolves to hitting one minion-blocked skillshot, which isn't too hard. Sick ward jump insec plays are by no means required to do well with him.
 
I think there might be a confusion here between easy to play and easy to master.

Maybe, but it's mainly to do with people's opinions and interpretations of that champion. People aren't just "confused" because they hold an opinion lol.

I can appreciate Lee Sin is an absolute god-tier skill capped champion, all things being equal. Riven, not so much for me.
 
I think there might be a confusion here between easy to play and easy to master. One of the arguments I've heard about Riven being op right now is that you don't need to do her animation canceling w/e bs, you can just press your skills and your numbers will do the work.
That only applies to lower levels, there's a reason only Riven specialists can actually do well with her in high level play, because they can handle people playing her without said techniques. I'm not commenting on her balance or saying she deserves to be good because she's hard or anything, but just mashing her skills takes away a lot of what makes Riven strong and alledgedly OP. If you just mash your skills people will pick shit like Olaf and completely destroy you, then come teamfights you can't burst the enemy squishies down fast enough before you die. Again, not discussing her balance, maybe when Riven is played to her full potential she's overbearing as fuck, maybe not, I don't know.

It's like saying playing an ADC is easy because you just point and click to auto attack without considering things like orb walking and positioning even though in lower levels those are not needed and you just do whatever the fuck you want.
 

Boken

Banned
I think there might be a confusion here between easy to play and easy to master. One of the arguments I've heard about Riven being op right now is that you don't need to do her animation canceling w/e bs, you can just press your skills and your numbers will do the work.



EDIT: Oh and about Lee, while I agree he's probably one of the hardest champs to master, doing well with him mostly devolves to hitting one minion-blocked skillshot, which isn't too hard. Sick ward jump insec plays are by no means required to do well with him.

i tried playing riven once. i button mashed and sucked
 

garath

Member
I have had more 6 item 40+ min games this pre-season than I had all of season 3. Comebacks aplenty. It's almost who has the best late game teamcomp that wins now unless one team is just totally derp.

Had a LONG ass game last night. Did ok as Kha'zix jungle. Had the game pretty much in the bag by minute 30 with an inhib down and baron. But had one or two pick offs and a couple lost teamfights due to their superior comp and voila. 50 min 6 item game they win.
I guess that's better than the first blood snowball win. Just sucks that it seems like the average game time is going up. I don't have that much time to play!!
 
Fun fact: Syndra has low as balls - hhhehehe - win rate, usually below 50%.

Because, like Riven although even more so in Syndra's case, she has the potential to be amazing in the right hands. Takes a lot of skill and practice to play properly, and when you realise what you can do with a champion that has no cast times and skills that can all be used while moving, you realise just how strong she can be.

Riven's win rate is around 50.94% (according to LolKing, grain of salt etc.) which is pretty normal. Her win rate only ever really goes higher than that in diamond and challenger, because the players there are better and make use of her kit more.

Holy fuck, Faker being Faker

http://youtu.be/XvchSpF5cRc

Case in point of Riven scaling with player skill. Holy shit.
 
I've tried to play Syndra so many times but it just isn't meant to be. It doesn't help every time I've tried her I appear to get put with idiot team-mates (jungler) who don't let me get some kills. She's bloody useless without Chalice.
 

Kenai

Member
Yeah but why play that kind of support if you are just going to not actually support. Basically you lose utility and gain an underpowered ap carry.

Havnt seen it work yet. I'm sure decent players can pull it off but I'm in bronze 2 and they fail every time.

It's more in the mindset of the person who tends to gravitate to those types of characters, the "I'm picking this character as support because I don't actually want to support" than the character itself. Same with Nidalee really but she's harder to play with a lane buddy. technically similar with Annie too but Annie's goal is the same whether she's support or mid (to catch as many as possible in a stun for her/the team to blow up). It's also why I pick support too, to protect my ADC's cs/laning phase (and take the CS myself if they don't). You just described yourself how that can easily sabotage the opposing ADCs mid/late game like that, which is why the more offensive supports like Annie and Fiddle don't really bother me as much as some in the thread, I guess. Taric and Leona and Nami and Sona and stuff can be just as scary (maybe even moreso when the laning phase is over since their utility get much better lategame).
 
1. That Faker video is awesome.

2. Got Elise on sale last night and got in a few games with her. I like her, but I felt lost a few times between how to handle teamfights and being inexperienced as a jungler. I want to get in some more games with her, though.
 
1. That Faker video is awesome.

2. Got Elise on sale last night and got in a few games with her. I like her, but I felt lost a few times between how to handle teamfights and being inexperienced as a jungler. I want to get in some more games with her, though.

I also bought elise. I have the same problem I have lee sin: I come to gank and have too many options and then I end up wasting half of them spamming them or I misclick and it just becomes embarrassing.
 
I also bought elise. I have the same problem I have lee sin: I come to gank and have too many options and then I end up wasting half of them spamming them or I misclick and it just becomes embarrassing.
The trick is actually not using any of those options at first lol

I see people opening ganks with Lee's Q and I just go nghhhhhhhh. Save your tools for when they actually try to run. Same goes for Elise, just walk in lane with Human form, land QW plus autos - hopefully with Red buff -, once they flash out or use their escapes then you consider using Cocoon and going spider form for the kill.
 

scy

Member
Riven is the definition of faceroll. She barely needs skill at all.

If you truly believe this, then I wager this is why you're sitting around waiting for her to be nerfed rather than learning how to deal with her.

I think there might be a confusion here between easy to play and easy to master. One of the arguments I've heard about Riven being op right now is that you don't need to do her animation canceling w/e bs, you can just press your skills and your numbers will do the work.

At the very least, she still needs to do auto-attack weaving. Just landing her skills isn't enough damage.
 

DeadNames

Banned
Did I say riven didn't have high outplay potential?

She has:

Damage
Mobility
No mana
A ranged execute
And an amazing shield dash.

She's not that difficult to pick up, but some people can do some next level shit. I've played her.
 

garath

Member
I also bought elise. I have the same problem I have lee sin: I come to gank and have too many options and then I end up wasting half of them spamming them or I misclick and it just becomes embarrassing.

1. That Faker video is awesome.

2. Got Elise on sale last night and got in a few games with her. I like her, but I felt lost a few times between how to handle teamfights and being inexperienced as a jungler. I want to get in some more games with her, though.

Elise is one of the higher skillcap champs. The cocoon is very potent but has a fairly short range and the hitbox isn't as forgiving as say Morgana's binding.

You also have to manage the different forms and keep track of cooldowns in both forms. Her rappel is also very clunky now. If you misclick slightly you can get unintended results. Like not jumping on someone because you clicked on the ground instead of an enemy or jumping on someone when you intended on just hanging, etc etc. And it has a weird delay going up and down. It used to be MUCH smoother before they nerfed the range.

Ganks can go a few different ways too. You generally want to lead off in human form to get the most damage out of both your Qs. Human Q scales off current health, spider off missing health. A great gank would be landing cocoon into Q while your W travels then switch to spider form and Q to gap close (plus damage) and make that human W land if it hasn't already (it jumps to your spider Q target), W for the attack speed and just beat on them as they run. Gap close with your rappel as needed to get one more Q off.

Landing the cocoon for an early midlane gank should almost always result in a kill.

I often see people gap close with rappel which is cool if the target doesn't have flash or some other escape. Land rappel and a quick Q then switch to human form to get the easy cocoon, Q/W combo. Then switch back to spider/Q for the kill if they aren't already dead.

I tend to try and save my rappel for an escape or finisher though.

Teamfights is usually initiating with cocoon then doing your combo to try and insta-kill whatever you cocooned then you can dive the backline with rappel or just work the edges picking off people as your teamcomp dictates. Elise can do some pretty solid damage to tanks with her two Qs and % health damage. If someone else initiates you can save the cocoon for a peel or a squishy target.
 
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